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Patriot Act : Reality Check


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No I just want to move to Britan because the entire 3rd world doesnt hate them... and... they have cool accents... heh. Oh and the reason why Jag makes more sense to you is because you somewhat closed minded and dont want to listen to anything street has to say. Both sides make sense to me and I see where they are comming from but personally I'm siding with street more because he backs his up with more "facts" and he seems to reaserch them. If Jag can hit me with a whopper of a pro patriot act thing then ill switch sides yet again... Blade please keep a semi open mind the fact that people protesting in washington got locked up indeffinatly is not a good thing. Espeically when your old enough and wanna go protest some Democrat in office and you get locked up indeffinatly with no chance of trial or attorney because of the Patriot Act. It might be good in some aspects. But in others it's very very bad.

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If you protested the government you would just sit there and ACCEPT IT!!!! One of the basic freedoms in our society is freedom of speech and freedom of a peaceful gathering that means if you dont like what the government is doing (say i dont know killing babies... everyone hates that) you can PROTEST IT PEACFULLY lack of that take away a fundamental right in this society THE FACT that you would accept your punishment so UNJUSTLY given means that you are already brainwashed with patriotic nonsense. To go along with anything unquestionably is just Dumb you must always question if you want an answer. Question God, question the War, question the Country, question your parents. No one ever gives you a whole truth there is no such thing as a "Whole truth" you must protest and question to find such things out.

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Alright good. I was afraid you where brainwashed for a second there. But thats what the patriot act does at least part of what it does. Im not saying the entire things bad but being locked up without legal representation is just wrong.

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No it is not wrong, it is completely right if you are doing something concerning national security or your actions are harming somone intentionally or are going to to harm someone intentionally, if its already happend or you have the intent of it

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  • 8 months later...

The Patriot Act raises it's ugly little head and snarls at this citizen of America.....

January 29,2005

Dear Commander H. T. Wolferz, Commercial Drivers License Number: xxxxxxxx

License Expire Date: 07/04/2005

Federal regulations issued by the Gestapo... err U. S. Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration(TSA) in support of the Federal USA PATRIOT Act will soon change the application process for each Commercial Drivers License (CDL) holder who is renewing a hazardous materials endorsement.

The new Federal requirements take effect on May 31,2005 , and will require all CDL holders who are renewing their CDL with hazardous materials endorsement to provide proof of U. S. citizenship or proof of appropriate immigration status, have their fingerprints taken, pay additional Federal fees and successfully complete a Federal criminal history background check.

Requirements 5/31/2005 and after

    [*]Pass the hazmat recertification knowledge test

    [*]Appear at a Driver License Center and provide proof of U.S. citizenship or proof of appropriate immigration status

    [*]Complete a Federal Security Threat Assessment application (DL 288)

    [*]Pay Federal fees totaling $58.00 check made payable to PennDOT includes TSA Security Threat Assessment application fee of $34 and $24 FBI fingerprint check fee)

    [*]Appear at a Pennsylvania State Police location to be fingerprinted for the Federal Security Threat Assessment.

    [*]PennDOT must recieve clearance from the Federal Department of Homeland Security, Transportation Security Administration for you to retain your hazardous materials endorsement.

    [*]Submit a renewal application.

    [*]Pay the Pennsylvania renewal fee.

Now, I'm sure these new regulations were imposed with the best intentions but, I'm having serious doubts as to the myriad of possible outcomes.

Notice that it says Federal Security, not NATIONAL security.

This adds to my belief that there is definitely something seriously wrong with our government. Logic dictates that there are paranoid individuals within our government who are following a well planned agenda to consolidate their power over Joe Citizen and secure their position as the new elite owners of planet Earth.

They don't have to change the CONSTITUTION to do this. They are doing it through regulations written into existing laws. Regulations that the President can change at will, without even a glimmer of Congressional Oversight ( also known as turn a blind eye and put the money in my pocket)

The Neocons have tipped the scales of the Checks and Balance System in their favor and we will all be the losers for it.

