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ROFL, same old same old Nomad. Can't come back with a coherent logical argument for re-destribution of wealth. Can't say anything constructive when I ask: "What makes you feel that you are entitled to my money?" or "What's the difference between the governement statement of "Your money or our jails" and a broke leech pointing a gun and saying "your wallet or your life". Same conclusion, the wealth goes (by force) from those who make it, to those who do not. In case one, it gets there with more waste, in case two, you can at least refuse and fight for what is righfully yours."

And what happened to points 1 through 4, you are not going to debate those? The only one that caught your eye is 5? And what about France being socialist? You still haven't either admitted your misstake and concurred that it's socialist, nor have you produced any evidence to the contrary, it's on pages 1 and 2 of this thread, go re-read them, because I still have not forgotten your trademark dissapearance when the discussion takes an unfavorable turn, and a reapearance of a dozen posts later like previous posts have no connection to the new ones.

So, you resort to insults. Don't worry, I'll keep ignoring them as I have done in the past. Your opinions are worth just that much as those "smart comments" by the way. Keep it up, you are just embarassing yourself for what comes out of ones mouth shows just that much about him.

"If you saw Atlas, the giant who holds the world on his shoulders, if you saw that he stood, blood running down his chest, his knees buckling, his arms trembling but still trying to hold the world aloft with the last of his strength, and the greater the effort the heavier the world bore down upon his shoulders--what would you tell him to do?"

"I . . . don't know. What . . . could he do? What would you tell him?"

"To shrug."

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_French_urban_riots

"The riots began on Thursday 27 October 2005, and originally in the banlieues of Paris. They peaked on the night of 7 November, affecting 274 communes. On 17 November, the French police declared a return to a normal situation throughout France, saying that the 98 vehicles torched the previous night corresponded to the usual average."

---Ummm...98 per night, AVERAGE for France, so that's 35,770 per year.

http://www.e-nough.hmdnsgroup.com/archives/001134.html

---This one is GREAT. I am still waiting for your answer Nomad. Read the article above, look at the pictures, and dare tell me that France is not socialist. Go ahead, try it.

http://www.canada.com/national/nationalpos...251d0b2e&page=1

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Um, yeah. Lets do compare it to other countries. People who think that in US there's 100 cars burned a night by missunderstood rioters, raise their hand.

And since you want to go that way of comparison.

Lets also compare the population size US/France.

297,726,164 / 63,056,200

Yeah, that would mean in US 500 cars would burn per night due to "missunderstood, disadvantaged youth". While I doubt you will have even 20 cars burned, some of those 20 being idiots burning down their old car for fun (such as for a show jackass), some of them old girlfriend/boyfriend revenge,and some just because of individual vandalism.

[ 11-23-2005, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Soback ]

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The 98 average per day is just due to vandilism in france I would assume (unless your trying to tell me that france has been contiounsly rioting for the past several years) not just due to the "misunderstood and disadvantaged youth" rioting.

I've been trying to search for links on how many cars get torched in the United States but so far I've found nothing on yearly rates.

But I'm glad you did such a scientific survey on how many cars get torched in the US.

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quote:

Originally posted by Aperson:

The 98 average per day is just due to vandilism in france I would assume (unless your trying to tell me that france has been contiounsly rioting for the past several years) not just due to the "misunderstood and disadvantaged youth" rioting.

I've been trying to search for links on how many cars get torched in the United States but so far I've found nothing on yearly rates.

But I'm glad you did such a scientific survey on how many cars get torched in the US.

Maybe there's a reason why you can not find data about how many cars are TORCHED in US, DAILY.

Oh, actually, there were cars torched in US. It was a couple of years ago, some Hummers were torched by enviro-mentals at the dealership. That earned national news. So I am sure if there were 50 cars torched in US daily, let alone 500, we would hear about it.

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Or maybe becuase the goverment dosn't track such stats and puts it under vandilism or arson instead.

You probably wouldn't actually. Common occurances (which, if 50 cars were torched daily, would be) don't get as much news as uncommon ones. Case in point on how often you hear about say, a murder, opposed to how often you get more than an obituary about a car crash.

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So what if Europe gonna burn again? So what if we take in muslims and people who think in diverse ways? At least we trying to bring people together, while you americans fear the difference. If we burn, we burn for good cause, while US will remain in history as a neo-nazi state, that will thrive thru weaker.

The problems in France are caused by the inability of their politicians. They cannot level differencies between incomes nor they can get rid of the extreme poverty. For few you yankees(who've been talking in this thread) I would recommend turning your eyes towards your own country. Your politicians allow torturing; CIA planes carry prisoners into the countries where torturing is allowed, or at least common. Almost everyone there has a gun because they fear their neighbour who might have different skin color(and a gun). There are A LOT of political prisoners in US(how sick is that, in the country of free?).

