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George W. Bush finally comes out with Social Security's dirty 'secret'...


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President Participates in Social Security Conversation in West Virginia

quote:

I have just come from the Bureau of Public Debt. I want to thank Van Zeck, Keith Rake, and Susan Chapman. Susan was the tour guide there at the Bureau of Public Debt. I went there because I'm trying to make a point about the Social Security trust. You see, a lot of people in America think there's a trust, in this sense -- that we take your money through payroll taxes and then we hold it for you, and then when you retire, we give it back to you. But that's not the way it works.

There is no "trust fund," just IOUs that I saw firsthand, that future generations will pay -- will pay for either in higher taxes, or reduced benefits, or cuts to other critical government programs.

The office here in Parkersburg stores those IOUs. They're stacked in a filing cabinet. Imagine -- the retirement security for future generations is sitting in a filing cabinet. It's time to strengthen and modernize Social Security for future generations with growing assets that you can control, that you call your own -- assets that the government cannot take away.

So why aren't more Republicans jumping on board for this?

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Bureau of Public Debt. Indeed! My off!

Notice that Mr Bush didn't mention any details about those IOUs But, we all know;

    [*]Where they came from

    [*]Who wanted the money

    [*]What it was wanted for

    [*]Who wrote the loans

Bless your heart Mr Bush, if you think for one second that I'm going to swallow that load of horse manure.

America is paying taxes upon taxes to support a huge conglomerate of blood sucking pigs that wallow in an eastern U.S. swamp.

Q: Where the hell is all that cash going????

A: Spent it all and then took out loans against future revenues. Spent that. took out more loans, spent that, took out more loans, etc etc ad nauseum.....

So, what were you trying to tell us Mr Bush?

That those IOU's are being paid with inbound funds from Social Security taxes? Or maybe the interest on the loans?

I guess it's all the Federal excise taxes we pay that pays your salary, huh?

America will pay for your retirement too Mr Bush, Not Social Security.

Let's take a look at what the honorable Mr Bush will get from America when his final term is up... * Thank "Supreme deity of your choice"

    [*]One hundred thousand dollars a year until he croaks.

    [*]Then, Mrs Bush gets it until she croaks.

    [*]A free home (Read Mansion)

    [*]The best personal security America can buy

    [*]A couple million dollars on the lecture circuit and maybe a book or two

    [*]Free medical care by the best doctors

Jiminy! I could get by very nicely on $8300.00 a month and free medical.

Title of the first book should be....

HOW I SCREWED AMERICA WITH MY BIG DICK CHENEY-

Don't worry I used Oil

Second book title...

It's Great to be the son of a Bonesman

Mr Bush and his pals have many more dirty secrets. The latest being; How can we get out of the retirement(Deadbeat) dole out and start making some money off of our workers, without them knowing about it?

I don't think that Americans need the Federal Government running their retirement programs.

Allowing that to happen would be another travesty like the current system.

Maybe we should declare bankruptcy and start over. Oh wait, they changed those rules. That option is out.

*Big sigh of relief from the owners of the banks that make up the Federal Reserve*

You know, the people that keep floating loans to the government and collecting prime interest from the treasury.

Whaddya know? Aren't they the same guys who...

    [*]lobbied to have the bankruptcy laws changed

    [*]bombard everyone with credit card offers?

    [*]promote deficit spending?

Yup, same ones.

It doesn't matter if they shift gears and change the Social Security arrangement. It's still the government controlling your money and your life.

I call Bullshit!

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It's been a ponzi scheme from the beginning, and then when they tossed it into the general fund, it had no where to go but down.

Anyone that did not realize that there was NO trustfund, had to have been out in the country somewhere and have no news whatsoever.

This is NOT a secret, it's just the truth, and the Republicans are just as guilty as the Democrats.

Lock box? Yeah, right, sure thing....

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What is a Ponzi Scheme?

Anyone with one eye and half a brain could see that the whole deal was a flim flam. But people were less in the know back in the 30's. Since then everything has advanced except the house and the senate.

No matter how they slice it, this ham smells.

I call it theft by deception. There are alot of people sitting in jail cells for doing the same thing.

Q: So why do the politicos get away with it?

