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This is the speech from the President of Afghanistan, that NO one, NOT one piece of media reported.

Thanks Steve for bringing it to my attention, and where the speech was.

Here is his speech, yeah, Bush's policy has been a failure, yeah, right, the left WISHES!!

It's working Ladies and Gentleman, and if it can work in Afghanistan, a basket case of a country 2 years ago, it sure as heck can work in Iraq.

Here's the speech, Lefties, read it and weep, because this is why President Bush is a GREAT president, this is why Bush's policies are EXCELLENT, and are WORKING.

No matter how much you scream and yell about how awful and terrible everything is going, you are WRONG, because the Buish doctrine is working, has been working and continues to work.

Here's the speech......

quote:

WASHINGTON ÔÇö Afghan President Hamid Karzai spoke before a joint meeting of Congress on Tuesday to say his country needed the continued help of the United States. Following is a transcript of his speech:

Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Thank you for the great honor.

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Vice President, members of Congress, distinguished guests, the great people of the United States of America, it is my distinct honor to speak on behalf of the Afghan people in this august assembly.

I thank you and the people of this great country for your generosity and commitment to our people. You have supported us with your resources, with your leadership in the world community and, most importantly, with the precious lives of your soldiers.

(APPLAUSE)

With your support, Afghanistan has accomplished a number of significant achievements. We have begun to rebuild our schools. Over 5 million children, boys and girls, are attending school today.

(APPLAUSE)

We have also commenced to develop health centers to provide basic services to our people, especially to our women and children who have suffered the most during the decades of war and turmoil.

(APPLAUSE)

We have embarked upon the reconstruction of our roads to encourage traders and businessmen to transport products to markets.

We have started to reconstitute our national army, our national institutions, national police in order to both defend our sovereignty and provide security to our citizens.

Our national army is being trained by American forces, American troops, and wherever we have deployed them, the Afghan people have welcomed them.

We have initiated the fight against narcotics to save our children, to save your children and children across the world from the evil of addiction to drugs.

The confidence of our citizens in the future of our country is clearly signified by the return of 3 million refugees in the past two years.

Once again, ladies and gentlemen, Afghanistan is the home of all Afghans.

(APPLAUSE)

And to illustrate further, we have today in Afghanistan our former king back in his old home. We have today in Afghanistan the leaders of the former resistance of Afghanistan against the Soviet Union. We have also millions of refugees who left Afghanistan because of tyranny and invasion. They're all back in their country, and more are returning.

Ladies and gentlemen, Afghanistan has emerged from a very dark era, one of oppression and terror.

We have adopted an enlightened constitution establishing a democratic Islamic government. It guarantees equal rights and equal protection for every citizen of our country.

With your support, men and women of Afghanistan have now equal rights before the law and the constitution. The new constitution replaces the Taliban-imposed gender discrimination by assigning 25 percent of the seats in our future parliament for women.

(APPLAUSE)

Together, we have furthered democracy by creating a climate where 35 percent of the voters so far registered for our election are women.

(APPLAUSE)

And as I speak today, ladies and gentlemen, I received a report this morning from the election commission: In the central part of the country, the registrators for voting are more than 50 percent women.

And in the rest of the country they are more than 30 percent.

And as this process continues until September, we will have at least 6 to 7 million people registered, and I'm sure we will reach nearly 50 percent of them to be women.

(APPLAUSE)

We have secured an open and inclusive society, where minority languages are accorded official recognition and where the press enjoys unprecedented freedom.

We, the Afghan people, have once again established ourselves as a proud and sovereign nation.

(APPLAUSE)

And without your support and commitment, and withoutsary goal.

We are also confronted with the evil of narcotics. Drug profits finance private militias, terrorists and extremists. Drug profits undermine our efforts to build a healthy and legitimate national economy. Drugs threaten the lives and future of children, yours and ours.

We are determined to cleanse Afghanistan from this menace.

(APPLAUSE)

In the economic dimension, despite our achievements over the past two and a half years, we continue to be one of the poorest countries.

We still have the second highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the world. We have one of the highest illiteracy rates. Very few Afghans have access to safe drinking water.

While our country has a rich hydro-electric potential, oil, gas and coal reserves, only 6 percent of the Afghans have reliable access to electricity.

While Afghanistan has great rivers, our farmers, ironically, suffer from a shortage of water.

Even now, our vast mineral resources, such as iron ore, copper and precious stones, remain undeveloped.

Our delicious fruits are not reaching major markets due to the lack of refrigeration and proper marketing.

Ladies and gentlemen, these are significant impediments, yet we are confident that with your continued support and commitment, we the Afghan people will overcome them as we have triumphed over other challenges in the past two years.

To succeed, we ask for your continued investment. Afghanistan is open for business, and American companies are most welcome.

Together, we will make Afghanistan a great success and an enduring example of a prosperous, democratic society.

(APPLAUSE)

Our shared success in Afghanistan is vital to achieving victory over the greatest menace the world faces today: terrorism and extremism.

(APPLAUSE)

Long before the horrific tragedy of September 11, terrorists subjected the people of Afghanistan to unspeakable brutality and oppression. Even though we were among the most pious Muslims in the world, we were the first and foremost victims of Al Qaeda.

In the name of Islam, a religion of peace and tolerance, they terrorized and killed the Muslim people of Afghanistan, and deprived us of our basic rights.

These atrocities continued for many years and the world remained unengaged.

