Thomas Braun

i've been dabbling around in both of those threads, actually, and have found some good info. But, I'm a little simple sometimes and a little hardheaded, so it takes a while for certain things to soak through. I noticed that information services for many things, like trade item values and mineral types, have been budding for some time, but that there doesn't appear to be any service around even with the intent of rating the safety of systems, which could be nice if you didn't wan't to use a probe, or wanted to quickly plot a long "safe" autopilot course. So maybe I'll scrap everything but the FTRR System and look into forming some kind of group to keep the System updated and functional.

Response time...Just going to use your initial questions to clarify some stuff so thanks. . . quote:Originally posted by Guybert: Umm ... correct me if I'm wrong but anyone can participate in trading activity right? If the Mutual Protection Union decides to blacklist a region, the dwellers within that region can do their own trading or hire mercenaries to do it for them. Trading will go on whether the MPU boycots a region or not. If a region is especially dangerous either don't go there or hire protection. A few traders choosing to ignore a region will not bring those within it to their knees. Yes. I'm not expecting to cut off all trade, but supposing a region is hostile to trade, I would HOPE that it wouldn't just be trade with the MPU. The idea is to provide members a non-aggresive way of protecting themselves. With a large enough membership, the effects of an embargo could at least be felt, I don't intend for them to bring a crashing halt to local economies, but I expect it to show the local government that maybe something is wrong with how they're running their business, and maybe they'll change it. quote:Originally posted by Guybert: In my opinion the only people suffering economically here will be the traders and commercials belonging to your union.A single region cut off from some trade will feel the effect more strongly than a large group of traders capable of trading anywhere else in the galaxy. quote:Originally posted by Guybert: A cunning trader or commercial will actually be able to turn dodgy regions to his/her advantage by establishing contacts, building relationships and charging a premium to do business there 'cos others will be too scared to.Of course there are always hot shot traders out there willing to do anything for a buck, but I imagine they will also die. . . A LOT. I suppose that doesn't matter too much because the SC isn't implimenting permanent death, but it will still probably be averse to die. The idea of the MPU is to provide the safest trade possible for its members in as many places as possible in the galaxy. quote:Originally posted by Guybert: At the end of the day independents are independent because they're in it for themselves. Exactly why the whole thing is as loose as possible. . . quote:Originally posted by Guybert: Just my thoughts ...Thanks for the thoughts. Would you maybe think the entire thing would be better off provided as an Information Service for tracking hostilities to Free Trade? I'm really interested in getting involved around here, and if this entire idea is pointed in the wrong direction I wish somebody would let me know.

