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Mandatory Military enlistment


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$ilk enlisted? Kewl

Me?

1987-1996 U.S Army Reserve.

1987 was the year I turned 33.

Boot camp was a blast.

Imagine if you will, a 128 pound, 33 year old man with premature grey hair, in boot camp with a bunch of young pups. Average ages were 18 to 23.

"They called me Dad." Bastards! Funny thing though, I remember a couple of 8 mile marches with full packs and combat gear where 202 pups were looking at Dad's ass the whole way. Number 203 was the guide-on bearer, and he was warned not to let me pass him, under penalty of answering to 4 Drills who had their hands full making the slackers keep up in the back of the column. Nice Death Run for those guys. I think I hurt a few of them. One guy in my platoon was never right in the legs after that.

I digress.

Served six years in the reserves on good ol' Fort Knox, which included support duty during Operation Desert Storm. Our parent unit was sent but S-3 decided it would take too long to get us ready, so we stayed behind. Reserve units always have plenty of openings, and we were no exception. This is usually caused by kids joining the reserves then going active duty soon after boot camp. The young'uns did a lot of growing up in boot.

For all of our up and coming gents who are still in middle or high school...

You can all truly say U.ncle S.am A.in't R.aised M.e Y.et

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Boot camp eh? What branch? I Enlisted in 1991 right after high school, USMC, I went into infantry and later got a change of MOS to the 22nd Expiditionary Unit out of Camp Lejune NC, I have seen a few places that most did not want to see, Served for 8 years in various places, I wish you the best of luck during these trying times, And I hope that the world does not destabilize even more that it already has, And be warned, the US can recall you for up to 4-6 years after you are discharged, I recently recieved a letter in the mail from the DOD(Mass letter to alot of people) Nothing special about it except it says that there is a possibility that I will be recalled for active duty, Well who knows, This is my country, My heritage, My father was a Marine, my grandfather died on Normandy beach, They are why I am a free person today, And I will uphold that honor for my children and my grandchildren, So $ilk, God Bless and God speed, And good luck

And BTW, I loved it

[ 12-04-2001: Message edited by: Sgt Khan ]

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Wasn't quite the way I intended the thread to start out.

Cool stories though. The only thing I went through that even comes close was marching band. Those seniors were tough. Tried to run it close to the military (what I knew about it).

Anyway the question I wanted to pose was should the US (or anyone) have mandatory military enlistment.

Or if our international members have already been through it how they felt about it.

Two years ago my friends hosted (room and board) two 18 year old boys so they could play in a junior league hockey team. One was Canadian who enjoyed hockey. The other also also enjoyed hockey but he was from the Czech Republic and his father sent him here specifically to avoid mandatory military enlistment.

So how do you feel about mandatory military enlistment?

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I dont believe in mandatory.

However, I DO believe that the ancient Romans and Heinlein (SF writer) had the right idea.

If you want citizenship, you must serve. Having citizenship would allow you to persue gov. positions and reduced taxes.

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For one thing if ever the country goes to war for whatever reason, the military would be better prepared. They don't have to waste time in training new conscript. Countries like Thailand and the Swiss are much better prepared than say England (unless it's football).

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I'm here. Won't be leaving until Feb 11. But my feelings on this matter:

Personally I think that people must serve some civic duty for their government (be it postal work, health services, military, etc.) for about 2 years in order to vote. Kind of like Starship Troopers. That would be cool. I don't think it should be mandatory, just would give more incentive to do it. Or at least people who have some contribution to society should be allowed to vote. People who suck off the hind teat of the taxpayers should either get a job or not vote.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that voting is a responsibility to be taken seriously and far too many voters run to the polls screaming gay rights and not worrying about the issues and voting straight Democrat. There should be some sort of Civil requirement.

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The problem is that's being able to vote is not an incentive. The great majority dont give a damn who's in charge, because it takes a HUGE amount of people with the same opinion as you to "get things done your way".

But taxes.. oh ho. That hits home.

Imagine that, any CITIZEN (who has had to serve in order to become a citizen) would not only be able to vote, but would get a significant cut in taxes.

Mo: Hehe, my reasons are : I hate excercise and I hate to have a psycho screaming at me 24/7 for 12 weeks. Thats what school is for.

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Uhhh Tac? What would people be if they were not Citizens? Slaves? Subhuman? That part I don't like. Now special privileges for those who participate in the gov't; any US gov't, In any way (Military, US, Postal, State, County, City, Local) I can agree with.

Voting is a combined right, priviledge, and an onus.

