Terror in the Skies, Again?

[Takvah]

OK... so where is the "problem" in this story. Nobody died and nobody was harmed. You asked what people were doing, they were watching and they were observing. When the plane landed these guys were greeted by what sounds like a swarm of stormtrooper types. The descriptions are very "female" if I may be sexist here. Oh I may not? Well tough.

Steve a guy takes his McDonald's bag into the bathroom and this is what grabbed you about this story? A radio personality in my town gets crap for having eaten a sandwich in the station bathroom all the time. Maybe this guy didn't want to share or offend the people sitting next to him with the stink of that poison. If I was concerned by that I would have gone into that bathroom and searched it MYSELF.

I'll tell you where the failure if any lies. If these people were afraid for their lives and genuinely concerned... to the point of believing they may be goners YOU GET UP, YOU GO BACK THERE AND YOU GET IN THE WAY. He looked at me with cold dead eyes, or whatever the hell this broad said... HONEY, go write some fiction. These poor bastards that had to listen to this yentah recount this... ugh... hijackers were probably leaving bomb materials on planes while these poor bastards were busy tending to this woman and her "harrowing" tale.

Look we all saw those planes fly into those buildings. I WOULD NOT HAVE SAT ON MY ASS. I would have gotten up... and maybe I would have been the first to get a pencil stuck in my throat for it but hey if I feel like I might die anyway BETTER TO GO OUT SWINGING. Yes the government needs to be vigilant and yes there are issues of civil liberties that are up for debate post 9/11 but this lady's STORY smacks of sensationalism.

If anything her husband is a god damn coward making her get up to go to the back of the plane. I would be embarrassed if I were him reading this. Finally he gets off his rear end and what does he do... goes and runs to another WOMAN attendant. Bravo sir.

I hate to tell you people but stopping terrorists is as much OUR responsibility as it is the government's. All of the screening in the world WILL NOT insure us of our safety. Some things fall squarely in our laps.

I went to Scotland June 7th. On my flight was a NUTTER woman, who would not turn off her phone and who while we were taxi'ing to the runway tried to show the stewardess she could open the emergency door by REACHING FOR IT. As soon as I saw the woman arguing with the stewardess my seatbelt was UNBUCKLED. When the woman got up and got in the face of the stewardess, me and three other guys were rising from our seats. That's when another man got up and put a hand on her shoulder and said, "sit down!" She then turned on him and smacked him across the face. Welp the guy put a knee in her back and another guy jumped up and said, "US AIR MARSHALLS EVERYONE SIT DOWN!" I got my ass back into my seat lickety split! But the purpose of recounting this is that there were three or more of us READY and willing to do what needed to be done. I don't care if there were 14 guys or ONE WOMAN... we didn't know if she was just a whacko or if she was creating a diversion. Luckily for us she was just a nut. I sure as hell am not going to be seen to be suspiciously looking around the cabin so that if somebody DOES act I can be the first guy they cut the throat of. The reason why civil liberties can be trampled is because people want to shluff off the responsibility for their personal safety on the government. Hmmm... guess they were never a white kid walking through Hollis Queens or for that matter a black kid walking alone through Bayside. You learn to take care of yourself.

Read about the crazy lady... see we yelled at her when she went to open door

Later

[ 07-16-2004, 02:51 PM: Message edited by: Takvah ]

[street228]

quote:

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because people want to shluff off the responsibility for their personal safety on the government. Hmmm... guess they were never a white kid walking through Hollis Queens or for that matter a black kid walking alone through Bayside. You learn to take care of yourself.

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With this statement, I must say: "I could'nt agree more!!"

[street228]

quote:

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because people want to shluff off the responsibility for their personal safety on the government. Hmmm... guess they were never a white kid walking through Hollis Queens or for that matter a black kid walking alone through Bayside. You learn to take care of yourself.

---

With this statement, I must say: "I could'nt agree more!!"

[Steve Schacher]

It was just one oddity. The whole story caught my attention. The way it read, it sounded like the guys didn't know each other when at the gate, but then knew each other once on board. It seemed too coincidental that, out of everyone on the plane, they appeared to get up as a group to go to the bathroom. They appeared to be waiting at all the strategic locations. They appeared to be giving each other signals. Yes, there also appeared to be some instances of coincidentally innocent activity -- several time I've sat next to passengers who were reading passages from the Bible during takeoff and landing. However, having been in many airplane bathrooms, it is inconceivable to me that someone would choose to eat there over eating at their seat. One could argue the converse -- that if they were Islamic extremists, that they would be Kosher and therefore would not eat McDonalds at all, let alone in an unclean place like an airplane bathroom.

