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Iraq, and the things the press isn't telling you


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You know that I disagree with Bush on some of his Domestic spending, Prescription drug policy and education, but I do NOT disagree with him on Iraq.

Here is what is happening in Iraq that the press isn't telling us about.

I'm impressed!!

quote:

Since May 1...... The things the press never seems to say...

Since President Bush declared an end to major combat on May 1...

... the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty.

... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens.

... nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning.

... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent.

... on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the prewar average.

... all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools.

... by October 1, Coalition forces had rehab-ed over 1,500 schools -500 more than scheduled.

... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries.

... all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open.

... doctors salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam.

... pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons.

... the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccination doses to Iraq's children.

... a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals which now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women.

... we have restored over three-quarters of prewar telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production.

... there are 4,900 full-service telephone connections. We expect 50,000 by year-end.

... the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns.

... 95 percent of all prewar bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily.

... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses.

... the central bank is fully independent.

... Iraq has one of the worlds most growth-oriented investment and banking laws.

... Iraq has a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years.

... satellite TV dishes are legal.

... foreign journalists aren't on 10-day visas paying mandatory and extortionate fees to the Ministry of Information for minders and other government spies.

... there is no Ministry of Information.

... there are more than 170 newspapers.

... you can buy satellite dishes on what seems like every street corner.

... foreign journalists (and everyone else) are free to come and go.

... a nation that had not one single element - legislative, judicial or executive - of a representative government, now does.

... in Baghdad alone residents have selected 88 advisory councils. Baghdad's first democratic transfer of power in 35 years happened when the city council elected its new chairman.

... today in Iraq chambers of commerce, business, school and professional organizations are electing their leaders all over the country.

... 25 ministers, selected by the most representative governing body in Iraq's history, run the day-to-day business of government.

... the Iraqi government regularly participates in international events.

... Since July the Iraqi government has been represented in over two dozen international meetings, including those of the UN General Assembly, the Arab League, the World Bank and IMF and, today, the Islamic Conference Summit.

... The Ministry of Foreign Affairs today announced that it is reopening over 30 Iraqi embassies around the world.

... Shia religious festivals that were all but banned, aren't.

... for the first time in 35 years, in Karbala thousands of Shiites celebrate the pilgrimage of the 12th Imam.

... the Coalition has completed over 13,000 reconstruction projects, large and small, as part of a strategic plan for the reconstruction of Iraq.

... Uday and Queasy are dead - and no longer feeding innocent Iraqis to the zoo lions, raping the young daughters of local leaders to force cooperation, torturing Iraq's soccer players for losing games, or murdering critics.

... children aren't imprisoned or murdered when their parents disagree with the government.

... political opponents aren't imprisoned, tortured, executed, maimed, or are forced to watch their families die for disagreeing with Saddam.

... millions of longsuffering Iraqis no longer live in perpetual terror.

.. Saudis will hold municipal elections.

... Qatar is reforming education to give more choices to parents.

... Jordan is accelerating market economic reforms.

... the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded for the first time to an Iranian, a Muslim woman who speaks out with courage for human rights, for democracy and for peace.

... Saddam is gone.

... Iraq is free.

... President Bush has not faltered or failed.

... Yet, little or none of this information has been published by the Press corps that prides itself on bring you all the news that's important.

Iraq under US lead control has come further in six months than Germany did in seven years or Japan did in nine years following WWII. Military deaths from fanatic Nazi's, and Japanese numbered in the thousands and continued for over three years after WWII victory was declared.

It took the US over four months to clear away the twin tower debris, let alone attempt to build something else in its place.

Now, take into account that almost every Democrat leader in the House and Senate has fought President Bush on every aspect of his handling of this country's war and the post-war reconstruction; and that they continue to claim on a daily basis on national TV that this conflict has been a failure.

Taking everything into consideration, even the unfortunate loss of our sons and daughters in this conflict, do you think anyone else in the world could have accomplished as much as the United States and the Bush administration in so short a period of time?

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Way to go Jaguar!

You took the words right out of my mouth. I think the situation in Iraq is really anywhere near as bad as the media would have us think. People think the media always tells the unbiased truth, but the media has just as strong a political agenda as anybody else, and there agenda is to get Bush out of office.