The tragedy of September 11 once again tied the destinies of our two nations. You came to Afghanistan to defeat terrorism, and we Afghans welcomed and embraced you for the liberation of our country.

(APPLAUSE)

Together we ended the rule of terrorism... The Afghan people are and will remain with you in this struggle.

(APPLAUSE)

Ladies and gentlemen, in this great chamber in the house of the American people, democracy and liberty thrive.

Afghans are honored to have become partners in this noble tradition. The Afghan people will not forget your help, and will always remember and cherish your friendship.

The Afghan people desire to further build on this solid foundation of mutual trust and friendship, by creating a strong partnership between our two nations.

We must build a partnership that will consolidate our achievements and enhance stability, prosperity and democracy in Afghanistan and in the region. This requires sustaining and accelerating the reconstruction of Afghanistan, through long-term commitment, a free trade agreement between the United States and Afghanistan, and providing incentives to the private sector for investing in Afghanistan.

We must enhance our strategic partnership. The security of our two nations are intertwined.

In December of 2001, a U.S. bomb went astray and exploded a few meters from where I was staying. This was the last day of our resistance against the Taliban. This was the day that the Bonn process announced me as the chairman. This was the day the Taliban were to come and surrender.

And this was also the day that a stray bomb came to us and killed more than 20 of my people and also four U.S. soldiers.

And in the middle of all that confusion and pain, an old man walked up to me. I did not know him, I had not seen him before, and I have not seen him since then. He came up to me and said, "Mr. Karzai, go to the Americans, tell them that in a war like this things like that happen. Tell them not to lose heart. Tell them that we shall continue to fight, and we must win."

And, ladies and gentlemen, upon my arrival in the United States last week, I stopped at Fort Drum in New York to meet with some of your troops who had served in Afghanistan.

Senator Clinton graciously came to receive us. We honored two American soldiers who recently returned from Afghanistan, and who, a few months ago in Kandahar, were travelling in a vehicle.

Somebody, a terrorist, threw a grenade at them. The grenade landed in their vehicle. They took the grenade. Instead of throwing it into the street, where there were people around them, civilians, these heroic men stuck the grenade under their seat. The grenade exploded. Fortunately they survived, but they were badly injured.

To us, this is also the example of heroism and care for humanity, and we are proud of these two American soldiers.

(APPLAUSE)

These stories tell a tale of partnership, tell a tale of joint struggle, tell a tale of care and courage and care for humanity.

Ladies and gentlemen, together we have a long road ahead, but we will move forward to make the world a better place. And for us in Afghanistan, we remember you for every help that you have given us. And we will have that in our books written in golden letters.

In this road, the journey is one of success and victory.

And we both have triumphed and we will continue to triumph and win the war against terrorism, and make the world a better place for us and the rest of the world.

And may God bless America and Afghanistan and our two nations.

Thank you very much.


The Bush doctrine works, and WE are winning, and the TERRORISTS are LOSING!!!

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Now good news from Iraq, and theres LOTS of it, even if you don't hear about it from the mainstream press.

From US News.... US News

quote:

The good news coming from Iraq

By Michael Barone

In the audience when Dick Cheney spoke Thursday at the American Enterprise Institute was Ahmed Chalabi, head of the Iraqi National Congress and one of the 25 members of the Iraqi National Governing Council appointed earlier this month by administrator L. Paul Bremer. Chalabi did not speak to Cheney, who entered and left the stage without speaking privately to anyone, but Chalabi did exchange warm greetings with Defense Department official Harold Rhode and with Judith Miller of the New York Times and other reporters.

Talking to Chalabi afterward, I got a far more optimistic picture of Iraq than has been painted in most of the press. The north and the south are calm; opposition to the United States in Baghdad and the Sunni triangle to the north is limited. There are no clashes between Shiite and Sunni Muslims or between Kurds and other Iraqis. Meetings of the organizing council have been harmonious and productive. Much of the negative press, Chalabi argues, is due to translators who have their own anti-American agendas and give American and other reporters their version of what is going on rather than what the Iraqis being interviewed are saying.

Looking ahead, Chalabi described his proposal for the convening of a convention to write a new Iraqi constitution. Provisional councils of 200 members would be appointed by the Governing Council in each small area of Iraq. Their members would include representatives of leading families, tribes, and ethnic and religious groups. These provisional councils would elect one delegate to a constitutional convention for each 100,000 IraqisÔÇôabout 250 in all. That convention would proceed to write a constitution to be submitted to a vote of the people. It is too early, Chalabi argues, to allow elections to select the members of the constitutional convention; as others have pointed out, the best-organized forces in IraqÔÇôBaathist remnants and pro-Iranian groupsÔÇôare hostile to democratic institutions and the rule of law.

Chalabi says that Bremer supports his proposal but that British representatives do not. Chalabi's American aide, Francis Brooke, predicts that the Governing Council will adopt a proposal much like Chalabi's. Chalabi foresees the provisional councils' being chosen this summer and the constitutional convention at work in the fall. If so, this will be amazingly rapid progress toward creation of a democratic, rule-of-law Iraq-much faster than the progress that was made in Germany and Japan after World War II.

One wonders whether the American and world press will be able to ignore most of this progress as it has been ignoring the other progress made since April in Iraq. Stories have focused on the killing of American soldiers, apparently by Baathist elements. But this should not be surprising: the pro-Hitler Werewolves underground shot and killed many American soldiers for months after the surrender of Germany in 1945. News media obsessed with the reliability of intelligence about Iraqi attempts to purchase uranium in Africa have tended to gloss over or ignore the progress set out by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld in his July 24 press briefing. It is worth setting out:

The formation of an Iraqi national army has begun.

