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terrorist attack at Madrid -

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quote:

Originally posted by Remo Williams:

Frescas it doesn't take a history expert to know about how Islam got started and the crusades. There are articles about it all over the net. I'll try to dig some up for you later. Terrorism is nothing new to the world. Its been used all through out mankinds history. Again just do a search. Theres a wealth of info on this for us non experts. At least know something about what your saying sir before you try to argue a point.

Hi Remo,

I supose that you mean that Jihad started with the crusades because the Islam didn't. If I'm not mistaken. The Islam started with the profet Mohamed.

But anyway, you made a good point about looking for this issue in internet to put things in perspective.

Well I did. first I looked for the definition of terrorism, which you can read here: www.terrorismfiles.org.

According to this site I'd had to admit tha terrorim started earlier than I said ( Look here )

But I'd like to agree more with the definition of Jon Wiener which in this article he says that the starting of the "clasical terrorism" (his words not mine) was in 1878. Sorry that the link refers to a site in Spanish but I couldn't find the English version.

To Jaguar.

A- Keep kidding yourself

B- That we don't agree in this point does not mean that I do agree with the decision of the democratic elected goverment of my country. Which I don't agree but have to eventually accept (hopefully they'll change their mind before june) couse that's one of the point of a democracy, isn't it?. So don't start with that was not the point of this discusion.

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quote:

Originally posted by Frescas:

To Jaguar.

A- Keep kidding yourself

B- That we don't agree in this point does not mean that I do agree with the decision of the democratic elected goverment of my country. Which I don't agree but have to eventually accept (hopefully they'll change their mind before june) couse that's one of the point of a democracy, isn't it?. So don't start with that was not the point of this discusion.

First off, I have no clue what you are talking about. History shows me to be correct.

And B: Your government just rewarded the terrorists for their action.

Short term it makes your countryman feel like they are doing something, Long term they are cutting their own throats.

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Jaguar, your post is like a salmon egg to a trout. Irresistable. The proud people of Spain did NOT reward the terrorists but rather, acted rationally and gave a clear message to the terrorists that they will no longer meddle in their afairs. Instead of pulling the lame Texas cowboy routine, which obviously results in more and more of your country's troops being killed daily, and the world viewing you as the pathetic bully on the block, they decided to take the high road.....VIVA ZAPATERO!!!!!!!!!!!

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Guest MIKE113

quote:

Originally posted by El Che:

Jaguar, your post is like a salmon egg to a trout. Irresistable. The proud people of Spain did NOT reward the terrorists but rather, acted rationally and gave a clear message to the terrorists that they will no longer meddle in their afairs. Instead of pulling the lame Texas cowboy routine, which obviously results in more and more of your country's troops being killed daily, and the world viewing you as the pathetic bully on the block, they decided to take the high road.....VIVA ZAPATERO!!!!!!!!!!!

Rubbish!

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quote:

Originally posted by El Che:

VIVA ZAPATERO!!!!!!!!!!!

El Che, as long as you are on this board, please honor the fact that not a lot of people can speak you're language. Just like how I honor the fact that not a lot of people can speak Japanese or Russien, so there for I don't use it. Please do the same

That being said, please put that in english. I already know a couple people on this board who are not in a good mood because of people like you who refuse to honor the english speaking people.

Now, As for Spain. To be honest I could careless, at first I respected them, but now I consider them cowards just like I consider France cowards. They RAN from Terrorists. Now the Terrorists know they can strike spain and get away with it

Enjoy you're so called 'Victory over Terrorism' cause I can gurrentee, just like Jag can, that you guys will be attacked again. Maybe not now, but sometime in the future, there are times like these that I wish America would break there alliance's with cowards. France being the main one, and now Spain, cause quite frankly, I don't want a Coward as an ally

Edit: It's the spanish government who are cowards, not the spanish people in general (although, I do think that they jumped the gun when they where attack)

Edit 2: Instead of fighting for what they believed in, like we are where fighting for peace, they instead decided to cowar behind there desk's in hopes that nothing will happen... sorry but something will happen.. sooner... or later.. Spain just signed it's own death warrent

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The next person to post on my board in any language other than English, will be IP banned without warning.

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1- WE, the majority of spanish citizens DIDNT WANT to enter the war NO and NO!.

2-Our last president, Aznar, made us enter the war ignoring the disagreement of thousands of people manifestating at the streets.

3-We are at the back of europe, our aislament during the Franco dictadure distanced us from the rest of the world.So WE KNEW we were not prepared to counter all of the terrorist attacks that may occur as good as US or England.

