Grizzle

quote:Originally posted by Soback: Oh man, if SC doesn't bag you guys someone otta. What is this "where can I find it?" I mean COME ON, you two don't even live in the same state. Any store that sells pc games, might have it. Yellow pages, phone, mall. This is like one of those ludicrous, zero value, annoying posts on the Sims forums, or pretty much any other forum for that matter. Stop it. LOL, kinda like the one you just posted Sobie (oops I guess I just did it too...)

Prez, Jag, You are correct. In addition to that,the National Guard has it roots in the militia and was created through the 1916 National Defence Act in accordance with the constitutional clauses specifically related to militia.

Nice post Prez. But (you didn't think I'd stop there did you?), while the framers of the constitution were brilliant indeed, they unfortunately didn't have gift of future sight. Let's get some terminology out of the way first. The militia referred to in the constitution is not simply the rag tag Minute Men who fought in the revolutionary war. Congress was given power over a "well regulated" militia which in addition to ordinary citizens is known today as the National Guard. The framers were sharp enough to dictate that the US Military should not exceed the capability of the populace to overcome them, but they did this by restricting the *number* of men the US Military could have. They never questioned or considered the technological advances in military hardware. I support the 2nd ammendment. I wouldn't dare suggest the citizens have to lay down their arms because the framers of the constitution were right. But rather than argue the point on ideological grounds we need to be realistic about it in the sense that regardless of what the constitution states, if the National Guard comes kicking down your door, and you resist, you're sol. So despite the noble efforts of our fore fathers, technology and the National Defence Act of 1916 which formalized the National Guard, has to a large extent relegated the concepts of an armed civilian population moot.

Even though Wal-Mart doesn't list it, that's where I found it. I've heard some Best Buys carry it too. Checked BestBuy, Comp USA, Media Play, EBGames etc but the only place I've actually seen it on the shelf was Wal-Mart.

quote:Originally posted by Soback: You see Grizzle, that's what happens when you don't know the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the Declaration of Independence. The government is EXPLICITLY forbidden from using the military on it's own citizens. Oh really? Where is this explicitly stated? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant implied, but even then you're wrong because this is what it explicitly states... US Constitution Section 8:15 The Congress shall have the power...To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions Let me square you up... The framers granted the congress (a civilian body) the power to enact war and use the military, not the President. Maybe this is what you interpreted incorrectly. And before you get your panties in a bunch, go back and read my first post where I explicitly stated ...So while the intent of the right to bear arms is true and should be upheld..., then explain to me once again what causes you to go off on these tirades without having clearly read or understood my posts. Next time, before you decide to go into a rage and vomit words all over these threads in an effort to prove your point, take a deep breath, read the posts twice and for all of our sakes stop ASSUMING so much.

quote:Originally posted by Prez: I hear what you're saying. But consider that the prevalence of private ownership was only intended to give a government with thoughts of turning to tyranny pause. Understanding that the populace is armed, and enforcement of unconstitutional power grabs and abridgement of God-given freedoms will not just be meekly accepted should be enough to prevent acts of blatant agression against the people of the U.S. Call it keeping them "honest", although honesty in the strictest sense is a dubious concept in government.Well, in my mind the only way a government would be turned from tyranny is if the public revolted. Surely they would continue down whatever path they chose until the public revolted against it. I don't think the mere threat of the public being armed keeps them honest or would prevent them from doing what they believed was in the best interest. of preserving this country. Now you could say it would never come to that because we have a democratically elected government, and if that's the case it brings into question the reasoning behind the right to bear arms in the first place. Does anyone believe that it's enough of a check to keep the government "honest" when they know full well they could crush any dissent with little effort?

Let's just be honest about original intent and what is feasible in modern society. If the government chose to come down on the public, no amount of arms would be a defense. Your handgun or rifle is no match for military hardware. So while the intent of the right to bear arms is true and should be upheld, it would not make much of a difference if the government chooses to defend itself against a public uprising with the full brunt of our own armed forces. Which brings me to this question. Since so many of you have military backgrounds, how would you react if still enlisted and asked by our gov't to defend this country against a popular revolt? Would you take up arms against the citizens of this country? It would seem to me that it would contradict heavily with your strong support of the publics right to bear arms. Would you defend the constitution and desert your post or defend the government?