Our casualties have averaged about, what, maybe 10-15 a week? Correct me if that figure is wrong. But, now lets think about how many people are murdered in the US every day. How many car wrecks are there and how many die in those every day? My point should be obvious. The liberals (and by the way, I do not consider myself a Republican either; like Jag, I agree with Bush on Iraq but not on some other issues) keep talking about how we're taking unacceptable losses in Iraq. Our casualties over there are so small, compared to all the good we're doing! Read Jaguar's list above again, liberals. Is a few deaths a day worth all that? I think so.

Here's another way of looking at it. How many people would have died in one year under Saddam's rule? How many of his opponents would he have dragged into an interrogation chamber and poked their children's eyes out in front of them to get a confession? Still think this war isn't worth it?

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Nice post. It would seem that the more the media and democrats have tried to bash bush, something happens that make them conveniently "forget" the issue they were bashing him for and try to belittle the new accomplishment.

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Unfortunately for all of us, the press and news medias are money driven organizations.

If they aren't reporting dirt, doom, and gloom. Their ratings will suffer followed closely by their advertising monies. The senators and congress sheople only sling mud to improve their own images. bcause like it or not Mr Bush is making them look like fools again and again.

They say that Money is the root of all evil.

Well boys and girls this country has grown an Oak in that regard.

Being former military myself, I knew for a fact that our men and women in uniform would get any job they were tasked with, done and done well!

Sidenote: We probably lose more soldiers to training accidents here, than we are losing in Iraq & Ashcanistan.

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To be honest, I work for this "media"

I work for the school news program and there are things where NOT allowed to print and not allowed to broadcast, that includs bush's accomplishments which, btw, we air anyway when the teacher isn't here

CNN and several other news agencys are all ANTI-AMERICAN, there anti-american because they report only the wrong stuff and they also report things that are completly military related. That includs WHERE our troops are, HOW there doing

CNN is one prime example of an Anti-American news agency, they only reported the bad stuff and in some case's LIED about other stuff. Thats the reason I don't watch CNN anymore, and thats why they earned the name Communist News Network cause they can never tell the truth

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quote:

Originally posted by Kalshion:

To be honest, I work for this "media"

I work for the school news program and there are things where NOT allowed to print and not allowed to broadcast, that includs bush's accomplishments which, btw, we air anyway when the teacher isn't here

CNN and several other news agencys are all ANTI-AMERICAN, there anti-american because they report only the wrong stuff and they also report things that are completly military related. That includs WHERE our troops are, HOW there doing

CNN is one prime example of an Anti-American news agency, they only reported the bad stuff and in some case's LIED about other stuff. Thats the reason I don't watch CNN anymore, and thats why they earned the name Communist News Network cause they can never tell the truth

LMAO!!!

Although the first part about CNN is hardly funny. But Communist News Network!

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quote:

If they aren't reporting dirt, doom, and gloom. Their ratings will suffer followed closely by their advertising monies.

Maybe that's because in the past generation we've been spoon-fed nothing but dirt, doom, and gloom and have developed a taste for it. I don't watch any of the networks because of this... except for Fox occasionally - and that's because Fox actually reports on the good stuff some of the time.

I don't care to tune into propaganda.

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Fox is lying to you. Do you think you should get your information from only one source? How about researching all that is available to you and then making a decision? If you just want to be happy all the time, then just watch Fox and listen to Rush and Sean. If you want to learn more about what's going on out there, then listen to all sides. I listen to Sean and Rush and occasionally tune into FOX. I feel that in that way, I am not missing anything.

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quote:


Originally posted by El Che:

Fox is lying to you. Do you think you should get your information from only one source? How about researching all that is available to you and then making a decision? If you just want to be happy all the time, then just watch Fox and listen to Rush and Sean. If you want to learn more about what's going on out there, then listen to all sides. I listen to Sean and Rush and occasionally tune into FOX. I feel that in that way, I am not missing anything.


Do you have proof they are lying to you, as far as I can tell that is just a statement of opinion with no proof to back it up. In my estimation I've found that Fox tends not to be as liberal as the other providers and nicely balances out the total trash talk from CNN.

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quote:

Originally posted by El Che:

Fox is lying to you. Do you think you should get your information from only one source? How about researching all that is available to you and then making a decision? If you just want to be happy all the time, then just watch Fox and listen to Rush and Sean. If you want to learn more about what's going on out there, then listen to all sides. I listen to Sean and Rush and occasionally tune into FOX. I feel that in that way, I am not missing anything.

