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Shuttles not deploying ATV


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Dunno if this one has been asked over and over but I want to know if it is something I am doing wrong or if it is a known problem. When I give shuttles waypoints with orders to deploy atv they fly there, presumably gawk at their surroundings and then rtb. If I give them a halt order they sit there and suck their thumbs. I then give them order to deploy atv; they continue sucking their thumbs. Having had quite enough of this I decide if you want it done right do it yourself so I jump in the cockpit and kick the atv out the door manually. This is quite an annoyance when you are planning a fullscale strike on a base. I settled on dropping the shuttles 30 klicks away with halt order, switching to each in turn and dumping them out and then waiting to launch ic and transporter team from tacops.

Is it just cause my pilots hate me or is there a problem or am I doing something wrong?

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It is known that depending on the drop point, the shuttle may not reach the waypoint because of the topology below the waypoint. If it can't reach it, then the event that triggers the AI action (deploy the damn this, jackass!), won't fire. And the shuttle will either sit there or RTB depending on the next order in the sequence.

The only workaround until BCMillennium which has a different topology scanning technology and a full-blown landing model for all ships, is to do it yourself, as you have been doing.

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  • 3 weeks later...

ah good! I was wondering about these things too. How come sometimes it worked like a charm and other times it decided to take a sick day.

I hate if there's a bug that's indiginious to my game. Good to know others have the same thing smile.gif

But bad to know that they have it at all of course.

append: yes not a bug, I didn't mean for this one, I mean if there is a perk in general.

[This message has been edited by Cruis.In (edited 12-28-1999).]

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Ah. So, the part where is says 'Deploy ATV' and it actually doesn't isn't a bug. It's a feature. The Tacops console is playing "Lets make a deal" with us. wink.gif

Was it not a bug when my shiny new 2.09G version ATV (manually launched) as it followed its waypoints tried to do a 'leave planet' maneuver after it's last SEAD order? smile.gif Some engine in those vehicles now. smile.gif

Point is, planet ops are still hooped. Every time I try a patch I try the same things:

1) Log onto tacops, send a couple shuttles down to deploy two ATV's, and two teams.

2) Have a space battle in an interceptor.

1 is broken, and 2 the AI still cheats (a game play decision I think is what I was told a year or maybe two ago) and moves ships faster than their max speeds.

Thinking about it, the tacops code could be cleaned up a lot if the new Shift-E landing code was triggered just before any deploy/extract command. This would make the elevation problems totally irrelevant. If there is a waypoint after, another Shift-E to launch could be triggered, or if not, the current waypoint could be changed to a 'wait for orders'. Trivial - 10 lines of code.

Anyways, thanks for the latest patches. Looking forward to the next one.

Reven

[This message has been edited by Reven (edited 12-28-1999).]

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In very simple terms, the problem is that the contours of the surface are such that sometimes the waypoint is actually above or below the true surface by just enough to make it impossible for the shuttle to reach it. It depends on how precise you are when you set the waypoint.

If the waypoint is a little bit above the surface, the shuttle will not deploy an ATV while still in the air. If it is below the surface, the shuttle will never reach it.

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Reven

there is no correlation between TACOPS operation and planetary flight dynamics.

And please, don't waste your time telling me what I should do when you don't have a clue how the game works, having only started playing it no so long ago.

And no, it is not a bug. If you place the waypoint properly, it will work. If you don't, it won't. Because it is a pretty difficult process given the terrain, most don't bother. This is why there is an alternative. If there was no other method of doing it, then it would be even more of a problem and I would let the shuttles do deployments from the air; which would definitely destroy the craft it is trying to deploy, once that craft drops under gravity.

As for the ATV order, just because the AI states indicates that it is trying to do that, does not mean it can. The entire game is one huge operating system and an entity checks to see what it can and cannot do and falls back to what it can. Its called a rules based AI system. It didn't have another order to process after the last waypoint, so, it goes through its internal rules. If it could perform that action and then ended up in space, that would be a bug. If you don't want it to even test the rule, make sure the final waypoint is HALT. If you haven't noticed already, your shuttles and ICs will auto-RTB to the BC once they complete the final waypoint order. Why? Because they test the rule, see that they can perform that action, and then do it. If the shuttle that deployed the ATV was on the planet and in range, the ATV would RTB to the shuttle, if it can. If the shuttle is not around or out of range, then it tries to go back to its primary platform (the BC), sees that it can't and then stays put. The troops do the same thing and those that are transported, are even clever enough to flag themselves for immediate evac.

The ships moving faster than their max speeds is not a cheat per se. It is a design decision in order to minimize the length of time required to breach vast distances. And I did say that I wasn't going to change it in v2.0x

[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 12-28-1999).]

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Hmmmmmm. Well you should know better than I do, but I've never been able to get them to deploy automaticly. Mining drones however are a whole nother story. They always deploy, and you don't even need to set the waypoint anywhere near it to extract them. In fact I've done it manually while flying the shuttle and if you are in like 50 klicks you can extract them. It made life a lot easier to sit there and unload them, drop them. Fly to earth starbase without having to move.