Terran... try Wal-Mart Ok, Just got it. Graphics are great (the space dust/cloud thing is a bit annoying though.) Intro movie DOES suck. Not only is the character animation lame, but the friggin music is so loud you can barely hear the narration. Story: After an hour of playing I already decided to bag the normal play mode. I don't know if the story is really good or bad, but the constant interruption with cutscenes, when my screen goes black is just too disconcerting and intrusive, not to mention the abrupt transitions when ending a scene. Bleh So the next time I fire it up I'll try one of the other game modes without the story line. For those of you who have played it, was wondering if I'm missing something when I enter a gate. My screen goes black then I just pop into a new sector...is this normal? So far no real performance issues to speak of and I'm sure there's a good game in there, but I don't think it's going to come if you follow the story line.

Back on topic Looks like even rioters get tired. http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/11/09/D8DP75V01.html http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4422422.stm

Or just add the moon you drop them on to your priority list, then use Fly To when you want to retrieve them...

Soback that post sounds like it's directed at me. And again you are assuming too much and making far too many generalizations. If you've nothing better to do than make foolish statements about me or any other poster on this board then I suggest you just keep it to yourself and grow up. Just so you know, and to prove how wrong you are in your assumptions... I have nothing against guns and their owners, I do not support stronger gun control and all I ask is that gun owners be responsible and keep them in a gun safe when not needed to avoid them getting into the hands of criminals. Despite my disagreements with Jag, I actually respect the guy. I may poke fun at him from time to time (and he to me) but he's entitled to his opinion and I respect that. I wish I could say the same about you.

Jag, do you prefer to becalled Marshall or Deputy? Not sure where you hang out, but I'm kind of shocked at the number of times it's come in handy for you. Though seeing as you've never had to pull the trigger I can understand why you're so anxious to pop a few caps.

quote:Originally posted by Aperson: Other factors probably determine crime rate more than whether guns are legal or not. Wot?! This is Amurica, where guns not only lower crime, but also help prevent tooth decay. Seriously, how can this statistic be proven? If guns prevent crimes from occuring then how can you count the crimes aborted because someone owned a gun? Is this based on some sort of prison poll? How many times did you crap your pants when your victim pulled out a gun?: A: None B: 1 or 2 C: 3 or more D: Only after you've eaten a Burrito Oops, we should probably start a new thread for this topic.

I do not doubt that Islamic fundamentalists and extremists want world domination. But they are a small minority of the Islamic faith. Just like Christian fundamentalists are in the minority. I wouldn't dare generalize all Christians as bible thumping, prudish, abortion clinic bombers who lock their children away in the basement to punish them or protect them from the evils of society because it's simply not true. And so it is with Islam. Now if you are arguing that ALL Muslims are bent on world domination then I simply don't see it that way. Yeah I know, it's in the Q'uran, but the vast majority of Muslims do not follow Islams teachings to the tee, only the extremists do. So do the Islamic extremists have potential to cause harm to the world? Yes. Could they possibly ever succeed in taking it over? Nope, they simply don't have the numbers. Unless of course they execute Executive Order 66...(dun dun dunnnnn [que ominous music])

quote:Originally posted by Jaguar: Grizzle, you are an impossible person to understand, as long as the government steals your money, but GIVES it to the poor, you're OK with it, but if they spend it on the stuff they ARE ACTUALLY ALLOWED to spend it on, then it's wrong. Fascinating.... Hey thanks Does that Fascination come with a Spock eyebrow? Let me make myself easier to understand. As long as I can provide for myself I'm happy. I can't fight taxes they are a necessary part of a living under a government in a civilized society. Now I could get myself all worked up over the governments mis-spending of my taxes, but I realize it's idealistic to believe they will always spend it on things I support. You can't please all of the people all of the time, right? Do I cringe when I see how much of my earnings go towards taxes? You betcha, but it comes with the territory. The only way I can see to guarantee my taxes are spent according to how I think they should be, is to not pay taxes and distribute them as I see fit. That'd be just more work and aggravation for me, not to mention I'd be thrown in jail. So with the inevitability of taxes and my lack of ability to rewrite the tax code (that's what politicians are for), all I can do is trust those I elect into office do their best to adhere to their promises. When they don't, I'll vote against them, which is no guarantee they'll lose. And if they win they'll continue to spend my taxes as they see fit. What more can I do? (Hey I could run for President...nah) So you see, all things considered, I would rather concentrate on those things that are directly within my control, such as earning enough money to cover my taxes, taking care of myself (hopefully the less fortunate as well) and voting for politicians whom I believe will act not only in my best interest, but also for the citizens of this country. You might be surprised (then again maybe not) to find I am a very individualistic person. Everything I've accomplished in life I have done on my own, without handouts from the government. That does not however, prevent me from recognizing that not everyone has been so fortunate, for whatever reason. It certainly hasn't made me less compassionate towards them. Do you understand me better now?

