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A soldiers Letter to Kerry


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quote:

Originally posted by Takvah:

*Sighs*

Jaguar, I did debate the guy on his "facts" calling him quite bluntly a LIAR. I don't know how much more blatant I could have been. He was the one that provided NO FACTS. All he said was that he ran tests and that there was an image superimposed over something or other. The whole thing was rather contrived and ended with an absolute statement saying something along the lines of, "I proved you wrong big time". Excuse me? He proved what exactly? I saw no proof... unless the debate was on the use of your and you're in which case he offered resounding proof that he didn't know when to use either. He also spelled the word superimposed incorrectly (the thing he supposedly studied and tested).

Funny I listened to Rush today and he attacked a guy for saying the word defecit with an accent that made it sound like "daficit". I bet you would have just yucked and yucked at that.

I know who you are Jaguar because I used to be you. I was you less than two years ago, cheering as the bombs fell and wishing that shock and awe was REALLY shock and awe and not shock and bore. Then I saw that our soldiers were hungry, unclean and sweltering in Iraq. I came to see that the Iraq war was being privatized and I'm sorry but I have yet to see a corporation win a war. I started looking at the decision processes of this administration, the lies that were piling up and I did what a thinking person does, I changed my mind. Now you conveniently seem to have determined that you know me, calling me a LIBERAL. You don't know me. However with the way you have to toss around that word "liberal" and demonize it, I know what faction of my party you inhabit... the jack boot, fascist, THUG branch. Hell Congress had to enact legislation to keep Prescott Bush from assisting the Nazis for a buck so why would I not believe his grandson would war profiteer? It is BRAZEN, it is UNREPENTANT and somehow you just overlook it all. Hit the snooze button and go back to sleep. Oh and GET ONE THING PERFECTLY CLEAR HERE AND NOW... because I am TIRING *snickers* OF YOUR PATHETIC SNIPING. I am not saying the Democrats are BETTER I am saying that this country needs checks and balances again and Bush who has abused his power and feels no burden of accountability to US (the people) NEEDS TO GO. I'm not the only Republican that feels this way, I know many that share my same position. So do me a favor and stop trying to paint me as a liberal because I believe Bush needs to go. If I am anything beyond Republican it would be Libertarian. I hope that clears it up for you.

Oh and please, spare me your threats.

Cheers

OMG, too hilarious, Oh no, "Then I saw that our soldiers were hungry, unclean and sweltering in Iraq."

Excuse me, they were in the FRICKING desert during a FRICKING WAR....HELLO TAKVAH, being in the military is NEVER a picnic. And the hungry thing, you need to get a grip, our soldiers have never go hungry, each vehicle has quite a few cases of MRE's and emergency rations just in case they get cut off. Unclean, OK, I can go for that, but even on exercises, 30 days at a time, I was able to find some way to get clean at least every 3 days. And SWELTERING, well, DUH, it's the FRICKING desert!!! Why do you think we do most of our training at Ft Ord, NTC, and Fort Bliss....

You need to get a grip.

There you fo with that fascist nonsense again, quit using that word, because you are clueless as to what it means.

And what is this privatized crap? Because companies are hiring mercenaries to protect their employess? Our troops are too busy with security issues to worry about a corporations security.

That is the ONLY privatization of this war that is going on, besides the private companies that have been hired to REBUILD Iraq, which is EXACTLY as it should be.

This country STILL have hecks and Balances, what, you think that when Bush was elected and we got attacked that what was left of the constitution went out the window?

Talk about conspiracy theories and outright nonsense.

And Takvah, you are a LIBERAL, when you talk straight out of the Democrat talking points, it becomes BLATANTLY obvious...

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quote:

Originally posted by Takvah:

He was the one that provided NO FACTS. All he said was that he ran tests and that there was an image superimposed over something or other.

And I'll say again "I proved you wrong"

You're incapible of even TRYING to find out if it's possible and there-for you have no right calling another a liar when you yourself are to afriad to find out for yourself, so come back to me and discuss when you've done the same test, until then you can't discuss with me weather I'm right or wrong..

Cya *I can't stand to see the truth and won't perform the same test to find out if that person is correct* Liberal

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Kalshion... a question for you. Why in the HELL do I have to prove anything? Did I make the assertion that the footage was doctored? WHO MADE THAT ASSERTION? Was it me or was it you? Who said they ran a test and proved that the footage was doctored? Was it me or was it YOU? I have nothing to prove. What you have to prove is that you ran these tests and that this footage was "super-em-posed" *snickers*. What are you TOO scared to show us the proof? Or are you just a damned LIAR? I would like to think that a fellow member of this fine forum was capabale of defending his or herself. You made an assertion that you had run tests and had PROVEN that the footage was doctored. Now JUNIOR, I'm getting very tired of you passing the buck so now it's time to put up or shut up. PROVE ME WRONG AND DELIVER TO ME YOUR EVIDENCE. Otherwise sit in the corner and let the men talk. Until you deliver that evidence I am calling you out as a LIAR. I don't need to run any tests, I didn't even say the footage was for sure legit, what I said was ... "PROVE YOUR GOD DAMNED ASSERTIONS". Is it too much to ask that you deliver the goods? Sure it is possible that this was done, you said it was... SO PROVE IT! You would think you would be chomping at the bit to stick it to this "liberal", well come on then kid... show me the evidence. You initiated the conversation that said that this was doctored tape, you said you proved it... so why the hell do I have to run a test to prove a LIE wrong? It makes absolutely NO SENSE. I am not the Amazing Randy, I am not paid to debunk your BULLSH*T.

