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Bush grabs new powers for FBI


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I'm not too surprised, the government has wanted these powers for a long time, even though they go against everything that the constitution stands for.

I don't trust any administration with this type of power in their grasp, and I doubt the Supreme court is going to do a thing about it.

The Bush administration may not abuse it, but can you imagine a Hillary Clinton administration with this kind of power? That is TRULY frightening.

Scary stuff, if you don't want others to have this kind of power, you don;t give ANYONE this kind of power.

What the hell happened to the bill of rights? it is slowly being eaten away and will continue to be eaten away until it's gone. Then we might as well just burn the constitution, because it won't mean anything, like it means anything now....

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I don't usnderstand why the gov't needs this bill anyway, at the least just get the judge to give you access like any normal case and add a disclaimer that the company shouldn't reveal the fact the investigation took place as a clause.

There is no way this is needed for national security.

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quote:

The Bush administration may not abuse it, but can you imagine a Hillary Clinton administration with this kind of power?

Why this statement doesn't suprise me coming from you?

Seriously, I think democrats and republicans will/would/already did abuse their power as much, but to think that republican will not abuse any power, but democrats will .. is rubbish.

quote:

I don't trust any administration with this type of power in their grasp

...except republicans?

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quote:

Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

quote:

The Bush administration may not abuse it, but can you imagine a Hillary Clinton administration with this kind of power?

Why this statement doesn't suprise me coming from you?

Seriously, I think democrats and republicans will/would/already did abuse their power as much, but to think that republican will not abuse any power, but democrats will .. is rubbish.

quote:

I don't trust any administration with this type of power in their grasp

...except republicans?


As I said, I do not trust ANY administration with this kind of power, I trust Bush to be at least somewhat discerning as far as how and when this will get used, but the Clintons pulled over 900 FBI files on congresscritters and Senators during their administration. THAT is illegal as hell, and they should have been punished BIG time for it, but if the Clintons are willing to do such things when it's illegal, can you imagine what they would do if it were legal?

I can, and it is downright frightening.

I have numerous examples of illegal crap that the Clintons pulled, and yet to see anything like that from the Bush administration, and not from lack of trying by the press.

I trust this administration far more then I did the old one, and if Hillary is EVER elected president, the constitution will be TOTALLY shredded, and that's a fact.

This kind of power cannot be trusted to anyone, and now that this can of worms has been opened, any administration after it will use it to the max. And if that is a Clinton administration, we're all screwed.

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Fun stuff. But its sure scary to think of the long term consequences. This needs to be revoked asap and I would be concerned as to why the current administration thinks this is a good thing. I have been supportive of the Bush administration on most points so far but little by little things like this make me more concerned. Id like a "fireside chat" to find out the motivations and intended purposes of such a thing. To see what reasoning is behind it.

edit: oh and on a side note its nice to see SC in a light hearted mood. Not often its very apparent. Must be that upcoming vacation. (Or is it over already?)

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Great, this is exactly what I got involved in today in Government... oh well time for me to get involved (good? bad? who knows.. you be the judge)

I'll reframe from using intense curse words. Since Remo would/will skin me alive if I do

Ep5??

Are you saying that Republicans are worse than Democrats? If so then you and I are going to have a serious problem here

Democrats are already RUINING this nation they can't keep there felthy mouth shut. They have controls over our schools.. you ever wonder why we graduate lame idiots? Thats people the teachers are not allowed to teacher what THEY want what THEY feel the students need to know

EP5 did you know that it was because of the Democrated rule that the Vietnam war started?

Yep, thats one thing you won't learn in school. South Korea asked use for help so we sent in Advisors, well the republicans said to stay out of it since IT WAS NONE OF OUR BUSSINESS. But the democrats didn't listen (like always) and it just built up and built up.

Lemme tell you this EP5, if we had a Republican in office then. Then the chances of the Vietnam war starting would only be possibly 10%, but when that democrat was in office... 90% its the sad truth

A republican will not abuse his/her power, a democrat WILL cause all democrats are, are power hungry SOBs

Jaguar already said this and he is damn right (damn dude are you a government teacher or something?), the Constitution doesn't mean SHIT to the democrats and its becoming increasly obvious that NO ONE cares! Only the people like Jaguar, myself and several hundred others seem to know what will occur if Hillery gets into office or...... Dean

I to, however, don't trust any administration because every administration has LIED to get into office... So far bush has kept his promises (some... but thats better than what that TRAITOR Clinton did... anyone got a Quantom Sniper Rifle?)

Clinton? Don't even start with me about that raising SOB, he is a traitor and deserves to be shot on sight thanks to him this country almost went down hill

quote:

Originally posted by Commander Elio Jason:

that's scary stuff. i think we're taking this war on terror a tiny bit overboard.

We are, but where already involved and backing out would show the world that the US can be pushed around and bullied.. granted I don't like this war (since I already lost 4 friends) but I'll support it none the less

Ok, I return the floor to you Jaguer.. hope I didn't make a fool out of myself

<---- anyone got an extra large?