At the risk of going off topic I think VTOL flight has some serious problems with it. I cannot hover without either taking off(thrust too high) or crashing(thrust too low), the only way I can get them to hover is to holddown 5 and it's pretty useless like that.

I wasn't having this problem til the G patch, going to install the new one now. If it keeps up I am going to just do like everyone else and use OTS for surface ops.

Oh, and how do I get rid of the email notification for this thread?

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25-50 clicks is the standard docking range.

There haven't been any changes to the flight dynamics model since v2.05. So, calibrate your stick if you are having problems with VTOL. Or maybe you don't understand how it works. Check the FAQ or the README.TXT file in the v2.09 patch. VOTL works perfectly here, in fact, as I'm writing this, my shuttle is hovering above a spot on the planet, not moving at all. Read your manual.

You can't disable notification. Your only hope is that the thread is closed. smile.gif

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Hey, just to let you know. I haven't had trouble deploying atv's or drones, after the first time I tried. I just use tacops, and set the waypoints from a top down view. (I dont think it could end up under the planets surface that way) And I haven't had trouble with em ever.

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The deploy/extract code is identical in all modes. The only difference is in the type of object that is deployed. So, if it can deploy drones, it can deploy troops and ATVs.

If the ship cannot reach the waypoint, it won't trigger the waypoint action. Thats how it works and there is no changing it nor is there any need to. Maybe in BCM I'll see if there is a sure fire way of making it simpler and idiot proof, until then, it stays the way it is because (a) it is not a bug (B) it works.

Reven, I read your post. Then deleted it along with my subsequent response. I'm not going to split hairs with you. If I was concentrating on fixing bugs and quirks, you wouldn't have 50% of the features in BC3K v2.0x, let alone all the free enhancements that I slipped in thereafter and which were never in my design docs nor my specs. I do it because I feel like it not because I have to or because I make more money from it. If I have time to fix critical bugs and do freebie enhancements for a title that, for all intent and purposes, is almost 3 years old, I would've found time to fix a problem in the waypoint placement. Guess what? There is no problem in the waypoint placement code that I can reproduce. Yes, its not perfect (since you need a perfect top/down angle and a WP above the ground), but it works. If it doesn't work, there are alternatives and workarounds. In the world of software development, you can't fix what you can't reproduce and anything I can't reproduce, goes into the bottom of my list. BC3K is too huge and complex to be perfect.

And finally, my statement about your experience with BC3K was derived from the age of your posts. I have no way of knowing that you played v1.0. For all I know, you could be making that up. I know all the regulars on this site. I know most who have been around since day one, even those who just read and don't post. Most are official Beta testers who have been with me going as far back as 1995. So, if you've been around since 1996-97, great; but my statement still stands as per the facts I have at my disposal. In any case, thanks for your support and do try your best not to irritate me. I do this primarily for fun. The financial gain doesn't even come close to the amount of time, effort and money that I've buried into this franchise in order to keep people like you playing, while other companies release crap and dump the gamers.

And just so you know, v2.09 will be the final patch to the BC3K v2.0x series. I don't care what happens, there won't be another update. Ever.

You may not like it, but thats the way it is.

[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 12-29-1999).]

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Probably sick of hearing me say this but if atv NEVER deploys automaticly no matter what I do and mining drone ALWAYS deploys automaticly THEN there has to be some kind of problem. Now maybe it is a PEBKAC(problem exists between keyboard and chair) but I really don't think so, unless I am just terribly unlucky when placing atv deployment waypoints and terribly lucky when placing mining drone deployment waypoints. I will try to pull myself away from Asheron's Call long enough to do some serious testing of this since I haven't done a lot of surface ops besides drones in a while.

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Unless, you have screwed around with bc3k in anyway there's no way it won't work.

all the time, the problem is that because bc3k is simulated down to personel using the bathroom(exageration) anyway the problem is, you can't get away with stuff you do in other games, the game won't let you do something against it's physics(meaning if it aint realistic, it can't be done. And it's not a bug it's how it was created.

I better tone it down, I'm just a newbie!

[This message has been edited by Cruis.In (edited 12-29-1999).]

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I have found that the game has a very high learning curve. Things that seem to act like a bug are really just characteristics of the engine. I'll agree it's not really intuitive, but it works once you learn the quirks of the game. I'm sure in future BC30##AD's, they'll design a more user friendly interface, but until then you'll have to work with what you have. I've done fairly well with it so I think other people can too...

Stormcrow, about the mining drones vs. ATV's; the reason mining drones deploy so much easier is that they can actually be dropped onto the planet from an airborne shuttle (They can also be recovered from any location in the planet). When the shuttle enters the atmosphere and reaches it's waypoint, it simply drops the mining drone which falls to the surface (with no damage). ATV's cannot be placed unless the shuttle has landed (at least I think so), so unless the shuttle actually lands first, the ATV won't be placed.

[This message has been edited by Shadowstar (edited 12-31-1999).]

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