That's odd Jag. You and I live in the same country and have the same choices. I don't feel there is a gun to my head. If the government continues to take more of my money, then I'll have less to give to others or I can always make more to compensate (yeah capitalism!.) Either way, it's just money and there are far more important things in my life than that. One thing I believe with absolute certainty is that I'd rather die knowing I helped improve the lives of others than knowing my pockets are full of money.

quote:Originally posted by Jaguar: Poor Grizzle, he still doesn't understand.... I don't understand you and Soback, that's for sure. What I do understand is that you two are making a mountain out of a mole hill. As I said before, in a few weeks when this all blows over, I'll be interested to see your rationale for how this situation failed to metastasize into a global threat. Of course if all this time you've been speaking of eventualities, then let me beat you to the punch and state that today marks the beginning of the end of the world.

quote:Originally posted by Soback: You think US was established on principles of anarchy? No. I'm speaking in broader terms, to a time when our ancestors evolved to a point when they realized that working together was a much better way to ensure the survival of our species. You know the old two heads are better than one theory. Or the one expressed in just about every religion known to mankind that states it is better to take care of your fellow man than it is to pursue selfish needs. Now if you must know, I believe in taking care of myself first and anything I have left over I give gladly and willingly to those without. I know that must seem horrific to you, but hey, I gotta be me.

quote:Originally posted by Soback: LOL, In a decade, I probably would be able to run for president on a platform of re-building US based on Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and The Constitution. And the ONLY ones that will object on basis of my illegitimacy as a naturalized citizen will be those who will be threatened and affraid of having their benefits and priveleges that they have gained by corruption, taken away. Because those 3 documents would give the power, freedom and their lives back to the productive people, the ones who have values to offer, and will protect them from the leeches, beurocrats, looters, and criminals. And you know why I would be unstopable? Because I wouldn't care about PC, about which person or what population bracket or what ethnicity group I need to please, or any deals with beurocrats. Why, because pleasing, appeasing, or making deals will not be my aim. My only aim, the one and ONLY, would be to do my job, and make US the way it was supposed to be, to restore the power and law of those documents, and I would succeed amid all the yells of bloody murder that would be coming out from socialists, liberals, and third world countries, because I will NEVER let that distract me from what HAS to be done. That's all. Delusions of Grandeur is a sign of mental illness. I have a friend who suffers from paranoid schizophrenia and he used to talk about being a savior too. It's very sad. Don't worry though, he's been in treatment for a few years now and he's much better even if he has to be on constant medication. There is still hope for you Soback.

Once again Soback your infinite wisdom fails you, what do you know of the survivability of anyone on this board? In recent history France has had two other riots sparked by poverty and discrimination and we're all still here. How so? This can't be! It's totally inconsistent with what Soback says! Why don't you guys just cut and run NOW, what's stopping you, what are you waiting for? Surely if all your studied lessons of history have shown you the outcome of these riots then your conclusion should be to go now, while the going is still good. Just send us a postcard from where ever you two end up so we know you're still OK. We'll all sure miss your posts around here, but you better hurry, time's a wastin!

We're talking tax money here Jag, and unless you want to live on an island by yourself you've gotta pay 'em. This is a society where everyone does their part not only to improve their own lives, but also of those around them (including those that can't or won't). Anything else is known as anarchy. The only control you have over it is voting for politicians who will do something about it, which is not very likely considering people vote for politicians that do things for them and politicians do things for people to get elected. What about taxes to pay for infrastructure? Do you oppose that too? Afterall, other people do benefit from it. I mean come on, why should my tax money go towards building that road if others that don't pay taxes get to use it?

Jag, If you catch someone trying to burn your car, you have them arrested, unless of course you're in it at the time, then you might have reason to shoot them. No one has died during these riots, yet 50 people died during the riots in LA years back. That should tell you *something*.

No one is arguing it because no one cares. You make the mistake of thinking that anyone who is not conservative considers Michael Moore to be a figure head and totally representative of their ideology. I know you learned that from FOX news, but I'm sorry to tell you it isn't true.

Are you saying that California doesn't receive FEMA grants after an earthquake? That the state itself doesn't provide funding for recovery? I've never once complained that my tax dollars are spent helping people after a disaster even though I think they're fools for living in places prone to them. I'm not sure where you got your selfish streak Soback, but I hope for your sake it fades as you grow older.

I suggest you all watch the videos available from the CNN link LIS provided. It might just change your perspective on what is happening and just who the rioters are.