Thank you.

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lol, see you are scared.

Again, if you're so interested. Why don't you try it? I won't post this because you'll instantly say it's false, you've already done that to Jaguar and other members of this forum who've posted there fact's and there sources, After all, you ARE a liberal, and liberal's think there alway's correct and think that anything presented before them is wrong. So I say this:

I don't HAVE to prove anything to you. And the evidence? The thing is if I post it you'll just say it's wrong, so what's the point?

And if you use god's name in vain once more I won't hesitate to report you're post, you apperently need to understand that there ARE people on this forum who are very religious and don't appricate god's name's used in that manner

quote:

"super-em-posed" *snickers*.

You apperently don't understand english, Jaguar already told you to stop correcting other people. I have a certain way I spell it because of how it sounds to ME, so STOP correcting me

quote:

word "liberal" and demonize it

Wasn't use who first started this. Ever since the Clinton riegn*SP* Liberal's have been thought up of that because all they care about is themselves and not about others

Liberal's just want other's to be taken care of by the government, they don't want people to succeed. Nor do they want people to know what's going on, truth in that saddly

While Liberal's couldn't care less about the truth, Conversatives do.

Conversative's are people who want to live life there own way. They don't want to be taken care of by the government, they don't want people to take control of others.

For example, I don't want the government to control my life. I want to control my own life, if I don't make it so be it, it's my fault

But the liberal government (democrats mainly) don't want people to take care of themselves, therefor they "Section Eight" house's for people to live in so that they can get off the street's

The thing is, in my opinion unlike Jaguar's, you are not only a Liberal, but someone who is completely brain washed by not only the media, but by Kerry's Propaganda. You believe every little thing thrown at you by the traitor, Kerry.

There is no point in showing you anything, no point in presenting any facts or evidence. You're to brainwashed, to liberal, to anti-american. To believe anything that we present here, that's why I didn't post the evidence before hand.

The use of the word "liar" describes someone who is not telling the truth or present's something that is not capible of being done. In that light, what I did CAN be done and therefor calling me or anyone else a Liar when they either havn't provided any proof, OR the person CALLING the one a liar hasn't TRIED it has no grounds here. That being said, you can't call me a Liar just becuase you're to scared to try it yourself or ask someone to also try it.

So, until you actually try it and discover for yourself how wrong you actually are, you can't call me anything.. I havn't called you anything here except a Die-Hard Liberal (which is saddly the truth) and no I don't know you and nor do you know me but the way you word you're sentence's and the way to disprove any fact's toward you, which in fact are true because of the sources provided and the evidence given, just prove's that no matter how hard to denie(SP) it you are STILL a liberal even if you think you're not

Liberal's are always living in denial and you, Takvah, have proven that fact

[ 08-05-2004, 03:03 AM: Message edited by: Kalshion ]

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Funny how pretty much everyone is saying that about liberals, no facts, no logic, just emotional crap that doesn't make sense the next day. As for the government afraid of people taking care of themselfs that's absolutly right, that's the whole reason for the social programs, dependency means the caretaker has control over the dependant, also the caretaker forcefully takes from those who provide (meaning us taxpayers) and without regard for our wishes spends on those who don't (the dependants). Need I even say "I don't own anybody a living, nobody, nothing" Some people will be foaming at their mouths saying how there's children starving, guess what, their moms shouldn't have had them without the ability to provide for them, I need my money so that I can save to provide for my kids when I'm ready to have them, not so that someone can have 9 of them and get paid $500 a month for each. Hmmm..... interesting who they will vote for, and when those kids grow up in poverty their 9 votes will sure as hell outnumber my one vote, now who do you think they will vote for? For someone that will promise them more social programs or someone who will promise me lower taxes? See why government loves social programs, it gives them control. DUH.....

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Also that's exactly why the economy, and our Democratic government will eventually collapse. But I'll spell it out for those who still don't get it. It will collapse because eventually those who don't contribute to the economy will eventually outnumber those who do by so much that the drain of providing for them will be too much for the taxpayer and......

Wasn't it said "Democracy will fail because when people learn that they can vote themselfs a raise they will do so untill the collapse of the economy/government" Our system is based on Rome, Rome burned.