I bet TJ is spinning in his grave.

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Good! =)

I'm glad that there finally doing SOMETHING to counter a possible terrorist threat

Asking if you're a citizen, being finger printed, all thats a good idea because it'll make it harder for terrorists to get into our country and possibly cause more harm

quote:

This adds to my belief that there is definitely something seriously wrong with our government

There is something wrong, the current liberals in Congress and the Senate won't allow any of Bush's changes to go through, the longer they delay, the more damage that is done to America

quote:

Logic dictates that there are paranoid individuals within our government who are following a well planned agenda to consolidate their power over Joe Citizen and secure their position as the new elite owners of planet Earth.


The plan is to continue to oppose any change's the president trys to make. Funny really, if it was Kerry, they wouldn't oppose

quote:

Regulations that the President can change at will, without even a glimmer of Congressional Oversight

Patriot Act was passed with approval of congress, did you conviently forget that?

People keep on forgetting, the president has a big job in protecting this country and he can't do that if people keep on opposing every change he trys to make

quote:

The Neocons have tipped the scales of the Checks and Balance System in their favor and we will all be the losers for it.


Neocons? Let me give you a reminder on what "Neocon" means

Neocon - An intellectual and political movement in favor of political, economic, and social conservatism that arose in opposition to the perceived liberalism of the 1960s

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quote:


Originally posted by JerkFace:

What's the difference between "Federal" and "National" in the context of security?


Federal refers to a central governing body,

ie: Federal Government.The context of my statement refers to the Federal Government's security... from Joe Citizen (aka USA Patriot Act), which they guard with the utmost care.

The Patriot Act hasn't rooted out any terrorists that I have heard about. Let's ask Jaguar.

We have already seen how well they guard the security of Joe Citizen.

It is my estimation that the Patriot Act was literally crow-barred into law, for the sole purpose of protecting the real terrorists and to push forward.their agenda of totalitarian control.

Can you say "Big Brother"?

I knew you could.

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When one says "National security", they are referring to the security of the nation and all of it's interests and holdings.

When one says "Federal security", one is referring to the security of the federal union.

Seeing as our nation is a federal union, I fail to see how this little wording issue presents much of a problem.

There were several instances in which elements of the PATRIOT Act have provided solid form in sniffing out some of the various methods of funding. In some of the southwest burbs of Chicago, there were several gentlemen arrested for aiding in the funding of terrorism. They did this by using specific tools provided to them by the PATRIOT Act.

Oh well. It must be just a totalitarian conspiracy based on information gathered from the Echelon spy network and the International Widget Association.

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Yeah, TSA is a fricking joke of an organization. It's just like the hearings back in the days.

They have imposed SO many ludicrous idiotic rules on pilots and flight instructors that it makes it almost impossible to teach new pilots anymore. The registration process is almost the same as for the commercial drivers licence, with fingerprinting, all the paperwork hustle, and the damned fees (everywhere). Then even more paperwork for the student pilot, with more fees and more ^%$#$#, then the waiting period till they "approved" (actually says, "check clears", you can see what "approved" really means). Then a flight instructor has to snap a picture of the student and send it TSA so that they can link the file they have on the student to the file they have on the instructor. It does absolutly nothing, zero, zilch, nada, because all the flight instructors are either US citizens, or the ones that are not, had to be checked (background) and cleared by the INS previously to even recieve the permission to WORK, and the necessary training for flight instruction, on top of that. All the students are either US citizens or if they are foreign, they need to have a student visa which means they had to clear (background) through the INS before hand. So as you can see, all this is just a smoke screen so that people think they are actually doing something, and also to collect a little extra revenue, (if you can call it "little", on the TSA site you can find a link to their budget, and they get about a little more than a COUPLE OF MILL. a DAY just from the imposed fee on airline tickets alone, not to mention all the registration and other fees...).

