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Politcal Debate: Could 9/11 been prevented?


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It is hard to say, because of many aspects.

First of all, consider the intelligence gathered. Sure, there were some memos that surfaced pre-9/11 that stated that unlikely characters were spending time in flight simulators (to be honest, MSFS would be a sufficient enough flight simulator to train me how to fly a commercial airliner, already in flight, into a building).

Secondly, consider the passengers. The really didn't know what was going on until it was almost too late. How do you determine, as a PX, whether or not you need to stand up and stop someone? Sure, as a citizen living in a post-9/11 US, I would put myself between a towel-head (no offense) and the cockpit, but prior to that, I would have thought of someone walking towards the front of the aircraft of just a victim to the call of nature. Now, I might see things differently, as many probably would.

Basically, you have to consider this (which may be innacurate, since I don't know all of the facts): It is very hard to shut down every flight in the country because of a -suspected- act of terrorism. It might have been able to be prevented, but the inconveniences caused would have likely caused as much of a stir as the act itself.

BTW, I was attending Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University (PRC-Campus) at the time of the attacks, so I saw first-hand the investigations that took place after the attacks, as well as the difference that it makes when a nation's flight lines are shut down.

Just my 2 cents.

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No, NOT without the intelligence that Clinton gutted to the bone, no, not without the FBI and the CIA being able to communicate and being able to use that information in a court of law. Which has been a policy since Jimmy Carter. With that policy in place, it was IMPOSSIBLE to prevent 911.

If we had hit back and HIT BACK HARD after the Cole and the embassy bombings and the myriad of other terrorist attacks that we either basically ignored, unless politically convenient, or ran away from, Samolia, Mogadishu, then we could have prevented 911.

If all of these things had happened, if our intelligence agencies had NOT been gutted, if the FBI and CIA were able to cooperate and share inforemation, and we had responded with overwhelming force to the smaller terrorist attacks on US citizens, and HAD NOT run away with our tails between our legs, 911 COULD have been prevented.

Without ALL of those things, there was no way in hell it could have been.

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ok, let's forget about all the other countries on this planet and their governments.

If they have terrorist cells operating out of their territory, we could just marshall our forces and go in and clean out the lot of them.

This type of thinking is just a pipe dream.

If we conscripted every able bodied person in the country, we wouldn't have enough troops to cover every theatening condition on the planet.

Our best bet is to use what we have to seal our borders against entry by these fanatical nutjobs.

Could 9/11 have been prevented? Of course it could. Forget all the "ifs" and look at the situation from a neutral point of view. Look at history for the other sneak attacks on our country. Get out the picks and shovels and dig for the truth. The real truth, not the truth as told by the American History books issued to High School students.

Before the US entry into WW II there were a great many things going on around the globe.

At that time, The United States had an isolationist policy. We had saved France from total annihilation at the hands of the Kaiser.

Americans were sick of war and wanted no part of the conflict perpetrated by the Nazis.

We stood back even though Nazi U-Boats were killing American Merchant Mariners in the Atlantic, ferrying supplies to Britain.

We stood back and watched as our government put a stranglehold on Japan with an oil blockade.

America was forced into WW II by a shadow government that is still in DC today.

They set us up the bomb. "All Your Resource are belong to us" is their ideology. They wanted a major catastrophe for the purpose of firing up our War Machine again. It was used to manifest Pearl Harbor and it was easy enough to set up the 9/11 attack.

There are things going on in the CIA that have nothing to do with protecting American citizens.

Things that they are not going to share with anyone, especially the FBI.

If the FBI had caught even the scent of the impending attack, they would have been told to siddown and shaddup.

So it's alleged that there were Arab Islamic extremists who carried out the dastardly deed, but the facts are so shrouded in secrecy and misinformation, we will never know who was truly behind it. Nor will we ever know if it could have been prevented.

There are so many questions of oddities, during the event, that I personally witnessed on television that day.

It's ludicrous.

Questions that will never be answered, because the answers are hidden away in secret FBI, CIA, and FAA reports.

Our government has been operating "Sub Rosa" since 1941.

Personally, I don't trust people who keep secrets. Especially secrets that could endanger the security of my country, myself, and my family.

These are just my personal feelings, gained from a lifetime of observations and experiences.

I have always been guided by an unseen force.

Call it intuition if you will, many people do.

Others have accused me of having a nose like a Bloodhound and all this Hoohah going on since 9/11/01 has a very pungent odor to it.

Put your nose to the ground and follow the scent.

I guarantee you won't believe who the real skunks are.

"sniff" "sniff" "snuffle"

I smell a Jag attack coming

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quote:

Call it intuition if you will, many people do.

Others have accused me of having a nose like a Bloodhound and all this Hoohah going on since 9/11/01 has a very pungent odor to it.

Put your nose to the ground and follow the scent.