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Kalshion you're right you don't have to prove anything to me. So I will just continue to be "scared" and call you a LIAR. When you can prove your assertions of fraud, I will be happy to retract my labeling of you as... a LIAR. If you are going to say that you ran a test and state that you PROVED a fact then you need to show the world... or you will be considered a LIAR. Did I use the word LIAR enough?

Conservatives want to live THEIR (notice the correct use of the word) lives. Well I agree with that, most conservatives that are TRUE conservatives want to allow for people to live their lives. HOWEVER, there is a very crazed element in our party that is infiltrating all areas of our life. Our President is not standing against this kind of behavior and his Justice Dept., is in fact being very vigorous in its efforts to spy on all of us. The longer we remain afraid the easier it is for them to convince us all that what they do is for our own good. I find this frightening. Every day our freedoms are being limited, our Constitutional protections are being subverted and you guys ignore it. When will it become an issue for you? What will they target in your life that will finally make you wake up? I really wish you guys would just LOOK AT WHAT THEY ARE DOING in an effort to protect us. Conservatives respected religion they didn't make it the platform. Now religious zealots seem to be the norm and we have a President that says, "God wants me to be President." Now I ask you, this President is going whack jack with the pills and storming out of press conferences when asked about Ken Lay. What kind of hell are we in for if Kerry wins? What will those 60 days be like when Bush is sitting in the Oval Office thinking GOD has forsaken him. *shivers* If a Democrat said some of these things we'd be looking to lock him up. I believe in God. However, I do not believe that most Christians in this Administration represent the teachings of Christ. Whatever these guys are, Christian isn't what I would call them.

Soback you talk about people being given money for having kids. So I want to take this logic forward ok? OK, so we have a nation that does not support abortion but allows for it. Nobody that is pro-choice is pro baby killing, that is just absurd. They just say that if a woman wants to do this, they believe she has a right. NOW, on the other side of the argument you have this President equating it with murder. OK so now abortion is made illegal and we have unwanted children being born. I'm sorry but I see enough resentment such as you have exhibited, in that if you have these babies you damn well better take care of them YOURSELF. Now, how the hell are you going to take care of all of these unwanted kids that won't be reared with love or anything that you and I might take for granted? Where is the logic in MAKING women that don't want children have them? Meanwhile in Africa there are WAY TOO MANY babies being born and we don't want to send the money over there to support them but we OPPOSE giving these people birth control. I'm sorry the logic is JUST SO DAMN FLAWED. They just shouldn't have sex? Wow now that's reasonable and feasible isn't it?

Yes, Conservatives want to be free. Real Conservatives want to make their own choices in life. That includes their religious beliefs, whether or not they are going to bring a baby into this world, what radio personalities they listen to, etc. etc. Real Conservatives believe in religion as well as science and want stem cell research. Republicans have called this baby farming. THIS ISN'T BABY FARMING THIS IS CELL REPRODUCTION IN A LABORATORY! Disease could be wiped out but somehow God doesn't want that? So why in the hell is this Administration sticking its nose into all of these things? There is nothing emotional about what I am saying, this is the world we are living in right now. Conservative now has to equal religious zealot and if it wasn't such a sore subject and people weren't afraid to call a spade a spade that's what conservatism would be shown to have been perverted into by this group. I suppose the conservatism you speak of Kalshion is now housed in the Libertarian platform. The Libertarians however have no shot at the Presidency and if I want to stop this MADNESS I have to vote Democrat. Kerry isn't the answer but at the very least we won't have LUNATICS imparting their morality on all of us. That isn't the God I know.

Protect us, I am all for that... but why am I suddenly feeling like this government is more interested in protecting us from ourselves than from the enemy? Think about it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Takvah:

Kalshion you're right you don't have to prove anything to me. So I will just continue to be "scared" and call you a LIAR. When you can prove your assertions of fraud, I will be happy to retract my labeling of you as... a LIAR. If you are going to say that you ran a test and state that you PROVED a fact then you need to show the world... or you will be considered a LIAR. Did I use the word LIAR enough?


You really are looking for get into trouble aren't you? Oh well, not my problem, keep cowaring coward.

As for steps

Preatty simple

1. Buy the software

1.2 If you can't buy the software for some odd reason, by an editor. Personally I used an AVID Express , since I have access to the editor because of my T.V. Student status

2. Upon connecting the editor to either you're computer or TV and VCR

4. Take a peice of footage from either off the net (if you're editor is connected to you're computer like mine is) OR, if you're editor is NOT connected to the net, but rather the VCR and TV then take a video tape of something you recorded perferably, in order to recreate the results, take some footage of Kerry or Bush doing a speech that last's for about 2 minutes (maybe more or less depends on how long you record a sound bite)

5. Upload that footage to the story board, you're footage will first appear in an area where footage stay's that isn't being used. Just drag it from there to the story board

6. Upon doing that, access the sound tab and then select the image or footage you've placed on the story board. Then bring down the sound level's of THOSE peices only

7. Once that's done. Take a mic and begin recording either you're voice or someone else's. Attempt to make it sound exactly alike and close to what the other person in the footage is saying by making it similer to lip movement, if there are also any gesture's adjust accordingly

8. Once that's done recording, enhance the sound a tad so that you can hear it (a lot of time's when you upload sound bites you might lose a bit of sound but I havn't experienced that problem with the AVID... yet)

9. Now that that's done, take that sound bite, go to the sound tab, click it, then place the sound either on the 2nd or 3rd line that either has a NOTE (musical note) or a CAMERA (sound from a camera) symbole.

