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BCFreak13
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Aramike,

Take a wee closer look at it from another angle.

What group or groups would benefit the most from the Indies, Mercs, whatever you want to call them?

Yup, you guessed it...

Criminals

Traders

Any other class flying ships without weapons.

A Traders Guild could conceivably muster all the resources needed to support a massive fleet of Indies.

We may have our work cut out for us.

Oh, and Shingen,

Walking into a Lion den uninvited will leave a very good taste in the Lions' mouth. If you're red on my scope, you're red on all the scopes of my Compadres. Bring friends.

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Guest Shingen

I wasn't walking into a lion's den, I was just protecting my position.. same as you. Oh, and Daniel didn't have too much trouble from them lions, if memory serves...

All is fair in love and war, and it would seem, BC:M as well...

[ 05-02-2001: Message edited by: Shingen ]

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Hey, Shingen: Stop talking trash about the fleets. Dude, we won't have a job if you bash EVERY SINGLE FLEET!!!

---

To clear up the record, indies can be:

Explorer, Police, Scientist, Raider, Assassin, Diplomat, Mercenary, Paramedic, Trader, Commercial.

For more information, see the Fleet FAQ; Click Here

Finally, mercs can do more than trade and be hired for jobs. We can still mine, and do all sorts of stuff. It's just like going under 'free flight' of BC3k, except you are a different caste, and you don't get violations (and no regular paycheck , looks like I'll be living off of trading & job hunting more than usual). But don't worry, I won't attack anyone except if I'm hired to or if they threaten me first. I'll be busy gettin jobs and scoring against gams.

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quote:


So basically what you're saying is that in order for an Indie to get work in BC:M, he has to grovel to the fleets is that it?

And organized band of indies can easily create corporations (traders, diplomats etc), consortiums etc. The game is open ended enough for a group of talented, dedicated and organized gamers to do all those things....and more. Even fleets need help at some point, since they most likely can't venture into areas where mercs, for example, can.

....and yes, if you trash every fleet, you're not bloody likely to get a job. You'll just end up being target practice.

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quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So basically what you're saying is that in order for an Indie to get work in BC:M, he has to grovel to the fleets is that it?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would not say that you would have to grovel to the fleets but if your going to be profitable you'll probably want to be trading/working for as many people as possible and making enemies with a fleet is not a good idea, if you don't like a fleet fine but for the good of your business(at least at the start) keep that information to yourself, if at a later point you get a good working relationship going with an opposing fleet then you can make your opinions known

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Guest Shingen

Look, I'm all for professional courtsy and all but if I'm gonna be blacklisted 'cause I stand up and be counted when y'all start calling us 'target practice', then that's just that way it's gotta be. You can't tell me that all of you fleet types wouldn't jump outta your undies if one of us Indies were to starting saying that fleets was all just target practice. Hell, you'd all break wind just to see who could be the first to tell us how big their 'stick' was..

if ya'll want courtsy then ya'll should show a little, and I thought this was all in fun anyway... all I know is that if you fleet start throwing mud at me, I'm gonna throw it right back at you, and that's the way that is.. and if you can't take it, then you shouldn't oughta dish it out..

'nuff said.

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hehehehe...everyone in BCM is a target. Just who do you think the biggest target would be when the GCV Warmonger shows up on a server? If you don't know, then search the forum.

Indie or fleet = Target Practice and if the TCO shows Red, then it be eligible for DeD Process implimentation.

TTFN

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quote:

Originally posted by Gallion:

hehehehe...
everyone
in BCM is a target. Just who do you think the
biggest
target would be when the
GCV Warmonger
shows up on a server? If you don't know, then search the forum.

Indie or fleet = Target Practice and if the TCO shows
Red
, then it be eligible for
DeD Process
implimentation.

TTFN

Gallion

your looking like a nice target when BCM comes around to me! better watch your six!

[ 05-03-2001: Message edited by: Emmett.hendrick ]

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quote:


So basically what you're saying is that in order for an Indie to get work in BC:M, he has to grovel to the fleets is that it? What I'm hearing you say is that you want indies who will basically lick your boots and kiss your ass, well if that's what it takes, then you can surely count me out. I ain't never had a brown-nose in my life, and I ain't starting now... if that makes me a trader or a scavenger, well I can live with that...

Not trash talking fleets is not equivocal to "groveling".

quote:


What makes you think that my 'business' will be dependant on fleets?? This is supposed to be a diverse and dynamic universe, right? ..so I guess that means that there might be a whole lot of misc castes/races that might need my 'services'. ..and like I said, if I gotta grovel to get your 'business' then I'll find some other 'business' to do... that's what it means to be Independent. Merc, trader, scavenger, whatever, and it sure as hell beats taking orders from you fleet types.

Until NPC's can buy (ie, scripted missions) or there is a large enough conglomerate of traders, etc., fleets will likely be the primary source of income for MERCS. I'm talking game here.

quote:


Aramike,

Take a wee closer look at it from another angle.

What group or groups would benefit the most from the Indies, Mercs, whatever you want to call them?

Yup, you guessed it...

Criminals

Traders

Any other class flying ships without weapons.

A Traders Guild could conceivably muster all the resources needed to support a massive fleet of Indies.

We may have our work cut out for us.

Oh, and Shingen,

Walking into a Lion den uninvited will leave a very good taste in the Lions' mouth. If you're red on my scope, you're red on all the scopes of my Compadres. Bring friends.


