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Supreme Cmdr

BCM multiplayer. To be or not to be?

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quote:

Originally posted by DREADA:

I strongly disagree, maybe so in Tribes II now, but in the original Tribes, teamwork (in team-games obviously not deathmatches) was the key to winning in the original game. Everyone and I mean everyone had a job, from the big, heavy assault pilots, to the long distance snipers (hiding in a valley), to the engineers whose job it was just to keep the base's generator online.

Lets agree to disagree on this. The main problem in MP, tribes style, is there is no time to chat, it is constant gameplay. I play Battlezone 2, after a game is over, we go back to chat. That is how I got in a clan(i.e. organized). In Tribes and MP games like it, when is there time to get to know someone.

Battlecruiser has this excellent message board, that is how we get together. My main point was one that was raised earlier, we all live in different timezones, have different schedules. BCM isn't like Half Life where there are 200,000 people playing at any one time. BCM players are around 10,000, I would imagine, the hard-core ones.

In tribes, I play an engineer, concentrating on defense sometimes, other times I play an assasin or a spy(w/espionge pack), and take to offense. But I am not following anyone's orders. I know there are others just playing deathmatch, some grab the flag and actually try to make it back. But we are all independent. That was one of the critisizm of tribes 1, and where tribes 2 was suppose to improve on. The problem with tribes 2 was the vehicle control was so bad, it made it impossible to play anything but an offensive player. One minor point about Tribes 2, the voices were horrible. The voices in Tribes 1 where so silly, it was funny in itself.

So, if 3000ad is thinking on having a tribes-style game on the planet, i wish them the best. But I really don't think it will be that fun, beyond just trying it once.

BCM MP should stick to space and the epic space battles. BCM MP on planets in first-person-shooter style would just be a waste of time.

Planets should be restricted to single-player, if that is possible. BCM space is awesome, hyperspacing in and out of sectors. Look at Star Trek Bridge Commander multiplayer. That is alot of fun. Now combine Star Trek Bridge Commander, transporting down to planets, and tribes. That would be an incredible game.

The dedicated servers could be the planets. Jump into Star Trek, orbit a planet, and join a tribes-style game. Or, just stay in space and fight it out with each other, photons blaz'n.

If BCM was like that, I would be a mega-hit for multi-player. But, I think that is more than what 3000ad can chew, and be successful that is.

I'm sure they can do it, but successfully?

I'm always hopefull.

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quote:

Well, you've got a long wait because I don't have time to finish the docs. And without the docs, I'm not planning on releasing it to the public. So far, only the devs and testers have it.

I don't need the docs. I have seen the objdefs.scr file because it was included with well's mod, but I cannot apply any changes I wish to implement without the compiler.

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quote:

I don't need the docs. I have seen the objdefs.scr file because it was included with well's mod, but I cannot apply any changes I wish to implement without the compiler.


Same with me.... i just want to modify craft stats so we can have longer and better battles along with some other things. I'm not adding any ships until BCG (hopefully) so thats the only thing i've got to do.

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quote:


Originally posted by StarRider:

In Tribes and MP games like it, when is there time to get to know someone.Battlecruiser has this excellent message board, that is how we get together.


And this is the primary reason that I scrapped my original mp plans and went for a more community based feel by rolling out our own portal (similar to GameSpy Arcade but sans the bloat etc) at www.battlecruiser.net which has its own chat interface etc. So, you can either hand around there and chat - in real time - or host/join a server. Even most of the advanced features e.g. lobbyin-game chat are some of the high-end features being implemented.

As for the mp style of play, if you want to remain in space, you don't have to play on a planet. The way I have designed the mp regions is such that they are rotated like maps in regular games. Whoever is running a server can choose to run a region rotation or just list (in the BCMP.INI file) the regions which only have planet regions (no space). However, unless you're running your own server, you don't have a choice as to what region you are playing on. Thats up to the server.

Here is what the BCMP.INI file I'm currently using looks like. As you can see, the person running the server has a lot of control over what games are running etc.