30,000 Iraqi police have been hired.

An Iraqi civil defense corps is being formed.

Coalition forces have captured or killed 38 of Iraq's 55 most wanted.

Thousands of lower-level Baath Party loyalists have been rounded up or otherwise dealt with.

The Iraqi Central Bank has been made independent.

Iraq has returned to the world oil market. All of Iraq's universities have reopened.

Power and water are, in most places, at prewar levels, and we're making progress in Baghdad.

The food redistribution system has been restarted.

Nearly all of Iraq's 240 hospitals and 1,200 clinics are open.

Over 100 newspapers have begun publishing.

In all major cities and in 85 percent of the towns, municipal councils have been formed of Iraqis.

Ambassador Bremer has helped establish a new National Governing Council. It has begun exercising executive authority, appointing ministers, preparing the way for a new national constitution.

All this is tremendously encouraging. Many of these things might have happened earlier had planning not been conducted on two tracks, by the State Department and the Defense Department, until George W. Bush ordered January 20 that Defense would be in charge. State planners had envisioned a very different process, one which would not have put Iraq on the track toward democracy and the rule of law. Fortunately, Defense has been able to do that, with critical help from Chalabi and other Iraqis who share those goals. The press coverage and the criticisms of many Democrats seem based on an assumption that Iraq is somehow a rerun of Vietnam. But the facts on the ground in Iraq should not be squeezed into the Vietnam template. Progress is being made in establishing the first rule-of-law democracy in an Arab countryÔÇôan example with the potential of changing the whole region for the better. You may have to search hard for it in most American news media, but there is good news coming from Iraq.


And what else have I found?

Opinion Journal

quote:

Where to Find Good News

The big story in Iraq is the little stories.

BY DANIEL HENNINGER

Friday, September 26, 2003 12:01 a.m. EDT

Some 64% of Americans stand firm in support of President Bush's decision to invade Iraq, according to The Wall Street Journal/NBC poll just out. That makes sense. But 51% now oppose Mr. Bush's request for $87 billion to rebuild Iraq. That makes sense, too. What evidence of progress in Iraq have the American people been given to sign another check?

If the people e-mailing and calling this office about Iraq at all mirror these poll numbers, they suggest that many Americans think the situation there can't be as bad as they are reading or seeing on TV but are confused about just what is going on there. Is Iraq as anarchic and homicidal as they've been given to believe the past 12 weeks? Or is something else happening in Iraq as well, something that would justify the moral and financial commitment the U.S. is making to win this war?

More of the media should embed themselves with the Iraqi people outside the Sunni Triangle, rather than inside the Baghdad bunker. But don't blame the media alone for not telling the full postwar story in Iraq. The administration's information effort so far has been poor. On Aug. 8 the White House released a "100 Days" progress report, but there's been little since. This is a shame, because if one makes the effort to dig for news beyond the front-page war deaths, it is hard to escape the conclusion that Baghdad's bad-news tail is wagging the entire Iraqi dog.

The Sunni Triangle in central Iraq--which runs west from Baghdad to Fallujah and Ramadi, north to Tikrit and back down to Baghdad--is beset with diehard Baathists, contract killers and in-migrating jihadists. Out beyond the Baghdad hellhole, however, what one finds is Dodge City after Wyatt Earp cleaned it up. That is, most of Iraq's 26 million people are trying to behave like citizens of a civilized nation, a large change that inevitably reveals itself as the effort to form up Edmund Burke's "little platoons."

"Basrah Moves Towards Religious Stability," reports Ahmed Mukhtar for Iraq Today, a new and useful source of information about the rebuilding--online at
, in English. Though the "former regime" tried to foment sectarian conflict in Basra, today Sunni, Shiite and Shakhi Muslims and Christians and Sabeans are trying to create joint self-help societies in the city of 1.4 million. "We regarded ourselves as original Iraqi residents," the Chaldean Christian leader Archbishop Gabriel T. Kassab told Iraq Today. "We had one destiny."

From Najaf, Sarmad S. Ali reports that "Security Efforts Target Foreigners," the "foreigners" being Iranian and Saudi infiltrators. But he also describes the rebuilding of the holy shrine of Imam Ali, which took a hit during a recent bomb attack. The marble work "is being done by Iranian workers who have come from the same quarries where the marble was made." Iraq's Olympic weightlifters, formerly fodder for Uday's amusements, have been invited to a training camp in the U.S.

Even from bloody Baghdad one reads that the Court of First Instance, the Iraqi civil court, is creating procedures to resolve disputes over debts, landlord problems and property confiscated during "the former regime."

But this is news written by Iraqis, who may tend toward hopefulness. Let us turn to a recent, underpublicized report from the U.S. National Democratic Institute, which sent an assessment mission to Iraq this summer (www.ndi.org). NDI's chairman is Madeleine Albright and its advisory committee includes Richard ("miserable failure") Gephardt.

The report's first sentence: "NDI's overwhelming finding--in the north, south, Baghdad and among secular, religious, Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish groups in both urban and rural areas--is a grateful welcoming of the demise of Saddam's regime and a sense that this is a pivotal moment in Iraq's history."