Lying to me?

Give me a break, Fox is one of the more reliable news sources there is.

They have a conservative bent, that is for certain, but they at least attempt to give all sides to an issue instead of trying to just give the liberal one.

That is the main reason that they are #1, because they do their best to give the information and let you make a decision, instead of CNN giving you the opinion they think you should have.

Lying to me, give me a flipping break....

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Kalshion,

It looks like the producers at CNN read your post of 13 January.

quote:

from LOU DOBBS TONIGHT

DOBBS: The past 24 hours in Iraq have been auspicious, noteworthy, no reports of American casualties or deaths over the past 24 hours. A new Iraqi currency was introduced today. And there were large demonstrations by thousands and thousands of Iraqis. And those demonstrations were peaceful.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS (voice-over): Tens of thousands of people today demonstrated in Basra. They were calling upon Paul Bremer to old early elections. Both the Iraqi demonstrations and the notion of elections are remarkable evidence that Iraqis are beginning to embrace the idea of democracy.

TOM DONNELLY, AMERICAN ENTERPRISE INSTITUTE: I think it's a very good sign. It's a desire on the part of Iraqis to establish their own government, to run their own lives. And, in particular, it's a genuine democratic impulse.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: After three decades of brutality and oppression, Iraqis are slowly taking control of their circumstances. Some two dozen Iraqi Cabinet ministers now contribute leadership on a day-to-day basis to the business of the government.

DOBBS: Huge challenges still face the Iraqis and the coalition. But there are important signs of progress.

Today, cell phone service is available and a new Iraqi dinar is in circulation, washed clean of signs of the old regime; 42 of the 55 most-wanted Iraqis have been captured, killed or have turned themselves in. Attacks against coalition forces have declined by 50 percent since November. Weapons, explosives and ammunition have been seized or turned in by the truckload.

Iraqi security force now number more than 200,000, as the newly freed citizens train to provide their own public safety. Great strides have also been made in education. Bill Evers just returned from five months in Iraq, trying to help revive the education system.

BILL EVERS, HOOVER INSTITUTION: Children are going to school with a brighter sense that their achievements, rather than their political fate in the hands of a dictatorship, will shape their future. And so achievement means much more to them than it could in the previous situation.

DOBBS: Nearly six million Iraqi children are now in school and their teachers are being paid at least five times their salary that they received under Saddam Hussein.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DOBBS: And turning now to "Grange On Point."

A question that goes to the heart of the Pentagon's war strategy: Was the war in Iraq a distraction from the global conflict with al Qaeda and radical Islamist terrorists? That critical question was posed this week by Dr. Jeffrey Record, a visiting professor at the Army War College. Dr. Record said the strain of fighting two wars has pushed the Army almost to the breaking point.

Joining me now, General David Grange.

General, let's start out with the basic question. Was the war a detour?

RETIRED BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I don't think it was a detour. I think the war was necessary.

Containment was only partially working. You were dealing with a regime that totally ignored U.N. mandates, supported terrorism by giving rewards for suicide bombers. But none of these states work by themselves. They work in partnership with other bad guys. And it was I think inevitable. Now, is it a distraction? Well, you have got to be able to do more than one thing at once. You have to think geometrically. You have to handle several contingencies. You can't take a linear, lockstep pace in this situation.

DOBBS: As you and I have discussed here quite often over the course of this past year, the U.S. military is indeed under tremendous strain. The commitment on the part of our men and women in uniform is remarkable, because of the missions they have. Is it your judgment that more still needs to be done? Do you subscribe or agree with Dr. Record's views about the strain on the military?

GRANGE: I think there's tremendous strain right now, especially on the ground forces, and in particular the Army, because they are carrying the heavy pack on their back in this commitment, especially on security and support operations and the need for boots on the ground around the world. So it is strained.

It's just enough, I think, right now. But the problem is, the challenge is sustainment, sustainment for the long term, to have a strategy where you could continue with operations on homeland defense, Iraq, Afghanistan, and the war against terrorists. That's a long-term commitment.

DOBBS: And it is a daunting commitment, by any standard.

Is it your judgment as we begin this new year that the U.S. military will be successful in a reasonably orderly fashion in both the global war against radical Islamist terror, succeed in Afghanistan and Iraq to the point that casualties will be as light as they possibly could be?