In a story like this, it is easy to pick out each single instance and explain it away. It is the "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" -- how a series of oddities add up to something else, or don't; how a series of oddities can defy statistics (what are the odds that the same group of men are involved in oddity after oddity after oddity). What is the Freudian joke, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?

[Steve Schacher]

It was just one oddity. The whole story caught my attention. The way it read, it sounded like the guys didn't know each other when at the gate, but then knew each other once on board. It seemed too coincidental that, out of everyone on the plane, they appeared to get up as a group to go to the bathroom. They appeared to be waiting at all the strategic locations. They appeared to be giving each other signals. Yes, there also appeared to be some instances of coincidentally innocent activity -- several time I've sat next to passengers who were reading passages from the Bible during takeoff and landing. However, having been in many airplane bathrooms, it is inconceivable to me that someone would choose to eat there over eating at their seat. One could argue the converse -- that if they were Islamic extremists, that they would be Kosher and therefore would not eat McDonalds at all, let alone in an unclean place like an airplane bathroom.

In a story like this, it is easy to pick out each single instance and explain it away. It is the "whole is greater than the sum of its parts" -- how a series of oddities add up to something else, or don't; how a series of oddities can defy statistics (what are the odds that the same group of men are involved in oddity after oddity after oddity). What is the Freudian joke, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar?

[Matchoo]

quote:

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Originally posted by street:

quote:

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because people want to shluff off the responsibility for their personal safety on the government. Hmmm... guess they were never a white kid walking through Hollis Queens or for that matter a black kid walking alone through Bayside. You learn to take care of yourself.

---

With this statement, I must say: "I could'nt agree more!!"

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So why is it when Bush decides that we can't wait for the U.N. to do anything and we have to "take care of ourselves" by using pre-emptive warfare, he gets "bush-bashed" for it?

Sounds a little hypocritical to me. Anybody else agree?

[Matchoo]

quote:

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Originally posted by street:

quote:

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because people want to shluff off the responsibility for their personal safety on the government. Hmmm... guess they were never a white kid walking through Hollis Queens or for that matter a black kid walking alone through Bayside. You learn to take care of yourself.

---

With this statement, I must say: "I could'nt agree more!!"

---

So why is it when Bush decides that we can't wait for the U.N. to do anything and we have to "take care of ourselves" by using pre-emptive warfare, he gets "bush-bashed" for it?

Sounds a little hypocritical to me. Anybody else agree?

[street228]

As with MOST journalism, the slant, is intentional, and by writer's design. Fear is one thing, common sense, quite another. Common sense, tells me to "be cautious"; however, paranoia, would tell me:" caution is NOT enough.... and I MUST STRIKE FIRST". This is where a level headed perspective, would null any inappropriate,or reactionary responses.

beyond that, I simply will NOT get sucked back into defending a position, WHICH IS,and should be, mere, COMMON SENSE.

Just because you dont like me, you MIGHT have a gun, and you MIGHT be willing to use it pro-actively, does NOT give me the RIGHT to attack and kill you, your family, or anyone connected with you.

(the operative word is MIGHT!!)

BETTER have some REAL FACTS!! is the argument!!!

If our whole AMERICAN system, is degraded, into this example, as a standard operational proceedure,(with NO REAL FACTS) both domestic, and internationally; then, we have become our own worst nightmare!!!!

welcome to HELL, my friend!

sorry, NOTHING hypocritical here!! look somewhere else!!

A

[ 07-16-2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: street ]

[street228]

As with MOST journalism, the slant, is intentional, and by writer's design. Fear is one thing, common sense, quite another. Common sense, tells me to "be cautious"; however, paranoia, would tell me:" caution is NOT enough.... and I MUST STRIKE FIRST". This is where a level headed perspective, would null any inappropriate,or reactionary responses.

beyond that, I simply will NOT get sucked back into defending a position, WHICH IS,and should be, mere, COMMON SENSE.

Just because you dont like me, you MIGHT have a gun, and you MIGHT be willing to use it pro-actively, does NOT give me the RIGHT to attack and kill you, your family, or anyone connected with you.

(the operative word is MIGHT!!)

BETTER have some REAL FACTS!! is the argument!!!

If our whole AMERICAN system, is degraded, into this example, as a standard operational proceedure,(with NO REAL FACTS) both domestic, and internationally; then, we have become our own worst nightmare!!!!

welcome to HELL, my friend!

sorry, NOTHING hypocritical here!! look somewhere else!!

A

[ 07-16-2004, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: street ]

[Matchoo]

Street, what would your opinion on the war in Iraq be if we had found the WMD's when we first went in? Would you support it and Bush?

[Matchoo]

Street, what would your opinion on the war in Iraq be if we had found the WMD's when we first went in? Would you support it and Bush?