You might have to try more than once to get it right, it isn't easy trust me but it can be done with the right amount of patience

10. Once that is done. PLAY you're little invention and you should see what I'm talking about

Preatty simple steps really. Although I followed a different set since I have more experience but these few step's SHOULD allow you to recreate what I have done (SHOULD)

Super-emposing something over something is what most of these gaming company's do. Cinimatic's for example are created the same way using digital editing software.

Now, in the line of digital editing for DEVELOPERS it's a different story. My editing skill's lay in the area of sound editing and video editing along the NEW'S industry and currently I'm learning a new way of editing (have to keep up to date)

I must tell you though that learning to edit on an AVID IS NOT easy, AVID's are considered professional editing machines. If you don't feel comfortable with an AVID then I'd suggest another form of editing. I know of a few but those name's escape me, the editing software that come's with you're computer, Microsoft Edit, is useless, but could still work (ME is bugged and I can't seem to unbug mine, won't let me upload sound bite's)

And yes, My computer is primarily set up for sound and video editing. That's why most game's don't work on this. Took me a couple week's to get UC to work

If you DO decide to by the AVID Express software wise then you might need an editing graphic's card. Personally this computer has an external graphics card and an internal, the external is specially made by Alienware. The other one is internal and that's my editing card

Editing graphics card's cost a lot of money

there NOT cheap. Mine would've costed me over $600 but thank's to the fact that at the time I was in school, and in a TV program, it only costed me $300

I'm unsure if you can edit using a reguler, non-editing graphics card. I think you can but I don't know as I've never done it

Also, there are two forms of editing. Linear and NON-Linear editing

quote:

Linear Editing - This process is basically mechanical in nature, in that it employs the use of Camcorders, VCR's, Edit Controllers, Titlers, and Mixers to perform the edit functions. This editing technique is performed in linear steps, one cut at a time (or a series of programmed cuts) to its conclusion.

Non-Linear Editing - Gaining in popularity quickly due to advances in technology, pricing, and product availability, this method of video editing utilizes the computer environment to aid in the editing process. This process is almost entirely digital and employs no mechanical functions except for the input of the video sources and its final output to Tape or CD. Editing in this environment is essentially is a visual Cut-and-Paste method.


If need more information from me on replicating this test please send me a PM. I'm sure DS and Jaguar don't want me to post any more about this here since it doesn't contribute to the topic

And Takvah, I'll just ignore what you said since you have no idea what you're talking about. Plus you still like correcting people when that person has a way of spelling something

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And again I am still in the position of having to prove that you aren't a liar. PUT THE THING IN AN INTERNET FORMAT AND POST IT HERE. Hell I will provide you free space on my webserver just so that you can promote it and show the world that the tape was doctored.

All you did was tell me how to prove you're a liar, I told you to prove to me that you aren't.

I'm going to get in trouble? For what? Derek has my email address, hell I've had some nice conversations with Derek, if I'm pissing him off I don't think he's going to have a problem telling me. When he does I'll stop after all I post here at his pleasure, I don't have any delusions to the contrary. I suppose at this point I'm just beating a dead horse but again you did nothing to prove YOUR assertion. I guess the logic is too linear for you to process.

*shrugs*

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"Soback you talk about people being given money for having kids. So I want to take this logic forward ok? OK, so we have a nation that does not support abortion but allows for it. Nobody that is pro-choice is pro baby killing, that is just absurd. They just say that if a woman wants to do this, they believe she has a right. NOW, on the other side of the argument you have this President equating it with murder. OK so now abortion is made illegal and we have unwanted children being born. I'm sorry but I see enough resentment such as you have exhibited, in that if you have these babies you damn well better take care of them YOURSELF. Now, how the hell are you going to take care of all of these unwanted kids that won't be reared with love or anything that you and I might take for granted? Where is the logic in MAKING women that don't want children have them? Meanwhile in Africa there are WAY TOO MANY babies being born and we don't want to send the money over there to support them but we OPPOSE giving these people birth control. I'm sorry the logic is JUST SO DAMN FLAWED. They just shouldn't have sex? Wow now that's reasonable and feasible isn't it?"

