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quote:

Not sure if that's Sarcasm or not, but in politic's I don't like Sarcasm.. it get's people killed..

I hardly find that a PLAN, I find that more like a personnel Vendetta...

HELP IS ON THE WAY.

quote:

I want him to tell me EXACTLY what is going to do

America was born in pursuit of an idea - that a free people with diverse beliefs can govern themselves in peace.

Throughout our history, we have forged powerful alliances to defend, encourage, and promote that idea around the world. Through two World Wars, the Cold War, the Gulf War and Kosovo, America led instead of going it alone. We respected the world - and the world respected us.

Today, our leadership has walked away from more than a century of American leadership in the world to embrace a new - and dangerously ineffective - American disregard for the world. They bully instead of persuade. They act alone when they could assemble a team. They confuse leadership with going it alone. They fail to understand that real leadership means standing by your principles and rallying others to join you.

John Kerry and John Edwards believe in a better, stronger America - an America that is respected, not just feared. An America that listens and leads - that cherishes freedom, safeguards our people, uplifts others, forges alliances, and deserves respect. This is the America they believe in. This is the America they are fighting for. And this is the America we can be.

Today, we face three great challenges above all others - First, to win the global war against terror; Second, to stop the spread of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons; Third, to promote democracy, freedom, and opportunity around the world, starting by winning the peace in Iraq. To meet these challenges, John Kerry's national security policy will be guided by four imperatives:

Launch And Lead A New Era Of Alliances

The threat of terrorism demands alliances on a global scale - to utilize every available resource to get the terrorists before they can strike at us. As president, John Kerry will lead a coalition of the able - because no force on earth is more able than the United States and its allies.

Modernize The World's Most Powerful Military To Meet New Threats

John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to transform the world's most powerful military to better address the modern threats of terrorism and proliferation, while ensuring that we have enough properly trained and equipped troops to meet our enduring strategic and regional missions.

Deploy All That Is In America's Arsenal

The war on terror cannot be won by military might alone. As president, John Kerry will deploy all the forces in America's arsenal - our diplomacy, our intelligence system, our economic power, and the appeal of our values and ideas - to make America more secure and prevent a new generation of terrorists from emerging.

Free America From Its Dangerous Dependence On Mideast Oil

To secure our full independence and freedom, we must free America from its dangerous dependence on Mideast oil. By tapping American ingenuity, we can achieve that goal while growing our economy and protecting our environment.

The measure of a strong economy is a growing middle-class where every American has a chance to work and an opportunity to succeed.

In America, a rising tide is supposed to lift all boats. But today, Americans are working harder, earning less, and paying more for health care, college, and taxes. Corporate profits are soaring, the government keeps expanding, but the opportunities for our middle-class are shrinking.

It's time to bring those opportunities back. John Kerry and John Edwards know that we're stronger when we create good-paying jobs here, not ship them overseas. They want to reward hardworking middle-class families with tax breaks, not larger bills. They want to expand the reach of opportunity, not the size of government. And they want to lead an America where we work together to invest in the jobs of tomorrow.

John Kerry and John Edwards have seen the faces and heard the voices of struggling middle-class families. But they've come away convinced more than ever that we're a country of optimists - a country that can do better and think bigger about the challenges we face. We can grow our economy by strengthening our middle-class. And we can make America richer by giving everyone a chance to build a better life for their families.

John Kerry and John Edwards' plan to build a stronger economy will:

Create Good-Paying Jobs

As president, John Kerry will cut taxes for businesses that create jobs here in America instead of moving them overseas. John Kerry and John Edwards will also stand up for workers by enforcing our trade agreements.

Cut Middle-Class Taxes To Raise Middle-Class Incomes

When John Kerry is president, middle-class taxes will go down. Ninety-eight percent of all Americans and 99 percent of American businesses will get a tax cut under the Kerry-Edwards plan.

Make Washington Live Within A Budget

John Kerry will cut the deficit in half during his first four years in office. He will end corporate welfare as we know it, roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans, and impose a real cap to keep spending in check. And when John Kerry puts forward a new idea, he'll tell you how he's going to pay for it.

Invest In The Jobs Of Tomorrow

Today, businesses are harnessing new technology to manufacture energy-efficient cars, high-grade steel, advanced plastics and other new products. And this requires a bigger, skilled labor force to make them. John Kerry and John Edwards believe we should invest in these jobs and invest in the people who will fill them.

Affordable, high-quality health care will keep our families healthy, our businesses competitive, and our country strong.

Over the last three years, family premiums have increased by more than $3,512 and prescription drug prices have grown four times faster than inflation. These skyrocketing costs have hurt our economy and forced many families into bankruptcy.

We deserve a president who understands that in America, regular check-ups shouldn't empty family checkbooks - a president who will put people ahead of insurance and drug companies.