Anyway, saying that mp should only be in space is just plain silly.

code:


; this is a comment line

[server]

server_name= bcmp server

server_ip= 192.168.1.100

server_port= 14570

server_password =

server_welcome_message = Welcome to my mp server

server_type = internet

server_max_connection = 56

server_dedicated = 1

server_player_limit = 32

server_bandwidth_limit = 256

server_game_type = skirmish

game_time_limit = 60

game_score_limit = 100

[client]

client_spawn_time = 15

client_start_delay = 30

client_iff_mode = 1

client_allow_teamswitch = 1

[game.scenarios]

bcmp0000.mis

bcmp0001.mis

bcmp0002.mis

bcmp0003.mis

[game.restrictions]

game_ttd_mode = 1

game_ext_camera_mode = 1

game_allow_docking = 1

game_allow_supportcrafts = 1

game_allow_probes = 1

game_allow_tacops = 1

game_allow_otsweapons = 1

game_allow_fleetcc = 1

game_allow_asset_switch = 1

game_allow_planetfall = 1

[game.race]

credian = 1

droidan = 1

empirian = 1

falkerie = 1

gammulan = 1

kandorian = 1

mandorian = 1

syrion = 1

terran = 1

valkerie = 1

vesperon = 1

zelon = 1

galaxian = 0

[game.caste]

assassin = 1

commercial = 1

diplomat = 1

earthcom = 1

explorer = 1

insurgent = 1

mercenary = 1

military = 1

paramedic = 1

police = 1

raider = 1

scientist = 1

trader = 1

[game.career]

commander = 1

planetary_support_pilot = 1

elite_force_pilot = 1

elite_force_marine = 1

mobile_infantry_marine = 1

space_force_marine = 0


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My intial response was "MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME EITHERWAY" however when i think about it some more you the fans should just buy it. I mean think about it a hardcore game like this how many have been released recently?

How many are there going to be released?

(waiting for www.lo-mac.com though)

I 've got a lot of games of the Janes series but you should check www.janes.ea.com now!. Games like this are just not that profitable (generaly speaking).

Check the price of updates/missionpacks for mission Ghost Recon , BF1942 or OFP. I think think we should just buy it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mano Faber:

I 've got a lot of games of the Janes series but you should check
now!. Games like this are just not that profitable (generaly speaking).

You have a excellent point, I think we 'should' care, for the reason above. I played Janes USAF, great game, but no one played MP because of that web-page-based interface, in MHO.

BTW, SC, thanks for the detail on MP, that is similiar like Half-Life, rotating maps.

Games like battlecruiser, especially BCM, we consumers should be more involved in, if there is multi-player, use it, and be happy with it.

I think we as gamers are getting spoiled, I can see that in some of my thoughts at times, especially with graphics. Big games like BCM, FL, X2(ok, smaller), EVE, are all developed to keep us, the consumer, happy with the game.

BCM, given its size, scope, independent developer, etc, should not be taken for granted.

(ok. maybe it is because its Sunday....i'm alway remember my grandma, "count your blessings sonny")

But, it is true, we as gamers should count our blessings. Because, when it isn't profitable for a company to make these kind of games, they won't.

And there will be 3000ad, still doing it simply because they love the game. (and making lots of money too, I hope)

Doesn't matter how much money Microsoft has, at some point they will decide to can Freelancer support. Freelancer won't be as profitable as Age of Empires II. The developers will move on to other projects. Why bother giving Microsoft our money, in the first place. I just don't have time to screw around with learning new games, and having the rug taken out from under me.

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On the same lines as StarRiders' last post, if I win the lottery, I'll send you money, SC, to speed the development cycle. And you can hold me to that.

Now I just have to win the lotto

To get on topic, the way i see it, the technology you are developing to integrate all these different engines and create this dynamic universe will have great value for further projects far into the future, and the things you are learning and developping now are on the forfront of these developments. While other's may be hashing up that next FPS, you're pushing the limits of what games can do.

Cheers!

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Guest rtoolooze

Well said Fractux.

And as far as the lotto thing, I have thought the same thing before. That if I could win the lotto, I would definitly give Derek enough money so he could have all the resources availible to implement whatever he could dream up.

