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Economics 101


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Well, Riga and I are discussing on how the BCm and GCO economics will work out for the indies.

So I'm opening up this thread for discussion.

I personally feel that since we, the indies will be given a startup capital instead of regualr wages, it makes sense to pool our resources so that we can survive together. That makes Intercorp Unlimited really important as a business tool.

My 100 post, Yeehaahhhhhhhh!!!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Jeffery Eu:

I personally feel that since we, the indies will be given a startup capital instead of regualr wages, it makes sense to pool our resources so that we can survive together. That makes Intercorp Unlimited really important as a business tool.


Ok, here's a discussion opener:

The starting capital is as follows (from VCF)

  • EXPLORER = 75,000

  • MERCENARY = 50,000

  • SCIENTIST = 150,000

  • PARAMEDIC =75,000

  • RAIDER = 25,000

  • TRADER = 100,000

  • ASSASSIN = 50,000

  • COMMERCIAL = 75,000

  • DIPLOMAT = 100,000

Everybody can start trading and make a bundle, but you did not become an assassin to trade...

So, a merc is a gun for hire. But what can he ask for his services. 1 Mcreds for escorting a trader from GalCom to Genesis?

Seems a bit expensive to the trader.

It can also be a proportion of his starting capital (say 50% per served contract), or something derived from the salary for militairy commanders.

Let's suppose the latter. Mind you, it is _not_ a salary in that it is payed automatically every 12 hours.

It is paid per contract that is finished (completed, carried out, whatever...)

military commander (0 EP) = 75000

military commander (25000 EP) = 100000

likewise for the merc per contract (taking 50% of the mil.commander's salary)

merc (0 EP) = 37500

merc (25000 EP) = 50000

That's the bottom line

DISCLAIMERSSSSS: percentages and amounts are just for clarification, especially the 25000 EP mil. commander's salary, I've no idea what it really is!!!!!!!

Let the vocal wars begin...

[ 10-05-2001: Message edited by: Riga ]

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quote:

What about hazard pay?

That should be figured into an initial price. That's what the transport is paying you for; protection. A "milkrun" would be very profit intensive but one where you actually have to work you might end up losing money.

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What next a union?

The fun thing about being a merc is not the getting paid bit. It's the killing and the feeling of comradeship with his crew. Real life mercs don't get paid much. Assassins do, as they often work alone.

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Oohh, so Fendi's gone Indie! Not a bad choice! Use the sig form that Riga set up. See some of his posts for reference. The race/organization logo is optional ATM.

---

Nice. Everything looks good, Riga. Decide on a logo for IU, yet? I like the ones you've got, but I'd like to see more to decide from.

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quote:

The fun thing about being a merc is not the getting paid bit.

What?! The killing is a plus. But i'd sell a marine if the credits where riht... and if I run out of marines just slap a gun into some of them flight engineers hands.

Bow to the almighty credit.

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Ok, I agree with what Riga posted as at the initial stage we can't just gouge the credits out of our customers as that will just make they go insolvent.

Furthermore, they will rather risk the danger than to hire mercs if the price is too high.

quote:

Charles Lindsey posted on 10-05-2001

That should be figured into an initial price. That's what the transport is paying you for; protection. A "milkrun" would be very profit intensive but one where you actually have to work you might end up losing money.

You're right but that's business, no one pays for "milkruns" so all UCV commanders better suck up your guts and be prepared to shed and lose blood.

And I agree with Charles as whatever pay asked for must include insurance and hazard pay.

It is the also the duty of the potential employee to find out what the hazards are before taking on the contract.

That's what Intercorp is there for if you look up on my last few posts on the Organisation thread.

Don't blame anyone but yourself if you take up a job without considering the risks involved.

quote:

Fendi posted on 10-05-2001

The fun thing about being a merc is not the getting paid bit. It's the killing and the feeling of comradeship with his crew. Real life mercs don't get paid much. Assassins do, as they often work alone.

Bite your tongue, Fendi and give yourself a slap on your head. Without credits we won't be able to resupply and to repair damages to our ships, unlike the fleet p*****s that most probably will have their respective governments foot the bills for the resupplying and repairing of their ships and still get a regular paycheck.

quote:

Nova posted on 10-05-2001

Nice. Everything looks good, Riga. Decide on a logo for IU, yet? I like the ones you've got, but I'd like to see more to decide from.

I'm working on it, sheesh, gimme a break will ya

quote:

Jigoku San posted on 10-05-2001

What?! The killing is a plus. But i'd sell a marine if the credits where riht... and if I run out of marines just slap a gun into some of them flight engineers hands.

Bow to the almighty credit.

I hear ya brother

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Ok Commander Eu, I see a battlecruiser webpage there, that is NOT a part of the webring, now what is this?

Please go to the webring Signup page To get joined up and the HTML for your front page for the ring. On your initial request you will recieve an e-mail with the pertinent HTML info, make the appropriate changes and add it to your page.

