street228

quote:I disagree. The primary target of the war are Terrorists. We have absolutely no quarrel with the good citizens of Afghanistan and Iraq. Concerning IRAQ: Which citizens do you not have a quarrel with?...The 51% or so cooperating and supporting the occupation.....or the 47% who oppose it?

(Once again, im double posting, as I dont have time, and feel this is a relevant continuation to that above and i must hurry) This is VERY relevant to the issue, at hand: Prison Abuse. War on the Terrorist....and especially in regard to the INVASION of IRAQ.(TAKE AND RULE BY FORCE METHODOLOGY) First, to understand MY views and position, one must have SOME realization, as to WHAT constitutes a definitive difference between Communist/marxist ideology and what WE refer to as a FREE democracy. Just saying it is a democracy...does'nt cut it. Even OLD communist russia..had Elections...not so different from our own. " FREE DEMOCRACY " is the relevant term...and dont feed me that crap about being a FEDERAL REPUBLIC. "NOT WHAT THEY taught my generation; nor ANY generation before me." That was merely descriptive terminology... not a JUSTIFICATION to eliminate the FREE DEMOCRATIC CONCEPTS being stomped on today by BUSH and his NEO-CON following. Something, I would like to see differentiated in writing from YOU. As I have placed my fundamental perspective on the table concerning the two quite consistently. Usually the neocon response has some reference to emotional rhetoric, rather than an intelligent base. Second, most who stand behind THE BUSH family's Marxist ideology, base their basic understanding on the information released by the BUSH administration's P.R. releases, with JUSTIFICATIONS.... rather than rational and objective observation of events and information available; as to truth, in their actions;truth, in their purpose; and especially truth, in their actual results. third: SINCE the 1st bush administration, the republican party has tried to push thousands of bills through(some of which this administration has successfully accomplished) which ARE IDENTICAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to bills introduced in PRE-WW2 Germany, following Hitler winning his ELECTED position. End Result in hitlers successful campaign?....WE ALL KNOW. Now, WHY in GODS HOLY NAME, would you back the IDENTICAL path, which caused germany's demise....AND WHY CANT YOU SEE IT??????? I have read MANY theories, but no single theory seems to account for the COMPLETE and TOTAL acceptance of explainations which totally DEFY basic intelligence and logic. Im outta here, got to get ready for my flight to Georgia tomorrow. be back when Im back

quote: This tired tirade of 'Big Brother Government' is always lying to us is getting to be a bit rediculous. Forgive me for being childish, but you do have the right to choose elsewhere to live. If you could live in RED CHINA or RUSSIA..why dont you?...WHY you people insist on backing a system which DESTROYS freedom at its very base core...and expect US to MOVE?? sorri fella, this is a fight to the death...Im NOT leaving my country ...Im fighting YOU communist loving _____ to the grave!!!! quote: Comparing the mortality of 1'500'000 individuals who are considered healthy and mentally sane enough to serve in the armed forces to the mortality of a whole civilian population who includes child mortality, deaths due to diseases, drug addiction and natural deaths due to advanced age is the funniest thing I ever heard. Notice that I did not mention accidents, suicides and crime... That's Mickey Mouse statistics. Ever heard abour epidemiology ? There's quite a bit of methodology behind it... AMEN!! quote: I guarantee that an Atomic war is in the future. Billions will die. No concession to any Islamic nation or nations will prevent it. Disagree if you want... watch and see. Probably within the next 5-15 years. Maybe so, but IF that be the case..it will be because TWO or more...EXTREMEs refuse to bend, ever so slightly... You my friend are ONE of those extremes...no better or worse than ISLAM and their views. THAT is the problem with the WHOLE (NEO-(NAZI)-CON) self rightous conservative's logic, rationale, and methodology. I thank YOU sir, and ALL those who agree with you, for our destruction, as a people, in advance!! Those, who think with OBJECTIVE reason, may save this planet...DISPITE BOTH TERRORIST extremest influence and actions. We are going to give it our BEST SHOT!! Deny you stand for terror...and RE-READ your post!!!

