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Max is Paynefully short and BCM is still in crunch. What now?


Scrivener
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So one morning I get a call from EB telling me that my Max Payne pre-order has arrived. I run down to the store, fly home, and install the game. By 10pm that evening I had finished the game... only to be slapped in the fact by the unlocking of a "Medium" difficulty level (The game is WAY to easy as-is, these should have been available right off the bat). So the next day I played about half-way through the game till I was blue in the face and absolutely sick of the game. So... I decide to give they're "super-easy-to-use" level editor a run. Well, it turns out that its not so easy. They include a quick-reference guide in the Readme, but beyond that nothing on how anything works what you need to know to do anything beyond a square textured room. What a drag. After a couple days of debate, I've decided that Max has to go back. In my book, a game that dosn't outlive the EB 10-day return policy isnt worth my money. What's with these 10-hour games the industry has been throwing at us lately? You'd think for $50 you would get something with a little more content than two trips to the movies (Assuming you buy two tickets, drinks & popcorn, etc). The engine was pretty, but the story was shallow and linear, leaving NO replayability value. There is no multiplayer and I dont have the patience to trial-and-error the editor into usefullness. Its going back. Today.

The problem is this, BCM isnt out yet and theres really not much out there worth buying right now. So I need something else to put my money into. Any game recommendations guys (BTW, been playing Majestic and it ROCKS. Definately worth a look if you want something different)?

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Guest Hellbinder[CE]

first,

I just cant understand how a game that takes 4 years to develope lasts only 10 hours. that is way worse than Daikatana IMO. I mean, it seems to me that the same game could have been made with the UT engine in about 10-12 months. It makes no sense at all.

secondly,

What games do you like? Maybe I can make some recomendations.

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Shoot, I'll play anything but sports. I was considering Startopia, but aside from TollerCoaster Tycoon, I'm not a big SimGame person. I just cancelled my I-War 2 pre-order (The game has been out in the UK for months, so I dont understand what is holding it up here) when the demo made it quite clear that the game had been dumbed down by epic proportions. The other option was Arcanum, but the demo left me iffy. I own most of whats out there right now, but theres always a chance I missed something or didnt pay a game the attention it may deserve. IMHO, all sports games are worthless trash. If you want to play sports... hell they're sports, go play.

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Well if you like replay value and RTS

then head to your nearest bargan bin and buy

Total Annihilation, and the add on Core Contingency. I played this game to death!

the FX get the job done but since the game is somewhat dated don't expect to much

The only problem might be finding a copy.

A year ago you might have been able to find one fairly easly but now... you might have to look around a bit.

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quote:


Well if you like replay value and RTS

then head to your nearest bargan bin and buy

Total Annihilation, and the add on Core Contingency. I played this game to death!


Yes, TA is still a good game..even if it is a few years old. It still resides on my harddrive!

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I have a copy of TA somewhere around here. I was never really that impressed with it. As far as RTS is concerned The Moon Project is the absolute standard against which all RTS games must be measured. Anyhoo, I just picked up a copy of StarTopia. I walked right into my local EB, Max Payne in hand, and Aaron at the counter says "Too short?" ROFL. How sad. I need to get in on a good closed beta program or something. My fondest gaming memories were all during betas (UO, Allegiance, and Sacrifice). You just can't duplicate the community atmosphere. But off to the games, at least while Majestic has me on Standby. I'll prolly get a freakish call sometime in the wee ungodly hours of the morning.

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quote:

What's with these 10-hour games the industry has been throwing at us lately?

I believe it's because it's hard to innovate today in the gaming world. Since it is, companies usually have to use tried and true methods and ideas, and thus, you already know these ideas, and can breeze through the game. That's my opinion, anyway.

Also, I'd like to introduce you to a lovely word: HYPE! Max Payne was pretty hyped before it came out. You have to keep your expectations low or you're always in for disappointment. Again, my opinion, take it or throw it out an airlock.

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I feel nearly the same was as you, Scrivener, except I didn't buy/return Max Payne...

I look around at all the game site, and mags, and there just isn't anything interesting out right now...

I'm patiently waiting for BCM and Morrowind.

Since other ppl were suggesting RTS games, I got hooked on 1602 AD for a little while, and you could probably get that for cheap now-a-days.

If all else fails, there's always Solitaire!

Capt. HM

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I think the game your playing is Majesty and I just bought that game a week ago (wanting something to tide me over till BCM comes out) and found it to be a different kind of game but very borring and repetitive. Now Im playing X-Wing Alliance again brushing up on my dogfighting skills, I think that would be cool to be Capt. of a SD and be able to send out a wing of Tie's I hope we can do that in BCM although I dont think we can send out 72 fighters but that would be cool.