Touring the southern cities of Basra, Nassiriya and Aamara, NDI found, "Despite all of the obstacles, virtually every individual and group NDI met with in southern Iraq perceived this as a time of opportunity. . . . Iraqi citizens in the south demonstrated a hunger for information about the functioning of democracy." In the Kurdish-controlled north, NDI saw "clear evidence of a developing economy, relative security and prosperity and an active civil society and culture. . . . Local municipal councils are active and appear to be working."

The institute's advance delegation called Iraq "fertile ground for democracy promotion initiatives on a scale not seen since the heady days of the fall of the Berlin Wall." Sounds like a good story.

An American officer who worked on reconstruction in Mosul, well north of Baghdad, told me of meeting with young Muslawi lawyers who now want help forming a Mosul bar association and developing a modern system of defendants' rights. The Americans who lectured at the university in Mosul generally spoke in English because so many Iraqi professors speak English. The successes in Mosul, with two million people, are now being taken to smaller towns in the Nineveh province, generally with around 40,000 people.

About 10 days ago, some 140 delegates from eight districts in Salah-ad-Din province chose an interim governing council. The new council's members include a Shia woman from Bayji, tribal sheiks from Dujayl, religious leaders from Samarra and Kurdish and Turkmen members from Tuz. They of course posed afterward for group photographs.

Paul Bremer's Baghdad office is now, at last, assembling this information. In a world with an infinity of Web sites, the U.S. government should be able to create just one dedicated to this great story. The U.S. Central Command has a decent one at
. If the press wants to debunk them, feel free; better that than nothing. The little stories of Iraq's rebuilding may not make the front page, but I know a lot of people who would like to read them, no matter where they appear.

Mr. Henninger is deputy editor of The Wall Street Journal's editorial page. His column appears Fridays in the Journal and on OpinionJournal.com.


And here is the website mentioned in the above article.

Centcom

The Bush Doctrine is WORKING.... No matter how much the Media and the liberals would wish it were otherwise.....

Cry in your beer boys, because it is working!!!

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Yeah, Afghanistan is doing great, completely forgotten, woefully underfunded, with the Taliban rebuilding in the hills, and the allied troops basically unable to leave the bases. Yeah. Bush's policies are working GREAT in Afghanistan.

A piece of advice - Take a look at some of the middle-to-left news sites, instead of just fanatically following the neo-con sites.

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quote:

Originally posted by Kartoffel:

Yeah, Afghanistan is doing great, completely forgotten, woefully underfunded, with the Taliban rebuilding in the hills, and the allied troops basically unable to leave the bases. Yeah. Bush's policies are working GREAT in Afghanistan.

A piece of advice - Take a look at some of the middle-to-left news sites - They'll paint a much more believable picture of what is happening.

You Really are clueless, aren't you?

I have talked to people ON THE GROUND in Afghanistan, and they leave the base whenever they want, the Taliban is Trying and FAILING miserably.

Sure, there are small scale skirmishes, but not NEARLY as bad as the media reports.

You guys are just suckers for bad news, and I find it pretty sad, because you hurt the morale of our soldiers every time you repeat such nonsense.

They are succeeding, and the press and the left does NOT want to admit it.

The policies are working, and will continue to work, no matter HOW MUCH YOU WHINE.....

And understand this Kartoffel, I talk to SOLDIERS that are THERE, not from ANY news sources, I only quote them to make my point. I get my information from the SOURCE....

Perhaps you should ask about YOUR sources, instead of criticizing mine....

And one more thing, don't give me advice, I know what the truth is, because I go out and FIND it, unlike you who goes to those that agree with you to get the news that you actually WANT....

The truth is out there, you just have to take the energy to go out and FIND it.....

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There may be isolated spots where the Taliban is weaker. But that doesnt change the overall picture. It's warlords and the Taliban remanants in control of the bulk of Afghanistan, not the Allied forces.

It's a shame, really. Back when you and Menchise debated, you were much more of the voice of reason... Now, though, you just sound like a naïve neo-con lapping up everything you hear BushCo say. Sad.

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quote:

Originally posted by Kartoffel:

There may be isolated spots where the Taliban is weaker. But that doesnt change the overall picture. It's warlords and the Taliban remanants in control of the bulk of Afghanistan, not the Allied forces.

It's a shame, really. Back when you and Menchise debated, you were much more of the voice of reason... Now, though, you just sound like a naïve neo-con lapping up everything you hear BushCo say. Sad.

Well, if you had the truth, and actually held some sort of reasonable opinion instead of spouting left wing liveral media nonsense, I might actually have a decebnt debate with you.

But the fact is, that I actually TALK to people ON THE GROUND.... Do you?

Do you have sources that you talk to that are there? Do you talk to soldiers that are ACTUALLY doing the fighting? Or do you get your info from the press and spew forth their nonsense?

Never mind, you spew forth the media nonsense that you read.

Again, I talk to people ON THE GROUND, in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

The picture is FAR different, and I know whom I trust, and it ain't your sources buddy, it ain't your sources.

Come to me with info from someone on the ground that agrees with you, Hint: you won't find one, unless it's a reporter, come to me and we'll talk.

Otherwise I will continue to think of your opinions as the nonsense that they are....

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You say you talk to people on the ground. You give no proof. Your continues crying that there were WMDs in Iraq has killed your credibility.

Give me some proof, and I'll take it with a grain of salt. Otherwise, stop trying to preach something without giving actual proof.