The tax thing I like. Let's say that we still have a 30 year service towards retirement. What say a 2% reduction in taxes every year you serve the gov't. If you complete 30 years service (Standard retirment service I think) you pay 60% less taxes . I like that. Add up all those people and the loss of taxes and I think it would be a pittance compared to the general population. That is not a bad deal. Serve and get far less taxes at the end of your service. Just when it helps the most. Cool

$ilk

quote:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that voting is a responsibility to be taken seriously

Yeah, right.

quote:

voting straight Democrat.

Because their fathers taught them. Same with Republicans.

quote:

There should be some sort of Civil requirement.

As in service to the gov't to vote for the gov't. We would have nothing but a nation of gov't employees.

Backing up

quote:

Or at least people who have some contribution to society should be allowed to vote. People who suck off the hind teat of the taxpayers should either get a job or not vote.

That I can agree with.

Gallion

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I say Bring back the draft!

Uhh, what did i sign up for when I was 17?

quote:

Minimum 2 years military service required

Nope. Not even the two years. Service required. Ughhhh. Bunch of reasons. People who dodge (Bill Clinton? Right?) yeah can them somehow.

But you shouldn't HAVE to serve. We don't need it. The volunteer army is more than adequate and they can pick and choose who they want.

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Tried to enlist. Talked to recruiting officer, scored very high on the test, almoust went through medical, but then backed out when they couldn't guarantee me a job as a pilot. So I said forget it and continued with my civilian flying.

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As for mandatory, I don't think so. I would rather be flying the crapiest planes in civil aviation for 4 years, getting flight hours and doing what I love to do then spend 4 years doing something else in military and hating my life. One of the most major reasons I didn't enlist is that they couldn't 100% assure me that I would be flying in military.

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Charles, you kind of made my point for me, people should take responsibility in making a decision and take care in making it rather than voting for someone they don't know what it stands for.

My idea of a responsibility would be as follows:

Idea #1

Person is born inside the USA - person is a resident of the United States.

Person completes school, etc. Once person is 18 there is no draft card to fill out, but two choices would determine how he live his life:

He can get a job that performs some service to his community, either locally or nationally (i.e. not a fast food job or other minimum wage, but something serious like military, postal service, health care, etc.) for two years, after which they are elevated to the rank of citizen, bestowing the "priviledge" to vote, ( as a side note - did you know that there is no "right" to vote for president according to the constitution>? You have a right to vote for legislators statewide, who then have the ability to vote for electors, who then vote for president. i.e. that's why the popular vote doesn't matter, but is used instead of the legislature to choose electors to make people feel more powerful.) a "priviledge" of government health care, and other priviledges non-citizens wouldn't enjoy.

You could make the choice to live your life as a non-citizen by getting a job that does nothing worthwhile for your country (i.e. fast food, wal-mart, department stores, etc.) and do it for your entire life, never enjoying being able to vote, have to pay for your own health care, and basically have to handle your life in the private sector.

At the same time, government service should be easy to get in to (i.e. if you are disabled you can get an easier position like mail sorter, while if you are in excellent condition, farmer, military, etc.)

You could work out some quirks in that, but it would insure that the responsible would vote, and the irresponsible would continue doing whatever it is that they do and waste their lives working away while their government makes choices without their input.

Idea #2

Even simpler - only people who pay taxes vote. Citizenship is bestowed on a certain income and contribution to the economy. If they are on welfare, are on some government program, are not contributing - let them waste away, but not be allowed to vote for those who would take away their benefits, or bestow them. Of course this won't happen because of liberals, but I can dream.

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Soback, get you about 2 years of college and check back with them and maybe they can guarantee more (unless you already did) Because as a pilot you have to be an officer and recieve 2 years instruction at military flight school.

Thanks for the honor of this thread Charles, and in simplest terms I would say NO to mandatory enlistment. Sorry it's turned into a debate over citizenship and voting...

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Yeah, I know. The officer thing wouldn't be a problem, but the flight school is application/acceptance based. So you could be an officer but you are not guaranteed to be accepted in their flight school, that's why the recruiter couldn't promise me that, he was trying to push me towards something else, but when I kept insisting he would just say we would discuss it a little later and work everything out, so first he was saying let's see if I would score high enough on the practice test, when I did, he said lets see if I would score high enough on the actual test, when I did, he said let's see my paperwork, then after that he gave me the truth about how you get to be a pilot and how it's basically not garanteed and started pushing me towards some other choices so I just decided to continue with my civilian flying. Well, too bad for them, because they wouldn't even have to train me much (in groundschool) because by that time I was already instrument rated private pilot. Anyway, you can only apply for flight school if you are below the age of 25, and the closer to that age you get the slimer your chances so I doubt I would apply later on in life.

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"Uhhh Tac? What would people be if they were not Citizens? Slaves? Subhuman? That part I don't like."

