20 replies to this topic

[Rosko]

I'am a vetran 3000ad fan.....but i realised resently.....I didn't know how to plot points(in tacops) in 3d space!! I was hopping there is something I'm missing,.....like the system they use in 'HOMEWORLD'(holding down shift, you are able to set depth on a 3d plain). Is there a button to press i'm missing? Is this not adressed in BCM or BC3k ? Help sc....anyone????????

[Supreme Cmdr]

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Originally posted by Rosko:
I'am a vetran 3000ad fan.....but i realised resently.....I didn't know how to plot points(in tacops) in 3d space!! I was hopping there is something I'm missing,.....like the system they use in 'HOMEWORLD'(holding down shift, you are able to set depth on a 3d plain). Is there a button to press i'm missing? Is this not adressed in BCM or BC3k ? Help sc....anyone????????

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[/indent]

Tacops is 3D but the points are 2D projected onto a 3D plane. Why on Earth would you need to plot a point in arbitrary space?

And no, I don't think you're a veteran BC fan since you don't know about C&C nor station capture, as evidenced in the other thread.

So, LEARN how to the use the system you have or you'll just hurt yourself complicating it further.

RTFM

[Pedro Pablo Laracuente]

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And no, I don't think you're a veteran BC fan since you don't know about C&C nor station capture, as evidenced in the other thread.

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[/indent]
The SC is right.
There's a phrase very common in my country that says: "in a closed mouth no fly can go in"
If you want you can read the manual or play BC3k so you can learn things that you don't know.

Sorry if i said something that you don't like.

[Rosko]

Ok the 3d plotting in the vacume of space isn't that important.........but 3d plotting in atmosphere is very important!!
If you wanted a fighter to come down at a decent angle to an enemy position, you could do that by plotting a point up high, then the second next to the enemy base(down low). Why isn't this an important issue like it was in homeworld??thanks

[ 11-05-2001: Message edited by: Rosko ]

[Cmdr Nova]

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Posted by Rosko:
Why isn't this an important issue like it was in homeworld??

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[/indent]
'Cause the variable AI of the pilots makes the game more realistic. If they followed every single command to the exact precicise point, that wouldn't be challenging. Just set the route, and boom, boom, boom--that guy's done for good.

The AI is really good, if your pilots have gained experience in the field for a while.

And if the pilots used an exact path, they wouldn't be having fun!

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Last notes: When you tell an AI pilot to attack something, they automatically plot a course, dodging enemies along the way, attacking, and breaking after every "attack run". Try it in the BCM Demo Episode 2 against a station, or even a land base. (Hell, attack Alderon if you want.)

And just wait until GCO. You just might have another human player being your pilot. I'd love to see what commanders do when they plot courses for their pilots. Personally, I'd just say, "attack this dude, use missiles if necessary", set him off, and follow up with my ship.

[Soback]

Oh man, GCO is going to be SOOOO COOOL. I just might have to get cable just because of it.

[Gallion]

You folks ever heard of using waypoints?

Think - TacOps + Waypoints

TTFN

[Rosko]

hehehe, empty response, but i'll stand down!! I do know how to use tacops in BC3k as well as the next guy....gimme a break...hehe............thanks guys

[ 11-06-2001: Message edited by: Rosko ]

[Cmdr Nova]

I know Gallion. But he said 3d course plotting. We already explained to him about the Tacops course plotting (the waypoints), but he was talking about changing the waypoint to a precise altitude.

No harm done. Good to see you're all set up now, Rosko.

[Soback]

Tacops, set one waypoint at 30,000ft, set another waypoint 10kliks away at 10,000ft, there's your 3d plotting. The shuttle or fighter will go from 30,000ft to 10,000ft in 10kilometer distance. Isn't that 3d?

[Rosko]

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Tacops, set one waypoint at 30,000ft, set another waypoint 10kliks away at 10,000ft, there's your 3d plotting. The shuttle or fighter will go from 30,000ft to 10,000ft in 10kilometer distance. Isn't that 3d?

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[/indent]
Yes this is what i'm talking about, how do you set each waypoint at the 30,000ft......or the 10,000ft??? The truth, i'm must have!!

