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President Bush says he never authorized illegal interrogations


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Could care less

There terrorists, plain and simple, they should not be covered by any convention. They use torture on our soldier's, we should use torture on them.. that's the ONLY way where going to get ANY information from them, treating them with care and respect will not accomplish ANYTHING

And also, why the heck did you link to the Communist New's Network? You do realize that 90% of the stuff they say is FALSE and misleading right?

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quote:

Originally posted by Kalshion:

There terrorists, plain and simple, they should not be covered by any convention. They use torture on our soldier's, we should use torture on them.. that's the ONLY way where going to get ANY information from them, treating them with care and respect will not accomplish ANYTHING

Guilty until proven innocent...? An eye for an eye....?

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there comes one story to my mind I saw in a documentary:

a former syrian citizen living in canada (also had a family) had to take a business trip to the US. he was arrested at the border for no reason (just for being a syrian citizen once in his life) transported to jordan by the CIA (yes, they work together on this "special service"!) and thrown into a small cell where he was tortured for 10 months. he would have surely died there without some interested journalists.

I rest my case.

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quote:

Originally posted by Kalshion:

Could care less

There terrorists, plain and simple, they should not be covered by any convention. They use torture on our soldier's, we should use torture on them.. that's the ONLY way where going to get ANY information from them, treating them with care and respect will not accomplish ANYTHING

That is so sad....

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Guest Fox__Trot

sad yes but true

I dont care if 99% of all the people there locked up ARE innocent if just -one- them leads to a succsefull stop to -any- terroist attack -anywhere- in the world it was worth it.

The value of human life is over rated.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 4 weeks later...

Whats sad is that these cowardly b------- are treated better than many good American citizens. They get their excersise and prayer rugs, and all that other crap. If they are caught complaining, praying to allah, or if they so much as glare at an American guards, they should be punished. They are NOT POWS, they are the worst kind of animal on the face of the Earth. So yes, torture should most definatly be used on them. Not because most of them deserve it, but because doing so could quite likley save many American lives.

Speaking of Arabs, this whole racial profiling thing is really starting to annoy me. If you are Arab, you should be searched much more thouroghly. Is it biased and unfair? Oh yes, but thats just too bad. They're lucky we didn't we didn't round them all up and put them in concentration camps like they did to the Japanese in WWII (I don't agree with concentration camps, just closer watching so don't flame me and call me inhumane). Racial profiling is a neccessary inconvinience if another 9/11 is to be averted. I now await your flames...

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Shasla, flaming another is strictly forbidden here, although we DO get some heated debates. What one might not think is flaming another might

Then again, you're dealing with people who can't handle the truth. So they might consider ANYTHING you say as a Flame, I'd say more but I'll tell ya more in a PM later today

What's wrong El Chi? Can't stand the fact that I DO NOT like Terrorists?

Look let me put it this way

I don't care if there White

Black

Mexican

Philopinoes

Japanese

Germen

Italians

Spanish

English

or all those other countrys

IF you blow up a building YOU are not deserving of ANY rights in this country and should be interrogated as such. I could care less WHAT that person says, they blew there rights away when they killed innocent people

Face it, if where going to win this battle where going to have to throw out one of our most important conventions, The Geneva Convention, and quite frankly I would much rather we fight WITHOUT it than WITH IT cause it hasn't done us any good since World War 2

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DREADA, your right about that.

If we torture them their just fight back, we HAVE to show we are not monsters like they make us out to be.

No American military personnel should never (unless in the line of fire) treat anyone as if they are inferior. I could never harm another person that wasn't self-defense.

The military should contain the pinicle of American and human individuals. People who obey the constitution and basic human values.

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quote:

There terrorists, plain and simple, they should not be covered by any convention. They use torture on our soldier's, we should use torture on them.. that's the ONLY way where going to get ANY information from them, treating them with care and respect will not accomplish ANYTHING

Sounds, so much, akin to the German SS ideology, it literally makes my skin crawl, to read such statements.

Don't you think, you had better be, pretty darn sure, of their guilt, FIRST??