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quote:

Originally posted by Kartoffel:

You say you talk to people on the ground. You give no proof. Your continues crying that there were WMDs in Iraq has killed your credibility.

Give me some proof, and I'll take it with a grain of salt. Otherwise, stop trying to preach something without giving actual proof.

First off, I am NOT going to give you the names of the people on the ground, for their protection, and 2nd, I really couldn't care less about what you think about my credibility.

I KNOW that your opinions are bogus, others can take it the way they want.

I tire of debating wwith people that are quite literally clueless as to what is ACTUALLY going on in those 2 countries, and continue to repeat the nonsense they hear in the mainstream press, and then claim that I am without credibility, because it's laughable.

My resume's shows me to be indeed credible and know what I am talking about.

4 years in the military, continued contact with most of the people that I served with, as well as their sons and daughters that are serving now. Continued contact with the intelligence community, as well as the clearance to know things that they wouldn't allow you to get an inkling of.

You wanna take what I say with a grain of salt, that is your decision, and a bad one at that, but as a student of history, a student of the military, and as someone with continued contacts in the intelligence and military community, I guarantee that I know a lot more then you know, or ever could know.

I share what I can, and give proof where I am able.

You can learn the truth, it will just take a bit of work and effort on your part.

Street talks about his congressman and Senators, and thier clearances are far below what I had, and their obvious motivations are far more questionable then mine ever have been.

As I said, when you talk to people on the ground, IN the military and the intelligence community, come back and tell me about my credibility, in the meantime, I know what your credibility is, because you continue to spew the same nonsense over and over again.

And that is EXACTLY what it is, NONSENSE.

Wanna know where the Taliban is?

Most are in the mountains, HIDING from their own people, they have no power left, they are being left on the ashheap of history as they should be.

They have NO power, no matter how much you hear otherwise. They are dying, and they are starving and they are desperate, so to hear you say that they have power in Afghanistan in major areas is not only laughable, it is downright hilarious, because it is an ouright LIE!!!

Oh, and as far as crying about WMD's in Iraq...

Are you claiming that there never were WMD's in Iraq, because it sure sounds like it.....

Not only were there WMD's in Iraq, but they gave us the FRICKING list themselves!! They gave us the ENTIRE, supposedly, inventory of their stockpiled weapons....

Over 80% of those weapons are MISSING, there is NO proof of their destruction, the other 20% were destroyed by the UN inspectors.

SO, what you should be asking is not "were there WMD's?" Because it's a stupid question, but "WHERE are the WMD's that were NOT destroyed by the UN inspectors."

But you really DON'T want to know what happened to those WMD's, because you wish to pretend that Bush lied to us, why? Because you hate Bush, you don't want information and facts, you want propaganda to feed the beliefs that you already have.....

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Oh, yeah. The Taliban are in the mountains. The warlords control the rest, except Kabul. Thanks for catching my mistake.

I dont think Bush has lied, I KNOW he has. It's been proven so much, that your blatant denial is just really sad.

There could have been WMDs in Iraq back a decade or so ago. I don't know. BUT - there was NO credible intelligence (The 'intelligence' indicating WMDs was from Ahmed Chalabi, who has since been discovered to be an Iranian double-agent, and the rest of his lies have been disproven) that there were WMDs in Iraq when Bush claiming there were, that was just one of his lies to goad the country to supporting his war of choice. But why didnt he invade countries that actually HAD WMDs, like Pakistan? Or countries that supported Al Qaeda, like Saudi Arabia?

A little list of his lies about the fradulent Iraq-Al Qaeda connection.

In October 2002, Bush said, "Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases." That was false.

Bush said, in his January 2003 State of the Union address, "Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda." That was false.

Bush said, on February 8, 2003, "Iraq has also provided Al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training." That was false.

On May 3, 2003, in his infamous end-of-major-combat-operations speech, Bush said, "We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda." False again.

And Bush on Thursday, June 17, said, "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and Al Qaeda, because there was a relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda."

You continue to insist there was a connection. More like they knew each other existed, and that is it.

You claim your clearance from your military days lets you see what is apparently highly classified. Not likely a common grunt (what were you, tank crewman?) would have access to that, and it is even less likely you would retain that clearance after you left the military.

Its your blatant acceptance of things that have been PROVEN wrong, that KILLS your credibility.

You claim that I could 'learn' your truth. But you just say that and leave it at that. Let me guess what you would say. Neo-con sites like freerepublic.com, right?

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Guest rtoolooze

Quote:

"You claim your clearance from your military days lets you see what is apparently highly classified. Not likely a common grunt (what were you, tank crewman?)"

ROFLMAO

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Lets go over each of these LIES, one at a time, shall we?

quote:

In October 2002, Bush said, "Iraq has trained Al Qaeda members in bomb-making and poisons and deadly gases." That was false.


This is INDEED TRUE!! The intelligence is indeed there, the British insist upon it, as do the Russians. So, sorry, this is indeed a TRUE statement.

quote:

Bush said, in his January 2003 State of the Union address, "Saddam Hussein aids and protects terrorists, including members of al Qaeda." That was false.


This is again, indeed TRUE, Zarcowi came to Baghdad for medical treatment, for wounds sustained in Afghanistan, and he is NOW in Faluja with Saddam Loyalists, he also met in Praque with members of Iraqi Intelligence.

quote:

Bush said, on February 8, 2003, "Iraq has also provided Al Qaeda with chemical and biological weapons training." That was false.