John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to address soaring premiums and cut Americans a break. Their plan will lower family premiums by up to $1,000 a year, cut waste from the system, lower the cost of prescription drugs to provide real relief to seniors, and use targeted tax cuts to extend affordable, high-quality coverage to 95 percent of Americans, including every child. And because John Kerry and John Edwards believe that everyone's health is equally important, they will provide all Americans with access to the same coverage that members of Congress give themselves.

To make affordable health care a right - not a privilege - for every American, John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Cut Your Premiums

John Kerry and John Edwards will cut family premiums by up to $1,000. That's $1,000 in real savings people can use to buy groceries, pay the bills, and save for their children's future. And that will mean more jobs and more competitive American businesses.

Cover All Americans With Quality Care

The Kerry-Edwards plan will give every American access to the range of high-quality, affordable plans available to members of Congress and extend coverage to 95 percent of Americans, including every American child. Their plan will also fight to erase the health disparities that persist along racial and economic lines, ensure that people with HIV and AIDS have the care they need, end discrimination against Americans with disabilities and mental illnesses, and ensure equal treatment for mental illness in our health system.

Cut the Cost of Prescription Drugs

The Kerry-Edwards plan will reduce prescription drug prices by allowing the re-importation of safe prescription drugs from Canada, overhauling the Medicare drug plan, ensuring low-cost drugs, and ending artificial barriers to generic drug competition.

Cut Waste And Inefficiency

Today, approximately 25 percent of health care costs are wasted on paperwork and administrative processing. The Kerry-Edwards plan harnesses American ingenuity to cut waste, save billions, and take new steps to ensure patient privacy.

Together, Americans will be freer and stronger when we break our dependence on foreign oil.

Today, we consume 2.5 million barrels of oil per day from the Middle East, where instability has pushed prices to record highs. These soaring energy costs are burdening middle-class families with higher gas prices, and our dependence on Middle East oil is putting our national security at risk.

America will be safer and freer when the resources that fuel our economy are in our own hands, when we develop new energy sources right here in America.

John Kerry and John Edwards will put America on the path towards energy independence. They will harness the full force of American optimism and ingenuity to invest in new technologies and alternative fuels, create tax incentives that help automakers produce more fuel efficient cars, and reward the consumers who buy them. We invented and built the cars we drive today - we can invent and build the cars we drive tomorrow, too.

The Kerry-Edwards plan will increase energy conservation and create clean, renewable sources of energy that no terrorist can sabotage and no foreign government can seize. Their plan will also save billions by cutting waste and pork-barrel spending in Washington.

John Kerry and John Edwards believe that achieving an energy independent America - an America strong at home and secure in the world - is the great project for our generation.

To create an energy independent America, John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Explore And Develop New Energy Sources

Tomorrow's energy economy will be fueled by new energy sources. The Kerry-Edwards plan will invest in the research and exploration needed to turn ideas into fuel and develop renewable energy sources.

Develop Tomorrow's Technology Today

Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, America will take the lead in developing the new technology and production methods needed to ensure that resources such as coal and natural gas are used more efficiently and cleanly, and fully integrated into the New Energy Economy.

Make America Energy Independent Of Middle East Oil

Our security in the war on terror demands an end to our dependence on Middle East oil. Under the Kerry-Edwards plan, we will strengthen our national security while growing our economy and protecting our environment.

The most basic responsibility of a president is defending our homeland.

We've seen some progress in making America more secure since September 11 - but there is still much more to be done. Today our government is not doing enough to make us safe. Our intelligence services remain fragmented and lack coordination. Our borders and ports are full of holes. Our chemical plants are vulnerable to attack. And across America, police officers, firefighters, and other first responders still lack the information, gear, and equipment to do their jobs safely and successfully.

America needs a new strategy for homeland security that takes steps as big as the threats we face. John Kerry and John Edwards have that strategy. They will do whatever it takes to make America safe - coordinate our intelligence agencies, take action on all key fronts, stand up for security whenever special interests stand in the way, and get the needed resources to the first responders who defend America every day.

John Kerry and John Edwards will offer a new security strategy that addresses five major challenges:

Track And Stop Terrorists

Many of the intelligence problems that allowed terrorists to slip into our country before 9/11 have not been addressed. John Kerry and John Edwards will improve our ability to gather, analyze, and share information so we can track down and stop terrorists before they cause harm.

Protect Our Borders And Shores

Today, our borders, our ports, and our airports are not as secure as they must be. John Kerry and John Edwards will make our airports, seaports, and borders more secure without intruding upon personal liberties.

Harden Vulnerable Targets

Chemical industry lobbying has kept the Bush administration from strengthening security at chemical plants, where an attack could endanger 1 million Americans. John Kerry and John Edwards will always put Americans' safety ahead of big business interests and take strong measures to harden likely targets-including nuclear plants, trains, and subways-against possible attack.

Improve Domestic Readiness

Our first defenders will respond to any attack with courage and heroism-but they also need the equipment and manpower to do the job. John Kerry and John Edwards will back up their words with resources and ensure that America's first responders have everything they need to protect their communities.

Guard Liberty.