I agree, on all your other points, as far as HELPING to deminish the amount of volunteers to military during (so called) war time..... BUT this does NOT negate, the 50 Percent(or so) who stand firm AGAINST this whole atrocity toward common sense and reason. And, not trying to be aurgumentive, but comparing the civilian related deaths to the ENTIRE population, against those of the Military related deaths, is really a bit out of proportion....dont you think? You are forgetting, the REASON, the military DEATHS are so low..... #1) I doubt the ACTUAL count is anywhere near as low as presented.(Since When, has the U.S. Government or Military EVER told the TRUTH about ANYTHING?) It would be RATIONAL, to assume the numbers released would be reduced, to help eliminate public dessention toward a war, which almost HALF the population is AGAINST. After all, ANY statistical figure's outcome can be reduced /or inflated..depending on HOW it is compared and How it is Presented.(just like polls...NO different) You guys are presenting a Perfect Example of this , by comparing the TOTAL population of the U.S. deaths, with that of a TREMENDOUSLY smaller number of Military personel...where only a few hundred thousand are actually stationed within a war zone. I do NOT say your numbers are WRONG, just that the presentation of those numbers or Pecentiles, does NOT provide an accurate foundation to the perception you present: " your safer within the military, than in civilian life. " In FACT, if that perception is TRUE, and it does have solid foundation..... Then there is something VERY lopsided, about the nature of our military and it's responsibility to AMERICAN civilians. #2) (The MOST VIABLE reason.)WE are the MOST powerful MILITARY presence in the WORLD..and we have INVADED an Economic Deprived, 3rd world country, with ancient, left-over Primitive weapons. Who had NO way of resupply or support. So, I suppose: so FEW Military deaths is something to be REAL PROUD of....ROFLMAO

I seldom double post, but i feel this is a necessary addendum. Then, I pull the following letter from my desk, and wonder..."How in the H*ll, ANYONE can continue to ignore the REALITY of events, this country has entagled itself, and to the sanity of those who do so." quote: June 20, 2005 The Honorable George W. Bush President of the United States The White House Washington, DC 20500 Dear Mr. President: I write to bring your attention to the letter sent by William F. Schulz, Executive Director of Amnesty International USA to you on June 21, 2005 regarding your meeting with Prime Minister Phan Van Khai of Vietnam. The letter summarizes key human rights concerns and asks you to seek commitments from the Prime Minister to release all prisoners of conscience and to make sustained and systematic improvements in human rights conditions in Vietnam. The letter urges you to press the Prime Minister to lift restrictions on freedom of conscience, expression, religion, and association and to end the practice of arbitrary arrest and unfair trials. As you seek assurances for the release of all prisoners of conscience, we urge you specifically to raise the case of the Venerable Thich Huyen Quang, the 86-year-old Supreme Patriarch of the Unified Buddhist Church of Vietnam (UBCV). The Venerable Thich Huyen Quanghas spent most of the last 28 years imprisoned or under house arrest for his peaceful advocacy of religious freedom and human rights. As you know, the Unified Buddhist Church of Viet Nam was formed in 1951 and was banned by the government in 1981, but many members of the church both in Vietnam and overseas continued to follow the teachings of its monks. Attempts by the Vietnamese government to control all religious institutions in the country have not deterred the UBCV followers from practicing their religion. In the last several months we welcomed the release of Father Thadeus Nguyen Ly and Dr. Nguyen Que. We hope to be able to welcome the release of The Venerable Thich Huyen Quang and other prisoners of conscience who languish incarcerated in Vietnam. Thank you for your assistance. Sincerely, Alexandra Arriaga Associate Deputy Executive Director and Director of Government Relations