GRANGE: I think that the military will be successful. I have no doubt about that. What you said earlier. It's a magnificent force. It is overstretched, it's overcommitted and the argument about, well, you know, it's a spike right now. We don't need more forces. That may be the case, what if the spike doesn't go down. You have to prepare now for the future. For the next conflict, which is sure to come.

This is not the only thing the United States is going to be involved with. The strategic enemy thinkers, the terrorist groups want a catastrophic event this year. They want to continue the spike for a long term. I believe we have to look at the long term and build the force not only for tomorrow but well into the future.

DOBBS: General David Grange, as always, thank you.


Good job. Guess it's 'cause you're in the business.

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well since you seem to think it was your job and your business to do all this in Iraq, why not any other countries facing the same problem?

and please don't tell me about Iraq and Saddam...just answer the question why not all the other countries... don't stop in Iraq, don't say we did Iraq, someone else can do another country, utilize the same principles and ethics with which you invaded Iraq and invade...Cuba?

Invade...Zimbabwe? oh but they don't have weapons of mass destruction...or do they? did Iraq?

but what I say could never matter anyway, especially to you, your first thought would be what does someone from a small island no more than a dot on the map know...do island's have t.v's or internet, do they know what cable news is? do they know how powerful our navy is, do they know we could invade them and take them over and make them do our bidding? don't tell me you've never had those thoughts...

that's the first thing spewed from American's mouth when someone from any "insignificant country" says anything...

but I disgress, trying to solve the worlds problems, or what you pereive the world's problems are (or where they are) is a noble thing. And I admire that about the American culture, freedom...but like you trying to solve all the world's problems; is as futile as me trying to solve all the crime in my country, it can't be done...and in the end you have to accept it, if one were to agonize over the suffering of people in distant lands...africa, parts of asia, just to name a few, how could one EVER sleep again at night? who really could?

so you know what? in order to live your own life and your day to day activities, these problems are forgotten or placed far at the back of the mind, and you have to put trust, reliance, hope and faith if you will, in the people living in those countries who DO HAVE the ability make a difference there, and change things, and these people have to know and realise they can't depend on anyone else for help, to get their goals accomplished...sure they welcome help, but they shouldn't have to first have it, to try.

people have to help themselves and show a willingness to do so first at least, then they can be helped by others.

people might wonder where all this came from? from me? I never touch these subjects, but I read your first post, and even though by tomorrow, or perhaps in the next hour the emotional response it provoked in me will be gone and the memory of it faded, I write this while I still have that feeling...and tomorrow I'll probably come back here and probably will feel a little stupid for having written it, because it's pointless, my feelings are pointless, bringing them to you is pointless...accomplishes nothing, except to serve me notice that they are still there and I that I have not turned into an emotional robot yet...

this seemingly endless cycle of thought, led me for a long time down a lonely road...where because I was so angered, frustrated and saddened by my inability to help everyone, to know what everyone in the world was going through, to be able to do something about it, I almost gave up.

Then someone helped me, and made me realise, while my help couldn't reach a grand scale, I could still reach a small portion in my own country and that other countries had other people like me, who thought like I did, and that would be enough for them, and that was enough me.

every now and then that nagging feeling returns and I fight hard to keep it away.

so I admire your country for what you are doing, but why Iraq and why stop there?

My question goes to show that while you did what you did, to what end and to satisfy who's motives...because to believe the leaders did it just to help Iraqi people....really shame on who believes that....that your SOLDIERS believe that's the reason...yes and most of them are sincere in their efforts...

peace

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

well since you seem to think it was your job and your business to do all this in Iraq, why not any other countries facing the same problem?


Give us time to breath with Iraq and Afghanistan Still forming their democratic goverments were streched a bit thin. Once were finished there will move on to the next one never fear. (j/k)

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quote:

Originally posted by Cruis.In:

well since you seem to think it was your job and your business to do all this in Iraq, why not any other countries facing the same problem?

and please don't tell me about Iraq and Saddam...just answer the question why not all the other countries... don't stop in Iraq, don't say we did Iraq, someone else can do another country, utilize the same principles and ethics with which you invaded Iraq and invade...Cuba?

