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Doesn't armor help?


Urza
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On several occasions, my ship (a Firestorm) was completely gutted (INT: 14) but 85% of the armor was still there! I've never seen an NPC ship with hull 16000 (star station quality) but INT 14.

I thought armor was supposed to take the brunt of the damage while at high levels, while becoming less effective the worse it gets. As it stands, my CC can be disabled (but not gutted) at 99% armor. Is it really supposed to be this way? If so, what do all those armor upgrades get you?

P.S. In most cases my ship was undamaged to start with.

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Yeah, I kinda had the same qustion. When you shoot at other ships, you can see their armour fall and when it gets bellow 50% you can see their FC bays get damaged, their reactor and so forth, some of my FC bays got blown up when my armour was at 91 and reactor down to 53% when the armour was at 82. I can agree with other systems getting damaged, but since AI has it that their main systems become damaged only when their armour is almoust gone, I want to have that too.

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Soback ]

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If it's like previous versions of BC3000AD then armor matters, but only locally. That is, you can have a hole punched 100% of the way through an area covering just 10% of its total (reducing you to 90% armor), thus exposing the softer hull and internal systems in that area. Systems like launch bays can be especially vulnerable because they are, out of necessity, among the most outlying sections of the ship.

If you have bandits on your tail continuously blasting away at a particular section of your ship, as can often happen when you're concentrating on some other target, the one attacking you can more easily hit you in the same spot repeatedly, reducing the armor (and hull) there to a point where internal system become vulnerable.

As you twist and turn to follow your target (at least for me ), hits are more likely to be distributed around different parts of your target, so you might see armor reduced by a much greater percentage before the hull and internal systems become damaged.

I haven't tried this yet in BCM, but in BC3000AD you could take one of your own FC out and blast away at a specific spot on your CC and watch just what I described above happen. That is, total CC 'armor' will be reduced only slightly (5% - 10%), but you will then start to damage the hull, then the systems located in that section of the ship. All-in-all very cool, IMHO - I sure hope it still works this way .

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The armor has nothing to do with the integrity of the ship. That integrity is made up of several systems. You could still have your armor intact and a low integrity.

quote:


All-in-all very cool, IMHO - I sure hope it still works this way

It does. As it remains unchanged from BC3K

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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So, if my total hull is 18000, it would take about 1800 damage concentrated in one spot to score any significant internal damage. That's as much hull as some crusiers!

On another note, what's the difference between armor and hull? I've never seen the two meters on the bridgeviewer not be the same.

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I like to think of armor as a system that PREVENTS widespread damage when receiving a hit.

With Tit I armour, you can get hit and have several systems drop to 50% or below.

With Tit III you get hit in same spot, and maybe only 1 of those systems gets damaged to down to 80%.

Your integrity is also protected better with higher armour. If you think about it, if you're getting hit on the left side of the ship and get major damage, your integrity drops to 40% or so... but thanks to your Tit III armour, only a cargo bay and quarters get blasted down to 20% and you can still hyperjump outta there (because the hits didnt penetrate to the reactor/engine systems). If you had lower armour, you would be dead.

Its like a bulletproof vest. You can get hit and be hurt..but the level of hurt depends on the vest. Bad vests will allow the bullet to go through, albeit with less hitting power. Good vests will stop the slug, but you still get hurt.. by the kinetic force..you may crack a rib, but heck, its much better than having it shot out eh?

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If u rotate while taking damage u'll end up with 90% of your systems at 0% and 40% hull/armor left.

Now think if it was your car and u are driving behind a truck carrying bricks. As truck hits a pot hole few bricks hit yoir car and everything inside explodes and your friends die while outside your car has only few bumps and scraches.

Somtimes it seems that your systems are not inside protected by armor but are external like pods attacheted to the ship.

kinda funny in a way

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40% hull/armor is not just scratches and dents. That's OVER half your "car" being utterly destroyed...surprise, the interior of the "car" is also nearly completely destroyed.