Again, this is true, and the CLinton administration confirmed and believed this as well, read the Odama Bin Laden Indictment of 1999, and it shows that The Clinton administration has intellignce that showed that Al Quaeda was getting weapons and weapons training from Saddam Housien.

quote:

On May 3, 2003, in his infamous end-of-major-combat-operations speech, Bush said, "We have removed an ally of Al Qaeda." False again.


Again, TRUE, we had removed Saddam, which indeed removed a MAJOR ally of Al Quaeda.

quote:

And Bush on Thursday, June 17, said, "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and Al Qaeda, because there was a relationship between Iraq and Al Qaeda."


And once again, a VERY TRUE statement.

You just enjouy IGNORING facts don't you.

The CLinton administration INSISTED that Saddam had ties with Al Quaeda, The British INSIST that he had ties with Al Quaeda, the Russian intelligence insisted that they had a direct connection, and the Bush administration insists that there was a conncetion, oh, and Massad, you knwo who they are, do you not? Also, INSIST and have credible evidence to show that Al Quaeda and Saddam were not only LINKED, but that Saddam was giving Al Quaeda operatives training in Chemical and biological weapons. Each of these organizations have evidence that EVERY one of the statements that you claim are false, are not only true, but actually go much deeper then anyone knew before.

Also, Iraqi intelligence papers that we have captured in Iraq, are giving us an even BIGGER and better picture of what Saddam was doing with Terrorist organizations around the world.

SO EACH AND EVERY one of your statements is a FLAT out lie........... Sorry....

And then this.....

quote:

You claim your clearance from your military days lets you see what is apparently highly classified. Not likely a common grunt (what were you, tank crewman?) would have access to that, and it is even less likely you would retain that clearance after you left the military.


First off, I was NOT a tank crewman, although I spent the first 2 years at Ft Knox and worked on them during the changeover from M60's to M-1's, 2nd, I spent 18 months in the Republic of Turkey, in communications. Most of which I am NOT allowed to discuss, and which I am required to keep an up to date security clearance.

You have never been in the military, my security clearance allowed me to work with weapons and communications systems that you have no idea about. It also got me contacts with all types of military personnel, intelligence, commo, infantry, field artillery, tankers, etc.

You have NOT a clue what I know or how much I know, because I cannot discuss most of it, except for the fact that the flat out falsehoods that you spout are just that FALSE.

You SPEW forth the nonsense given to you from the mainstream press, and that is ALL you do.

I tell you the truth, and you try to discredit me, which I find rather amusing.

Tank Crewman....LOL

a Tank crewman would not need the clearance that I have....ROFL

Let me put it to you this way, if you joined the Army and were a tank crewman, you would have a secret security clearance. If the tank skirt was damaged, you would be removed from the area, and a specialist would be brought in to fix it, I on the other hand, would be allowed to stay, because my clearance is higher then the specialists.... LOL

So answer me this Kartoffel, since you seem to think you know so much....

1: Have you ever been in the military?

2: If so, did you have a security clearance?

3: If so, what did that security clearance entail

4: Do you have contacts with people within the military?

5: Are ANY of those contacts in Iraq or Afghanistan?

6: Do you have contacts with other countries military services?

if not, then what are you? A student? It says that in your profile, a student, and you question my credibility?

I can answer EACH and every one of those questions with a yes, and my security clearance was high enough where I can't tell you what it's true level was. I can tell you that it allowed me to work closely with our intelligence people in Turkey, and that I would have been allowed EASY access to just about any and every weapons system we own, including nuclear weapons, it also requires me to have a current security clearance, not as high as I once had, but I do have to keep it current.

Kartoffel, and Rtoolooze, you both are clueless, and I find it quite disturbing.

There is NO excuse for such ignorance.....

Why? because 90% of this information is available around the internet, I just have advantage of being able to verify it with people on the ground.

Such ignorance on your parts, and such diehard partisan Bush hating is inexcusable, because if you were indeed interested in the truth, you could find it. But you CHOOSE not to go looking, you would rather have the media repeat what YOU WANT to hear, instead of going after the actual truth, which would upset your poor Bush bashing sensibilities.

Look around boys, the truth is there, you just have to LOOK for it......

[ 06-20-2004, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

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Guest rtoolooze

I have no political leanings one way or the other. The thing that disturbs me is, for some reason, on every subject possible, (or so it seems) you come across as the complete know it all, most intelligent and informed person on the planet.

You somehow seem to have all this realtime info about the worlds goings on and that it is ALL infallible. (Cause for some reason, anyone else with any info, or contacts and so forth are ignorant and don't have a clue.)

There is much about the world, and what is actually happening that we don't know, including you. I'm not saying all your info is false. I'm just saying YOU don't know it all.

Come down off your pedestal and have a reasonable debate, and stop trying to come across as a higher form of life dude.

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link to copy of a CIA letter from George Tenet, Sorry about the link, but it is a link that you can get to and read it. It is a Correct and COMPLETE copy of the document

Mainly. I want you to see this part....

This is dated October 9th 2002....

quote:

We have solid reporting of senior level con-tacts

between Iraq and al-QaÔÇÖida going back

a decade.

Credible information indicates that Iraq

and al-QaÔÇÖida have discussed safe haven and

reciprocal non-aggression.

Since Operation Enduring Freedom, we

have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of

al-QaÔÇÖida members, including some that have

been in Baghdad.