Invade...Zimbabwe? oh but they don't have weapons of mass destruction...or do they? did Iraq?

but what I say could never matter anyway, especially to you, your first thought would be what does someone from a small island no more than a dot on the map know...do island's have t.v's or internet, do they know what cable news is? do they know how powerful our navy is, do they know we could invade them and take them over and make them do our bidding? don't tell me you've never had those thoughts...

that's the first thing spewed from American's mouth when someone from any "insignificant country" says anything...

but I disgress, trying to solve the worlds problems, or what you pereive the world's problems are (or where they are) is a noble thing. And I admire that about the American culture, freedom...but like you trying to solve all the world's problems; is as futile as me trying to solve all the crime in my country, it can't be done...and in the end you have to accept it, if one were to agonize over the suffering of people in distant lands...africa, parts of asia, just to name a few, how could one EVER sleep again at night? who really could?

so you know what? in order to live your own life and your day to day activities, these problems are forgotten or placed far at the back of the mind, and you have to put trust, reliance, hope and faith if you will, in the people living in those countries who DO HAVE the ability make a difference there, and change things, and these people have to know and realise they can't depend on anyone else for help, to get their goals accomplished...sure they welcome help, but they shouldn't have to first have it, to try.

people have to help themselves and show a willingness to do so first at least, then they can be helped by others.

people might wonder where all this came from? from me? I never touch these subjects, but I read your first post, and even though by tomorrow, or perhaps in the next hour the emotional response it provoked in me will be gone and the memory of it faded, I write this while I still have that feeling...and tomorrow I'll probably come back here and probably will feel a little stupid for having written it, because it's pointless, my feelings are pointless, bringing them to you is pointless...accomplishes nothing, except to serve me notice that they are still there and I that I have not turned into an emotional robot yet...

this seemingly endless cycle of thought, led me for a long time down a lonely road...where because I was so angered, frustrated and saddened by my inability to help everyone, to know what everyone in the world was going through, to be able to do something about it, I almost gave up.

Then someone helped me, and made me realise, while my help couldn't reach a grand scale, I could still reach a small portion in my own country and that other countries had other people like me, who thought like I did, and that would be enough for them, and that was enough me.

every now and then that nagging feeling returns and I fight hard to keep it away.

so I admire your country for what you are doing, but why Iraq and why stop there?

My question goes to show that while you did what you did, to what end and to satisfy who's motives...because to believe the leaders did it just to help Iraqi people....really shame on who believes that....that your SOLDIERS believe that's the reason...yes and most of them are sincere in their efforts...

peace


Whoa, now that was heavy duty, wasn't it?

Let me tell you the reasons that we went into Iraq.

A: Saddam and his search for WMD's, he had them, we stopped him and are going to find them. They do exist.

B: His support of terrorism around the world. Paying Palestinian homicide bombers 10K a piece to their families when they blew themselves up, call it Saddams Homicide bombers life Insurance fund, ALL GONE!!! And homicide bombings have gone way down.

C: His support of Al Quaeda, yeah, yeah, he didn't have anything in common with them Yadda, yadda, Yadda, no, he just allowed them to use his country as a base for operations, training etc, he also helped finance them. Sorry folks, but say no to that as much as you want, but the connections are there.

D: His absolute refusal to abide by the ceasefire plan put into place by the UN, the war was NEVER over, it was a ceasefire, we just finally now finished it.

And last but not least, because of all of the above, the Iraqi people now get all of the above.

SO, if a little tinpot country wants the US to come in and take care of it's situation, it needs A: A crazy dictator who has used and continues to aquire WMD's.

B: Invades another country, and then is pushed out and signs a cease fire.

C: Tells the UN to screw off and violates that same cease fire.

D: Helps finance and organize terrorist organizations.

And E: Those terrorist organizations have a direct threat of some sort to the US.

We did not go into Iraq for the heck of it, there were numerous reasons, which any one would have caused ANY other country to go in ALL guns blazing, but all added together, made the US HAVE to handle the situation.

The Iraqi people just got lucky, the cards came up with jokers, so we had to take care of it.

Otherwise, the Iraqi people would still be putting up with a tinpot dictator who raped his women citizens, hung his citizens children in front of them etc.

He blew it with his visions of grandeur and revenge, and the US finally was forced to take care of him because he had become a direct threat to our security.

Become a direct threat to the US, and we will invade and then rebuild your country, because we have guilty concsiences, if we go in and destroy your country because your leadership caused us to, we feel that it is our obligation to rebuild for you and get you going on a fresh start.