We must always remember that terrorists do not just target our lives - they target our way of life. John Kerry and John Edwards believe in an America that is safe and free, and they will protect our personal liberties as well as our personal security.

Education is at the core of America's basic promise - that all Americans should be able to make the most of their potential.

John Kerry and John Edwards have a vision for American education: every child should be held to high standards, and every school should have the resources and the responsibility to meet those standards. Every classroom should have a great teacher. Every young person should graduate from high school, and every young person who works hard and wants to go to college should be able to afford it. And all Americans should be able to get the skills they need to succeed throughout their lives.

Today, our country is not realizing that vision. Schools do not have the resources they need to succeed, Washington is not working to make reform succeed and children are losing out. One million students are dropping out of high school every year, and because the price of college has risen by 35 percent over the last three years, 220,000 qualified young people were priced out of college last year.

John Kerry and John Edwards have a plan to do better-to ensure that all Americans can make the most of their God-given talents. They will offer schools the resources and the reforms they need to give every American child a great education, regardless of their income, race, or family background.

John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Meet Our Responsibilities To Our Schools

John Kerry and John Edwards will establish a National Education Trust Fund to ensure that schools always get the funding they need. They will also ensure that No Child Left Behind works for schools, states, and teachers by rewarding those who meet higher standards and rewarding schools that turn around and improve.

Continue Reform And Put A Great Teacher In Every Classroom

Great teachers are the foundation of a great school. As president, John Kerry will enact a new bargain that offers teachers more, including better training and better pay in troubled schools, and asks for more in return, including fast, fair ways to make sure that teachers who don't belong in the classroom don't stay there.

Offer 3.5 Million After-School Opportunities Through "School's Open 'Til Six"

John Kerry and John Edwards are strong supporters of after-school programs. They give students extra help, keep them out of trouble, and offer peace of mind to working parents. The Kerry-Edwards "School's Open 'Til 'Six" initiative will offer after-school opportunities to 3.5 million children, through programs that are open until 6 p.m. and offer safe transportation for children.

Make College Affordable For All And Expand Lifelong Learning

As president, John Kerry will offer a fully refundable College Opportunity Tax credit on up to $4,000 of tuition for every year of college and offer aid to states that keep tuitions down. And he will launch a new effort to ensure that all of our workers can get the technical skills and advanced training they need.

As Americans, we have the right to breathe unpolluted air, drink safe water, eat uncontaminated food, live in clean communities and enjoy our natural treasures. Over the last three years, we have seen these rights eroded. We have seen hard-won environmental gains rolled back, our air polluted and our water contaminated.

In the 21st Century, we can have progress without pollution - we can grow our economy while protecting our natural resources. But we need a leader who looks to the future and invests in innovation.

Throughout his career, John Kerry has fought to clean up toxic waste sites, to keep our air and water clean, and to protect the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and other pristine wilderness areas. Recently, the League of Conservation Voters called Senator Kerry an "environmental champion."

John Kerry and John Edwards will set a new standard of environmental excellence for America. They will honor our national treasures and pay tribute to our natural wonders, while renewing our nation's promise of clean air, clean water and a bountiful landscape for all. They recognize that we owe it to our families, our communities, and our planet to defend our environmental values and protect our environmental rights.

John Kerry and John Edwards will:

Create Cleaner, Greener Communities

Together, we can improve the environment in backyards and communities across America. John Kerry and John Edwards will revitalize contaminated industrial sites, get toxins out of communities, guarantee our children access to clean, safe parks and baseball fields, and take on traffic congestion and sprawl.

Enact A Conservation Covenant With America

John Kerry and John Edwards believe that Americans are united in our respect for the land. They will enact a Conservation Covenant with America to ensure balanced protection for our public lands and adequate resources to enhance our national parks.

Protect Our Health By Reducing Dangerous Air Emissions

As president, John Kerry will reverse the Bush-Cheney rollbacks to our Clean Air Act, plug loopholes in the law, take aggressive action to stop acid rain, and use innovative, job-creating programs to reduce mercury emissions and other emissions that contribute to global warming.

Restore America's Waters

Today, approximately 45 percent of our nation's waterways do not meet the "drinkable, swimmable and fishable" standard set out by the Clean Water Act 30 years ago. As president, John Kerry will implement a "Restore America's Waters" campaign, an integrated approach to protecting our precious, limited water resources. He will work with states on the toughest water quality challenges, restore damaged watersheds, protect wetlands, invest in our waterfronts and coastal communities, and protect our oceans.

And if that isnt enough information for you...

just take the time to check out his website, where he explains the issues:

http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/

quote:

Uh huh, it's like I said.. The terrorist's want this guy in office because the moment he get's in office and the moment he use's the UN, WE WILL LOSE THIS WAR

I wish you would quit referring to the KERRY supporters, as TERRORIST!!. Even BUSH, doesnt believe he can win this war...or does he..which is it?

quote:

ÔÇ£CanÔÇÖt Win The War On TerrorÔÇØ Asked ÔÇ£Can we win [the war on terror]?ÔÇØ Bush said, ÔÇ£I donÔÇÖt think you can win it. But I think you can create conditions so that the - those who use terror as a tool are less acceptable in parts of the world.ÔÇØ [NBC, ÔÇ£The Today Show,ÔÇØ 8/30/04]

on, and on, and on...Now, do you REALLY want me to jump in with BOTH feet?