[street228]

If they(IRAQ)were even half the threat,the bush administration claimed.... I would have been all for it! and would have backed Bush, to this day, for clear thinking action;

HOWEVER, I already KNEW, Iraq, was no immediate threat, and would have been SURPRISED as hell, had they found ANYTHING of significance.

The BLATANT FEAR drummming,(lynch mob style) methodology,bush was using; told me(RIGHT UP FRONT) it was ALL a lie!

IMAGINE, my amazement, to find out I was right-all-along(I know, I am being a sarcastic ass, here,but in the beginning: FEW would even consider the possibility, though it was so very obvious to me)

I have been too involved, personally, in regard to watching the political sleight of hand, being played upon the mind's of America, over the last three decades.

for Instance:

I was stationed in IRAN, holding the perimater of the HOLIDAY INN(directly across from the AMERICAN EMBASSY). We escorted ALL the Embassy Personel, to the 3rd floor of the Holiday Inn, 14 days PRIOR to the U.S. Embassy Seige. Those, who were the CAPTIVES, we Escorted TO the Embassy 3 days PRIOR to them being captured, and we were given PREEMPTIVE orders. ORDERS, NOT to ENGAGE if the embassy were attacked.

Needless, to say...NOT one shot was fired in our direction....AND, not one second of footage, shown to the American public, showed the HOLIDAY INN(in all its safe glory, with spectators drinking tea on the lawn BEHIND the T.V. cameras, and behind us: perspectively).

Today, I ocassionally get out some of these old news excerpts to watch , and am STIlL AMAZED today, at how manipulative, and FALSE, the images portray THAT situation. To have been there, and then, to watch the footage, would blow your mind!!(Another Election year propaghanda ploy, if you will recall)

[ 07-16-2004, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: street ]

[street228]

If they(IRAQ)were even half the threat,the bush administration claimed.... I would have been all for it! and would have backed Bush, to this day, for clear thinking action;

HOWEVER, I already KNEW, Iraq, was no immediate threat, and would have been SURPRISED as hell, had they found ANYTHING of significance.

The BLATANT FEAR drummming,(lynch mob style) methodology,bush was using; told me(RIGHT UP FRONT) it was ALL a lie!

IMAGINE, my amazement, to find out I was right-all-along(I know, I am being a sarcastic ass, here,but in the beginning: FEW would even consider the possibility, though it was so very obvious to me)

I have been too involved, personally, in regard to watching the political sleight of hand, being played upon the mind's of America, over the last three decades.

for Instance:

I was stationed in IRAN, holding the perimater of the HOLIDAY INN(directly across from the AMERICAN EMBASSY). We escorted ALL the Embassy Personel, to the 3rd floor of the Holiday Inn, 14 days PRIOR to the U.S. Embassy Seige. Those, who were the CAPTIVES, we Escorted TO the Embassy 3 days PRIOR to them being captured, and we were given PREEMPTIVE orders. ORDERS, NOT to ENGAGE if the embassy were attacked.

Needless, to say...NOT one shot was fired in our direction....AND, not one second of footage, shown to the American public, showed the HOLIDAY INN(in all its safe glory, with spectators drinking tea on the lawn BEHIND the T.V. cameras, and behind us: perspectively).

Today, I ocassionally get out some of these old news excerpts to watch , and am STIlL AMAZED today, at how manipulative, and FALSE, the images portray THAT situation. To have been there, and then, to watch the footage, would blow your mind!!(Another Election year propaghanda ploy, if you will recall)

[ 07-16-2004, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: street ]

[LostInSpace]

Some of you guys are something else. Turning this thread into another Bush bash. Knock it off already. Stick to the subject matter which is the story about a woman and her terrorism fear while in flight and the suspicious actions of a few passengers. Listen I live in NY city, everywhere you go in the subway you always see a reminder to be aware of your surroundings and if you see a suspicious package call it in. You see the adverts in the train on the station advert boards and even on the Metro card vending machines led display. This is not Bush doing this but NY city and NY state which is controlled by the democrats.

So enough with the Bush bashing.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has a message for anxious riders. "If you see something, say something."

You see? That's the problem, right there, living in a city that is two things at once - a proven terrorist bulls-eye and a world-class tourist haunt. How can we ever tell the genuine evildoers from the look-at-my-vacation-pictures idiots?

[LostInSpace]

Some of you guys are something else. Turning this thread into another Bush bash. Knock it off already. Stick to the subject matter which is the story about a woman and her terrorism fear while in flight and the suspicious actions of a few passengers. Listen I live in NY city, everywhere you go in the subway you always see a reminder to be aware of your surroundings and if you see a suspicious package call it in. You see the adverts in the train on the station advert boards and even on the Metro card vending machines led display. This is not Bush doing this but NY city and NY state which is controlled by the democrats.