Again, until NPCs can decide that they want such services, it really won't matter. There are very few registered criminals, traders, etc. The three or four of them will HARDLY be enough to support mercs.

Yes, fleets will need mercs at some point. Yes, we will pay them. Yes, we will only hire mercs that we know we can trust.

quote:


Hey, Shingen: Stop talking trash about the fleets. Dude, we won't have a job if you bash EVERY SINGLE FLEET!!!

Nova, don't worry about it - we'll hire the ones we trust.

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quote:


Until NPC's can buy

They do buy/sell, each time they dock at a station. The only limitation is that they don't request services, items etc. Thats what GCO is for.

Also, I have not exposed their derived cargo yet so you can't see anything in the CVD cargo mode unless the scripted ones. I have not looked into exposing their derived cargo because it is blatant cheating to be able to scan a ship's cargo, without any limitations. Until I figure what limitations to impose, am not enabling it. NO suggestions please!!! Don't turn this into another wanton wishlist thread, because I'll just delete it.

quote:


fleets will likely be the primary source of income for MERCS. I'm talking game here.

One of the reasons to hire mercs and the like, would be for cordinated strikes, escort missions etc, especially since the MP servers will have limited assets available when people log on.

And since you cannot change your asset (will be able to in GCO), say you are a carrier cmdr, you'd hire a merc with a fast cruiser to run point for you, or you could hire a trader with a large transport, to haul your spares for you, when going on deep space excursions. You won't have any fleet C&C control in MP so you have to rely on other players.

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Indies are practically a fleet in and among them selves. They all help out each other, do alot of the same work and all of that stuff. There is only one difference: They don't have the rules we do. They can attack anyone they want and not get a violation for it! That's something to ponder.......

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quote:

Originally posted by BCFreak13:

Indies are practically a fleet in and among them selves. They all help out each other, do alot of the same work and all of that stuff. There is only one difference: They don't have the rules we do. They can attack anyone they want and not get a violation for it! That's something to ponder.......

Yes, they are free to do just exactly as they please but the moment they become a recognized problem, they also become a recognized target; also something to ponder. . . .

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Ahhh We love to ponder....

Yet another thing to ponder: The indies also get fleet protection when they are attacked. I think we shouldn't protect them! they didn't join our fleet yet we give them the right to use our facities, we GIVE them our protection and yet they follow none of our rules. That is absurd!!!

Now back to pondering.......

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quote:

Originally posted by BCFreak13:

Ahhh We love to ponder....

Yet another thing to ponder: The indies also get fleet protection when they are attacked. I think we shouldn't protect them

Stand down there commander, obviously you have forgotten GALCOM directives 3 & 5:

3. Protect all Terran assets and those of GALCOM member nations against hostile acts. These include the protection of all bases, stations, and ships operating within the Terran quadrant and their allies.

Note that this does not make any distinction between GALCOM and Non-GALCOM assets. As such, under the correct circumstances, a GALCOM commander will even protect the mis-guided Insurgents if need be.

5. Protect the trading lanes from hostile forces and ensure that all registered transports have safe passage through GALCOM controlled territories.

[ 05-04-2001: Message edited by: Tyrn ]

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Guest Shingen

Just 'cause we're indepedent doesn't mean we are necessarily(?) hostile. Just like fleets, most Indies are probably law-abiding citizens of whatever government they choose to live under. ..and just like fleet, we get dangerous when we are provoked.

I like the idea that fleets are just as dependant upon indies for logistical/tactical support as indies are dependent on fleets to keep the space-lanes free of raiders and indies who choose to live outside the law.

This should make the exchange-rates competive, and also it should keep us indies from being unjustly exploited by fleets 'cause they might choose to believe that we're 'inferior' to them.

I have a feeling when MP rolls around, indies are going to have as an important place in the galaxy as fleets.

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And there is, of course, the fact that the military forces of each system are not by themselves strong enough to bring down an iron fist on every world under their "control". Otherwise, you wouldn't have Raiders in Procyon, or an Assassin station, now, would you? The fleets themselves operate at their main strength in the home systems (and usually, only the home worlds).

I mean, look at Sol. There are whole stretches of moons that barely see the activity of the law. Military forces are designed, by their nature, to be effective only when they are operating in numbers. The indies, however, have to learn to be effective when operating alone. And while GalCOM would be hard pressed to justify sending a carrier group into the backwaters of, say, Uranus, they MIGHT send a single ship in to check things out. And that ship might have to be very careful indeed regarding who it has annoyed lately because, one-on-one, they might discover that the reason there are still indies around is because they have become very good at surviving one-on-one fights.

Just my $0.02 in support of the indies...*grin*.

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One way to prevent fleets from ganging up on indies is to have some sort of political structure that has consequences. I don't know how the NPC's would react, but if a (supposedly law-abiding) fleet keeps harrassing an indie of a particular caste or race, then others of the same caste or race would become unfriendly and ultimately hostile. At some point, the old axiom that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" kicks in and you start becoming more friendly with one side to defend against the other.

In GCO, players would have to form alliances to enable this. I know that the NPC kernal has abilities to script political alliances, but I don't know how much of it will be dynamic in GCO, responsive to changing events.

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Very poeticlly put DeSylvia. I just think that the indies can't urvive with out fleets. The Diplomats would be wiped out by assasins. The traders by raiders. There woul be very few scientists, and the police would be extinct. The fleets need the indies, but the indies also need the fleets. So can we put this argument to rest? I don't see why not.

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