I see your point lost...but lets take this one step further. There is a VERY disturbing social divide, created because of bush and the way he has handled EVERYTHING. One CANNOT discount the legitimate GRASS ROOTS reactions to this whole affair. for example: When I recieve a letter from one of the most Patriotic and FREEDOM fighting AMERICANS, I have ever met, like the one I received today!! quote: Dear Jeffey, Any Donation today, will be matched dollar for dollar by an anonymous donor. Please help! Your help is needed more urgently than ever. In its 40-odd years speaking truth to power, Amnesty International has incurred the wrath of many despotic governments -- whose human rights violations, political prisoners and other abuses came to light through Amnesty's painstaking field research. But few assaults by governments have been more disturbing than Washington's attacks on our recent Annual Report findings about widespread use of torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment by U.S. troops and federal officers. This reaction is especially troubling considering our nation's long-standing history as a champion of human rights. Recent revelations of abuse by our own government of detainees in Iraq and Guantanamo are simply shocking. They violate bedrock American values. They violate the Geneva Convention. These actions are destroying U.S. credibility in the world. When the United States helped draft the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the U.S. was a beacon of hope and justice for millions struggling against tyranny. Our leadership - in word and deed - is no less important today. Amnesty is in the final stages of launching one of the most ambitious mass mobilizations in our history - to demand, as American citizens, an end to torture and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment by our own government. This mobilization is taxing our already stretched resources. Please consider making a substantial donation right now using our secure Web page. Thanks to generous anonymous donors, all gifts to this emergency mobilization will be matched dollar-for-dollar. The facts are ugly. Witnesses to abuse of detainees in Iraq and Guantanamo report hooding, beatings, placement of lit cigarettes into prisoners' ear canals, and sleep deprivation. Amnesty has compiled a list of 60 techniques authorized or used by the U.S. during the "war on terror." Eyewitness reports from FBI agents read like the stuff of horror films. One agent described coming into an "unventilated room probably well over 100 degrees. The detainee was almost unconscious on the floor, with a pile of hair next to him. He had apparently been literally pulling his own hair out throughout the night." And these are not the acts of a few bad apples, as U.S. officials have claimed. Evidence is mounting that officials at the highest level of the U.S. government approved brutal interrogation techniques. Under the Geneva Convention and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, torture and cruel inhuman and degrading treatment is NEVER permissible. We need to send the Administration an unmistakable message - that Americans did not give the government a mandate last November to violate international law by engaging in acts of barbarism. Nobody voted for that. Amnesty USA is determined to mobilize a vocal, diverse and massive constituency throughout this country that will stand with our 320,000-strong U.S. membership in demanding an end to the use of torture by all agencies at all levels of government in the United States. Thanks to years of grassroots activism, Amnesty has a corps of volunteers ready to carry out this urgently needed mobilization And it's the most motivated and inspired citizen force you could hope to find. But mobilizing people also takes money. And that's why I'm asking you for your help. Please donate now using our secure Web page and have your gift matched dollar-for-dollar through June 30th. If we're to rescue our country from the taint of being branded a practitioner of torture, then we must confront the Bush Administration head-on with this issue. With your help, I believe justice will prevail. Thanks for all your help. Sincerely, Bill Schulz Amnesty International USA I'm not near as RADICAL, nor ALONE, as some may believe. The GOVERNMENT is SINKING, in it's own deceptions, and those willingly ignoring the ALARMS, deserves to see fruit of their labor...right or wrong!!!

quote:Anyhow, I guess if you were right, the Army would'n have the recruitment problems they are facing. Seems that youngs get a big problem with this perception that it is OK to indefinitely put soldier's lives at risk abroad with no tangible result on the field. Your right on the money here too, Nomad. I had a Navy recruiting officer pull up beside me, while I was out for a walk yesterday. He rolled his window down, while keeping pace with me, as I was walking. " Sir, has anyone talked to you about the Navy?", he asked me. I stopped and started laughing. I ask that Idiot, "Are they really so hard up? I am nearing 50, and have already done my 6 yrs... OVER 20 years ago!!" He tried to re-word his spiel, so I had to tell that dumb jerk to get the h*ll away from me, before I lost my temper.( I cant stand people who run their mouths, and don't have sense enough to hear a response ) I cannot hardly believe he could not recognize my age, as I do have LOTS of gray hair. I did hear rumor they raised the cut-off age from 33 to something else, but never bothered to verify it. Instigation of the "Draft", I see, as not too far from becoming a necessity. You cannot keep the kids caught up in a "Patriotic Lynch Mob Mentality" indefinitely. The momentum is beginning to die off(THANK GOD) I firmly get the impression, they are beginning to get desperate. then again.... I could just blow it off and say. "Damn I look good, for my age!!"