See, that's my point, you obviously missed my post. Why do I have to send money to Africa to support their children? Why do I have to give them birth control? I DON'T OWN THEM ANYTHING, Nor do I own the people in this country a living or support of their kids, like always you replied without facts, your whole argument is based on "poor kids" my argument is based on I make the money therefore I should be able to save it for my kids not have it taken away by the government to support someone elses. The money I make should provide for MY kids, not my neighbors.

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NO. You neglected the entire point of what I was saying. There are ways to limit costs where it concerns various social programs that YOU brought up. One of these is to make sure that kids that are not wanted are not BORN. However, you have Bush cradling zygotes to his chest and proclaiming them CHILDREN. The right wants every baby born but then when your taxes are raised to take care of these kids that WEREN'T WANTED you people scream. WELL, I pay my taxes and I take care of my kids, I WANTED THEM. Now you tell some inner city kid that is pregnant, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THAT BABY and then that kid can't support her baby and you say, "Why do I have to pay for the kid's meds because his mother was a crackhead!" Well gee, you people demanded she have that baby! You supported a President that wanted to outlaw abortion. Meanwhile stem cell research might eliminate a lot of disease that we are all forced to absorb the costs of treating in our insurance premiums etc and that's against god too.

What I am saying is that it is HYPOCRITICAL. Get it! Got it! Good! Unfortunately you live in a society. Societies have costs associated with them for roads, infrastructure, defense, etc. I don't hear you *****ing about that. So what are we going to do, allow kids to die of starvation! You said and I quote, "my argument is based on I make the money therefore I should be able to save it for my kids not have it taken away by the government to support someone elses. The money I make should provide for MY kids, not my neighbors." Ok brilliant, do your kids attend a public school? Do they ride a bus to school? Should we just have the poor uneducated in this country? Should we just FORGET about the poor? Well the poor better have those babies and they better not abort them... BUT DAMNED IF I'M GOING TO TAKE ANY RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEM. You are either very short sighted or you're just an idiot. I have no clue which but I hope it is the former rather than the latter. But I suppose because I realize that in order to have a society there are some costs that have to be absorbed by the people in the society I must be a COMMUNIST or a SOCIALIST, well I'm not the one saying have the babies now am I? I'm also not the one saying BABY FARMS for stem cells. Pure idiocy. I think personally we should have a flat tax, that isn't a very communist philosophy now is it?

God help us all.

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ROFL, I came from a cummunist country and guess what, they do have a flat tax which is taken out of your paycheck. And society pays for roads and other services because they USE them, what you are saying is I have to pay for public school because my kids might use it? That's bull, if they don't go to public school, I should pay less in taxes then my neighbor if his kids do use a public school. If you don't have a car do you still pay for regestration? The registration fee goes towards road maintenance, so shouldn't there be a child fee when he becomes of age and is attendint public school? Why do I have to pay for someone else? Hmmm. not a socialist or communist you say, yet you would love to spend the money I make on something that has nothing to do with me. Interesting because that's exactly how the socialist system works it takes from those who contribute and redistributes to everyone. While true capitalism only the ones who contribute enjoy the services and everyone else who doesn't has the opportunity of freedom to MAKE it if they don't then they don't. The socialist system doesn't care if you contribute or not you still benefit. LOL, now where's that part again where you say you are not a socialist or a communist? Thought so, you can say all you want but your views sum it up nicely.

You keep yelling abortion this and abortion that, look, I don't give a damn, do you see me having kids without being able to afford them? If it's against your religion to have an abortion, fine go have kids, go have them all you want, I don't want to have to be obligated to feed them (in US nor Africa) just because you keep poping them out like a farm animal, that's your problem that shouldn't be pushed over on me. The only reason Bush speaks out against it is to speak his mind on it, and as far as I know you can still do that in this country, that includes the abortion, not only the opinion. What I do give a damn is when Kerry says he's going to raise taxes for the rich, I am not rich but I am not a retard and I know that when the rich feel the pinch they pass it on to the middle class which passes it on to the poor. Who do you think owns the business? If the owner of the business pays higher taxes he will just raise the prices to make up for that, now where do you think the taxes that Kerry wants to collect will go? FOR the INCREASE in social spending, now who's the socialist?

So here's the simplest breakdown for you, Kerry raises taxes for the rich, the rich raise the prices to compensate for their profit margins, things cost more, I am left with less disposable income, I ask for a raise, if I get the raise, prices go up even more because now my employer spends more and there comes the profit margin again, with the raise that's more taxes I have to pay, so either way I end up with less disposable income, Kerry spends more on social programs which by the way will also cost him more because of the you guessed it those profit margins and higher labor costs. The true socialist way.