We are not empire builders and never have been, and hopefully never will be.

Iraq will be turned back over to it's people, and if they feel that we are now their friends and sell us their oil cheap, well, hurray for our side.

We do not invade another country lightly, and never will. We just want to be left alone in peace, but if you make our life miserable, we will end yours.

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Once again, Jag, you said it for me.

A side note on the WMD: what is the big mystery??? Watch The News Hour with Jim Lehrer on PBS. They had several Brigadier Generals on a few months ago that had solid evidence that most of the WMD have been shipped over to Syria. Why has nobody realized this? Saddam wasn't stupid enough to leave his nukes in Iraq, sooner or later we would have found them, but move them to Syria and we can't follow (unless we decide to invade them next).

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yeah nice post.

but I believe other countries in the middle east fit your criteria for the invasion of iraq...

or most of it.

I worry too much, I worry if America spreads itself thin, and they get ousted then who would be the world's police so to speak. last i checked your population didn't smack of big numbers, less than 400 million?

what would happen if China and India decided to form an eastern coalition and take over the west?

2 billion people there heh....

never know, anti american sentiment is so high in places that the wrong man gets in power and he could start them down the road to war with a propaganda machine.

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quote:


Originally posted by Cruis.In:

yeah nice post.

but I believe other countries in the middle east fit your criteria for the invasion of iraq...

or most of it.

I worry too much, I worry if America spreads itself thin, and they get ousted then who would be the world's police so to speak. last i checked your population didn't smack of big numbers, less than 400 million?

what would happen if China and India decided to form an eastern coalition and take over the west?

2 billion people there heh....

never know, anti american sentiment is so high in places that the wrong man gets in power and he could start them down the road to war with a propaganda machine.


Numbers don;t mean jack if you don't have the means to transport them to the enemies power base and supply them while they are there.

Last time I checked China didn;t have a blue water navy and I don't think they can transport an army with armored support easily by air either,

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quote:


Originally posted by Cruis.In:

you could say something a little better than numbers don't mean jack.

numbers can build things fast.


Read the second half of my statement since it qualifies the first half. I didn;t say they didn't mean jack for every given situation, just if there is no way to transport them to the area or operations or if the enemy controls the routes to the area of operations.

Please don't take snippits of what I post and twist it contrary to my meaning in context.

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Guest drdespair

I feel a sadness knowing that the eyes of the world have again been blinded by greed, political smoke screen, and the spinning of countless interest groups in the US and all over the world. Iraq is unfortunaly not better off as most people say, its easy to come into a country after its been under the UN restrictions for more then a decade (restrictions whose lifting was vetoed by the US again and again) and say that look at all the improvement. Iraq was never a poor country, nor was it ever a country that didnÔÇÖt have a good education system, health or any other social system. All the US has done is basically got it self into the same lock that Saddam was in, Iraq is not a united country, there many faction within who are spread out geographically who donÔÇÖt have good relations with each other, especially since some of these minority groups have settled in some very oil rich regions. Saddam through his iron fist tactics was able to "keep the peace" for many years, now as soon as the US departs we are very likely to see a full-blown civil was with huge casualties on all sides. WMD.. I will not even talk about those, as far as I am concerned they did not exist short of possible field ordinance, but nothing on the scale that could have threated the US on their side of the world.

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quote:

Originally posted by drdespair:

I feel a sadness knowing that the eyes of the world have again been blinded by greed, political smoke screen, and the spinning of countless interest groups in the US and all over the world. Iraq is unfortunaly not better off as most people say, its easy to come into a country after its been under the UN restrictions for more then a decade (restrictions whose lifting was vetoed by the US again and again) and say that look at all the improvement. Iraq was never a poor country, nor was it ever a country that didnÔÇÖt have a good education system, health or any other social system. All the US has done is basically got it self into the same lock that Saddam was in, Iraq is not a united country, there many faction within who are spread out geographically who donÔÇÖt have good relations with each other, especially since some of these minority groups have settled in some very oil rich regions. Saddam through his iron fist tactics was able to "keep the peace" for many years, now as soon as the US departs we are very likely to see a full-blown civil was with huge casualties on all sides. WMD.. I will not even talk about those, as far as I am concerned they did not exist short of possible field ordinance, but nothing on the scale that could have threated the US on their side of the world.