Once I get your request and see the HTML for the webring info added to your page I will make you official...

Now get to it Commander!!

By the way, love this part!!

quote:

and the Assassins branch deals with people that are no longer needed.

Remind me not to make you guys angry!! LOL

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

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Like this Nova?

Hehe I've always wanted to be an assassin in this game. No offense guys, but in the military you got to take orders from your c/o, that goes with mercs too as well. As an assassin I just do contracts and I'm my own man.

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: Fendi ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Nova:

Nice. Everything looks good, Riga. Decide on a logo for IU, yet? I like the ones you've got, but I'd like to see more to decide from.

Thanks, we're working on it, both inside and outside the forum

Anyway, I like the second logo most (the white one with the blue hands), but I think the quality of it must be improved. The grey colors to the right are (by heart) only two or three shades. That could be a bit more so that the transition from white to grey is more fluent.

No definit choice yet though

Jeffery, you made them, can you also try to refine that one (err, which one do you like most anyway?)

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quote:

Originally posted by Jigoku San:

What about hazard pay? If I'm escorting some trader and a Stormcarrier attacks I'm gonna want more credits.

(If I suvrive that is.)

For me its like Charles already said. Negotiate a price beforehand and stick with it. If you calculate your costs to be higher then what is offered, then try to get a higher fee, otherwise look for another contract.

I just want to establish a 'standard' fee here. Not that it is fixed, but I don't want to rocket skyhigh either and end up paying all my profits in fees

Rundown from a traders perspective:

I trade 1000 Vagrants (7.500 BCM Price)

Buy: 6.750.000 (at AD station 0% inflation)

Sell: 9.000.000 (at HT station, 10% inflation)

Profit: 2.250.000

Merc Protection: 2.000.000

Commodity fee (4%): 90.000

Intercorp fee (4%): 90.000

fuel, etc: 18.000

my salary equiv: 100.000

Net profit: - 48.000

I'm not even considering docking fees here!

He, now I'm loosing money because the merc calculates that he will loose his armour and say his shields during the journey.

This is why I'm all for reasonable standard fees.

Note that I also calculated my own salary, which is derived from the starting capital. I work, so I get a salary (which don't get taxed together with the profits at the end of the year )

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quote:

Originally posted by Fendi:

[QB]Like this Nova?


You might want to select a station and add it after 'Silent Thunder'

example:

UCV Silent Thunder, Velari Starstation (Polaris-2)

Velari here is just an example.

BTW: ISS, welcome to my hometown

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: Riga ]

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Hehe I'll probably put my station to see when MP comes out. Besides.....aren't assassins supposed to hide and not advertise?

"Hey look at me I'm Fendi, an Assassin and my address is....."

Damn everyone would be looking for me for revenge.

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quote:

Riga posted on 10-06-2001

Anyway, I like the second logo most (the white one with the blue hands), but I think the quality of it must be improved. The grey colors to the right are (by heart) only two or three shades. That could be a bit more so that the transition from white to grey is more fluent.

No definit choice yet though

Jeffery, you made them, can you also try to refine that one (err, which one do you like most anyway?)

Will try as suggested

Since I designed both of them, I have no preference, its up to you guys to decide

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quote:

Jaguar posted on 10-06-2001

Ok Commander Eu, I see a battlecruiser webpage there, that is NOT a part of the webring, now what is this?

Please go to the webring Signup page To get joined up and the HTML for your front page for the ring. On your initial request you will recieve an e-mail with the pertinent HTML info, make the appropriate changes and add it to your page.

Once I get your request and see the HTML for the webring info added to your page I will make you official...

Now get to it Commander

I leave that part to Riga as he's the actual owner of the website and since I'm having bloody trouble with doing up the GFH page

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Jeffery Eu ]

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quote:

Riga posted on 10-06-2001

I trade 1000 Vagrants (7.500 BCM Price)

Buy: 6.750.000 (at AD station 0% inflation)

Sell: 9.000.000 (at HT station, 10% inflation)

Profit: 2.250.000

Merc Protection: 2.000.000

Commodity fee (4%): 90.000

Intercorp fee (4%): 90.000

fuel, etc: 18.000

I think you might have gotten the Intercorp Fee wrong, I'll have to check your charter again . If you see the GFH charter, the Intercorp fees of 4% is taken out on the 4% on GFH fees. in other words a merc only pays a one time fee per contract to GFH (being proxy of Intercorp) and Intercorp HQ will get the their 4% fees from GFH

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Jeffery Eu ]

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OK Riga, guess the buck got passed, please see my above message for Commander Eu, and handle it please. Will be the first Indies page in the ring, probably because it is the only indie page so far!!

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I'd like to bring this up.

quote:

Posted by Supreme Commander:

As far as AE goes, anyone can have any number of AEs as long as they are no conflicts of interest. e.g. he wouldn't have been able to have an AE in Ter/Mil and Ter/Ins.