Anyway TA never really did it for me, I beat a game called Starship Troopers its different and will hold your attention for a little while its in the bargain bins so dont expect too much.

Anyone know of any other GOOD Space sim games like X-Wing Alliance?

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MidnightGreen - It is called Majestic I believe, it is a game that is a mystery that you have to solve on line. A CIA type spy game, where you can get emails and phone calls from the server and stuff. Interesting idea....but I don't want to be woken up in the middle of the night by a game...

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Freespace 2 is pretty much more of what made Freespace so fun. There are some cap ships that are twice to three times as large as anything in Freespace. It's definatey a must-have if you haven't played it yet. But I have to warn you, it has one LAME resolves-nothing ending. Another game you should check out is Allegiance. It's online-only but with the realistic neutonian physics and RTS-style background, its the ultimate team-based online game.

As far as Majestic is concerned, you can tell the game during which times it's allowed to call. If you can give it full access to you, though, you're in for one trippy ride. Nothing's as fun as getting creepy threating phonecalls at 2:30am while your still half-asleep. I can describe the game best by saying its either 1) like being in an episode of the X-Files or 2) revisiting the old adventure title "Spycraft: The Great Game". Majestic is definately worth a look.

I did return Max Payne for StarTopia, though. StarTopia surprises me a little. After the steaming puddle of shyte that was Tropico, my opinion of sim-games had dropped to an all-time low. StarTopia, however, is quite a bit deeper than I had anticipated. The SP missions are also rather creativily handled, giving you new, unique objectives every level. It gives me something to do, at least between playing Majestic and reading the hate-mail I'm getting for my EBgames Max Payne review (Even though I have the most objective & honest review on there). But its all just something to keep me busy till BCM.

P.S. SC, I LOVE those forest shots. The only other thing I want to see is a massive cityscape. If not in BCM, then maybe GCO?

[ 08-02-2001: Message edited by: Scrivener ]

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Guest angrysquirrel

Totally agree with the guy about total annhilation. What an awesome game. Add the Core Contingency expansion pack, and you're ready to rock!

Hey, why worry about a new game to play. Anticipated release date of BCM is on the 9th of this month. Hopefully, it will show and you can go home happy. I returned Max Payne today for the same reasons you did. The game is way too short for $50. Plus, it's just like a 3rd person quake 3. Shoot, press buttons, shoot some more, find a new weapon. And it's completely linear. I have Operation Flashpoint right now, and that will keep me busy until BCM comes out next week. Woohoo!!

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Guest angrysquirrel

Oh and Majestic sounds way to creepy for me...

I like to play computer games...but I don't want a computer game playing ME!

And as far as the best space sim out yet..it has to be the decent freespace series. But if BCM is going to be as gadget filled as the reviews say...well...this may take prize from freespace.

Anybody here ever play the role playing game called "traveller." It was made by a company called Game Designer's workshop. Omnitrend (a software company back in the 80's) made a game called "universe." This game was supposed to be a combination of role playing and space combat. I found the game to be very clunky and bug ridden, but the attempted goal was really cool. You could trade goods at starports, interact with NPC, and totally equipt your spaceship for whatever you wanted to do. All in great detail. Like, I think there was about 100+ devices you could put on your ship (different missle racks, beam turrets, pulse turrets, black hole generators, different ecms, fuel scoops, space marines, launching pods). It was pretty intense. Too bad that it didn't live up to the designers goals.

Another cool game made by omnitrend was the "breach" series. Pretty simplistic but also pretty cool. It was all squad based combat from a top down view. In my book though, still the best squad based combat game has to be x-com. Great creepy atmosphere (but not enough for you to feel like after you shut the game off...it was still going). Okay, I'm off. Gotta cut back on the soda.

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I agree on Total Annihilation. While the graphics are somwhat dated, on a modern machine, you out to be able to get 400-500 units a side and have some REAL large scale battles.

Speaking of that game... I know why that game was so popular. It did 2 things that everyone wants but no one ever gets in RTS games.

1) VARIETY. What ever happened to variety? You get TONS of official units with TA. Nothing's better than having so many units at your disposal, that you can attack your enemy in a nearly endless variety of way. Granted, certain units were better than others most of the time, but sometimes some really weird combo would work wonders.