A: Because they control the law from the bottom to the top and they only do things that are good for them. It's stranger than strange.

Mr Bush has given us nothing but vague references on what can be done to fix the problem.

I think I can say with reasonable assuredness that whatever is decided will cost us all and someone is going to make a tidy profit from it.

I have some ideas for a cure,

  1. Take away the president's personal aircraft. That sucker costs alot of money to put in the air and Mr Bush has been using it to tour the country and the world. Alot! Put his arse on a military transport and I betcha he'll keep his butt planted in the Oval Office.
  2. Take away the cushy retirement programs the politocos created for themselves. Then we'll see who is genuine in their desire to serve the country and not themself.
  3. Pass a law that requires workers to have a 401k plan and show proof of their contributions to it on their tax returns.
  4. Fund the current system with a national sales tax of 1%.on the dollar. Doing that alone would probably erase that national debt within a year and provide enough money to give our aging population a decent stipend to live on and better medical care to boot.
  5. Start cutting back on the pork barrel spending that provides billions of dollars to their wealthy buddies

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

What is a Ponzi Scheme?


Ponzi Scheme = a flim flam Deal.

I wrote off SSI long ago they'll never fix it. You better start a 401k or something along that line.

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quote:


Originally posted by Remo Williams:

I wrote off SSI long ago they'll never fix it. You better start a 401k or something along that line.


It's way too late for me to do that.

I'm at the mercy of the Neocons now I'm afraid.

Mr Bush spoke of anyone born prior to 1950 as having nothing to worry about. Yeah, right.

I was birthed in 1954, so I guess I'm probably going to get screwed with the rest of the Baby Boomers. But, ha ha, I'm already getting my money back through disability. Sorry to be a burden on the rest of you fine folks. Hold onto your jobs, my future is at stake.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cc:

Some consider the stock market a ponzi scheme as well.

And sometimes it can be, all depends on the capital of the companies and the value of their stock. If the stock value is more then the value of the company itself, it might be considered a kind of ponzi scheme, but the stock market itself is NOT a ponzi scheme. because it is based on real assets, not air.

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quote:

NOT a ponzi scheme. because it is based on real assets, not air

Yeah right ...tell that to the Enron investors.

Not to mention Worldcom and others.

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As I said, MOST companies stock are based on the REAL assets of the company, as well as the dividends payed.

Enron and Worldcom etc are exceptions to the rule, and they broke the rules BIG time, which is why they no longer exist.

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quote:

As I said, MOST companies stock are based on the REAL assets of the company, as well as the dividends payed.

Actually,and I just triple checked,you didn't say 'MOST' and you didn't say 'REAL'.

Talk about con jobs....

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"Exceptions to the rule" means all others should mean most but I will give you that on a technicality. He did say "real assets".

Let's tweak this a bit.

If I die before drawing let my contrubutions be an inheritable asset. That's about the only part I like about this whole thing. If I begin to draw that inheritable asset could be reduced by a percentage every year till it was nothing very shortly (5 or 7 years?). My suggestion is not true yet but the 4% being inheritable I like.

The things I don't like:

Kerry: I have a plan. Beat up for not having a plan.

Bush: I have a plan. Beat up for not having a plan. I agree with others. Explain it to me and I will tell you if I like it.

Four percent is not much. Why not more?

It will still be gov controlled.

Anyone smart enough to divert money should be smart enough to open their own savings/IRA/401k account. You can ALREADY do this.

So, meh, I haven't seen enough yet.

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Guest Remo Williams

Cool it Cc, or stay out of this topic. If I have to delete another one of your posts you won't have a choice.

[ 04-09-2005, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: Remo Williams ]

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Ok...what did I do wrong?

I am somewhat confused....

Jag is 'more' than capable of defending himself.

Err.....trying to figure it.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cc:

quote:

As I said, MOST companies stock are based on the REAL assets of the company, as well as the dividends payed.

Actually,and I just triple checked,you didn't say 'MOST' and you didn't say 'REAL'.

Talk about con jobs....


Do I have to get so specific with you that I have to spell it out completely?

Are you 9 years old? Because that is what I have to do with my daughter.

If you are an actual adult, I should not have to spell it out to such a point that I am giving stockmarket 101 to you.