So enough with the Bush bashing.

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority has a message for anxious riders. "If you see something, say something."

You see? That's the problem, right there, living in a city that is two things at once - a proven terrorist bulls-eye and a world-class tourist haunt. How can we ever tell the genuine evildoers from the look-at-my-vacation-pictures idiots?

[Soback]

Street, you already KNEW that Iraq had no WMDs? When you fly on the plane do you also already know before you get on it that there's no terrorists on board?

[Soback]

Street, you already KNEW that Iraq had no WMDs? When you fly on the plane do you also already know before you get on it that there's no terrorists on board?

[Soback]

And also, if you think people are being paranoid and profiling is bad. Here's and example.

If I go into the forest to get some pine cones, I am not going to be looking for pine cones under every single tree, I'll be looking for pine cones under pine trees because they are the ones producing the cones.

So common sense dictates, I am not going to be searching nuns, and some fat guy with his wife and three kids for bombs because they haven't hijacked and blown up any planes, I'll be looking at people of middle eastern descent because they are the ones that have.

And it doesn't matter if they are dressed as doctors, musicians, businessmen or anything else, it's not based on profession, it's based on ethnicity because before they got on that plane to hijack it they had previous lifes as businessmen, musicians etc... So for that you can deduct that the planes are not being hijacked by nuns, or musicians, or doctors, but rather by people of a particular race and it is not white, black or asian.

[Soback]

And also, if you think people are being paranoid and profiling is bad. Here's and example.

If I go into the forest to get some pine cones, I am not going to be looking for pine cones under every single tree, I'll be looking for pine cones under pine trees because they are the ones producing the cones.

So common sense dictates, I am not going to be searching nuns, and some fat guy with his wife and three kids for bombs because they haven't hijacked and blown up any planes, I'll be looking at people of middle eastern descent because they are the ones that have.

And it doesn't matter if they are dressed as doctors, musicians, businessmen or anything else, it's not based on profession, it's based on ethnicity because before they got on that plane to hijack it they had previous lifes as businessmen, musicians etc... So for that you can deduct that the planes are not being hijacked by nuns, or musicians, or doctors, but rather by people of a particular race and it is not white, black or asian.

[El Che]

quote:

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Originally posted by Soback:

And also, if you think people are being paranoid and profiling is bad. Here's and example.

If I go into the forest to get some pine cones, I am not going to be looking for pine cones under every single tree, I'll be looking for pine cones under pine trees because they are the ones producing the cones.

So common sense dictates, I am not going to be searching nuns, and some fat guy with his wife and three kids for bombs because they haven't hijacked and blown up any planes, I'll be looking at people of middle eastern descent because they are the ones that have.

And it doesn't matter if they are dressed as doctors, musicians, businessmen or anything else, it's not based on profession, it's based on ethnicity because before they got on that plane to hijack it they had previous lifes as businessmen, musicians etc... So for that you can deduct that the planes are not being hijacked by nuns, or musicians, or doctors, but rather by people of a particular race and it is not white, black or asian.

---

So there's NO way that terrorist organizations could possibly have people who are NOT of middle eastern descent working for them, right?

[El Che]

quote:

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Originally posted by Soback:

And also, if you think people are being paranoid and profiling is bad. Here's and example.

If I go into the forest to get some pine cones, I am not going to be looking for pine cones under every single tree, I'll be looking for pine cones under pine trees because they are the ones producing the cones.

So common sense dictates, I am not going to be searching nuns, and some fat guy with his wife and three kids for bombs because they haven't hijacked and blown up any planes, I'll be looking at people of middle eastern descent because they are the ones that have.

And it doesn't matter if they are dressed as doctors, musicians, businessmen or anything else, it's not based on profession, it's based on ethnicity because before they got on that plane to hijack it they had previous lifes as businessmen, musicians etc... So for that you can deduct that the planes are not being hijacked by nuns, or musicians, or doctors, but rather by people of a particular race and it is not white, black or asian.

---

So there's NO way that terrorist organizations could possibly have people who are NOT of middle eastern descent working for them, right?

[Steve Schacher]

Are you living in the world of the possible, no matter how remote, or the world of the probable, based on past evidence and likelihood?

[Steve Schacher]

Are you living in the world of the possible, no matter how remote, or the world of the probable, based on past evidence and likelihood?

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Schacher:

Are you living in the world of the possible, no matter how remote,

or the world of the probable, based on past evidence and likelihood?

---

You know the answer to that question, I'm sure....LOL

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Steve Schacher:

Are you living in the world of the possible, no matter how remote,

or the world of the probable, based on past evidence and likelihood?

---

You know the answer to that question, I'm sure....LOL