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Street you havn't listened to a single word I've said... or rather read

A person is a terrorist if they've commited terrorist acts, if there is evidence then my statement applys

But, to be honest, I believe this should apply to EVERYONE not only terrorists, but to murders, rapists, child abusers, EVERYONE who commits a crime should have there rights taken away and executed if found guilty of that crime

This will never come because the government wants to control everyone's lives (prime example, SCHOOL) Sorry but I can take care of my own life thank you very much

Anywho, a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist, they should not be bargened with, not be negotiated with, and differently not taken seriously

quote:

constitution and basic human values

WHAT Constitution? You mean the one the liberal's and democrats keep tossing aside so they can get there way? I'm sorry MRX but the constitution is nothing more than a JOKE now, NO ONE follows it except those who are truely patriotic and even then

A prime example is such is the taxes that where passed here in Nevada, the constitution was suppose to PROTECT us from such taxes and laws... but guess what? The Nevada Supreme Court said "To hell with the constitution", so I ask.. WHAT constitution are you refering to?

quote:

If we torture them their just fight back, we HAVE to show we are not monsters like they make us out to be.

What you're suggesting is that we treat these murders and terrorists with kindness and respect, something they DO NOT deserve

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Every human being deserves respect. Not to mention it is YOUR right and JOB to UPHOLD and ENFORCE the constitution. If you don't like what the court said. GET INVOLVED! Get a petition go online, do something that says NO!

Fight for your rights and those right that EVERY person has.

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quote:

Originally posted by DREADA:

I think the official line should be: Terrorists should have
LESS
rights than POWS, full-stop.

Now what is considered less may vary from country to country behind closed doors, but I think that'd be justified given the situation.

quote:

Originally posted by shasla5:

...they are the worst kind of animal on the face of the Earth...

Racial profiling is a neccessary inconvinience if another 9/11 is to be averted.

As for 'racial profiling'... I'm not even going there with you. I'd hope tha majority of moral Americans adults would have more intelligence than that, for history's sake.

IMO comments like that quickly confuse the issue of who's the animal and who's the human...


Hmm, let's ee, so far 99.99% of the terrorist attacks have been made by middle Eastern men of Arab descent, 20-35 years of age, Muslim, and fanatical.

No little old ladies in wheelchairs, no blonde and blue eyed middle aged women, Middle eastern men of Arab descent, between the ages of 20-35 years.

Racial profiling sounds like it is pretty much called for in this respect, don't you think?

Or do you really have a death wish?

This PC crap you guys are spouting is PC gone amock......

99.99% of ALL terrorist attacks have been made by middle eastern males of Arab descent, between the ages of 20-35 years.

Wow, if we actually concentrated on the ones that are actually terrorists, we just MIGHT be able to stop any further attacks....

What a fricking concept...

I am NOT talking concentration camps, I am talking a little closer checking, double metal detectors, perhaps a bomb sniffing dog, a THOROUGH search for bomb making materials, background checks, etc, of middle eastern men of Arab descent, between the ages of 20-35 years.

The passengers that fit this profile are maybe 2-3%, wow, if we actually CONCENTRATE on those that fit the profile of a terrorist, we could free up a LOT of security to do other security things, INSTEAD of searching randomly, little old ladies in wheelchairs, WASP males, Black males and pregnant ladies etc.

You do a thorough search of those that ACTUALLY fit the profile, and you just MAY catch a terrorist.

WOW, what a bizarre concept....

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Jaguar - There are people who aren't middle eastern, and who ARE terrorists. Take Timothy McVeigh. He sure isnt arab. And how about the KKK? Sure doesnt look arab to me. And how about abortion clinic bombers?

Have some common sense, Jaguar. Arab does NOT equal terrorist, just as non-arab does not equal non-terrorist.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mrxknown:

Every human being deserves respect. Not to mention it is YOUR right and JOB to UPHOLD and ENFORCE the constitution. If you don't like what the court said. GET INVOLVED! Get a petition go online, do something that says NO!

Fight for your rights and those right that EVERY person has.

Uhhh MRX, that's exactly what we did... before and after, but the courts just tossed it out and said "The people in Las Vegas have no idea what there talking about"

Unfortantly, there is nothing more we can do. We've got several petition's going around RIGHT NOW but the courts here won't listen

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quote:

Originally posted by Kartoffel:

Jaguar - There are people who aren't middle eastern, and who ARE terrorists. Take Timothy McVeigh. He sure isnt arab. And how about the KKK? Sure doesnt look arab to me. And how about abortion clinic bombers?