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I must say, those are some good goals, but I'm not convinced..

Several problems

1. None of those goal's matter if Kerry let's the UN get involved in this war

2. Information provided before the debate's and before 2003-2004 states that Kerry plan's on Cutting our military. Until I hear him say other wise, I won't vote for him

3. He betrayed America during the vietnam war, he has YET to apologize to the HUNDREDS of Americans who where in POW camp's who DIED because of his speech to the Commitee

4. He said that he would release his military record if Bush did. Well Bush did, and Kerry still hasn't.. the reason is because if he does then he'll lose the election instantly

If you're going to tell someone to do something before you do it then you best follow through, because since he didn't follow through it just shows that he's to afraid of the consequences if he's so confident in his military record what does he have to fear from releasing it?

I didn't call the Kerry supporters Terrorists, I called the muslum's who are killing our troops TERRORISTS

Street, I expected you to be misguided by that term

"We can't win the war on terror"

Bush is right, we can't win it because this war will go on for many many MANY year's to come.. it'll take a century, a decade, perhaps even more to come those to winning

But, we have killed MORE terrorist's then they have killed ours

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The thing is

It's not actually KERRY'S site

It's run by his campaign

Some of thing's street have said are true, after checking the congresstional records he has said some of those

SOME

But not all, it IS true that he said he was going to cut our military and that right there is causing me not to vote for him

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quote:

Bush is right, we can't win it because this war will go on for many many MANY year's to come.. it'll take a century, a decade, perhaps even more to come those to winning

REAL FUNNY thing, here. I distinctly remember that two faced liar, BUSH, claimin he could win this war, just LAST NIGHT on the debates. I will review my tapes, but i know i am correct here.

and as far as it being KERRY"S site, I think you should concede, that a political campaign is as reliable, a representation of the candidate and his issues, as your going to get....from ANY party....duh?

Fact is: the BUSH methodology, for fighting this war, is misplaced, and inappropriately applied.

PERIOD!

Bush, has no concept, what kind of TERROR, he is apt to be breeding, or from what front. All he knows is fear, and retalitory response. He doesnt even have a coherent grasp, as to what TERRORISM really is, much less, what it will take to stop such attacks.

And IRAQ(no connection with TERRORIST) is a war, he does not understand enough to even gain control. Imagine that. The country's troops ran away(according to Bush), and with all our military might and technology, we cant contain the opposition. All he can do is babble, "its hard work"

I suppose, It has'nt even entered your mind, that this AIRFORCE guardsman, reject...might not have ANY EXPERIANCE, in this field..huh? And I suppose, you did not notice, the incompetance showing, during the debate?

AMAZING, how superior, your intellect is...

[ 10-01-2004, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: street ]

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Street, why are you so clueless?

I really, really want to know?

Is it drugs, did you get a head wound? Is it mental, is it physical?

I mean what is it really that has you so unstable, and making NO sense whatsoever?

If you ACTUALLY believe that what Kerry said last night made any kind of sense, then you are about as out there as he is.

Bilateral talks with Korea? Excuse me, we tried that, they walked away. We need China to put the pressure on.

National security with the UN's permission.

We don't need the UN's permission to defend ourselves.

Alliances, we have alliances, what he was talking about was France and Germany, and of course going through the UN.

Nuclear bunker busters, it's actually the only thing that would be capable of taking out the WMD stores in some of these rogue countries, and Kerry would vote against them, just as he voted against most other arms programs, and voted AGAINST the 87 billion that went to giving our soldiers Armor, and armor for HUMMS's etc.

Kerry was absolutely CLUELESS, he talked purty, but it was ALL fluff, there was NO substance at ALL.

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quote:

Street, why are you so clueless?

I really, really want to know?

Is it drugs, did you get a head wound? Is it mental, is it physical?

I mean what is it really that has you so unstable, and making NO sense whatsoever

Your asking a question, which you should ask your shrink, concerning your own position.

Dont EVEN ask me such rediculous, demeaning CRAP!! and expect an answer. An answer, you would not be capable of comprehending, in the first place.

quote:

If you ACTUALLY believe that what Kerry said last night made any kind of sense, then you are about as out there as he is.


THANK YOU!! just reinforces, my view of reality to be balanced, and ACCURATE !

quote:

Bilateral talks with Korea? Excuse me, we tried that, they walked away. We need China to put the pressure on.


You better check out your "IMAGINED" congressional records, which you continue to refer to.

BUSH walked away, NOT THE KOREANS...DUH

quote:

Nuclear bunker busters, it's actually the only thing that would be capable of taking out the WMD stores in some of these rogue countries, and Kerry would vote against them, just as he voted against most other arms programs, and voted AGAINST the 87 billion that went to giving our soldiers Armor, and armor for HUMMS's etc.