No, just residents. Just like I am now.

"Now special privileges for those who participate in the gov't; any US gov't, In any way (Military, US, Postal, State, County, City, Local) I can agree with."

No. That I disagree with at a certain level. Military, Postal, State, County, City, Local are job positions not open to all the populace. Not to mention that once you start giving priviledges, these people will always start trying to get more and more until it becomes ridiculous and unfair to those that want to but cant get those jobs.

All I say is that those that serve in either military or civil service or community services (or whatever like it, things that help improve the country) for a certain time (like the 4 year military service), get Citizenship, the right to vote and lower taxes to pay each year (lower than the Residents). Perhaps even lower education costs in colleges and universities for citizens would be a good "short term" incentive, as most serving would usually be discharged and head for higher education (hopefully).

If they dont, they dont vote, pay higher taxes and pay regular prices at universities.

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As for your question on manditory enlistment ...

I think it is great that people in the U.S. have a choice, that way we don't waste money on someone who we know is going to be there only two years. Even thought we don't have the draft any more, we still have a large military(Air force around 200,000 active duty).

Anyway I think Russia still has the draft, and China too.

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Sobak, what branch? The USAF has a long standing tradition of making ossifer pilots out of the enlisted types. Also, right now all the branches are hurting for good people to fill the more important positions.

There are a lot of flying jobs that don't put you behind the stick, but do make you a better candidate that joe academy when the seats do open. Also, there are some pretty interesting jobs that will challenge you mentally and leave you with plenty of time to fly your cesna on the weekends.

No branch can guarantee any position. Reason being they don't know if you'll make it through the training. They can't know if you've got what it takes until they put you through the test. But, after you pass they're more than happy to make sure you get a job you want.

Too many unhappy but very talented people have left the mil. in the past. Because of this, they've had to hire people that would've otherwise been working in the "hotel management" job field (a cook).

When I went in in '90 they were in a position to pick and choose. I entered the delayed enlistment and was assured a flying job providing I passed everything else. I wasn't a pilot, but I had the ONLY job in the AF where ossifers drove me to work. I was up in the air for the majority of my time. Temporary duty took me everywhere i wanted. Hell, my AC (pilot) worked it out so that we went TDY at least once a year someplace near a ski resort!

Anyway, all I'm saying is that if you're young and don't already have Daddy's millions or a specific goal in mind, the USAF offers more than just the stick jockey position. But, if that's what you want, I had two co-pilots that were enlisted guys. One worked as a crew chief (mechanic) on a B-52. He completed his bachelor's and went straight on to OCS and a pilot's seat.

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Well, Akira, I checked out all the brances. Air Force, Army, Navy, Marines, I even talked to Coast Guard. None can guarantee, and the other way just takes too long (for example you can only apply for flight academy once a year, and if you don't get in for whatever reason but otherwise eligible you have to wait for another year to roll around to apply again), so that's just a waste of time, and I don't want any other job and fly on weekends. The way I am now, I pay a lot of money (loans, education grants and such) but I am flying almoust 7 days a week and am pretty close to be getting paid to fly instead of paying to fly. So I look it this way, if they can't offer me something I would really love to do and would really contribute then forget it, I wouldn't even want the enlistment bonus or any other money the military would offer me, nor do I want to fly a fighter, I want some nice big fat plane, transport, bomber, tanker, whatever, basically already trained (all they would have to do is re-educate me with military knowledge) and am very stuborn so there's no way I would fail the boot camp or whatever they threw at me. So instead I am doing this the hard way, taking out loans, and basically on my own, but at least I am doing what I dreamed of since I can remember. So in my opinion they lost out, either way for me it's good.

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[RP] Cmdr Jeffery Eu tries to pull all posters back to the topic[/RP]

Here's my 2cents

1. Being a Malaysian, I'm glad that no mandatory enlistment is implemented as I think I won't survive the horror of boot camp, but then I'll never know;

2. Without mandatory enlistment, we'll only get recruits that are interested and willing to do their duty to their country;

3. However we might get misfits of all kinds, this is a true story, back in college, during a literary criticism session discussing about Shakespeare, my lecturer asked this "Would anyone what to be in that century where war was prevalent not to mention the plague" Nearly the entire class said no except for this one idiot who was detached from the Malaysian special forces for further studies, who said yes. When asked why he wanted a war, his answer was that so he could test out to see if all the military skills he learned could help him survive. Guess, what my instant response was?

"With these kind of soldiers around, I would shoot them first in the event of a war as all their gungho attitude would have started the war in the first place"

The morale of the story, even though I don't face it, I would prefer a mandatory enlistment so that a larger population would have a chance to serve in the military instead of getting misfits like the above example.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Jeffery Eu ]

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