On the other hand, if I don't utilize the services offered and don't have to pay for them I will have more money that I can invest, if I have a choice of pitching inn and supporting the homeless and I chose not to, I end up with more money, if I have a choice of feeding someone elses kids and I chose not to, I end up with more money. When I invest that money and am satisfied with all my bills covered, my house paid, education for my kids and food on my table all the things I <--- see me, not my neighbor, worked for and I decide that I have a little extra I can donate to the hungry or someone who couldn't make it for some reason, then I will. It shouldn't be up to the government to decide how much to take from me and who to give it to because that gives me less options and brings down MY quality of life, the life I try to make for myself by working hard for it, not depending on some hand out or government program. That's the true capitalistic way, I didn't come to this country to relive the birth of yet another socialist system, I came here to make my life and the life of my kids better, and notice how I said MY LIFE, not my neighbors or yours or anyone elses, because like I said before, I am not the one having 10 kids and I am don't own anyone else a living.

[ 08-06-2004, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Soback ]

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Wow Soback, nice post.

Common sense, what a concept, but don't think that Takvah is going to agree with you, he doesn't know history, nor does he realizes the consequences of the actions of which he speaks.

Socialism in ANY form is a losing proposition, and history proves it time and time again.

The US is slipping into that proposition, and that is what, in the end, will destroy us, and it had accelerated, yet no one notices.

Frog in the boiling pot, the water is boiling away, and they don't even realize it.

THey are going to pound what they think into us, whether we like it or not, and the whole time they are going to scream that they are conservative and love the constitution, when in fact, they are really clueless about what that document says and means.

Abortion? I couldn't care less what the president thinks on the issue, it's NOT a federal issue, please see the 10th amendment, Roe vs Wade actually pushed that concept, and limited when and what abortions could be performed, but all they talk about is how it LEGALIZED abortion.

Yes, it said that abortion was legal, and then set up the guidelines for the states to follow. Roe Vs Wade is unconstitutional, because the federal government has NO power over that, according to the constitution itself.

Again, please see the constitution itself, ti states NO where that the federal government has ANY power over ANY issue having to do with abortion.

The constitution tells the federal government what it CAN do, because it CAN'T do anything, BUT what it is TOLD it can do in the constitution.

Therefore, it cannot do ANYTHING that is NOT explicitly told it can in the constitution. That is why we are able to AMEND it.

Don't like it Takvah, take it up with the founders...

AGAIN, let me stress this, the federal government can ONLY do what the constitution tells it that it can do, ALL other arguments, laws, morals, etc, are to the people or the states.

Here, let me just quote it for you.

The 10th amendment.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Not delegated to the United states by the constitution, NOT DELEGATED....Interesting turn of phrase, do you know what it means?

And we cannot of course forget.

Article I

Section 1. All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

Herein granted, in other words this is what you CAN do, you can't DO anything else.

Now hopefully Takvah, you understand when I say the constitution is dead.

And has been since the civil war, and it has been slowly accelerating down the tracks at unimaginable speed now.

Prescription drug program, WTF? Where in the constitution does it say they can do that? SSI? where does it say they can do that? Welfare? Where does it say the federal government has any power to do ANYTHING like that?

WHERE? I would REALLY, REALLY like to know, and don't give me that general welfare crap either, because you should know better......

Yeah, I don't like Bush much either, but Kerry is 1000 times worse......

The constitution that you say you love is Dead, and has been for a while, the federal government is out of control and there is NOTHING that can stop it now. Bread and circuses, and LOTS of it.....

History Takvah, History......... Tells me ALL that I need to know.....

[ 08-07-2004, 01:53 AM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

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quote:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


Neither the states nor the people control the army. Checkmate.

Edit: Might as well make a sad attempt at steering this thread on topic.

As a total laymen concerning military matters and procedures I feel that someone that actually served (for however long) is better than someone that got into a non combat unit.

If you really want me to be cruel people are crawling out of the woodwork to denounce Kerry. No one can remember Bush AT ALL.

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Actually, the federal army Appropriations can only exist for 2 years, according to the constitution.

That is why they rebudget and reappropriate for the Army and military in general every 2 years.

The militia were the states armies, and are supposed to be controlled by them alone, although the feds can borrow the militia from time to time, BUT, the officers of those militias MUST be appointed by the states they come from.

The militia is NOT the national guard, that is a bird of a whole different color.

THe military is one of the FEW constitutional things that the federal government is allowed to do, because their MAIN job is the general defense of the nation.

And as far as the noncombat unit is concerned, Bush was in a national guard wing that flew sorties out of Houston to protect US airspace. He could have very easily have seen combat, be it Cuba, or any other foreign aircraft.

As far as Kerry is concerned, he served 4 months in Vietnam, and that 4 months, somehow received 3 purple hearts, which got him out, a silver star and a bronze star.

I know a NUMBER of Infantry and field artillery guys that were in Vietnam, the MOST purple hearts one had was 2, and he had been there for 2 tours, 2 YEARS, and he was in a REAL combat unit, his first Purple heart took him out of action for 3 weeks, the 2nd took him out for 6 weeks.

Kerry did NOT MISS ONE day of duty because of the wounds that he got Purple hearts for.

