John Prezioso Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 quote:Yes, simple. Would you accept the same methodology in handling poor US neighborhoods plagued by crime, drug traffic and gang wars ? After all, in these places the local residents also know approximatively who does what... No ?Clearly the obvious has passed you by... We are not at war with gangs and poor people in the U.S. While I have much respect for you, Nomad, I am glad that someone like you is not in a position to make tough decisions that affect Israel. There are negatives to be considered in every course of action a nation can take, and in wartime such negatives are amplified tenfold. The cost of INACTION, however, is orders of magnitude greater when you are in a war for your very existence. I have been to Israel, and while I was there, what made a profound impression on me is how integral a part of Israeli society Arabs are. If the Israeli's were dead set on eliminating the Arabs indiscriminately, why would they incorporate them so into their everyday lives? Your assertion that Israel NEEDS them is a possibility, but the point is, Arabs who make no trouble for Israel are completely left alone. Israel is tough enough to answer Palestinian violence with violence; it boggles my mind that people can take issue with a nation actually being strong enough to answer agression in kind. As long as innocent Arabs (and for the hundredth time, I do in fact know they exist) are not the specific targets of such Israeli attacks, there is no moral equivalency whatsoever. Collateral damage is a sad but unavoidable fact in war. I hate it, but there it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Prezioso Posted August 26, 2005 Report Share Posted August 26, 2005 quote:What does the PA/Fateh/Hamas/Islamic Jihad/Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade/Hizbollah/Tanzim and all the other para-military organizations do ? What is their responsiblity to the civilians in Israel and the PA occupied territories ? Or is it a double standard ? Pals. can do anything they want and only Israel is up for criticism ? Palestinian civilian casualties are a CONSEQUENCE of the actions taken by the Palestinian government and para-military terrorist organizations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sckid1108 Posted August 27, 2005 Report Share Posted August 27, 2005 That's nice about the UN, Israel doesn't respect, the USA doesn't respect, No Arab countries respect them. OK WHO DOES RESPECT UN LAW ? But more to the point... Please respond to the points brought up though ? What is Israel to DO ? What is the PA to DO? I mean actions, not words. Specifically, How many terror organizations has Machmud Abbas dismantled as of today ? What compromises is Abbas prepared to make that are backed up by action ? As for disengagement Hamas just couldn't wait to start shooting rockets. http://www.israelnn.com/news.php3?id=88677 As to your famed disengagement majority: 1) Why no referendum ? The majority wanted that. 2) How do you explain mass rallies in Tel-Aviv & Jerusalem that DWARFED the PeaceNow Niks in the 80's 3) And how do you explain: A widely publicized weeklong show of support for the disengagement attracted only tens of supporters. The supporters drove in a caravan through Israel, ending in Jerusalem. According to the organizer, there were at most seventy cars involved. http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/6166.htm 4) over 500,000+ protestors showed up in Tel-Aviv, Statistically speaking that is A HUGE SAMPLE for a country like Israel. and last... 5) Yedioth Ahronoth polls are shown to be heavily biased and incorrect. Polls: Media Biased and Unfair 15:43 Jul 21, '05 / 14 Tammuz 5765 By Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu Almost half of Israelis blame the media for unfair reporting and bias in favor of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, according to a new poll. Support for the expulsion plan has dropped to 48 percent. The survey was conducted earlier this week by Drs. Yariv Tzafati and Yoram Perry of the Herzog Institute. They said results also showed that most Israelis do not think that a unilateral withdrawal from Gaza and northern Samaria will bring peace and may not bring less terror. Support for expulsion plan has been based on feelings that the government has not choice but to carry it out, the pollsters added. Israeli media incite tension in Israeli society, according to 75 per cent of the respondents. Forty-six percent are not satisfied with the media coverage of the issue, partly because they think the media report "illogically" and have taken a position in favor of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon. Backing the unilateral withdrawal are only 48 percent of Israelis while opposition remains steady at 38 percent after climbing from 33 percent several months ago. Support has fallen dramatically from two-thirds to approximately 50 percent except for a temporary rise after anti-Sharon demonstrations that blocked traffic. More than half of the respondents think that the disengagement plan will heighten tensions in Israeli society, while 43 percent expect more terror and only 25 percent expect less terror following the proposed withdrawal. A substantial majority of 65 percent replied that most of the Jewish residents in Gaza moved there as pioneers and Zionists, but 57 percent of the respondents also agreed that in retrospect, Jewish communities should not have been established in Gaza. ---- And for more fun: http://www.theraphi.com/ppe/iibsobipm.html --- Points have been made. I haven't seen any real rebutal of the facts I've presented in my previous posts about some of the reality in the Holy Land. So I think the case is pretty much closed. To Close and Shabbat Shalom, from Charles Krauthammer: "What follows is the world saying, almost in unison, that the Gaza evacuation is just the beginning of a total Israeli retreat, one Dunkirk to be followed by many more. What follows is Condoleezza Rice declaring that "it cannot be Gaza only," a thrilling encouragement to the Palestinians jeering the Israeli withdrawal with chants of "Gaza today, Jerusalem tomorrow." Is this what the Bush administration wants? More unilateral concessions to an implacable enemy whose "moderate" leader, Mahmoud Abbas, declares that "we will not rest until they leave from all our land" -- when Palestinian maps show "our land" as nothing less than all of British Palestine with Israel totally eradicated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sckid1108 Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 Israel can have Jerusalem as its capital. If other countries don't like then that is their perogative. The Pals don't care a whit about where Israel decides it can have it's borders they want the whole falafel and will stop at nothing until they get it. Take it up with them first. But you basically evaded every single question I brought up. At this point the debate is closed I guess. Onto China.... http://www.3000ad.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?u...c;f=34;t=000626 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfheart Posted August 28, 2005 Report Share Posted August 28, 2005 Here are some interesting articles that also has answers to some of your questions: The Myth and the Math Give the Man a Chance Now ItÔÇÖs IsraelÔÇÖs Turn to Prove Partnership I would recommend people to visit this site for some interesting articles from both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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