4-At the 11M we saw we were right at our thoughts.We are like the little dumb kid that goes to play with teenagers and ends up kicked in his butt.

5-Our new president is correcting the mistake of the last president, removing our troops from Irak.Also this was part of his promises at the elections.

6-So we ARE NOT withdrawing because we are scared or want to move to a side, we shouldnt have never been there.If world powers like the US wants to play with fire then go there and get burned,and if at the end you achieve something positive then be proud of yourself.We are better to keep in a side watching.

7-The worst thing is how the muslin world and specially the radicals and terrorist are going to see our withdraw.Our action is not going to do any good to the rest of countrys that stay at Irak,and certainly there will be more attacks fueled by us.

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And certainly there will be more attacked on Spain in general, Ghostpilot you fail to realize what a MISTAKE you're president made. Withdrawing has only taught the terrorists that they can put FEAR into you

You guys claim that you're not ready

Japan wasn't ready, and yet they still send troops there.. why? Cause they have there honor to uphold, there not going to run, cause they know if they do they'll be dishonoring the US. We gave Japan a second chance, and they are here to stay

I'm sorry Ghost Pilot, but you're president made a fatal mistake, a mistake that will cost you and you're people in the coming future, but hey don't take my word for it. Study you're history, Europe NEVER learns from it's history, like before, you guys are repeating history again, and again, and again

Edit: Also, by pulling out you're insulting those who died in the terrorist attack on you're country. Those who died probably want vengence for being the targets of a cowards bomb, as only a coward would target a civilen population

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<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Edit 2: Instead of fighting for what they believed in, like we are where fighting for peace, they instead decided to cowar behind there desk's in hopes that nothing will happen... sorry but something will happen.. sooner... or later.. Spain just signed it's own death warrent

>>>>>>>>

We never believed an invasion of Irak was a solution for nothing apart for being more hated.

Our governement participated on it only for the benefits we would gain,they tried to convince us it was for a good cause to stop terrorism but we only hated them more for being greed and false.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Edit: It's the spanish government who are cowards, not the spanish people in general although, I do think that they jumped the gun when they where attack

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

We jumped the gun because we got bombed for a thing we never wanted to get involved in.We dont want to get bombed more or get our soldiers killed when at first we never wanted to be on Irak, althought the best would be to tighten up and face what we have in our hands.Thats not going to happen actually.We all lose here.

In the other side if we really had something against Saddam regime or the radicals, or we always had thought it was a priority to go to Irak, then the reaction on this attack would be completely different, I tell you.As long as I have been living in this world there have been terrorist attacks by our inside terrorist group ETA,and never the people has hided or scared away by it.In fact more and more the citizens are fighting this terrorists.

Look at one of the last attacks from ETA that got frustated.2 terrorist were driving a bombcar in one of the main streets of Barcelona in daytime.The car wrecked down and they had to push it.When a police went there to give a hand because they were causing a great traffic congestion he got a shot in the head.In the middle of the street with lots of people around them.The terrorist ran away trought the shocked people and then some UNARMED citizens chased them and phoned the police with a cell phone to update the terrorist position,risking their lives by doing so.

What is happening is people is more and more upset by terrorism and eventually they participate more and more in the fight of it.

So I hope you really dont think we are cowards because you will be VERY wrong.If we really wanted to be on Irak we still would be there.

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I agree with you.This is not the solution. But I want you to understand how the feelings are running here.I dont think most the people here is prepared to view the things globally and therefor seeing the consequences of our withdraw,but this is what is going to happen.I dont know what would happen if another big attack is made here.

And for our victims at the bomb attack, I dont think we are insulting them as long as we capture all the "persons" (if they can be called that way) involved in that attack.

And please, dont compare us with japan.We are not even the shadow of them.

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quote:

Originally posted by GhostPilot:

I agree with you.This is not the solution. But I want you to understand how the feelings are running here.I dont think most the people here is prepared to view the things globally and therefor seeing the consequences of our withdraw,but this is what is going to happen.I dont know what would happen if another big attack is made here.

And for our victims at the bomb attack, I dont think we are insulting them as long as we capture all the "persons" (if they can be called that way) involved in that attack.

And please, dont compare us with japan.We are not even the shadow of them.

I feel bad for all of the countries of Europe, including Spain.

You are again repeating history.

History proves that when you appease an aggressor, you lose the respect of the aggressor and he becomes MORE aggressive.

Spain has appeased the terrorists, their tactics work, they will now become more aggressive in the future.

People in general, not just Spain, ignore history at their peril, Spain just happens to be the example at this point in time.

The Terrorists are now going to want more, because they feel that they can get more, it's going to happen, it is just a matter of time.