Sorry, your facts all screwed up again..

here, let me do it for you:

thats me, pounding myself, for trying to reason with people of no sound reasoning ability.

SHEESH!!

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Poor Streeet,

I guess I really pissed you off that time...

ROFLMAO!!

Your arrogance and sheer ignorance is astounding, totally astounding, I am awed at your total lack of understanding of foreign policy and history.

Poor, Poor, upset Street.

Yes, we walked away, after they had a hissy fit and walked and came back, because North Korea wanted to bribe us again, just as they did with Clinton, oh yes, that WORKED!!

So instead we got the countries that were MOST effected by a nuclear North Korea and told them to deal with their neighbor, and that is EXACTLY what they are doing.

Seriously, how can you be so clueless as to think that Kerry's plan would work? Historically it has been a total failure, and Kerry wants to try that again?

Come on Street, even you should know better.

I am glad that you are pounding yourself, maybe it will shake your brain up enough to actually put together coherent and logical thoughts.

We can only hope....

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quote:

See Street

Again, you failed to provide proof that Jaguar's fact's are screwed up

That's why you aren't worth argueing with. You denie something without proof

I stopped; because, I realized you have no concept, as to where the 87 billion actually went, and really am tired of teaching kindergarden politics 101.

believe whatever you want.

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87 never got passed, and if it had then our troops would've been better equiped

And yes, continue to ignore my questions, it must proves that you ARE a liberal who can't answer the question's put in front of him...

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quote:

I guess I really pissed you off that time...

ROFLMAO!!

Your arrogance and sheer ignorance is astounding, totally astounding, I am awed at your total lack of understanding of foreign policy and history.

Poor, Poor, upset Street.


Where are you getting these, impressions. I seriously believe your lost in your own world of illusion.

PISSED OFF? not likely. Frustrated?, a little,

You fail to recognize, I know the difference between people of intellect, and people who hide behind twisted facts, and outright lies.

You being one of the latter, as your not even old enough to have served in vietnam, and claim you did; THEREFORE, I am only frustrated with myself, for attempting to speak with you, and your little follower, but that is neither here nor there, now is it?

quote:

Seriously, how can you be so clueless as to think that Kerry's plan would work?

If you had really, ever been in the FIELD, you would understand..how kerry's plan can and would work, if applied as he promises. Much more likely to succeed, than bush opening a killing ground in the middle east, just because he was afraid of an enemy he could not see, but continues to breed.

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quote:

Originally posted by street:

quote:

See Street

Again, you failed to provide proof that Jaguar's fact's are screwed up

That's why you aren't worth argueing with. You denie something without proof

I stopped; because, I realized you have no concept, as to where the 87 billion actually went, and really am tired of teaching kindergarden politics 101.

believe whatever you want.


Ohh, look at that, Street is angry. LOL

The 87 Billion was for a number of things, A: to armour our troops and to make sure they had enough weapons, supplies etc, and the rest was for the reconstruction of Iraq and Afghanistan, which, probably went to Haliburton, the ONLY company in the world capable of this type of logistical operation.

That is where you were going? RIGHT?

You were gonna say that a lot of that money went into Cheney's back pocket, were you not?

If you were, that's a lie, but if you were gonna say that Cheneys old friends at Haliburton are making good money from this, you'd be right, but they are doing EXACTLY what they promised they would do in Iraq.

Then again, you don't care about that do you?

It doesn't fit your "Agenda".

Poor Street, losing hope, your boy Kerry is STILL down in the polls, he really screwed the pooch last night with some KILLER soundbites that the Bush campaign is gonna kill him with.

His liberal instincts were splashed ALL over the TV last night, and a lot of Americans are realizing that Kerry is SKERRY, and I mean downright FRIGHTENING.

Poor, Poor Street, Hating Bush just wasn't enough to get it done.

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quote:

Originally posted by street:

quote:

I guess I really pissed you off that time...

ROFLMAO!!

Your arrogance and sheer ignorance is astounding, totally astounding, I am awed at your total lack of understanding of foreign policy and history.

Poor, Poor, upset Street.


Where are you getting these, impressions. I seriously believe your lost in your own world of illusion.

PISSED OFF? not likely. Frustrated?, a little,

You fail to recognize, I know the difference between people of intellect, and people who hide behind twisted facts, and outright lies.

You being one of the latter, as your not even old enough to have served in vietnam, and claim you did; THEREFORE, I am only frustrated with myself, for attempting to speak with you, and your little follower, but that is neither here nor there, now is it?

quote:

Seriously, how can you be so clueless as to think that Kerry's plan would work?

If you had really, ever been in the FIELD, you would understand..how kerry's plan can and would work, if applied as he promises. Much more likely to succeed, than bush opening a killing ground in the middle east, just because he was afraid of an enemy he could not see, but continues to breed.


You actually believe that?

ROFLMAO!!

You need a reality check Street, perhaps you need to go out in the field again.