[ 11-07-2001: Message edited by: Rosko ]

[Cmdr Nova]

Hm... That's what I'd like to know. Really; if I've missed something, please tell me!

[Soback]

You mean to tell me it's not possible? What am I thinking of then? BC3000 AD or something else. I am going to go try doing it and see what hapens. I could swear that I distinctly remember setting altitude for something. Gonna go try.

[Soback]

Ok, fired up EP2 demo, tried setting altitude, have no idea how. Altitude seems to be changing on it's own. Must have been thinking about something else, sorry. I guess if you want to attack something then just set it as a valid target and leave it to the descretion of the pilot.

[Epsilon 5]

It's in the game, but wasn't enabled in the demos (altitude in tacops planetary waypointing)

[Supreme Cmdr]

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Originally posted by Rosko:
Ok the 3d plotting in the vacume of space isn't that important.........but 3d plotting in atmosphere is very important!!
If you wanted a fighter to come down at a decent angle to an enemy position, you could do that by plotting a point up high, then the second next to the enemy base(down low).

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[/indent]

Waypoints on a planet can be plotted based on altitude above the terrain.

[Q] [indent]quote:

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Why isn't this an important issue like it was in homeworld??thanks[/Q]

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[/indent]

I'll let someone else address that because its too easy and my time would be wasted on it.

[ 11-08-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

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Originally posted by Soback:
Ok, fired up EP2 demo, tried setting altitude, have no idea how. Altitude seems to be changing on it's own. Must have been thinking about something else, sorry. I guess if you want to attack something then just set it as a valid target and leave it to the descretion of the pilot.

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[/indent]

• Set the waypoint. The system picks an arbitrary alt
  
• Tilt the map so you can see it from the side
  
• Grab the previously placed waypoint from the map or from the menu and drag it up/down

[Soback]

Yeah, I tried exactly that, but when you grab the waypoint again the screen flips so that you are looking at that waypoint from the top again.

I will take the liberty of explaining about the homeworld waypoint placement. You see, in homeworld you ships are so to say dumb, unless you click on an enemy they will sit there and let themselfes be pounded in BCM you have smart pilots who can make their own decisions on what manuever to make and which weapons should be fired and when to fire them and where to fly. In BCM AI controlled units (under your command or not) are able to think for themselfes so you don't need to micromanage every aspect their lifes. Final words, BCM and Homeworld are not even on the same scale, BCM is a simulator, a Derek Smart simulation at that, when did you see a commander telling his fighters how to fly, your job is to set an objective, plan and let your pilots take care of the rest, or you can just jump in the figher yourself, tell them to protect you so they will be your wingmen and go do the mission preciselly the way you want.

Man that sounds great.

[Soback]

Tsk tsk tsk, comparing BCM to Homeworld. That's LUDICROUS!!!!!!!!

[Supreme Cmdr]

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Originally posted by Soback:
Yeah, I tried exactly that, but when you grab the waypoint again the screen flips so that you are looking at that waypoint from the top again.

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[/indent]

It will do that depending on the angle and the terrain topology. See below.

But, as you pointed out, the precise location of the waypoint is irrelevant because the NPC are trained to fly and make decisions based on their initial orders. So, if you tell them to attack a target and you put the wp at 30K feet, as long as there is a target at that vicinity, whether at ground zero or at 15K, they will find it.

The reason the system is forced to snap the wp is so that it is kept above the terrain. Due to the varying types of terrain, the alt is calculated in ASL. In BCM, even if the wp is below the ground (which is seldom is), the NPCs know that and don't care. They don't seek the point of the wp pointer, they seek the general vicinity. Its not like they're dumb enough to fly below the ground just because some stupid commander placed the waypoint under water. Also, even if the wp shows a negative altitude (e.g. -500), that does not that it is actually below the terrain or water, its how the alt calculation works and based on the plane of elevation.

I don't explain ANY of this in the manual because its too technical and pointless. The idea of waypoints is to give a general vicinity of where you want the action to take place. Thats it. And the NPCs move in 3D space, so projection a 2D point in 3D space, is totally transparent to them.