I was thinking of joining the new Gammulan Fleet (to be activated after 10 Gammulans join), but then I realized.... (You know what I'm thinking, right?)

What ya think? Do you still need a leader for the Merc division? Or I could go back to Police. I don't want a ton of AEs. Or maybe I'll just keep one AE. Tough choice.

Update: I'd also like to note that I was hired in Orion, both just because I'm cool ( ), and because I could be an Indie/Newbie resources guy. I really want to see your proposal, Riga. Besides, I'm doing a desk job for Orion, because I don't have the cash or system to get BCM (and I didn't pre-order)..... If I can be active with Intercorp, while keeping my Orion ties, then it's all good. (RP)Bunnies, fear me!(/RP)

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Nova ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Jeffery Eu:

I think you might have gotten the Intercorp Fee wrong, I'll have to check your charter again . If you see the GFH charter, the Intercorp fees of 4% is taken out on the 4% on GFH fees. in other words a merc only pays a one time fee per contract to GFH (being proxy of Intercorp) and Intercorp HQ will get the their 4% fees from GFH

[ 10-06-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Jeffery Eu ]

Well, yes and no. The charter is along the lines you describe, but I deliberately did it like this. Otherwise the corporation would get a 3600 credits commission, which would buy some icecream for the groundcrew, but not much more.

Mind that it is just an example and nothing definite, but I really think that the percentages have to be changed.

For example (let's stick to the amounts from the other post)

Commodity (6%): 135.000

from this amount 25% goes to intercorp so the final score is:

Commodity: 101.250

Intercorp: 33.750

Why this high? Well, Commodity Inc. caters for its own structure, will fund one or more bases, or outposts on other bases.

Intercorp has to pay for building the infrastructure that is needed to cater for the different castes, like security, diplomacy, etc.

Anyway, just a thought though.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

OK Riga, guess the buck got passed, please see my above message for Commander Eu, and handle it please. Will be the first Indies page in the ring, probably because it is the only indie page so far!!

LOL.

Anyway, i'll work on it. If I cannot finish it tonight it will not be before tuesday evening though, so please be a bit patient then.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Nova:

I'd like to bring this up.

I was thinking of joining the new Gammulan Fleet (to be activated after 10 Gammulans join), but then I realized.... (You know what I'm thinking, right?)


Heh, no doubt

quote:

What ya think? Do you still need a leader for the Merc division? Or I could go back to Police. I don't want a ton of AEs. Or maybe I'll just keep one AE. Tough choice.


Jeffery already heads the merc's division, but I think that he still needs another deskjockey. The other 2 members are exactly that, members. No problem at all, but it leaves positions open for you.

Jeffery, help me out here

quote:

Update: I'd also like to note that I was hired in Orion, both just because I'm cool ( ), and because I could be an Indie/Newbie resources guy. I really want to see your proposal, Riga. Besides, I'm doing a desk job for Orion, because I don't have the cash or system to get BCM (and I didn't pre-order)..... If I can be active with Intercorp, while keeping my Orion ties, then it's all good.
(RP)
Bunnies, fear me!
(/RP)


Well the proposal would be more or less economics based, and that is what this thread is all about.

More like what are the benefits for Orion, Intercorp, the universe, ...

Sorry, can't help you with it at the moment, just be patient for a little while more.

About having more than one AE. Being both a merc (possibly at Centris) and also an Orion officer might get you into trouble

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quote:

Being both a merc (possibly at Centris) and also an Orion officer might get you into trouble

Obviously. That's why I'm wondering. I'm thinking of a position of... What do you call it... Something like Human Resources, or whatever. That way, I can do it just by being one AE. I'll be Galcom's main reach into one of the 'other' sides of space.

Still waiting about your proposal, and what Blades has to say.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

OK Riga, guess the buck got passed, please see my above message for Commander Eu, and handle it please. Will be the first Indies page in the ring, probably because it is the only indie page so far!!

Ok, the quote says it all. The first indie page is now officially part of the battlecruiser webring.

Jaguar, thanks for the fast response while registering it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Nova:

Obviously. That's why I'm wondering. I'm thinking of a position of... What do you call it... Something like Human Resources, or whatever. That way, I can do it just by being one AE. I'll be Galcom's main reach into one of the 'other' sides of space.


Yes, we call it the Human Resource Division, and we do not have a director for it (hint). Allthough I really believe that it would require a second AE if you're interested.

First of all, I cannot see you (the Orion AE) managing the HR division since that would mean that intercorp newbies are trained by an Orion Commander.

Second there is an issue of payment. Fleet commanders get a salary, Indies get a starting capital. I would not know how that can be combined.

Anyway, it's your call, but as HR director I would warmly welcome you (and Jeffery undoubtedly as well).

Just think about it: You, Jeffery and me as directors and Outlaw and Jigoku as members. Not bad for a month's work

quote:

Still waiting about your proposal, and what Blades has to say.

Patience, patience.

BTW: As HR Director you would have a say in the proposal

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