I guarantee you won't believe who the real skunks are.

Do I KNOW YOU?..probably not!. Your scaring me,though. That entire post is so true to mark, in it's observation.

(street talking to himself):" And I thought I was the ONLY one who really UNDERSTOOD!"

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quote:


Originally posted by street:

Do I KNOW YOU?..probably not!. Your scaring me,though. That entire post is so true to mark, in it's observation.

(street talking to himself):" And I thought I was the ONLY one who really UNDERSTOOD!"


I hear ya Street!

Those of us with more brains than an Amoeba, and enough common sense to use them, who see what is really going on, are dismissed as lunatic

Conspiracy nuts.

There are very few people who want to have their cozy little bubbles popped. So they continue deluding themselves and refuse to see the real truth. Often times the truth hurts like hell, so it is avoided like the plague.

Much easier to continue believing the constant stream of lies as long as their bubble remains intact.

The nations shepherds have been replaced by wolves and they are eating the sheep.

I'm keeping my earplugs handy so as not to be deafened when the Pricks finally pop a million or more bubbles.

There will be more soapy scum flowing than the storm drains can handle. Git'cher hoses folks.

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It says that it's secret on the OUTSIDE, the secret stuff is on the INSIDE!!

So, if you have an X-ray camera, maybe you'll be able to read it, otherwise, all you know is that he has a SECRET document.

Woohoo, I used to carry those around every fricking day....

Not a big deal AT ALL....

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For Street and Wolferz I highly recommend that you cease and desist with all your current news sources. I urge you to watch the FOX news Channel (fair and balanced). I sugest that you watch this channel at every opportunity that you get as this is the only source of information that will lead to your conditioning. You must not believe anything that the other so-called news agencies are telling you. That is all left-wing propaganda. It is all lies. George Bush is our hero and we must raise him up on a pedestal for he was chosen by God to lead this country to victory over the evil-doers (whether they have weapons of mass destruction or not). So, I urge you to stay the course, do not waver, smoke out the evil-doers, maintain your resolve, and, above all, re-elect the wonderfully intelligent and peace-loving man who is your president.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cc:

quote:

Woohoo, I used to carry those around every fricking day....

Now That is a scary thought.


Well what was your security clearance?

I used to carry Top secret documents around, I could also work with some our best and most dangerous weaponry.

I was trusted by the US government and the military with codes that you wouldn't have the clearance to carry, let alone see.

What has the US government trusted you with?

Watch your mouth CC, because it just might get you into trouble.

I can't even tell you the level of my security clearance, but it is far higher then the secret clearance that 95% of the people in the military have.

What is scary is a man like Clinton having access to that same information and selling it and giving it to the communist Chinese, because it is dangerous that we are the only superpower and we need someone to catch up with us so that it will keep us in check.

What should scare you are the nuclear missiles that China now has thanks to your hero Traitorous Bill.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

What should scare you are the nuclear missiles that China now has thanks to your hero Traitorous Bill.

Once again it's all Clinton's fault.

That's odd when you consider that we know that China's nuclear capability reached it's apex during the late 80's. It was 1988 when Wen Ho Lee traveled to China toting secrets about our W-88 nuclear warhead. They tested their largest nuclear bomb in 1992 which bore striking similarities to the W-88. It appears the worst of the espionage occured during the Reagan-Bush era.

There is no doubt that the scandal came to a head during Clinton's reign and his administration is not without culpability. But it seems the damage was already done long before Clinton was elected.

Did he exacerbate the situation with his policies and most favored nation status? Most likely, but to pin it all on him and his policies is dishonest and misleading as usual.

Our governments history is rife with administrations on both sides making bad decisions for short term benefit that come back to haunt us in the long term. This is definitely a situation where one party is no more or less guilty than the other.

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It's not China's nuclear science ability, it's its capability to launch them on missiles that were the legacy of the Clinton administration. That's what the Loral missile technology scandal was all about, moving the authorization of technology transfer from Defense to Commerce

However, on the nuclear science front, that is also what the nuclear labs scandal was about, including how Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary reduced the lab security requirements (eliminating IDs that indicated citizens from foreigners under the guise of Political Correctness), halved the security contracting force (boosting profits for the security contractor), allowed foreign scientists to roam uncontrolled through the labs, and then resigned from the Energy Department to take a Board position at the security company whose profits she boosted.

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quote:

Originally posted by Steve Schacher:

It's not China's nuclear science ability, it's its capability to launch them on missiles that were the legacy of the Clinton administration. That's what the Loral missile technology scandal was all about, moving the authorization of technology transfer from Defense to Commerce

However, on the nuclear science front, that is also what the nuclear labs scandal was about, including how Energy Secretary Hazel O'Leary reduced the lab security requirements (eliminating IDs that indicated citizens from foreigners under the guise of Political Correctness), halved the security contracting force (boosting profits for the security contractor), allowed foreign scientists to roam uncontrolled through the labs, and then resigned from the Energy Department to take a Board position at the security company whose profits she boosted.