I'm just glad to be apart of this great community. Can't wait to meet you all on the battlefield. (or battlespace). Thanks Derek, you definitly the man!

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Guest $iLk

quote:

And as far as the lotto thing, I have thought the same thing before. That if I could win the lotto, I would definitly give Derek enough money so he could have all the resources availible to implement whatever he could dream up.


heh, I wouldn't. I'd just buy my own Battlecruiser...

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Guest rtoolooze

"heh, I wouldn't. I'd just buy my own Battlecruiser..."

I don't know, even if you won the lotto, you might have enough money for an unarmed transport.

Imagine what a real Battlecruiser would cost!

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Guest JuanFermin

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Even most of the advanced features e.g. lobby<->in-game chat are some of the high-end features being implemented.

So we would be able to chat through some sort of instant messenger interface while playing the game?

Would this interface have the ability to add buddies like MSN IM?

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quote:

Originally posted by Fermin:

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Even most of the advanced features e.g. lobby<->in-game chat are some of the high-end features being implemented.

So we would be able to chat through some sort of instant messenger interface while playing the game?

Would this interface have the ability to add buddies like MSN IM?


Eh, that would be TOO cool, but I doubt it. Maybe Derek can see if he can do something with cerulean studios (makers of Trillian, universal messenger)

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Guest JuanFermin

quote:

Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

.... that would be TOO cool, but I doubt it. Maybe Derek can see if he can do something with cerulean studios (makers of Trillian, universal messenger) [/QB]

Though, I hear that Microsoft makes some sort of API to use plug ins for the MSN Instant Messenger or Microsoft Instant Messenger, that would be extremely cool, if we could have in-game chats via an IM interface like that since you can even have voice & video conversations with the XP version of MSN.

COVER MY SIX, I'VE GOT INCOMING!!!

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I've played Darkspace, and as a matter of fact I just ended my sub with them yesterday. Is the mp for BCMgold going to be JUST like that? It was a very good system and had forum boards built into it and all kinds of other stuff. I wouldn't mind using that for BCMgold because you can send people pages in game and whatnot Also keeps track of all kinds of stats and things. I am interested in knowing if it is going to be exactly the same, just with BC stuff in it. Or if it will be customized for BCMG

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I've played tribes and tribes II. I dunno maybe some of you guys just type slowly but I talked almost constantly in those games. I talked to my team mates, and to other team members. I got to know people that I played with over and over again and we really worked as a team most of the time. Maybe we played in two different worlds but I never hada problem with either game.

I've had first hand experiance in Dark Space with what the BC multiplayer front-end is going to be like. (If he chooses to keep it like this) It is awsome and REALLY gives people a chance to know each other out of the game and in the game. I suggest you people check out darkspace too, you can download it and play the demo version free. It would at least let you see what you're getting into.

If the new BC Multiplayer keeps as many stats as DarkSpace does I Will be in heaven Big difference between BC and Darkspace though is that DarkSpace is a MMOG and BCMG and BCG will not be. I seriously hope that BCO isn't like Darkspace because I think the way they made that game is nothing compared to what it could be with a totally in game multiplayer! The chat lobby feels to disconnected from the game itself. I dunno I guess I'm just crazy

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Anyway, saying that mp should only be in space is just plain silly.

I'm certainly no game programmer, and never will be. I have developed software for 14 years and hold and advanced degree, and quite a few certifications. So when I say the following, I do know what I'm talking about.

I have developed software in small chunks, gaining small successes when summed up provide a large success to the overall delivered product. This can easily be applied to business software, much simpler in breadth and scope than game software of the magnitude of BCM.

If it is possible to first develop multiplayer in space for BCM Gold, limited servers running BCM Gold games for newbies and people who just want to compete in space, then gaining experience and success in this area of multiplayer seems logical to me.

BCG however, similiar to FPS mode in BCM compared to 3000ad, will add FPS, tribes style gameplay and open up the interplanetary battles(in the planets atmosphere).