The real world has obviously left you behind somewhere.

The world has changed Street, perhaps you haven't realized that?

Poor Poor Street, the hate Bush, just isn't working out so well.

HE IS getting the job done, the terrorists are dying, and American civilians are not.

Libya has turned over it's ENTIRE WMD program, nah, the Bush doctrine doesn't work, it just gets QUICK results.

Poor POOR delusional Street, still thinking it's the cold war and the big bad soviets are gonna blow us up if we look at them wrong.

These are NOT soviets, they are terrorists, terrorists that are and will be killed, just as is happening in Somarra right now.

We destroyed the Soviet Union by showing strength, we will destroy the terrorists the same way.

Playing diplomat with people that want nothing but to Kill you, is good way to get yourself killed, Killing them, is the best way to make sure that they won't be able to get what they want.

ROFLMAO!!

Poor, Poor Street, really is quite clueless about me, I feel for you, I really, really do.

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you know, your pathetic slanderous remarks, are becoming a real bore, Not to mention, your inability to think for yourself.

Come on Jag, I am sure you can come up with some more creative ways to FLAME!!

or is your vocabulary, truly so limited?

as far as clueless...how often you get permission from your daddy to go sit on the dock?

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quote:

Originally posted by street:

you know, your pathetic slanderous remarks, are becoming a real bore, Not to mention, your inability to think for yourself.

Come on Jag, I am sure you can come up with some more creative ways to FLAME!!

or is your vocabulary, truly so limited?

as far as clueless...how often you get permission from your daddy to go sit on the dock?

Oh, I give facts, I tell where the money went and you slander me back.

How fascinating......

Come on Street, so tell me, where did the 87 billion go, since I seem to be clueless about everything and cannot think for myself.

So tell us all where did that 87 billion go, I really want to hear this, come on, oh great and knowledgeable Street, tell us lowly ones, where did the money go?

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OK, enough of the Street stuff.

I think this picture says it all about last night.

debate.jpg

Courtesy of Barking Moonbat.com

Warning, if you are offended by rough language, or conservative ideas, or NON PC writings, do NOT click on the above link.

[ 10-01-2004, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Jaguar ]

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Washington -- President Bush portrays his position on Iraq as steady and unwavering as he represents Sen. John Kerry's stance as ambiguous and vacillating.

"Mixed signals are the wrong signals,'' Bush said last week during a campaign stop in Bangor, Maine. "I will continue to lead with clarity, and when I say something, I'll mean what I say.''

Yet, heading into the first presidential debate Thursday, which will focus on foreign affairs, there is much in the public record to suggest that Bush's words on Iraq have evolved -- or, in the parlance his campaign often uses to describe Kerry, flip-flopped.

An examination of more than 150 of Bush's speeches, radio addresses and responses to reporters' questions reveal a steady progression of language, mostly to reflect changing circumstances such as the failure to discover weapons of mass destruction, the lack of ties between Iraq and the al Qaeda terrorist network and the growing violence of Iraqi insurgents.

A war that was waged principally to overthrow a dictator who possessed "some of the most lethal weapons ever devised'' has evolved into a mission to rid Iraq of its "weapons-making capabilities'' and to offer democracy and freedom to its 25 million residents.

The president no longer expounds upon deposed Iraqi strongman Saddam Hussein's connections with al Qaeda, rarely mentions the rape and torture rooms or the illicit weapons factories that he once warned posed a direct threat to the United States.

In the fall of 2002, as Bush sought congressional support for the use of force, he described the vote as a sign of solidarity that would strengthen his ability to keep the peace. Today, his aides describe it unambiguously as a vote to go to war.

Whether such shifts constitute a reasonable evolution of language to reflect the progression of war, or an about-face to justify unmet expectations, is a subjective judgment tinged by partisan prejudice.

Yet a close look at the record makes it difficult to support Bush campaign chairman Ken Mehlman's description of the upcoming debate as a "square-off between resolve and optimism versus vacillation and defeatism.''

A careful reading of Bush's statements on Iraq reveals many instances of consistency, just as The Chronicle's examination of Kerry's words found consistency in the Democratic challenger's statements. Over and over, Bush stated that the tragedy of Sept. 11, 2001, changed the way Americans -- including the commander in chief -- viewed the threat of terrorism and lowered the threshold of risk Americans were willing to accept.

"Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble. And this is a risk we must not take,'' Bush said in a well-received speech before the U.N. General Assembly on Sept 12, 2002.

Bush echoed those words earlier this month as he accepted his party's nomination for president a few miles away, at Madison Square Garden in New York:

"Do I forget the lessons of September the 11th and take the word of a madman, or do I take action to defend our country? Faced with that choice, I will defend America every time.''

Yet the more specific explanation of a mission that has cost more than 1, 000 American lives, thousands of Iraqi lives and well over $100 billion has undergone a transformation.

Prior to the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, Bush focused on weapons of mass destruction and stated the U.S. goal in straightforward terms.

"Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament. And in order to disarm, it would mean regime change,'' Bush said at a news conference two weeks before he took the nation to war.