Ah yes, Iraq is NOT better off without Saddam.

Well, let's take a closer look at things, shall we?

When Saddam took over he began a campaign of shutting up the Sunni population, about 60% of the Iraqi population, he terrorized those that disagreed with him and imprisoned those that refused to join the Baathist party, INCLUDING their CHILDREN!!!

Yeahm they were better off under saddam......

If someone spoke out against him, he had his goonsquads go out and punish that person, either by A: just shooting them, B: Shooting or hanging the children in front of them, C: Raping and killing thier daugters in front of them, or D: Hauling off the entire family to prison and doing all of the above behind closed doors.

Yeah, they were better off under Saddam......

The money from the oil fileds poured into Saddams coffers, he built extravagant palaces for himself with solid gold fixtures, marble floors, and ALL of them were offlimits to the Iraqi people, who's money payed for it.

Yeah, they were better off under Saddam.

Saddam started a war with Iran, used WMD's on the battle line and a total of around 400,000 Iraqi men were killed.

Yeah, they were better off under Saddam.

Health care, owning a business etc, were only for those that were a member of the Baathist party, if you were not a member of the Baathist party, you were an outsider, and treated like a dog, pubished for no reason whatsoever but because you were not a member of the Baathist party.

Yeah, they were better off under Saddam.

He invaded Kuwait, because he accused them of Horizontally drilling into Iraqi oil fields, he invaded, killing thousands of innocent men, women and children, many to this day are still missing, no clue as to what happened to them.

Yeah, they were better off under Saddam.

A total of over 1 million Iraqi Men women and children were killed or disapeared under Saddam's iron rule.

Yeah, they were better off under Saddam.

The UN put Iraq under sanctions, but allowed it to sell oil for food, so that the Iraqi people would not suffer. Saddam took ALL of that money, spent it on his palaces, terrorists, and anything else BESIDES his People. It was Saddam who kept his people starving NOT the UN.

Yeah, they were better off under Saddam.

Today, Saddam is gone, the country is being rebuilt, none of which was done under Saddam, although we allowed him the money to do so.

The country has gone to a freee enterprise capitalist system, you can practically buy anything on every street corner, satelite dish, right there, illegal under Saddam, wanna start a business, Cool, here's your license, go have a ball.

Yeah, they were better of under Saddam....

Have I made my point? Or do I need to show other examples.

My heart is sad that you are nasty enough to feel sad that Saddam is gone, it pains me to think of people that have no clue what terror the Iraqi people have been under for the last 25 years and actually get mad at us for stopping it.

Well, we did it, we are glad, and nothing you can say will change it, being sad because we got rid of a bloodthirsty dictator is just plain sick as far as I am concerned.........

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Oh, and by the way, the Iraqi people want their DEMOCRATICALLY elected government NOW!!

We feel that there should be a transitional government of some sort before they go for democracy, but they feel that they are ready.

Each group will be guaranteed some sort of representation in the new government, so a civil war is about the furthest thing from their minds right now.

This is the BEST thing that has happened to the Iraqi people in a LONG time and they don't want to blow it.

It is also the best thing for the middle east, the other countries over there are the ones that are going to be hurting once Iraq is up on it's feet and rolling.

It will be one of 2 democracies in the Middle East, Iran will be next, and then Syria, then the dominoes will really begin to fall.

We did it, and we're glad, and no bleeding heart Europeans, who feel that Saddam was good for his people, are going to change our minds.

Oh, and as far as WMD's NOT being a threat because they were in the middle east.

Sorry stud, no dice, Saddam supported terrorists, and was training Al Quaeda in the use of biological and chemical weapons, that's a proven fact, which you have so thoroughly ignored.

If Saddam had been allowed to continue doing what he was doing, how long would it have been before we had a biological or chemical weapon go off in an american city? You don't know? Neither did we, but we were NOT going to take that chance.

The lives of American civilians is MUCH more important then the life of one tinpot dictator and his cronies. You may not like it, but it;s the truth.

Al Quaeda made the mistake of attacking us, it made them a target, it also made ALL of those that supported them a target, this included the Taliban, and Saddam, and others are also on the list, you will notice that Libya rolled over REALLY fast when he realized what we were doing.

We are the world's ONLY superpower, mess with us, kill our civilians, attack us, and you will die.

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