BTW, the reason you only drop to 40% is because rotation is 2d. This is 3d. Some of that armor is on top and bottom of your craft

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The point is that u'll run out of internal systems before u run out of armor.

should be the other way around.

i understand if missle was able to damage 1 system with a hit, it has explosive effect.

But when interseptor hits u 5-6 times with a laser and your shutle bay is gone, how do u wanna explain that.

Armor doesnt seem to protect internal systmes more like covers them, or holds them together in an organized way.

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quote:

The point is that u'll run out of internal systems before u run out of armor.

should be the other way around.


I see this differently. Armor shouldn't automatically be assumed to be magically all concentrated at the particular point where you're being hit. I like thinking of armor as covering the whole ship, or at least its critical systems. You don't have to destroy all of it to damage what's inside, you just have to blow a hole in a relatively small precentage of it. It feels more realistic this way.

I know it's common for space sims to work differently - take JumpGate, forex: blast through shields reducing them to zero thus exposing the armor, then blast armor, taking it from 100% to zero, then hurt ship until it blows up. The BC series doesn't work this way and I, for one at least, amn happy it doesn't.

Guess it's a matter of taste/opinion

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i see what u are saying and i like armor in BCM as it is. What i am saying is if missle hits shutle bay it may take out and damage most of the walls shutle chargers and whats inside the bay.

But if laster hits 8 times and pierces armor, the walls will have 8 holes and even if it hits few systems they may not be completly destroyed. therefore shuttle bay itself will have over 90% integrity. But in BCM several laser shots knock out some system down to 5-10%.

And i am not touching part where fighter hits my CC at full speed and takes 10% damage while 2-4 of my systems are gone to 0% (it happend before)

Now think if a car would hit a truck at full speed and bounce back with broken windows and some dents, wouldnt that be nice when u dont have ensurence

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quote:

Originally posted by EAGLE:

You wish. I have yet to be killed by NPC.

we'll see what u made of when MP comes out

Hehe beware of this one Gallion. EAGLE want to be an assassin?

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Assasin hm... probably not, I am a merc at heart.

I dont really like cloak† kinds things, only sometimes.

I like taking enemy face to face, DO or DIE.

and i hope main guns will be revised otherwise i am changeing my cruiser for a zenstart and waist any who stand on my way.

U know with zenstar u can take on 2 carriers 2 cruiser and 5 fighters at the same time and never have your shields lowered below 40%.

did that once, only took 20% armor damage, kept raming into fighters while making my run.

the only thing that can damage u in a fighter is a space station.

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quote:

Originally posted by EAGLE:

You wish. I have yet to be killed by NPC.

we'll see what u made of when MP comes out

Ooooowwwww, I'm scared this guy Fendi What should I do?

Start playing real campaigns. Break from the Training and ROAM scenarios already

MP gonna be fun

TTFN

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quote:

Originally posted by Gallion:

Ooooowwwww, I'm scared this guy Fendi What should I do?

Start playing real campaigns. Break from the Training and ROAM scenarios already

MP gonna be fun

TTFN

I think he's thrown down the gauntlet at you Gallion. I guess you'll be his marked man in MP and vice versa. This is definately going to be fun to watch.

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quote:

Originally posted by Fendi:

I think he's thrown down the gauntlet at you Gallion. I guess you'll be his marked man in MP and vice versa. This is definately going to be fun to watch.

Everyone is a target in MP Fendi

The old adage, If its RED, its dead, seems to apply here

TTFN

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quote:

Originally posted by Gallion:

Everyone is a target in MP Fendi

The old adage,
If its
RED
, its dead
, seems to apply here

TTFN

Thank god there's cloaking devices.

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I got the feeling that BCM campain is same as BC3K

and i did that one. So didnt do this one couse i know the story and i'll wait till i get bored with roam to do it. Something tells me camapin wont be that hard when it comes to staying alive, completeing it may be different story.

And by no means i want you to be affraid of me... i wouldnt want you to run.

*Pulls out his Things to do in MP list*

*Find ICV-Graf Spee*

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