Here it is. The refined version of the "Formulatory Statement" . . . ----- MUTUAL PROTECTION UNION: Statement of Formulation Mission Statement The general mission of the Mutual Protection Union (The Union, MPU) is to protect commercial commanders from the common dangers to Free Trade: raiders, mercenaries, and aggressive police forces. This will be accomplished through the economic power of loosely united Sects and individual commanders. There will be no need to hire mercenaries to protect from mercenaries, the defense will be the trade. If a region has no trade, how can it survive? Membership Sector Membership Definition of Sector: A Sector (Sect) is a group of at least five commercial commanders, with similar or unifying interests. Requirements for Membership: For a Sect to join the Union, it must provide a form including its desired name, an explanation of how it runs its affairs and its basic purpose. It must also provide a list of all members that includes name, race/caste, CC type, and CC name. Special Rights of Membership: A Union Sect has the right to one Core membership, which it may grant to any Sect member however it decides. The Sect must reconfirm this membership monthly, by resubmitting the name of the member it chooses to elect to the Core. It is not required that the same member be resubmitted. Individual Membership Definition of Individual: An individual is a commercial commander who does not wish to join with other commanders, but wishes the protection of the Union. Requirements for Membership: For an Individual to join the Union, it must provide its name, race/caste, CC type, and CC name. Core Membership Definition of Core Membership: A Core member ÔÇ£DirectorÔÇØ is appointed by its Sect to the leadership body of the Union, the Directorate. Special Rights / Responsibilities: See The Directorate. Universal Rights of Membership Access to the Central Database: See Central Database. Freedom: No member will be required to do anything for the Union that is not in some way useful to itself and to all members. Requesting Membership Any individual or Sect interested in joining the Union must send the appropriate information to the Director in Command (DIC). Central Database Location Interim location for the Central Database (CD) will be [webaddresshere]. The DIC has final authority on the location of the CD. The Free Trade Region Rating The CD will primarily house the Free Trade Region Rating (FTRR) system. See Free Trade Region Rating System. Member Services The Membership Roster: The CD will contain, available to all members, a listing of every member by status. Local Message Board: The CD will have a message board for all members to vent any complaints not applying specifically to Report Conditions (See Free Trade Region Rating System) and to post any other information. The Report Database All reports will be lodged here and can be viewed by any Core member. See Free Trade Region Rating System. Free Trade Region Rating System Purpose The Free Trade Region Rating (FTRR) system is the heart of the UnionÔÇÖs purpose. Every region has an FTRR set by the Directorate. The FTRR System will allow members easy access to data on the safety of trade within every region. FTRR Levels Free Trade Zone: A region that has no hostile activity and permits the trade of all items. Legal Trade Zone: A region with no hostile activity that does not permit the trade of illegal items. Alert Zone: A region that has some hostile activity. This activity will be defined as either police brutality or raider activity. The local stations are still open to trade although it is not advisable. Battle Zone: A region that is undergoing open warfare. Trade in these regions may have advantages and disadvantages. Embargo Zone: A region under embargo has committed major atrocities against free trade. No member may trade within these regions. To guarantee member loyalty, there will always be probes in these regions. The Report System Purpose: To guarantee the effectiveness and accuracy of the FTRR. Transmission of Reports: Sect members must send their reports to their Director while Individual members must send their reports to the DIC. Sect. Members Reports: Sect members will be required to fill out certain reports with their Director. All reports must include the date and time, the name of the reporter, and the location in System: Region format. Report situations are as follows: A. CC comes under attack: also include the race/caste of attacking ship, the circumstances and the outcome. B. Station confiscates goods: also include the race/caste and name of the station, the type and amount of goods confiscated, and the circumstances. C. Another commander attempts to confiscate goods: also include race/caste of commander, the type and amount of goods, the circumstances, and the outcome. If the outcome is attack, there need not be two reports. Individual Member Reports: Individuals are required to fill out reports in only the situation of attack. The report must contain the date and time, the name of the reporter, the location in System: Region format, the race/caste of the attacking ship, the circumstances, and the outcome. The Directorate Purpose The Directorate manages membership, the Report DB, the local message board, and the FTRR. Permission for Membership A simple majority of the Directorate is required to accept membership submission. Modifying the FTRR System A 2/3 majority of the Directorate is required to modify the operation of the FTRR System. Setting the FTRR A simple majority of the Directorate is required to set the FTRR for any region. This is where the Report System is necessary, without it, the Directorate could not make logical decisions on the FTRR. Removal of Members Only an individual or Sect believed to be violating the Report System or an Embargo may be removed from the Union. A simple majority of the Directorate is required to remove an individual from the Union. A ┬¥ majority of the Directorate is required to remove a Sect from the Union. Only a unanimous Directorate may remove a member from the Directorate. The Director in Command may only be removed by a unanimous vote of the Directorate and a 2/3 majority of the membership. Powers of the Director in Command The Veto: The DIC may override any decision of the Directorate. It then takes a unanimous vote of the Directorate to override the veto. The CD: The DIC sets the location and general format of the CD. Unifying Image: The DIC provides the image of unification for the Union. It provides the public figure of the Union. ----- It's kind of long and the formatting isn't too pretty since I wrote it up in Word first. Questions? Comments? Actually want to join?? Post here!!

I thought that might get your attention. . . I want to get a count on how many TRA and COM commanders there are out there. Since I am looking into corporation formation, I thought it would be nice to get a feel for how many TRA and COM are out there. So post here please. . . Thanx Gallion. . . wouldn't want the SC's wrath or anything. [ 02-04-2002, 14:39: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

Yeah. .. If we could detatch the saucer section and there were trees. . . it would be perfect. . .

Yeah, Akira. That's basically the idea. You've been around a LOT longer than I have so you probably have a better idea of how everything works. Really, an Information Service is what I had in mind, just wasn't really sure how to explain it. But, after reading around a little bit, it looks like a corporate fleet/guild could weild a lot more power and be much more effective on the larger scale. I imagine my original idea would kind of be like communism: It's neat in theory, but it doesn't work in real life (or in this case BCO). I don't know. . . I don't have any way of testing that theory out in BCM because 1 COM ship can in no way hamper trade with a Station. So, I have been working on a similar concept that I will (maybe) try to form into a fleet. I won't go into detail now, because I'll confuse myself. But I will post here later with that. . . If anyone is interested. . .