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

What the hell happened to the bill of rights? it is slowly being eaten away and will continue to be eaten away until it's gone. Then we might as well just burn the constitution, because it won't mean anything, like it means anything now....

Because people are abusing our right to interpret it. We can only take interpretation so far before it becomes out of control like it has now.

Sorry, while I liked some of what Clinton did as a president (Don't bleedin flame me already), I do have to agree, those files he pulled, scared the hell out of me.

I didn't like Clinton's Gestapo and I sure as hell don't like Bush's Gestapo.

This is for the war against terrorism? Bullshit. While yes, the patriot act has been used to fight terrorism, its been abused more than any law I know of.

Like I said, this is bullshit; Welcome to the fall of the American Empire people, we've gotten ourself into this shit and we had better get ourselves out of it. America was created on the grounds of Civil Liberties; looks like those don't matter anymore.

Wow Jag, pigs must be flying, I'm agreeing with you.

Oh, and people this has nothing to do with Democrats or Republicans, it has to do with Congressmen kissing Bush's buttocks. Both parties don't give a flying (place your own bad word here) about the Constitution anymore.

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The constitution went out the window several years ago. Its sad really

Thats why in the 2004 election, my father told me that if bush is not re'elected he's moving out of the US.. most likely to Japan or England

Whats sad, is that they won't teach the constitution to students in school anymore. (But whats funny, is that my Government teacher said "Screw you" to the school district and IS teaching us)

Everything involves politics and politics is a nasty subject to get involved in.. it can often ruin a person and improve others

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I think John Ashcroft is one of the scariest people out there. Given a little more time, Ashcroft and the rest of the Bush administration will have turned the U.S. into a police state no different from the three superpowers in George Orwell's 1984. (Awesome book, if you haven't read it yet. Scary seeing the parallels with our society, but a good book.)

My favorite Ben Franklin quote goes like this: "Those who trade some of their freedom for a little security deserve neither freedom nor security." And that is exactly what we are heading towards. In our paranoia, our panic to "Kill the terrorists, Kill the terrorists," we are letting those in power destroy the country they're trying to protect. One of the scariest provisions in the Patriot Act (the very name, "The Patriot Act," is sooo obviously a smokescreen. More atrocities have been committed in the name of someone's country or their god than for any other reason.) is "Sneak and Peek." It allows law enforcement agents at any level (FBI, local police, anyone) to go into anyone's home without a search warrant and remove any items they want, all without even notifying that person! And the most outrageous of all is a recent bill whose name I can't remember. It allows anyone to give any information to the Department of Homeland Security (I wish they wouldn't call it the "Homeland." It makes me feel like I'm living in Nazi Germany in the late '30's.). That information will be sealed from the public, being declared a "National Secret." Well, if the right (actually the wrong) person comes along, that could be pretty damn scary. They could arrest you, hold you in prison indefinitely without ever charging you, and then give all the records to the Department of Homeland Securtity, have them declared as "National Secrets," and no one would be able to prove otherwise. Now where is the ACLU when we really need them?

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Yes Kalshion you have made a fool of yourself. If you truly beleive that one party has a moral highground the other one lacks you are dangerously mistaken. As a liberal I have learned a few things reading a lot posts in this community. One of which being that there is no room for growth in a closed mind. I feel bad that your dad would leave the country he loves if the election doesnt go his way, but if that is the limit of his paitriotism I wish him a safe trip.

I agree that Clinton was personally immoral, lied to his country and should not be let off easily, but he is no more a traitor than Nixon or Bush is. Bush amd his administration mislead people into beliveing a direct link existed between Saddam and 9-11. This is a lie. I understand why he did it and beleve he did what he did not because he is EVIL , but because in his mind it was the right thing to do for his country. Nixon subverted the political system because he was so convinced that if he wasnt reelected the country would be at great risk under democratic control. I dont think he was evil either, just misguided.

This demonizing of the opposition will destroy our country. We both do it and it is dangerous. Our Constitution has stood up to challenges before and will always do so if we all remember we are all AMERICANS! Clinton doesnt have 666 on his head and niether does Bush.

I honestly used to think most conservatives were racist. I used to beleieve that was the litmus test for being one. Then I got the chance to debate and exchange ideas with people in this thread and came to realize how wrong I was. I bet Jaguar and I have only agreed on something one or two times, but though I may never meet him I consider him a friend. I never got the opportunity to discuss these things before because I was too busy demonizing the opposition to hear the other persons point of view. When Bush won(?) the election I felt as your dad did. But instead I went out the next year and worked on the campaign of a local candidate. That felt good and reaffirmed my belief that with all its faults this is my country and home and for me there is no place better.

Son you should read some history. Read about Theodore and Franklin Roosevelt they were democrats and you might learn something as I did reading about my own personal hero Dwight D Eisenhower a (gasp) Republican. Read Kennedy's Profiles in Courage which is not limited to one party or the other. Then get back to me.