Agreed, the long range capability did come from the Clinton era as a result of bad policies. I'm not trying to split hairs, just show that the truth is never so one sided. Reagan's poor policies of opening up our secrets for corporate profit in the commercial sector were just as responsible.

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quote:

Originally posted by Grizzle:

Agreed, the long range capability did come from the Clinton era as a result of bad policies. I'm not trying to split hairs, just show that the truth is never so one sided.
Reagan's poor policies of opening up our secrets for corporate profit in the commercial sector were just as responsible.

WRONG!! Reagan only released that technology that could be safely allowed into the commercial sector, that which was older then the technology that our military was at that time using.

Clinton released MODERN technology to the chinese, that technology that we were NOW using.

There is a HUGE difference.

One is responsible, use some of the old military R&D for profits in the private sector, and one is irresponsible. Give the enemy MODERN technology so that they can threaten us.

During the Reagan administration, the Soviets were using old Atari cartridges in their military machinery and computer systems, and were doing their best to create computers on par with our own. NONE of the technology that Reagan released to the private sector could have helped them achieve that goal.

The Chinese were doing their best to create a missile system like ours, and were FAILING miserable, but for a few Bucks, CLINTON released MODERN technology to the Chinese, so that they could catch up.

Which was responsible, and which was irresponisble and TRAITOROUS?!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

quote:

Originally posted by Grizzle:

Agreed, the long range capability did come from the Clinton era as a result of bad policies. I'm not trying to split hairs, just show that the truth is never so one sided.
Reagan's poor policies of opening up our secrets for corporate profit in the commercial sector were just as responsible.

WRONG!! Reagan only released that technology that could be safely allowed into the commercial sector, that which was older then the technology that our military was at that time using.

Clinton released MODERN technology to the chinese, that technology that we were NOW using.

There is a HUGE difference.

One is responsible, use some of the old military R&D for profits in the private sector, and one is irresponsible. Give the enemy MODERN technology so that they can threaten us.

During the Reagan administration, the Soviets were using old Atari cartridges in their military machinery and computer systems, and were doing their best to create computers on par with our own. NONE of the technology that Reagan released to the private sector could have helped them achieve that goal.

The Chinese were doing their best to create a missile system like ours, and were FAILING miserable, but for a few Bucks, CLINTON released MODERN technology to the Chinese, so that they could catch up.

Which was responsible, and which was irresponisble and TRAITOROUS?!!


I've no idea exactly what technology was transferred by Reagan's administration, but I do know that he promoted policies to assist with the modernization of China's nuclear technology among others. He also called for the sharing of information between our top nuclear scientists and theirs and opened the doors to the Los Alamos labs as part of that agreement.

One could argue that China's rapid development of nuclear capability during the 80's and their surprising change of stance from resisting a nuclear non-proliferation treaty to agreeing to it, is a direct result of such actions.

Need I mention China's role as the middle man and delivery agent in the Iran-Contra scandal?

Reagan may have had all the best intentions, but it would be foolish to claim that his actions maintained complete security of our most sensitive military secrets. My guess is that he felt any harm done by his open policies would be rendered moot by his missile defense program, which as we all know has been a total failure.

I reserve harsh terms like treason and traitor for those actually guilty of such. And I find it hard to fault Clinton for continuing policies that began during Nixon's reign and were supported or expanded upon by all subsequent administrations. If one of them is guilty, they all are, but it's a stretch to even infer that any of them made any of their decisions with the intent of doing harm to our country.

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It's NO stretch at all.

Clinton was a traitor, pure and simple.

All he cared about was power and getting a BJ in the Oval office.

quote:

Reagan may have had all the best intentions, but it would be foolish to claim that his actions maintained complete security of our most sensitive military secrets. My guess is that he felt any harm done by his open policies would be rendered moot by his missile defense program, which as we all know has been a total failure.


And again, you are wrong, it has been rather successful, astoundingly so as a matter of fact. But, you don't hear about that in the press, and for good reason.

The other weaponry that has been spun off of the missile defense program is INCREDIBLE, and the system itself, well, let's just say that you are clueless as to how effective it really is.

And BTW, being clueless on this is NOT a bad thing, it is just a fact of your life as a civilian without a need to know.

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

And again, you are wrong, it has been rather successful, astoundingly so as a matter of fact. But, you don't hear about that in the press, and for good reason.

The other weaponry that has been spun off of the missile defense program is INCREDIBLE, and the system itself, well, let's just say that you are clueless as to how effective it really is.

And BTW, being clueless on this is NOT a bad thing, it is just a fact of your life as a civilian without a need to know.

Guess I'll just have to take your word for it on that one.

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