Yeah. . . But "artificial gravity" as you have mentioned is created by centrifugal forces, not real gravity. By spinng really fast, thigs are forced to stick to the outer wall of the device using that kind of "artificial gravity" There is also a ride like that. . . But, that is not to say that maybe in the future, there may be a way to do this, just not with conceived notions on REAL gravity. Inertial dampening has often been used to explain this. It was in 3001 (The book), and in MOO3 (The game). I'm suprised no one mentioned this. I wasn't looking for what kind of engine the ships use or even how they really move. I was looking for a decent excuse for near instant stops, insane turning, limited acceleration, etc. I didn't REALLY intend to start a physics debate. . .

I'm sorry. I think one of the big problems here now are confusing types of energy. Electrical, electromagnetic, magnetic, and gravatic (which isn't a word but it works with everything else) energy are all significantly different. Note that I do not thing energy is limited to these forms as it is not. Electrical energy is the sharing of electrons through some kind of matter, metals are best for this because of the way atoms bond in metals. Magnetic energy is having all of the atoms in a material aligned in the same direction. This can be accomplished with an electric coil. This causes a force with a positive and negative end (North and South) to form. Anything can become magnetized but once again, atomic structures in metals work the best. Electro-magnetic energy is sort of like both electrical and magnetic energy. It is the release of free subatomic particles (Radiation/Light/Radio/etc. And can often be easily be converted into forms that are magnetic or electric, such as in solar panels. Gravitational energy is kind of special. It is potential energy stored in all matter that happens to be released by pulling on other matter. It is not well understood, but there is no identification of any particle involved in gravity, except "Dark Matter" which is a rather radical theory that was in a Time Magaizine Issue on the end of the universe. Any way, this is a difficult argument to have because there is so little actually known about gravity. It must be measured by its effect, like time. Time is often believed to be a form of energy and it seems to be proven that gravity and time are some how related. Maybe by 3010, someone will have found a particle that "is" gravity (like the electron "is" electricity, the photon "is" light. . . Which once again leaves magnetism as a special force with no particle linked to it yet. Magnetism and Gravity are forces, not energy, even though I have been mistakenly using the terms interchangabley I don't want to go back and change them all. . . They are forces that are base on matter, instead of actual energy AS WE KNOW IT. When someone finds a magnetic particle or a gravatic particle (like in the Outer Limits Episode), I would have to say that gravity can not be "produced" and neither can magnetism. Fun to do with magnetism:: Wrap a coil of 16-guage wire around a steel pole. Then get yourself an AC-DC bridge with as little resistance as possible. Wire the bridge into a 120 volt socket and the coil. Keep the coil cooled and plug it in. I do not suggest oil or alcohol cooled. . . But now you have a pretty heavy duty electromagnet. Try it with 240 volt outlet too but make sure you have a fire extinguisher and a good circuit breaker or else you'll blow everything up to the nearest transformer. . .

Thanks for the constructive criticism / info/ suggestions. Maybe I will try to develop the Union more as a corporation. . . But as to people still not understanding the "Mutual Protection" part of "Mutual Protection Union," I will try to state it as clearly as possible: All star stations need supplies. Even the manual says you can blockade a station into submission. A union with enough members could potentially hamper trade with a region simply by not permitting the members to trade there. Of course, I suppose the mercs/raiders/hired Intercorp guys (haha) would just ignore the unarmed LT-15 parked across the jump gate issuing "EMBARGO" warnings and deliver goods to the station any way. And then they'd come back and tow the LT-15 in for the bounty. I probably need a lot of work on this. Thanks as I have said above. Going to have A LOT of free time this weekend. . .I think I'll try to develop my idea a bit clearer and post it here. . . [ 02-01-2002, 17:20: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

Well, All I get in response is Intercorp telling me I'm wrong about them, so sorry about that, but nobody has expressed any other interest whatsoever. Oh well . . .

I bet all the commanders here combined are MUCH bigger than him, lets all put a dollar to it and go kick his a$$!! Oops. I didn't read far enough, apparently that violates the agreement. Maybe we should try to sell a BC or something. . . [ 01-30-2002, 17:30: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

quote: The "infantry" concept itself is getting old, since a single armored/flying unit can take care of many, many soldiers. The only thing soldiers are good at is sneaking. What would have happened is the US would have sent thousands of soldiers to fight the Talibans instead of droppping an equivalent amount of bombs? More, much more deaths, and one ugly war we would probably still be fighting today. Whether or not infantry combat really sucks, especially when compared to the destructive capactiy of a single F-18 or tank, I think that a semi-quote from Starship Troopers is relavent: 'When they invent a bomb that can infiltrate an enemy base, take out all the bad guys, and save all the hostages, that's when their wont be an infantry' or something like that. That's the general idea anyway. There is no way to SAVE lives on the battlefield once those lives are on the battlefield without using human logical abilities, no bomb has IFF capabilities. So the infantry aren't going anywhere until the previously mentioned bomb is invented.