Gardner, one of his gunners that was on his boat for 2 1/2 months, says, UNDER oath, via a sworn afidafit, and on the radio, that if the boat did get shot at, which did NOT happen that often, that Kerry would turn the boat and run away.

Yep, he's a Democrat.....

War hero, HAH, reporting for duty? Where was he in Vietnam for the other 8 months, he RAN, as soon as he got someone to sign for his Rose thorn prick Purple heart, from a grenade that he himself had launched, and there was NO enemy fire at the time. As soon as he got his third purple heart, he got the heck out of dodge.

Reporting for Duty? Yeah, right......

[ 08-07-2004, 03:11 AM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

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Actually, the federal army Appropriations can only exist for 2 years, according to the constitution.

That is why they rebudget and reappropriate for the Army and military in general every 2 years.


Interesting piece of information. Also just goes to show "they" can get around almost any rule they want.

quote:

And as far as the noncombat unit is concerned, Bush was in a national guard wing that flew sorties out of Houston to protect US airspace. He could have very easily have seen combat, be it Cuba, or any other foreign aircraft.


And I could see a polar bear in my front yard tomorrow. Possible but highly unlikely. Then there is the fact that it didn't actually happen so we are right back full circle to my layman's (I incorrectly pluralized myself above) perception that serving is better than a cushy guard unit.

Personally I think they both had political aspirations since high school and both did the bare minimum so they could have it as a brownie point on their resume`.

quote:

War hero, HAH

I'm certainly not claiming that. Questionable service in the army vs questionable service in the guard. I think this one is a wash.

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Bush not serving time? hmmm

Believe it not, my father was in the military DURING vietnam but the unit he was in was NEVER deployed, so he NEVER saw combat

so it IS possible that people serving during a war will never see combat depending on what there field is, my father was part of photograhy and according to him and a friend of his (who did see combat) they had all the photographer's they needed

Again it IS highly possible that he never saw combat but he STILL served which STILL counts

As for Kerry? Don't get me started please... you all know my stance on this traitor

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As for Kerry? Don't get me started please... you all know my stance on this traitor

Ok, one more time.

Why, exactly is Kerry a traitor?

BTW, does your father also consider Kerry a traitor?

[ 08-07-2004, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: Cc ]

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Originally posted by Cc:

Ok, one more time.

Why, exactly is Kerry a traitor?

LOL!

You're KIDDING me right? COUNTLESS fact's and evidence have been posted here and you STILL believe he isn't a traitor? Man... you have no sense of keeping an open mind and doing you're own research or else you wouldn't have said that

And as for my father, my father served during vietnam although he wasn't deployed... however he HAS heard what Kerry did during vietnam by some of his buddy's who HAD been deployed

So yes, my father is a firm believer that Kerry IS a traitor. He believe's more than I do that Kerry should be put up infront of a firing squad and executed.

CC, Just by what you've posted here on this board here's my thoughts

You believe Kerry is better than Bush, you believe that Kerry will do a better job. Yet has the thought ever occured that Terrorist's just might WANT Kerry in office because of his action's in Vietnam?

Think about it.. The terrorist's havn't set ONE FOOT on american soil since 9/11, they weren't expecting Bush to launch such a strike against them and in doing so it caught them off guard even you can't denie that (and if you do, you're more niave than I thought)

The terrorist's don't want Bush in office because while he's there they can't touch us, they won't risk it because there afriad Bush will make the call. And if does it's possible Afgan and Iraq will turn into a diamond mine

Now you're asking me, would I care if he made that Call.. no I wouldn't, in fact I ENCOURAGE him to make that call... in my opinion Afgan and Iraq are problem country's and need to delt with, with any way possible. That includ's droping it if need be

Let me say this, if Bush had DECLARED war on Iraq and Afgan back in 2001... we wouldn't be here right now.. in fact both of those place's would most likely be Diamond Mine's right now

You won't trust me cause you're more Bent on the destruction of the US... Kerry will not bring the US to success... he'll only start off where Clinton left off - THAT is a fact

Fact's are placed all over this board, you just need to read them and understand them. You need to perform you're own research cause right now you have no clue what you're getting yourself into

And yes, to answer a question that I'm sure someone else will likely ask, Was I ever a liberal?

Yes I was, my father and I fought a long time ago about Clinton. I wanted him re'elected cause I THOUGHT he had done a good job

Until my father told me this. "If you so hell bent on ruining this country then I don't want you in this house", keep in mind I was in middle school when this fight occured. My mother said that was VERY harsh but. IT GOT THE POINT THROUGH

I performed my own research, talked to people I knew and those I didn't know.. that's when I discovered stuff about Clinton that I hadn't heard of before. After he wasn't elected and he confessed to several thing's (betraying america) I knew then that I was glad I wasn't able to vote, for I would've voted in a traitor and for all I know America wouldn't be here right now

THAT'S why I stress to you people to do you're own research, form you're own opinion's FROM that reserach, spend day's, week's and if possible MONTH'S figuring out what such and such mine's

I don't know about Jaguar, but that's how I find out weather something is true or not. I've spent sometime's countless day's and at one point even a month finding out if something was true or not, the time spent is well worth it

Honestly, when this war started I didn't like Bush.. in fact I hated him like hell. But after I searched for the reason's for this war, and for the reason's why we continue it...