If you don't know what the stock market is or how it works, go and do a little studying, because I am making close to a 10% return on my investments.

MUCH better then Social Security could ever do, then again, I am also divested in hard assets, such as gold and silver.

If you want to learn about the stock market, go and learn, but do not expect me to walk you through it. If you don't know enough to understand what I just said, then perhaps you need to move to a thread that you will understand?

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Now now Gentlemen,

Not everyone knows about these things because They Don't :

  1. have the resources to find the information
  2. have The expertise to locate and assimilate the information
  3. Have the time needed to perform a study

This debate, like so many others around here, is falling into the negative due to snide behavior.

I'm guilty of it too and I apologize profusely.

It's like this, and I'm sure everyone of us has run into this....

You're working at a job with other people.

One of your coworkers discovers a mistake.

Instead of just fixing the mistake they make it a point to run and tell the boss, usually graphically fingering the coworker that screwed up.

I always made it a point to quietly repair the damage and educate the coworker on their mistake.

It's always better to illuminate others if they don't possess the knowledge that we retain.

Each of us has had our share of snide instructors that we swore we wouldn't be like.

Why be one now?

With age comes knowledge and with knowledge comes wisdom.

But that gives noone the right to be a wiseass.

Think about it

Oh, and thank you Cmdr Chavik for the link on Ponzi Schemes. Very educational. Now that I think about it. Social Security IS a Ponzi Scheme and everyone was FORCED to buy into it.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by El Che:

don't say anything that remo or jaguar will take as negative or they will have you banned

For your information smart guy he had a post removed for name calling. Which was the same reason I temp banned you for. It has nothing to do with stating your opinion.

If you want to keep sticking your nose in how I administer these forum with your false smartass comments you will be banned again permanantly. So go ahead and post some more of your verbal garbage El Che.

If I banned people for having an opinion different than mine then don't you think I would have banned Nomad who has a totally different view of world events than I do. So give it a break I will not warn you about this crap again.

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  • 3 weeks later...

quote:

Originally posted by Wolferz:

Oh, and thank you Cmdr Chavik for the link on Ponzi Schemes. Very educational. Now that I think about it. Social Security IS a Ponzi Scheme and everyone was FORCED to buy into it.

Thank you. I would argue that a TRUE Ponzi is one with intent to defraud and the wikipedia article is mostly correct when it states that SS is not Ponzi because we all know what it is.

Did anyone watch the speech President Bush gave tonight? He said a lot of the right things to satisfy me.

Nest egg that you can bequeath = good. I said this above.

Performance equal to or better than current system = good.

Work hard all your life you won't retire into poverty = good.

Yeah this is one of my major sticking points. We need doctors and we need sewer diggers. Your fecal matter has to go somewhere. Why should a doctor (who does good in in society but generally gets rewarded very well) be any different than a sewer digger (who does equal good for society just not as glamorous) ? Really? So that part was good.

There may be a tidbit more but they went off on Iraq and energy policy in the news conference part.

Let's just say I'm interested.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Yeah this is one of my major sticking points. We need doctors and we need sewer diggers. Your fecal matter has to go somewhere. Why should a doctor (who does good in in society but generally gets rewarded very well) be any different than a sewer digger (who does equal good for society just not as glamorous) ? Really? So that part was good.

LOL! Yes it would be nasty to not have either one of those professions around, as far as being good? Well that would be the one that didn't smell like fecal material if he dropped by your house right after work.

Didn't catch Bush on TV tonight, but I don't usually watch TV and especially not the president.

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Chavik:

Did anyone watch the speech President Bush gave tonight? He said a lot of the right things to satisfy me.

Nest egg that you can bequeath = good. I said this above.

Performance equal to or
better than
current system = good.

Work hard all your life you won't retire into poverty = good.


I didn't catch it but if you think they will protect your funds so you can bequeath them you're a fool. The politico just cannot keep their hands off our money. You can bet they will find ways to tax it or otherwise swindle the recipients out of the money. Not much of a stretch to imagine that they'd penalize the funds for being withdrawn, then they'd tax the recipient treating it as income.

SS can be fixed, but we can't trust the gov't to keep their hands off of it no matter what scheme they come up with.

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