I want to form the "Mutual Protection Union" as a squadron for traders and commercialists. This leads to an important question: I don't need permission to form a squadron, RIGHT? Anyone feel free to respond to that. Then, I guess I should lay out the concept in logical order. ---------- Mutual Protection Union: Formulatory Statement First (1): The Union will not be in anyway an entity to assign or OFFER missions to traders and commercialists. If you want that, go see Intercorp. It will be a way for Traders and Commercialists ONLY to help guarantee a mutual protection so that they may survive as basically free entities once BCO is released. Second (2): Membership will get you nothing besides helpful information on areas of high raider activity / overzealous police/ or mysteriously agressive militants. But, membership will require you to take seriously any embargo enacted by the Union against any region. Third (3): Any member can place a claim with the leadership of the Union against any region or commander that it feels has injustly or excessively caused it or its craft harm or loss of profit. The claim will be investigated and other Union members will be alerted to the possible danger. If the claim is determined to be justified, through the use of probes, shuttles, etc. an embargo may be enacted against the system. Fourth (4): An embargo is a banning of trade with the embargoed region. A region may be embargoed for harboring hostile raiders or mercs or for having corrupt or overzealous police or military forces. Fifth (5): No member is permitted to trade within an embargoed region. A member caught trading in an embargoed region will lose their membership. There would have to be some clear confirmation of this violation (ie. Probe data or visual data). Sixth (6): Leaders (Alphas), besides my self, will be elected from membership by the membership. Alphas will be elected every month and any member can run any number of times. The number of Alphas will be limited to one for every 10 members. Seventh (7): There will be five "Free Trade" levels that the Union may place upon a region. Free Trade Zone: No raider/merc activities reported, police and military appear to be fair. Alert Zone: The region is currently undergoing observation by an Alpha and may or may not be dangerous to Free Trade. Embargo Zone: No trade is permitted by members in this region, although any member may pass through at its discression. Hostile Zone: A region that has a raider base in it will be considered Hostile. There will always be probes in these regions. Obviously trade and travel in these regions are not advisable. Recent Free Trade Zone: Embargo or Alert or Hostile status has recently been revoked. May or may not be hostile. Eighth (8): Interim method for joining the Union will be to post here or to send me a private request. ---------- Post here if you are interested in joining or telling me I'm an idiot cuz I need to get permission or something first, or if you have any questions. [ 01-30-2002, 18:33: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

Keep in mind all of the "action-reaction" controls in the powered armor suits that allowed the MI enhanced strength. Also consider that even if the armor prevents the bullet from reaching the user, the force of that bullet would most likely knock him/her off his/her feet. I've thought about this a lot too. The problem isn't building the armor shell or optically linking the weapons (AH-64's use a system like this linked into the chaingun), and the armor suits are essentially in existence, full body flak armor. The real problem is the system for enhancing user strength. The motors (or hydraulics which are what I believe would be used) are difficult to control in an effective, compact, and lightweight manner. Remember, its not the skin that's so amazing but the skeletal - muscular system beneath it. But some of what they've been showing on discovery lately is really cool!!

I don't think it would have to be official at all. Traders/Commercialists would just post their greivances somewhere, I'm sure there will be some kind of public comms system in BCO and if the other free Traders/Comercialists believe the greivances are justified, and would like others to possibly believe their greivances if they arise, would politely follow the "embargo" until a time where the original complaintant deleted the greivance or it became outdated (EarthCom wipes out Raiders, Raiders move on, or local starstation starves, puts out S.O.S. and is captured by some lone Trader, suddenly Traders/Commercialists have firepower!) Hehe. I think it would make sense, and help balance out these free agents against the fleets and corporations. Of course, this is based on the concept that commanders won't flood the public channels with false greivences. That would possibly lead to the neccessetation of some kind of body for determining the validity of the claims. . . [ 01-30-2002, 00:23: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