2) SCALE OF COMBAT. I have not seen a game before or since that allowed so many units to clash at once. We used to have LAN partys and turn the unit limit up to the game maximum (200-250 a side with 5-6 players). The frame rate would drop below 1fps sometimes on our old celeron 333 systems, but it was FUN! Cavedog didn't put us in a box and tell us NO MORE THAN 50 units so it runs on a P100 flawlessly... no they gave us the choice to turn it up until the systems begged for mercy. It was FUN!

Ahh... good memories.

To put a BCM theme on this post, I'm hoping that BCM and GCO don't skimp on the system requirements, and give us the option to lay in as much AI and as many untis as our systms/servers/connections can handle.

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I say a really cool thing the AI did to me in TA. I was playing one of the maps against 3 AI players (the lave map with 4 corners and only one access route to each. So I build up MAJOR defenses at my opening. I was kicking ass against my enemies, when all of a sudden one of the commanders moves into the middle of my defenses, gets killed, and sends most of my defense systems to hell. It was really cool. (I had it set so that killing a commander wouldn't end game) I dont know if it was a fluke or what. I ended up winning because I had a backup system in place.

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quote:

Originally posted by angrysquirrel:

Anybody here ever play the role playing game called "traveller." It was made by a company called Game Designer's workshop.

Traveller absolutely rocked!!!

It was basically Dungeons & Dragons for us space nuts, but it was somehow a lot deeper than D & D.

Man, you've bought back some memories for me. I haven't played that game in 16 years

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Ditto on all the positive feelings about TA. That's another great bargain find, you can find TA, Core Contigency, and a third CD-ROM of extra goodies now bundled all together at a great price. That was one cool game...

Oddly enough, I didn't like it the first time I played it; I was still hooked on Age of Empires then. TA sort of grew on me after that.

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It seems we have a lot of RTS fans in here as well. Have any of you played Earth 2150 or The Moon Project? I can garauntee that, provided your system has adequate gusto, The Moon Project is the RTS afficionado's wet dream. As is obligated in todays RTS market, there are three different and very, very, very distinct factions. Some games claim that the three warring powers are unique, but The Moon Project is really the only RTS I've ever played that not only proves true in that respect, but takes it to a near extreme. There is no way that, after playing the Lunar Corporation for several days, that you will be able to jump right into the United Civilized States or Eurasian Dynasty games without learning them from scratch. The interfaces are different, the technologies are different, the research trees are different, the way they harvest materials are different, and they each require vastly different strategies to get anywhere at all. Unit building is very similar to what you find in Alpha Centauri. You design everything piece-by-piece. Every weapon, chassis, and piece of equipment you have to pick out yourself. You *could* try to make every unit the ultimate war machine. But then you have to take into account that different weapons and technologies have different effects against different factions further depending on the unique units they've designed! To further accentuate the games untimateness, you have full control over game options including unit worth limits (Which you can turn off for computer-killing battles) and fully enabled weapons of mass destruction. Its perfectly reasonable to send a fleet of 300 hellicopters carrying nuclear bombs to irradicate every trace of the enemy (And perfectly reasonable to have 300 SDI centers to shoot down said hellicopters, nuclear ballistic missiles, etc). Just remember that 300 nuclear explosions will bring even the heartiest of computers crashing to a halt. But there is nothing more screenshot-worthy. Because of all this depth and complication (I didnt even mention that you deform terrain and dig tunnels...very usefull for digging past defense walls etc) the game has a HUGE learning curve. There are more options (Especially in relation to units) than you can fathom and absolutely infinate number of unit possibilities. Even with all this ranting, I havn't even scratched the surface. The Moon Project is a definate must-have for all of you TA fans. EBgames.com has it listed for $33.95 right now. If you don't have it, I would recommend ordering it. If you're more simple-minded person who dosnt want to spend several hours learning his RTS game, then I suggest you pick up Emporer: Battle for Dune... its about as average as an RTS game can get. But I personally garauntee you, The Moon Project will be one of, if not THE, best RTS you will ever play.

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I have and played through all the factions of Earth 2150. I found the game a better than average attempt, but in the end there was still certain unit combinations that would just shred through everything. I usually just popped on rockets and plasma for the UCS, Sonic cannons or lightning guns and rockets for the Lunar corp, and I forget what for the ED. Not that it matterd. Once I got my core units group in the UCS and made certain I'd weathered NEO's blasted unit takeovers, I'd haul in the veterans from my main base and clumpped through the mission shredding every thing. LC was slightly different... Remember that neat little unit with that super energy weapon they gave you... well for the first 1/2 the game that sucker can decimate an entire enemy base. After that you should have strong enough units to blast your way through.

Overall I found it to be a fun varient of the standard Gather, Build, Overwhelm formula RTS's seem to be fond of.

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