"And our mission won't change,'' Bush continued. "Our mission is precisely what I just stated.''

Six weeks later, speaking to workers at an Army tank plant in Ohio, the goal seemed to expand.

"Our mission -- besides removing the regime that threatened us, besides ending a place where the terrorists could find a friend, besides getting rid of weapons of mass destruction -- our mission has been to bring humanitarian aid and restore basic services and put this country, Iraq, on the road to self- government.''

Last month, speaking to supporters at a campaign event in Wisconsin, Bush put it more plainly: "The goal in Iraq and Afghanistan is for there to be democratic and free countries who are allies in the war on terror. That's the goal.''

In the course of the campaign, such shifts have been characterized by Bush's opponents as lies.

"He failed to tell the truth about the rationale for going to war,'' Kerry said during a speech at New York University last week in which he said Bush has offered 23 different rationales for going to war. "If his purpose was to confuse and mislead the American people, he succeeded.''

The count comes from a study conducted by an honors thesis written by a University of Illinois student, which actually attributed 19 rationales -- none mutually exclusive -- to Bush and four others to members of his administration.

Most of the rationales were on the table from the beginning. What changed was the emphasis.

Bush voiced no doubt from the beginning that Hussein possessed chemical, biological and potentially nuclear weapons.

"Year after year, Saddam Hussein has gone to elaborate lengths, spent enormous sums, taken great risks, to build and keep weapons of mass destruction,'' Bush said in his State of the Union address in January 2003.

By the following year, after no such weapons had been discovered and evidence suggested that much of the intelligence was wrong, Bush had toned down such talk and begun to speak of the "threat'' of Hussein developing such weapons.

In his State of the Union address last January, Bush spoke of Hussein's "mass destruction-related program activities."

"Look, there is no doubt that Saddam Husein was a dangerous person,'' the president told ABC's Diane Sawyer in an interview several weeks before that speech. "And there's no doubt we had a body of evidence providing that. And there is no doubt that the president must act, after 9/11, to make America a more secure country.''

Sawyer asked the president about the distinction between the "hard fact that there were weapons of mass destruction as opposed to the possibility that he could move to acquire those weapons.''

"So what's the difference?'' Bush responded. "The possibility that he could acquire weapons, if he were to acquire weapons, he would be the danger.''

"What would it take to convince you he didn't have weapons of mass destruction,'' Sawyer persisted.

"Saddam Hussein was a threat,'' Bush responded. "And the fact that he is gone means America is a safer country.''

In the months since, Bush has changed his standard speech to reflect that failure to discover the weapons.

"Although we have not found stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction, we were right to go into Iraq,'' Bush said in July in Tennessee. "We removed a declared enemy of America who had the capability of producing weapons of mass murder and could have passed that capability to terrorists bent on acquiring them. In the world after September the 11th, that was a risk we could not afford to take.''

There are a few instances where the president's words contradict developments or his previous statements.

On March 6, 2003, for example, Bush insisted during a prime-time news conference that he would offer a resolution before the United Nations calling for the use of force against Iraq even if other nations threatened to veto it.

"No matter what the whip count is, we're calling for the vote,'' Bush said.

A few days later, after it became apparent that the measure would not only be vetoed but might fail to win a majority of the Security Council, the Bush administration dropped its demand for a vote.

The president also said last month on NBC's "Today Show'' that "I don't think you can win'' the war on terrorism, explaining instead that the nation could greatly minimize the likelihood of terrorist attacks. The comment came after months of asserting the United States was winning, and would ultimately triumph, in its war on terror. The statement appeared to be little more than an inelegant way of adding nuance to his explanation, and the president quickly retreated from the words the following day.

Some statements now look off-base after developments in Iraq, such as Bush's response in the first days of the war after learning that Iraqis may have captured some Americans.

"I do know that we expect them to be treated humanely, just like we'll treat any prisoners of theirs that we capture humanely,'' Bush said, many months before American soldiers committed the atrocities at the Abu Ghraib prison.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

President Bush on Iraq

Sept. 12, 2002

Speech before the U.N. General Assembly

"Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble. And this is a risk we must not take.''

Sept. 19, 2002

Response to a reporter's question

"If you want to keep the peace, you've got to have the authorization to use force. ... This is a chance for Congress to indicate support. It's a chance for Congress to say, we support the administration's ability to keep the peace. That's what this is all about.''

Oct. 7, 2002

Speech before the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Cincinnati

"Saddam Hussein is harboring terrorists and the instruments of terror, the instruments of mass death and destruction. ... Knowing these realities, American must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.''

March 6, 2003

News conference

"Should we have to go in, our mission is very clear: disarmament. And in order to disarm, it would mean regime change.''

March 17, 2003

Address to nation (two days before invasion)

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised. The danger is clear: Using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country or any other.''

May 1, 2003

Aboard the aircraft carrier Abraham Lincoln

"Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed. ... The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September the 11, 2001 -- and still goes on."