Like I said, the whole organization is a joke and a menace, it causes more problems than it solves for the people, and it sucks money like a vacuum. Remember that next time you buy anything at the store, or book a ticket, you just paid for all the fees we (pilots, truck drivers and many many others...) had to pay, and see what "benefits" you gain (you gain NO improved security from them, whatsoever). It's just another government beuracracy. So go ahead, pay more in end product costs while wondering why prices go up (thank uncle sam, not the businesses). Hopefully they will give thi "transportation security administration" the boot, and soon.

When will people see the real truth...Just like Wolfrez said, "Hello from the Gestapo, err...TSA"

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Guest DocHoliday

I'm glad some of you guys see the gov't for what it is.. self-serving entity with a life of its own.. of the people, by the poeple, for itself

Sadly, all gov'ts have this characteristic, it's just that US Federal gov't is well.. most influential in the world. And therefore most dangerous if it gets out of voters' hands..

And you said it.. Big Brother is the keyword. Oceania, Eurasia, EastAsia are ACTUALLY starting to take shape. (if you don't know what I'm on about read Orwell's 1984)

Cheers,

Doc

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And whos fault is that that the government is getting that way?

Us, the voters, we continue to vote people in who are not serving the american people well. YOU(The Voter) voted them in, meaning YOU have to pay the price for there incompetence, IF YOU had taken the time to RESEARCH the person, CHECK there background, CHECK to see if there telling the truth, or if there lieing, AND, in Traitorsom Kerrys case, the voting record of the person and there military record, THEN we wouldn't be having these problems

Saddly, many people are LAZY and decide not to take that extra step and those people right there who have NO RIGHT to vote, but hey, thats my opinion

Examples of idiots:

Oscer goodmen, Herry Read (Nevada)

Oscer Goodman - Mafia crimeboss (Mayor of Vegas)

Herry Read - Ultra Liberal who doensn't care about Nevada

And yet, these people here STILL vote them into office even after finding out that neither will serve the people who voted for them

The people in congress, mainly liberals, are just as guilty as some republicans (SOME, I did not say all) are just in there for the money, others are in there cause they want to make a difference

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Kal,

Please step down from your anti-Kerry/Liberal/"insert label here" soapbox long enough to look around and see with your own eyes what is going on.

Personally, I didn't vote for a single one of the criminals who now hold office, but I did vote. So I can gripe all I wish to.

When it's all boiled down it's all about the Benjamins. Plain and simple, eh?

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by JerkFace:

"Please step down from your anti-Kerry/Liberal/"insert label here" soapbox long enough to look around and see with your own eyes what is going on."

Are you preferential to the anti-corporate/Republicans are the sUx0r/Money Money Money/The Sky is falling soapbox?

Why are you?

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by JerkFace:

"Why are you?"

Not at all. I generally avoid the silliest of the liberalisms.

Cool!

Now what were we discussing here, ah yes how to squash the US citizen with more federal laws act.

Sound about right on track for this day and age. What are we going to do about it? Nothing as usual, sounds good to me now back to my Gaming.

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Guest DocHoliday

Of course, the problem is, the way I see it, American voters (actually, most other countries too) really have nothing good to choose from when it comes to elections:

- either you go and vote for someone you probably don't like. In best case, you are able to rationalize the decision and choose the lesser evil, hoping they workout somehow.

- or you don't go and effectively increase realative percentage of those you don't like... plus you then have "no right" to comment on the outcome..

either way, you're screwed.

I remember a while ago Jello Biafra (singer of Dead Kennedies, ran for mayorship of SF, ages ago) said, that you should have a "none of the above" option and if no candidate'd get enough votes, the elections would have to be repeated but with totally NEW candidates as obviously the current ones are not liked

But reality is different.... and usually this sort of shit is sorted out by drastic measures like revolutions.. I know we had to do it in our country about 15 years ago. And it worked out.

PS: didn't want to start a flame war, so the more passionate of you, know this - we understand and (probably) agree, so no need to use extreme languange

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quote:

Originally posted by DocHoliday:

PS: didn't want to start a flame war, so the more passionate of you, know this - we understand and (probably) agree, so no need to use extreme languange

I won't be starting a flame war with you, because I agree 100%.

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