Building on the MP success in BCM Gold, with the problems sure to arise in MP BCM Gold, solving those problems before BCG is release, BCG would then be almost assured success not only within the BCM community, but in "competition" with the other persistent universe games.

BCM Gold would not be persistent, but BCG would, or begin to be persistent, where BCOL(?), the pay-to-play online universe will be fully persistent.

Taking things a step at a time, having small successes, learning from mistakes on the road to success, will ulitimate reward the 3000ad company with long-term success. Too many companies, Digital Anvil which was rescued by Microsoft, as an example, are doomed to fail because they try to accomplish too much in a short period of time and ulimately fall flat on their face. 3000ad doesn't have a sugar daddy like microsoft to break their fall. So having small successes, to me at least, makes sense.

As far as providing free MP upgrade to existing BCM owners, I could care less. I'll buy BCM Gold. The only folkes I feel bad for are those kids with little $$ who bought BCM expecting they would get the MP download. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it, but that would be my only regret to not seeing the free MP download.

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Here is part of a good review of BCM where the reviewer expresses my point exactly. So when you look at a successfull multiplayer experience, it would be worth it to concentrate on space battles and maybe fight on planets from a command post in space. Just a thought....

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/l...?reviewid=69272

quote:

As you might expect with such an ambitious design, some parts work better than others. The game is at its peak during space combat, where you control your hulking capital ship and direct fighters and other units to attack targets. If you're particularly gutsy, you can man a fighter yourself. The planetside combat, on the other hand, pales in comparison to games that focus exclusively on that type of combat (Tribes, for instance). Your best bet is to watch it from a command standpointÔÇöload up a shuttle with marines and send them down to the planet's surface to wipe out an enemy base, then sit back and watch the action unfold from the command chair.

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From the review, I didn't mention this in my previous post, to be fair. So, given this, maybe I am wrong about planetary combat in multiplayer.

quote:

UPSIDE:

An extremely interesting, freeform universe

DOWNSIDE:

Planetary combat won't be that interesting until multiplayer is implemented


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if any multiplayer aspect of the BC series will be like Darkspace, it would be BCO because Darkspace is persistent. With unlimited players, bcm gold servers will have a max limit and wont be persistent.

but darkspace is totally different, its style of play to win, is the taking over of planets and only focus on meager ship to ship engagement, as fun as darkspace is and addicting, it is meager compared to a BCO world.

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Seems I'm late for the poll but it went as I would have basically voted anyway.

As to the voice communications, take a quick look at http://www.battlecom.org/. This is the technology that Microsoft bought to create GameVoice. Just remember that running third party software in conjunction with BC titles is strictly at your own risk.

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Sad to say theres no such thing as UNLIMITED players.

All servers have a limited ammount of space

EQ servers can only handle 2000 players.. anything more and the server will begin to lag

DAoC servers can handle 2500 players..

Im going to make a guess.. but I think SC said that the BCO servers will only handle 1500??? or am I mistaken *for all I know I might've gotten confused by another game*

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A little late to the party (again), I know...

MP is, by and large, the reason I play 'action' related games. While other types (the Master of Orion series, or Civ 3 for example) lend themselves better to single-player play, games like BCM get 'old' quickly even with the best AI (and yours is up there)...

It's the one thing that has never been dilivered yet by anyone (although the fan-organized 'Alliegence Wars' came close to giving this to the old MS Allegiance): combining the MP action of a 'simple' 1st person space game like X-Wing v TIE with the strategy of a simple 'MP space strategy game' like Netrek. The level of detail possible with a BC related MP game (fight over individual systems, instead of 'bases' ala BF42, etc), and the ability to operate something BESIDES a small fighter would create a completely unique MP experience. And due to the nature of this game's player-base, there would be alot less trouble with the miscreants found in BF1942 and Tribes2...

From what I'm reading, BCMG will have the oft-discussed MP mode, being somewhat like an 'expansion' pack for BCM Original... With this being the case, BCM multiplayer becomes an 'I wish it had got there, but now I'll get BCMG for it...' Just as long as BCMG:MP doesn't becaome a promised-but-delayed feature in that title too... That would be very disapointing...

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