Nov. 11, 2003

Veterans Day address

"Our mission in Iraq and Afghanistan is clear to our service members -- and clear to our enemies. Our men and women are fighting to secure the freedom of more than 50 million people who recently lived under two of the cruelest dictatorships on earth. Our men and women are fighting to help democracy and peace and justice rise in a troubled and violent region. Our men and women are fighting terrorist enemies thousands of miles away in the heart and center of their power, so that we do not face those enemies in the heart of America.''

Aug. 16, 2004

Speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars, Cincinnati

"Even though we did not find the stockpiles that we thought we would find, Saddam Hussein had the capability to make weapons of mass destruction, and he could have passed that capability on to our enemy, to the terrorists. It is not a risk after September the 11th that we could afford to take. Knowing what I know today, I would have taken the same action."

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

OK, enough of the Street stuff.

I think this picture says it all about last night.


I think that Kerry wants to rule world if you ask me. Getting the whole world together with him and him acting as Big Brother to them all. This I think is his true aspirations. Isn't there a prophecy in the bible about that?

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Interrupt all you want Nomad, you make some sense at least.

Street on the other hand, I am not sure what he is trying to say.

I have told him MANY times where the WMD's are, and he just does NOT believe me.

And BTW, China is about as excited for North Korea to have Nukes, as they would be about Taiwan getting Nukes, because if one rogue state goes Nuclear on someone, China has a LOT to lose economically.

China is putting pressure on NK, through sanctions etc, and the other countries involved are doing the same thing.

North Korea is a HURTING unit right now, that is why they are so desperate to get a Nuke, so they can blackmail us some more.

THEY made the promise to Clinton that they would NOT go after a Nuclear Weapons. In exchange we gave them billions of dollars in aid.

We are NOT going to give them ANY guarantees until they stop their Nuclear program.

They broke the treaty, the onus is on them to prove that they are serious about wanting to bargain, and stopping their nuclear program is the first step.

We disagree completely on this, North Korea respects NO one that bargains with them from a position of weakness, Clinton and Albright were NOT respected, they were laughed at, and allowed North Korea the tools to create their nuclear program.

Then at the FIRST opportunity, North Korea broke thier promises, and went ahead with it.

They get NO aid, and NO guarantees, until they fulfill their original promise. Otherwise, they will indeed face the consequences.

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quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

OK, enough of the Street stuff.

I think this picture says it all about last night.


I think that Kerry wants to rule world if you ask me. Getting the whole world together with him and him acting as Big Brother to them all. This I think is his true aspirations. Isn't there a prophecy in the bible about that?


Yes there is, it's also in the book of Nostradamis (which I believe in)

Big Brother will come and the world will be bathed in darkness, is one inscription in a book that I've read from the lib.

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Oh, and street, those are NOT flip flops, those are the natural evolution of the mission in Iraq.

THere are steps in warfare, you knew this? Yes?

each of those STEPS are perfect examples of a president that knows what is going on, and is willing to take the steps necassary to secure the peace.

The future will bear me out, and it will show you to be the chicken little, listener to liars that you are.

History Street, do you NOT listen to history?

Once again....Obviously NOT.....

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quote:

Originally posted by LostInSpace:

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

OK, enough of the Street stuff.

I think this picture says it all about last night.


I think that Kerry wants to rule world if you ask me. Getting the whole world together with him and him acting as Big Brother to them all. This I think is his true aspirations. Isn't there a prophecy in the bible about that?


Problem is that Bill and Hillary got there first.

If you think that Kerry is gonna get in the way of Hillary running in 2008, you got another think coming.

Kerry blew it BIG time when he brought in Carville and Begala, they answer ONLY to Clinton, and he wants to be the first, first husband.

Remember, the White House, and the country, belong to them as far as they are concerned, the others that inhabit it now are only borrowing it, until they get back.

Kerry has WAY too much baggage, the higher up's in his party are against him, and the 2 men that are supposed to help him are sabotaging him instead.

He CANNOT win, because then Hillary will have to wait, and she is NOT going to wait.

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quote:

Originally posted by street:

Nomad, you speak true and precise. as usual, i only wish i could speak as intelligent to those, who would rather not reason.


Oh give me a break with that grade crap. It doesn't mean anything in the arena of common sense and real intelligence. Here some examples:

"Thomas EdisonÔÇÖs teachers told him he was too stupid to learn anything.

Sir Isaac Newton did poorly in grade school.

Albert Einstein did not speak until he was four years old and could not read until he was seven years old.

Robert Frost was expelled from school for chronic daydreaming.

The young F.W. Woolworth, while working at a dry goods store, was not allowed to wait on customers because he ÔÇ£didn't have enough sense."

Abraham Lincoln entered the Black Hawk War as a captain and finished as a private.

A newspaper editor fired Walt Disney. Disney had, as the editor said, "no good ideas.ÔÇØ"

there are more I can give you. There are alot of college kids I know who are Ace students but are dumb as a brick when it comes to common sense and alot of other areas too.

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