Have some common sense, Jaguar. Arab does NOT equal terrorist, just as non-arab does not equal non-terrorist.

Give me a FRICKING break here Kartoffel, and use some common sense, you have some of that right?

Timothy Mcveigh did NOT hijack a plane and ram it into the federal building in Oklahoma city, the KKK did NOT hijack planes and slam them into black neighborhoods.

Middle Eastern Men, of ARAB descent, between the ages of 20 and 35 years, are the MOST likely to HIJACK planes and Slam them into buildings.

Can we get real here?

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quote:

Originally posted by DREADA:

I don't think there is an alternative.

BS, the alternative is to profile the most likely people that are terrorists that are looking to kill massive amounts of people in one shot.

That being, Middle Eastern Men, of Arab descent, between the ages of 20 and 35 years of age....

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Terrorism, defined by dictionary.com

Terrorism, n

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Just because arabs may be the most likely to commit acts of terrorism, does NOT make them the only ones who commit acts of terrorism.

Flying a plane into a building is NOT the only act of terrorism. Using force to intimidate, is terrorism. Bombing an abortion clinic as an attempt to get rid of abortion, is terrorism. Just because it doesnt fit your narrow definition of the word, does not make it so.

The question here, is can YOU get real?

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Kartoffel, this is a war against Islamo fascism, a war against self declared, holy warriors of Islam.

This is a war against the people who blew up the world trade center, who tried to sink the USS Cole, blew up marine barracks etc, etc ad nauseum.

Use the common sense that god gave little green apples and figure it out...

For god sake, the terrorists that we are NOW fighting fit the follwing profile.

Middle Eastern Male, of Arab descent, between the ages of 20 and 35 years.

Why is that so fricking hard for you to figure out?

I couldn't care less what the dictionary says, you know who we are fighting, I know who we are fighting.

Quit playing word games, quit with the PC deathwish crap and get real.

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quote:

IMO comments like that quickly confuse the issue of who's the animal and who's the human...

You are actually comparing me with them? You are saying that I am on the same level as those who killed thousands to serve their hatefull cause of killing the "infidel"? I must be reading this wrong.

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quote:

Originally posted by DREADA:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

BS, the alternative is to profile the most likely people that are terrorists that are looking to kill massive amounts of people in one shot.

Jaguar, I'm NOT denying that many terrorists have been middle eastern men of Arab descent. What I'm saying is that focusing on that group *alone* will leave a nation or a community vulnerable. These terrorist aren't stupid. Its been proven time and time again. Isn't that blindingly obvious?

Organisations like FBI, CIA, MI5, MI6 etc acknowledge this simple fact.

Blatant racial profiling followed by harassment of certain members of a community has the potential for doing more damage than good.

I think minimising terrorism in the 21st Century will ultimately drive governments towards more expensive, resource-intensive "big brother-type" operations world wide (whether we like it or not) from a global security perspective right down to the local grass roots level so that *everyone* is monitored (your neighbours included), whether your from Afghanistan or the southern state of Virginia!

Food for thought:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/1731568.stm

.

http://www.brownequalsterrorist.com/blogar...warns_alqai.php

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor..._terror_warning


Again, let's get real here, shall we?

Every one of those articles said extremist Muslim.

Richard Reid is one of the 1% that they have been able to recruit that was NOT an Arab, but he was MUSLIM....

Do we see any kind of a pattern here?

Any idiot that says that 99% of the terrorists are NOT Middle Eastern Men of Arab descent, Muslim, and between the ages of 20 and 35 is LYING to you.

Profiling works, and will continue to work, no matter how the liberals squeal about it.

Oh boy, we are going to change our profiling because 1% of the terrorists MAY NOT fit the profile.

BS, profiling works because 99% of them fit that profile...

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Apparently Jaguar really doesnt understand how his beliefs will work in the real world.

Profiling arabs will get some of the arab terrorists - and piss off the ~90% who have legitimate buisness. And it'l let all the non-arab terrorists through, just fine (and they'll switch to non-arab operatives, if we start profiling arabs, making it a moot point).

Also, itl fill up Guantanamo in like 2 days.

Which is going to cost a fortune.

And they'll keep coming, if we keep dealing with them, using such heavy-handed policies.

It's going to take a major policy shift, coming to an understanding with them (NOT giving in, mind you) to end the arab terrorist threat.

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