We have credible reporting that al-QaÔÇÖida

leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could

help them acquire WMD capabilities. The re-porting

also stated that Iraq has provided

training to al-QaÔÇÖida members in the areas of

poisons and gases and making conventional

bombs.

IraqÔÇÖs increasing support to extremist Pal-estinians,

coupled with growing indications

of a relationship with al-QaÔÇÖida, suggest that

BaghdadÔÇÖs links to terrorists will increase,

even absent US military action.

Sincerely,

JOHN MCLAUGHLIN

No links? LOL, you poor ignorant children....

Public document guys, you could have found it, if you had bothered.

This is information that Bush had from the CIA.....

And other sources as well.

Here's another,

Link

And it was Mohammed Atta, who met with Iraqi intelligence before 911, my apologies, information overload...

quote:

....Even as the press had a feeding-frenzy over MacEachinÔÇÖs statement absolving Saddam of ties to Al Qaeda, fresh evidence of malevolent intentions toward the United States that would have made anti-American collaboration between Saddam and Al Qaeda only natural was supplied by an unlikely source: another old intelligence hand, Russian President Vladimir Putin (search).

According to Putin, his intelligence agencies shared sensitive information with the Bush administration after the Sept. 11 attacks and before the United States went to war with Iraq in March of 2003. According to Putin's intelligence, Saddam HusseinÔÇÖs regime was crafting plans to execute terror attacks against America, both inside and outside of this country. Thus far, Putin has not elaborated on whether Al Qaeda was also involved with these particular plans. At the very least, however, this information confirms the Bush teamÔÇÖs contention that Saddam dealt deeply in terror and its judgment that to leave Saddam in power would be to invite murderous attacks in the future.

One wonders whether the 9/11 Commission was exposed to the Putin intelligence before it effectively dismissed the possibility that Saddam Hussein had a hand in the 2001 attacks. For that matter, did they review the information contained in three highly informative books providing ÔÇ£credible evidenceÔÇØ ÔÇö of at least a circumstantial nature ÔÇö that Saddam had already acted on his desire to strike this country?

Dr. Laurie MylroieÔÇÖs The War Against America: Saddam Hussein and the World Trade Center Attacks ÔÇô A Study of Revenge, which concerns the first effort to destroy the Twin Towers in 1993; Jayna DavisÔÇÖ The Third Terrorist: The Middle East Connection to the Oklahoma City Bombing, which concerns the 1995 destruction of the Murrah Building; and Stephen HayesÔÇÖ The Connection: How al QaedaÔÇÖs Collaboration with Saddam Hussein has Endangered America, all persuasively support a very different conclusion than that advanced yesterday by Douglas MacEachin.

It is high time that their conclusions, together with arguments like those presented so cogently by Andrew McCarthy, are given at least a fraction of the media attention ÔÇö and credibility ÔÇö afforded a statement that so manifestly fails to connect the dots.

Frank J. Gaffney, Jr. is president of the Center for Security Policy in Washington.


Whoops, what is going on here?

EXACTLY what I have been saying all along, and what have you guys been spewing? The same old nonsense that the press is.

quote:

Come down off your pedestal and have a reasonable debate, and stop trying to come across as a higher form of life dude.


And why should I? I am right, You and your buddies are WRONG....

The FACTS bear me out, and prove your lies to be just that, LIES....

So, I MUST know a LOT more then you do....

Oh, and the next little bit of info about to hit the media, is something that I already discussed, except I slipped up and put Zarcowis name there, it was ACTUALLY Atta, 911 hijacker living in Florida who met with Iraqi Intelligence, and who was that Iraqi Intelligence Agent? Lieutenant Colonel Hickma Shakir, A Saddam Fedayeen officer.

Whoops, and who already told you about this man?

Why, lookey hereI do believe that I did.....

This guy met with Al Quaeda operatives a NUMBER of times, he was photographed in Kuala Lumpur, and then was seen with Muhammed Atta, in Prague JUST before 911.

Whoops, watch the CYA mode that the press is about to go into.

It should be fun to watch for me, but not for you guys.

Iraq HAD a DIRECT connection with Al Quaeda, and RA, ROA Shaggy, 911.........

And that is something that Bush never claimed, and I think that he should have. This intelligence is STRONG bu the way, so in all honesty, I have no idea why Bush DIDN'T use it. but it was probably a political decision, based upon the reaction that he would have gotten from the left and thos that hate him. Your reactions thus far, prove that probably to be the case....

[ 06-21-2004, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

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Guest rtoolooze

Your calling me a lier? LOL, I have'nt said a thing about any of this crap, except to call you on your arrogant attitude.

Find one remark that I have said about any of this bologna, and I'll bow down to you.

I've only posted in here cause I know just how wrong you can be in other discussed matters, so how can anyone believe what you say here is true?

You know, if you would stop being so condesending, some people might actually listen to what you have to say. Sometimes its not WHAT you say, but its your attitude that turns would be listener's away.

You are not very tactful when giving your opinion. And it seems that you could care less about the people you talk to, since we are all ignorant and all.

Those are not the qualities of a good leader.

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Good thing that I am not trying to lead you then huh?

LOL, sorry Rtoolooze, but when you have been listening to liberal drivel for as long as I have, it makes you feel a bit angry at the stupidity it takes to actually believe that stuff they spew.

I hear day in and day out how bad Bush is doing, yet I never hear any REAL facts to back them up, ALL they have are lies, and disinformation, if I sound condescending to such nonsense, it is because I am......