My sister serve's in this war, she's in Administration.. her friend serve's as a marine, do either of them feel guilty? No they don't, My sister hasn't done her own research but she want's Bush back in office cause she know's he's done a good job.. not only by the fact that there havn't been any terrorist attack's since 9/11 (due to our security, and if you argue about that then you seriously need help because you apperently havn't been outside looking around.. no bomb's anywhere.. no death's by terrorist's on american soil)

Everyone in my family believe's that america will cease to exist if Kerry is elected. I stand by that because not only is he a traitor, but his war record is suspious, his purple hearts are a joke. But he's also lied about countless thing's, he's also never passed a Bill or voted on something that could benefit the US. And don't start off by saying I got that from the ad's on TV... no.. I knew about that well BEFORE those AD's started, how? Like I said, I performed my own research and discovered it. I don't want him in office

Let me ask you this CC, and answer this truthfully (meaning, NO ONE else answer) Also, don't quote what I've said just answer the question please (and if you do quote then I'll know you havn't read this)

Have you ever researched these candidates? Please tell me truthfully

[ 08-08-2004, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Kalshion ]

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quote:

You believe Kerry is better than Bush,

I never said that.That's something you have inferred.

quote:

Think about it.. The terrorist's havn't set ONE FOOT on american soil since 9/11

and how EXACTLY do you know that?

quote:

Now you're asking me, would I care if he made that Call.. no I wouldn't, in fact I ENCOURAGE him to make that call... in my opinion Afgan and Iraq are problem country's and need to delt with, with any way possible. That includ's droping it if need be

It's a good thing that you are not in control of the contry.

quote:

Let me say this, if Bush had DECLARED war on Iraq and Afgan back in 2001... we wouldn't be here right now.. in fact both of those place's would most likely be Diamond Mine's right now

You are crazy.

quote:

Until my father told me this. "If you so hell bent on ruining this country then I don't want you in this house", keep in mind I was in middle school when this fight occured. My mother said that was VERY harsh but. IT GOT THE POINT THROUGH

I think we have reached the crux of the problem.

quote:

Everyone in my family believe's that america will cease to exist if Kerry is elected.

Huh...

quote:

Have you ever researched these candidates? Please tell me truthfully

No, not serious research.Including GW.

Actually, I would prefer to see Colin Powell as President.

[ 08-08-2004, 01:10 AM: Message edited by: Cc ]

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You would prefer to see Colin Powell as president?

When Bush is done with his last term, you know who I want as president?

Condoleeza Rice...

She is almost a good executive as Bush, and has the knowledge and the go get it done attitude that will allow us to really make a difference in the war on terror, she will continue the policies that Bush has started, and have kept us safe.

The other reason, I want to see a Republican Black Female with a doctorate and political experience of her own, go up against Hillary CLinton, White Female Democrat lawyer, and Senator from a state she has never lived in.

That is What I want to see, besides the fact that Dr. Rice is one sharp lady, intelligent, knowledgeable, and most of all, thinks of America FIRST.

OH, and if Kerry is elected, the last of the constitution will be flushed down the commode, and the United States as a constitutional Republic will indeed be over and done.THe United States as it was meant to be, will COMPLETELY cease to exist.

It is almost done with now, but with Kerry elected, forget about it......

That's when all the fun will begin..........

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quote:

When Bush is done with his last term, you know who I want as president?

Condoleeza Rice...

Why not?

However, I did not realize she was running for president this term.

[ 08-08-2004, 01:52 AM: Message edited by: Cc ]

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You're a funny boy CC, but Bush is going to win this one, and Kerry, thank god, will be out of public office for good.

Therasa and he can go play in their million dollar mansions and fly on their private jets, and have a good life, and NOT interfere in mine, nor reach into my pocket book at the point of a gun.

Kerry is going to lose this election, he HAS to, otherwise Hillary can't run in 2008, and she is NOT going to wait until 2012, so tell me, is Kerry gonna win this election?

I don't think so, not only is the MAJOR player in his party gonna work against him, his WHOLE life's story and record will go against him, this will be a landslide, close on the heels of Reagan/Mondale. No matter how much the press would wish otherwise, although, I expect them to turn on him here very shortly.

THe Clintons are just waiting for the most opportune time.

Just watch.....

Kerry is about to have his life turned upside down, he is gonna feel like he has been hit by a truck.

It's gonna hurt, and he is gonna CRY!!! LOL

Meltdown city, just watch, he is going to have a MAJOR meltdown on national television, and the Clintons will be shrieking in glee.....

So will I, but for other reasons....

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