Yes, gravity is energy. I wasn't denying that. So is magnetism, but you can't "produce" magnetism per se the way you can light. Light is the release of photons, discreet units of energy. Magnetism is a property of matter, as is gravity (all matter has mass). But magnetism cannot be generated, it is developed by aligning atoms in a metal in the same direction (often through the use of electricity). Gravity, is an effect that massive bodies have on other massive bodies, it is not the same as light and neither is magnetism. (Or I'm just a really big idiot getting ready to put my foot in my mouth as I click "Add Reply") [ 01-30-2002, 18:24: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

Just an idea. There are plenty of opertunities for those who would want completely free-form play with the interactivity of a massively multiplayer environment, maybe I am thinking too far ahead, but sooner or later, even those who would want to be completely free would need some sort of effective protection (at least to get their money's worth once BCO comes out). And besides, this would be a completely politically neutral group, with absolutely no military capability, and little unity, simply participate if you hope that others may help protect your business when the need arises. The only unity would involve the completely public posting of "banned" systems. Anyone could participate. Essentially it would be a non-entity, a way of (hopefully) allowing lone traders and budding commercialist to succede in the face of aggressive corporations/ raiders/ and over zealous police forces. To clearly state this: "Mutual protection" is protection by denying trade goods to systems that are hostile or harbor those who are hostile to neutral traders/ commercialists. As I said before, it would maybe be difficult to use this as a form of protection, but I recall something in the manual about "blockading" starbases (Probably run out of resources in real time), so according to the game physics, this would be possible to accomplish. [ 01-29-2002, 20:53: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

Intercorp says: quote: Ever wanted to be free of rules and regulations? Ever wanted to make enough money to purchase and maintain your own starstation or starbase? Think you have the imagination and the courage to go independent? How about for real? If you are part of a corporation, sooner or later they'll get around to their rules and regulations. . . I'm sure there are plenty out there with little (or no) desire to join a fleet. Joining a corporation though, would end up being quite like joining a fleet (I think). So, I suggest there be a "Mutual protection Union" for all those commercialists, traders out there. No official rules I would think, and besides, that would make it a fleet/corporation. . . But simply a way to protect each other from over zealous pirates/ police etc. Simply control the flow of goods from place to place. The Mutual protection Union would not hire out mercs for protection but instead simply cut off trade with offending regions (or regions harboring offending players). Having enough members could allow this to work, as long as everyone was willing to stay out of the sector under embargo. Just a thought. I would like that better than joining a fleet/ corporation anyway. . . In fact, there wouldn't even need to be a membership. It would be a matter of voluntary service for your own "mutual protection" if you want to be protected you will help protect others so that they may help you if the need arises. This would help keep the lone traders from being overwhelmed by big buisness (read INTERCORP) and also protect them from outside enemies as mentioned above. There would just need to be some public way of announcing a sector under embargo. [ 01-29-2002, 17:11: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

Thanks SC. Just curious. I've never been very big on scripting but it doesn't look too dificult. . . Maybe I will try playing with GBS I.

Well, physics don't change THAT much. But I like the previously mentioned "Gravity" drive, but how do you create gravity fields w/o mass? I thought gravity was just a property of mass. . .

not quite. I seem to think there is a short decelleration. Short as it may be. I think it is there.

I just think its funny where all this energy dissapears too. Even in the future, you have to do something with that 500 million tons of mass hurtling through space at 1000+km/s, I don't think a BC could stop on a dime (which it thankfully doesn't or else I would cry). But I suppose in the future they would have inertial dampners or something (like in 3001). But why would you. . . Nevermind. I shut up now. I will simply believe that it works.

Sorry about the scripting - modding confusion. I was more wondering what language it is that GBS is using, is it VBScript (or some derivitive) or is it a scripting language all by itself. I think the only other game I have played with scripting in is Tribes 2 and it used VC++ (I think). But, according to some of the SC's comments on this bord,like here it seems that modding will be very possible through the use of GBS II and some simple INI file editing. Unless I am really misreading this or something has changed since these posts). [ 01-28-2002, 21:38: Message edited by: T-WOPR ]

Just curious, does GBS use VBScript? That looks like VB script to me If [boolean statement] Then [statements] End If C++ and Java don't work like that, but VB does. Just curious (I might actually be able to mod BCM if this is true!!!)

yep. That's about it. That would pretty much be Terminus with Cap Ships you could fly. The SC - quote: Yep. Which is why I'm never going to do it. Ever. The game is already complex enough as it is. I guess that's why its "A Derek Smart Simulation" and not a "Space Combat Simulation."