Such people do not deserve my respect, because they are either A: lying through their teeth, or B: just spouting angry rhetoric and nonsense that they heard that agrees with their already made up minds.

I am NOT going to change their minds, no matter how many facts I toss at them, but the fact of the matter is, I am going to make it VERY clear how I feel about thier nonsense.

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Guest rtoolooze

To be sure, I have no business to even attempt trying to debate against you on these matters, as I would'nt stand a chance. Honestly, I try to stay neutral.

As far as Busch and the U.S. military going in on Iraq, hey Saddam himself was a WMD, and a terrible murderer. Something had to be done. I just feel for those people over there, and hope now they can live better.

Mabe I should'nt open my mouth when I really don't know how strongly you feel about all of this.

Anyway, I'm late for work and have to go. Sorry Jag if I was alittle strong. I should'nt say anything here as I really am clueless about most of this stuff.

Be cool.

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quote_

__________________________________________

You are not very tactful when giving your opinion. And it seems that you could care less about the people you talk to, since we are all ignorant and all.

______________________________________________

Jag I know you hardly need me sticking up for you but this bothered me.

First of all, I need to say I have learned, and will continue to learn soo much from these debates. Whenever I ask a question or disagree I am answered with respect, even if I am being a goof. I generally will admit my ignornace on a subject before opening my mouth and try to consider the feelings of the peoploe I am responding to.

rtoolooze:

I have watched these heated debates Jag has had for a very long time and the fault I find in the above statement is that Jag responds to the tone used.

The second is I have rarely see him back down. If you were not aware of how seriously or how passionately he feels about these things, you haven't been reading very much.

I feel better now. Group hug everyone....

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quote_

__________________________________________

You are not very tactful when giving your opinion. And it seems that you could care less about the people you talk to, since we are all ignorant and all.

______________________________________________

Jag I know you hardly need me sticking up for you but this bothered me.

First of all, I need to say I have learned, and will continue to learn soo much from these debates. Whenever I ask a question or disagree I am answered with respect, even if I am being a goof. I generally will admit my ignornace on a subject before opening my mouth and try to consider the feelings of the peoploe I am responding to.

rtoolooze:

I have watched these heated debates Jag has had for a very long time and the fault I find in the above statement is that Jag responds to the tone used.

The second is I have rarely see him back down. If you were not aware of how seriously or how passionately he feels about these things, you haven't been reading very much.

I feel better now. Group hug everyone....

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quote_

__________________________________________

You are not very tactful when giving your opinion. And it seems that you could care less about the people you talk to, since we are all ignorant and all.

______________________________________________

Jag I know you hardly need me sticking up for you but this bothered me.

First of all, I need to say I have learned, and will continue to learn soo much from these debates. Whenever I ask a question or disagree I am answered with respect, even if I am being a goof. I generally will admit my ignornace on a subject before opening my mouth and try to consider the feelings of the peoploe I am responding to.

rtoolooze:

I have watched these heated debates Jag has had for a very long time and the fault I find in the above statement is that Jag responds to the tone used.

The second is I have rarely see him back down. If you were not aware of how seriously or how passionately he feels about these things, you haven't been reading very much.

I feel better now. Group hug everyone....

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Guest rtoolooze

Quote:

"If you were not aware of how seriously or how passionately he feels about these things, you haven't been reading very much."

echo:

You are right, I guess I was'nt aware of how passionately he feels about these issue's. Hence the reason for my last post. It was'nt right for me to say those things as I really don't know all of what his opponents have said to him, nor the manner in which they said it.

So I retract my statements, and formally apologize to Jag.

Mabe Jag does have some serious contacts that are legit. Who am I to say he does'nt, when I don't know.

I usually stay out of the political threads cause I'm clueless about those matters. It was wrong of me to pop in, read a few posts, and then pop off at the mouth.

Sorry again Jag.

(I definitly could be a history teacher tho. My fav subject)

Cheers

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Guest rtoolooze

Quote:

"If you were not aware of how seriously or how passionately he feels about these things, you haven't been reading very much."

echo:

You are right, I guess I was'nt aware of how passionately he feels about these issue's. Hence the reason for my last post. It was'nt right for me to say those things as I really don't know all of what his opponents have said to him, nor the manner in which they said it.

So I retract my statements, and formally apologize to Jag.

Mabe Jag does have some serious contacts that are legit. Who am I to say he does'nt, when I don't know.

I usually stay out of the political threads cause I'm clueless about those matters. It was wrong of me to pop in, read a few posts, and then pop off at the mouth.

Sorry again Jag.

(I definitly could be a history teacher tho. My fav subject)

Cheers

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Guest rtoolooze

Quote:

"If you were not aware of how seriously or how passionately he feels about these things, you haven't been reading very much."

echo:

You are right, I guess I was'nt aware of how passionately he feels about these issue's. Hence the reason for my last post. It was'nt right for me to say those things as I really don't know all of what his opponents have said to him, nor the manner in which they said it.

So I retract my statements, and formally apologize to Jag.

Mabe Jag does have some serious contacts that are legit. Who am I to say he does'nt, when I don't know.

I usually stay out of the political threads cause I'm clueless about those matters. It was wrong of me to pop in, read a few posts, and then pop off at the mouth.

Sorry again Jag.

(I definitly could be a history teacher tho. My fav subject)

Cheers

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