Now, here u go Jag: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sh...s/vanriper.html Im giving you ALL a front row seat, so you can witness a TRULY Informed and INTELLIGENT man speak. lol

First, they have NEVER been TRIED!! Second, JUST being locked in a cage, FOR YEARS, not charged or tried is CRIMINAL. How would YOU like that kind of treatment. NOT to mention the other forms of humiliation and mental and physical abuse...YOU seem to ignore...REALLY HAS been going on.... Jeesh..!! One can overlook (Lack of Knowledge)Ignorance. One cannot forgive willing and self imposed blindness!!

quote:Your comparisons are woefully misguided. The U.S is clearly no longer in the role of occupier. Where have you been for the last 2 or so years? The U.S is in a support role, albeit with an extremely high exposure rate due to the relative inexperience of the Iraqi forces. This will change. LOL, not hardly. I see your swallowing the white house BS hook line and sinker. Ill wager, you believe Saddam was an immediate threat to the U.S. prior to the invasion too....lol quote: And never once did I underestimate the enemy. Your numbers on the active insurgency are however laughable. If there were anywhere near the number of insurgents your 20% number suggests, there would be no need for cowardly roadside bombs and terror tactics. It is the classic model of terrorism. An extremely small number of murderous fanctics trying to control a population through fear. They been saying that for 3 long years...and they not all dead yet?...now that is laughable!! Again, your perception, that a well placed bomb is the act of cowardness...lol I will tell that one to my old Navy Seal buddies...they should get a laugh out of that!!! considering, that was what WE did during PEACE TIME!!!!!!!!! for the US GOVERNMENT while NOT under any declarations of war. This generation has NO idea how twisted their perspective is proving to be; Nor, how corrupt our government is...much less, how small the amount of TRUTH there is in information released to the people. I DO! quote: We don't have "swollen prideful heads", but we just don't feel the need to submit to your "nothing is possible, everyhting will fail" doom and gloom defeatist attitude. I think you misunderstand my stance. I have NO doom / gloom perspective. I see the unfolding of events, which could have been handled with intelligence, rather than some lynch mob mentality of ignorance. Just because you are allied with the NEO-CONs (does that mean similar to a CON? lol ...I think so) does NOT negate the rationale of EVERYONE who is'nt. FACT: we screwed up royal, listening to this administrations exaggerated presentation of REASON, concerning this whole excapade. FACT: We are so influenced through pride, and self rightiousness, we have yet to publicly admit we ARE WRONG. FACT: the whole situation concerning WORLD TERROR, has expanded exponentially since our SCREW UP. FACT: through FALSE patriotic reason, and media hype, there are those who will follow Bush to HELL, rather than admit they are. IN FACT, GUILTY of supporting; thus causing, the DEATHS of THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of human lives; Blame the TERRORIST( which dont exist- by the way ) for the deaths of iraqi civilians...it allows us to operate without a national concience for our IMMORAL, and down right Criminal acts, as a nation of brain-washed, merciless, uninformed, scared little sheep. quote: One serious look at what the U.S. has accomplished since 9/11 is all it takes for an optimistic view for the future, imo. I suppose, one would have an optimistic view of a future, which denies the reality of today. so-be-it someone else pick it up, ive said enuff. later