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quote:


Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

SC if you are gonna start these things and sit back at least share the beer, Let me know what brand and i'll draw a pint for myself.


hehe, since I don't drink beer or strong alchohol, its actually a keg of cider

quote:


Originally posted by Masefield:

Oh sweet -- Jag and Ep 5 in a political debate!! Got room at the keg SC?


Yep, step right up.

OK, who last had the munchies. Please pass the bag, I'm sick of pop corn.

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quote:

I agree that Clinton was personally immoral, lied to his country and should not be let off easily, but he is no more a traitor than Nixon or Bush is. Bush amd his administration mislead people into beliveing a direct link existed between Saddam and 9-11. This is a lie. I understand why he did it and beleve he did what he did not because he is EVIL , but because in his mind it was the right thing to do for his country. Nixon subverted the political system because he was so convinced that if he wasnt reelected the country would be at great risk under democratic control. I dont think he was evil either, just misguided.

This demonizing of the opposition will destroy our country. We both do it and it is dangerous. Our Constitution has stood up to challenges before and will always do so if we all remember we are all AMERICANS! Clinton doesnt have 666 on his head and niether does Bush.


Couldn't have said it better myself

I didn't care for Clinton, don't care for Democrats, and I undestand that nobody really cares what I care for

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quote:

Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

Bush amd his administration mislead people into beliveing a direct link existed between Saddam and 9-11.

This is just what I would expect a liberal to say

Intelligence told bush that there was a direct link.. he beleaved the intelligence so it wasn't his fault that the so-called 'direct link' wasn't true

You have to blame the intelligence here Race not bush

Althought what bush is about to do for the hispanics, I'm about ready to vote against him

Will he win the election? Well lemme say this, if what bush does for the hispanics PASSES then he'll LOSE the election

Race, this country is already under a democratic rule.. AND WHERE GOING DOWN HILL

I suspect that with in the next 10 years.. the US will cease to exist.. why? Cause the democrats don't give a shit about the constitution and they don't care about the people

The only ones who care about the people are the republicans*most of the time*. I have yet to see the democrats do a thing for the people, all they've done is ruin the school system. And are just now FORCING students (including myself btw) to learn the hispanic language. Do I want to learn the hispanic language? NO! Why? Cause I don't want to... Im more interested in learning about the Japanses than the hispanics

btw,if dean get's into office.. then thats it for the US, we'll be dead then.

Edit: Gah! to many edits and to many spell errors

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Ignorance is bliss, but the truth is gold.

Think about it Kal, research what you've said a little more.

Here's a starting point. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3056626.stm Read it.

You have to understand, both the republicans and democrats are at fault here.

What will cause the United States to fall is if people don't stop the cutthroat rivalry that politics has erupted into. Each party stands for their own opinions, most people drift between the two.

Tell me 5 good things that the Republicans SPECIFICALLY stand for (And this goes for Kalshion only guys, I want to see if he can do this) and I'll do 5 that the Democrats stand for as well after you do that. Then we'll compare.

Oh, and I want EVIDENCE that they stand for that Kalshion. Prove it to me.

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Weegee, don't single me out.. doing so is arrogant, immature and shows a lack of respect for another persons beliefs and opinions

Granted its the peoples fault for electing idiots to take office.

BBC? Im sorry but the only thing I watch is foxnews

As for your questions

All I know is this, its different for each republican. But as far as I know

Less Intervention from the government

Lower Taxes

Improved Education(private schools mainly)

Thats what I beleave a republican is.. now I'd like to see what you think a democrat is and don't go off and say that all they want is to help the country, cause I have YET to see them do just that

quote:

George Bush sets out a major policy overhaul, giving illegal workers more rights - a move aimed mainly at Hispanics.

Its stuff like this that will kill a president. Yes I disagree with what he's doing.. Why the HELL should we give ILLEGAL workers a policy? I mean arn't they here Illegaly? and isn't it against the law to live here Illegaly and work Illegaly? Man.. some law... its never reinforced

I may be going to far here, but telling by the way you've singled me out Gee. I can make a guess that you support what bush is doing, now I could very well be wrong. Am I? I certainly hope so, cause if that bill passes then that'll be ANOTHER thing that will become the down fall of the US

You want evidence? No can do.. why? Cause its based off my beliefs and from what I have observed

Now, lets see what you have to say. You told me to say stuff, granted im still a student in high school and still learning but im willing to learn more.

<---- Back to my front row seat, this is getting interesting. Now I know how political debates are while online, btw what happened to Jaguar?

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Sorry to post again SC

Ya know WeeGee, now that I've given it some thought

Why are we comparing? I mean if you and I have different views on what a Republican and a Democrate are then isn't it kinda POINTLESS? You will most likely discredit what I said and I'll most likely discredit what you say.. So tell me why where comparing if it won't solve a thing?

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