Terrorists cannot be treated as criminals, they must be treated as enemy combatants, because they will hide behind the justice system, and the liberals that run them. The terrorists didn't know what they were doing, or we did something that angered them and therefore we deserved it etc.

Civilians NEVER deserve to be slaughtered in a bombing attack by cowards. The Terrorists are enemies of mankind, and mankind must excise them like the cancer they are, through the military force of arms that we can bring to bear on them.

quote:

By George Orwell

Men sleep peacefully in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

And those rough men are good at their job, and we should unleash them to do it. EVERY country needs to unleash their military upon these animals, and destroy them. The Terrorists are a cancer that will destroy us if we do not destroy them first.

Appeasment to terrorists will bring on more aggression, these are not rational human beings, these are fanatics, and you cannot get peace with fanatics by appeasment. You fight fanatics with the military, so that years from now, these terrorists will cower in their lairs, afraid to show their heads, because oiur rough men will take their heads off when they do.

We must take the war to them, just as we have, we must put them BACK on the defensive, and NEVER give them the opportunity to make an offensive strike against our civilians, of ANY country.

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quote:

Originally posted by GhostPilot:

1: A: We never believed an invasion of Iraq was a solution for nothing apart for B: being more hated.

2: Our government participated on it only for the benefits we would gain.

3: So I hope you really dont think we are cowards because you will be VERY wrong.If we really wanted to be on Irak we still would be there.


1: A: When you say "We", who is the ÔÇ£WeÔÇØ you are talking about. Because, if I'm not mistaken, that from what I understood the conservative leader you had was likely to win the election before the bombing.

BBC news: ÔÇ£The most recent polls suggested a narrowing lead for the ruling Popular Party (PP), now led by Mariano Rajoy, the hand-picked successor of Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar. It was estimated to have a lead of 4.5 percentage points over the opposition Spanish Socialist Workers' Party (PSOE), led by Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero. But that poll was taken three days before Thursday's attacks, which killed nearly 200 people aboard packed rush-hour trains in Madrid. ÔÇØ So, in that respect, the majority of the voters didnÔÇÖt have an issue about going to war with Iraq and that it was the right thing to do. B: Nothing is going to solve that at all no matter if you sit, be peaceful and do nothing or get actively involved. There are just going to be people or groups of people who are going to hate others just for existing.

2: You are more right than you know but not in your conclusions. Your government got involved to help out an ally. Sure there are some major benefits to that most in particular is a free a prosperous Iraq. Do you not agree that is a great benefit not to mention respect? Just to show to the terrorists or anyone else that even in the face of them you are going to stand by certain convictions. 99% of time the motive(s) is not what is stated in the non-impartial media spin.

3: No I donÔÇÖt think Spain is a coward just a bad knee jerk reaction in the wrong direction to a terrorist attack which is giving the appearance to us and the terrorists that they now can control an entire country based on one microscopic attack.

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Polls are a very strange thing, if we take them as a true fact of the people thaughts then you need to know that the CIS made a poll a few days ago, the results were as this:

76% percent of the spaniards are against the war.

Zapataro got a grade of 6.5 out of 10.

Rajoy failed 4.6 or so.

Take your own conclusions. If someone vote goes to the PP it doesn't mean that he or she also supports the war. You cannot compare both facts.

Life is not a multiple choice test, I cannot chose between A or B, because I always will go for C and that one is not there. I use to hate those kind of exams in USA while I studied there long time ago, they were awful and pointless, but it seems that's the way you mind works.

And out of topic question: the way we think and feel is directly connected to our language, sometimes it quite hard trying to express our horror in a different language. My question is how a language cannot see the difference between you singular and you plural? May be that's the reason some people around cannot see the differences beteween Al Quaeda, Osama, Saddam, Iraq, Afganistan, Muslims.

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Guest MIKE113

quote:

I dont think most the people here is prepared to view the things globally and therefor seeing the consequences of our withdraw,but this is what is going to happen.I dont know what would happen if another big attack is made here.


Don't worry We will still help Spain to find them, as I'm sure we are now, And we will fill the void left by Spain with Our own Brave Men!

OORAH!!!!!

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I apologize to all for posting in a language other than English. I can certainly understand your frustration in that. I meant no ill will in doing that. Spanish is not my native tongue...I was born to Irish immigrants, but growing up in California it is unavoidable that you not only pick up a bit of Spanish but other languages as well. ( I can curse in 6 different languages). To Kalshion, what I said was Long live Zapatero. Once again, my deepest apologies to anyone whom I have offended or made to feel uncomfortable.

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