NO, i do not suppose the INNOCENT iraqi, who brunts the most harm from the situation, as a superior force; However, I DO consider, (53% of iraqi which are U.S. aligned ),tens of thousands iraqi alligned with tens of thousands of U.S.& allied forces....Pitt against approx 40% of the iraqi population(active insurgency : aprox 20% of the total population ) as a VERY obvious imbalace of battling forces. ALL of which is under military occupation by an even larger military and political force(U.S. and its allies) And regardless of what the media proclaims...It is NOTHING but a civil war, instigated and pursued by the United States...and those who oppose us, are an intelligent, tactically advanced, brave and formidable foe. The SOONER, we get our swollen pideful, blind heads out of the clouds and recognize this FACT....the SOONER we will find the intellect to evaluate our REAL position and find a REASONABLE resolve, which does not CAUSE death to the (so called) INNOCENT iraqi. you know....INNOCENTS is realitive to perspective. If the majority of the U.S. populatiion would ally itself with a conquoring military force....I think those who cooperated with that conquoring force would NOT be Innocent of anything, but TREASON, for NOT doing anything to help repel the invader. So innocents or GUILT is really defined by those ACTIVELY AFFECTED within the conflict, rather than by a bunch of lazy couch potatoes;100lbs over weight and half way around the world...who are mostly too chicken-pooped to put their life on the line for ANYTHING.

quote:These cowards are dressed like civilians, and in fact try to blend in with the populace when avoiding U.S. and Iraqi forces. They are TERRORISTS, not soldiers. If they were soldiers, they would receive odrers. Where is their chain of command? Same could be said of ANY gorrilla warfare resistance group.....throughout history. Since when, is Fighting a superior force, with inferior weapons and an inferior strategic position, from behind enemy lines, REQUIRED to follow traditional warfare techneque. I suppose that would be what their oppositiion would prefer...easy identifiable targets...to be eliminated with overwhelming military advantage. I would not call them Cowards... maybe misaligned, in their ideals, beliefs and methodologies....but FAR from cowards. I see a brave resistance being waged...by a group which FEARS nothing, not even DEATH. I hope we can put a stop to this calloused massacre we started in Iraq, but that is neither here nor there. It is not a COWARD, who stands against a foe of surpreme number of military personel and firepower for nearly 3 years, and remains a foe to be reckoned with. Underestimating the situation, by an idiot president got us here in the first place....I would hope Americans would learn to ignore the lynch Mob patriotism, enough to judge rationally, what we are truly up against. I wont hold my breath, as propaghanda spewed, is regurgitated and re-spewed on a continuous basis..with-in this and other forums I watch. makes me want to puke...but oh well. I will just keep watching to see the ironic continue to unfold

Soback, Sometimes, a person just has to go with the ole addage: "If it walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck.....it must be a DUCK" No big Logic dispute here....All those u have so called, logicly included into your surmise; ARE NOT ACTIVELY having other peoples young boys in their BEDS...are they?..and if so...It still makes them perverts in my book....REGARDLESS. **PEACE**

Now, lets see..... He puts on lipstick, makeup, blush; dresses in blouses, rather than shirts. leaves magazines laying around depicting graphic photos of men with men....and he likes other peoples young boys sleeping in his bed. NAWWWW, he's definately NO child molester...lol yeah right!!! I say he is a completely twisted PERVERT!! just my humble opinion!!

Darn kids!!!..lol http://d93.k12.id.us/~tech/smile.html

quote:It began with the formation of the DEA and ATF and the supposed "War on Drugs". yepper, Shin, you are absolutely correct!! Does it make you wonder: "What the NEXT concocted 'WAR ON [blank]' will be???

quote: quote:One hearing disclosed police invoked the Patriot Act 108 times in a 22-month period when surreptitiously entering and searching a home or office without notifying the owner. Why aren't our rights being protected like the government said they would.. (They lie! Damned politicians!) If I was one of those owners, I would sue the city, state, or anyone else in charge of that break-in. This would be called "BREAKING AND ENTERING" and is illegal. Is this getting to the point where the government is now above the LAWS placed for our protection? The Patriot act from what I've seen is just a way for the government to get around the requirements of our Constitution. The government could just pop up and point a finger saying, "Hey! Terrorist! We're gonna take your home and throw you in jail!" Whatever happened to having 'cause' to search. It's my right to know what is happening in MY home, with MY equipment, and MY personal belongings. Just watch, playing UC or UC:AWA and firing off OTS missiles will cause you to be charged with conspiracy to commit terrorism from space.. Being a "REALIST", I know this may sound a little strange coming from me....but here goes: "Get USED to it.....this is ONLY the weak beginnings of a trend, which "FREEDOM LOVING Americans" will live to REGRET."

Clever!!

quote:'Geez' says a scientist, 'I can't figure out what's doing this....and what are all those little white things spread around the pond? Oh well, they COULN'T possibly be causing it so I won't bother checking them.' Another method of adminstration is obvious, but again....after the dew condensation, the following morning, the alka seltzer would dissapate with reaction to the moisture...leaving a slight white discoloration amongst the algae abundant areas, and the on the lilly pads....took em couple of weeks to find out EXACTLY what was going on...then they CAUGHT the two kids responsible IN THE ACT. Seems there was some government research funding some statistical data,(obviously destroyed), in regard to some of the ponds. College was quite upset, and hired security without telling anyone. quote: It probably is a hoax, and you probably are right, but if it keeps happening hopefully they will have people watching the pond to make sure somebody isn't playing a prank. I believe I remember, they said everyone was advised to stay away from the pond affected....I think we will find, the incidents will stop...or someone will be caught.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story....544.htm&sc=1151 I especially like this part...lol ``By providing more generous benefits for low-income retirees, we'll make this commitment: If you work hard and pay into Social Security your entire life, you will not retire in poverty,'' Bush said. If you WORK your ENTIRE life...there is NO retirement.... Here, HE is TELLING you, he doesnt give rats..A*S, what the american people want.....>>ANOTHER: quote:``You know, if a president tries to govern based on polls, you're kind of like a dog chasing your tail,'' he said. ALL hail to CEASER!!! what a genius we have for a leader. You better wake up "AMERICA", he KNOWS what he is doing, and YOU DONT...and again, SOME of us DO.

When I was about 14,(1973-4) I lived in a suburb edition of Muncie Indiana, right smack dab in the middle of a Ball State University nature reserve. There were litterally thousands of toads, frogs, tadoles being raised, for all the biological dissections, and and zoological experiments. One spring, they found vertually Thousands of dead toads. Ruptured from within. Come to find out, some college students were throwing broken-up "ALKA SELTZER" tablets across the pond, which littered the lilly pads. FYI: Alka Seltzer will cause the toad to explode upon digestion, (chemical reaction to H20) upon release of pressure, within the toad, the gases completely vanish...NO CLUE as to why they died. HOAXES, are a mystery....because they are hoaxes. Any REAL enviromental change, would leave physiological evidence of it's interaction within the enviroment.

sorri guys & gals...just HAD to do this: "HUH?.......WHAT U SAY?????"

Tell em, like it really is...NOMAD!! I love it....just had to say AMEN, to nomad and his presentation..."REALITY"!!

they need one that comes to you, not away...... then uses a taser to jolt you into activity. Nothing like adding a little positive reinforcement. George Orwell.... Eat your heart out. We're going one step beyond the veil!!! Intellect will NEVER, out run the breeders, in a society which caters to ignorance.

quote:Does it matter? What we want is NOT necassarily what she would want. She was a VERY devout Catholic, and Catholics take life VERY seriously. If she had left a living will, I would NOT have a problem with it, but she did not, and all we have is her husbands word, but her parents tell us differently. They were the ones that brought her up, they were the ones that taught her morality. If they don't know, then no one does. Michael NEVER claimed that she would want to be dead until AFTER the malpractice suit, 7 YEARS, if he had stated it from the beginning, again, I would not have the HUGE problem that I have with it. A judge sentenced a woman to death, because she is brain damaged, and NO MRI has ever been done to prove that she is indeed PVS. At the same time, the judge sentenced an INNOCENT woman to STARVE to death, because she is not good enough to continue living, even though there are people that will care for her. For the first time, I find myself in 100% agreement with Jag, ...........eek!!!