I wonder what is wrong in socialism? What is wrong in people helping each other out? It might be that mankind isnt ready for such advanced thinking. There are still too many people thinking only their own wellfare.

I bet many of you know Maslow's hierarchy of needs; it can be compared aswell to the group of people as well as to individual. First there are the basic needs, like having shelter, food and etc.. Then there comes higher needs like social interaction, arts and selfpresentation and so on. Apparently some people can't ever ascend over the basic needs, even though they are well satisfied.

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ROFL, same old same old Nomad. Can't come back with a coherent logical argument for re-destribution of wealth. Can't say anything constructive when I ask: "What makes you feel that you are entitled to my money?"

I can tell you why others in society are entitled to your wallet. It's because your wealth is made possible by the society around you. You see, there are infrastructure and institutions like schools, hospitals, police, fire department and etc, that allows you develope or "repair" yourself if needed. There are lawenforcement to keep up the society agreement, there are this there are that. Everything is there for you, and you wonder why others are entitled to your money?

If you are suddenly placed into different society wihtout any connections or institutions backing you up. How good are your chances to make yourself a wealth? They are not good, I believe. And thinking this way, it ain't hard to tell why imigrants in France were rioting. They live in almost connectionless context.

I know, you gonna say: "but I pay taxes". But you dont want ppl to have social security system. What about then when you have enough those outside the system? You gonna have France.

The slightly socialist system that we have in nordic coutries is working well and there is definately no sign of crumbling. In Finland, where I am from, the voting percentage in govermental elections is decreasing because of the general satisfactionary of people. They have nothing to complain, since the system works pretty well.

Actually they are setting pressure from European Union towards the nordic wellfare model and most of the citizens are very conserned about that. They fear that the pure capitalist thinking is pushing thru and the social system might be history in future.

That would be sad.

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Volio. You alright? Seriously.

" If we burn, we burn for good cause, while US will remain in history as a neo-nazi state, that will thrive thru weaker."

---You can burn all you want. You know what you will be remembered for? NOTHING. As far as US a neo-nazi state, LOL, how about you being a good liberal and go campaign your government on claims that US is voilating human rights, is a neo-nazi state and cease all relations with us, and I mean ALL.

"The problems in France are caused by the inability of their politicians. They cannot level differencies between incomes nor they can get rid of the extreme poverty. "

---It is NOT the politicians job to leve the differences between incomes. How can you level the difference between an income of 0 and an income of 30,000? ROFL, yeah, I know how, take it away from the working guy. As far as getting rid of poverty. That is NOT their job either. It is the job of the person who wants a better life, to go find work, open a bussiness, and better his life for HIMSELF, not sit back and complain that he is in poverty.

" Almost everyone there has a gun because they fear their neighbour who might have different skin color(and a gun)."

---You must have seen a little too many westerns. Do you know about Europe, there's a little country there called the Swiss. Their gun ownership is unsurpassed even by US.

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3b7f78c351b6.htm

As far as skin color goes, nobody has been mentioning it, because it wasn't an issue. It seems to be for you however, so:

Learn before you speak.

"There are A LOT of political prisoners in US(how sick is that, in the country of free?)."

---What are their names? What political party do they belong to? Back up your accusations with facts.

"I wonder what is wrong in socialism? What is wrong in people helping each other out?"

---Nothing, UNLESS you FORCE me to help you. That is not help. That is looting, which is a crime. It is a CRIME to take something that does not belong to you, it is a greater crime to take it by force.

"It might be that mankind isnt ready for such advanced thinking. "

---You call taking something that doesn't belong to you advanced thinking? Sorry, hate to break it to you, but NEANDERTHALS practiced that "advanced" thinking. The only advancement the modern man has done to that practice is made it legal.

"There are still too many people thinking only their own wellfare."

---In the next paragraph you mention the Maslows pyramid of needs. Then why are you surprised that people think of themselfs first. After all, if every able man sacrificed himself for every unable man, we would all die out. That alone should be a re-inforcment for thinking about your wellfare before the wellfare of others. Second being a simple fact that MY wellfare I feel on my skin, YOURS should be just that, YOURS to worry about.

"Apparently some people can't ever ascend over the basic needs, even though they are well satisfied."

---Apparently you haven't studied the pyramid and the text accompanying it. For you simply CAN NOT satisfy the higher needs before you satisfy the lower ones.

"I can tell you why others in society are entitled to your wallet. It's because your wealth is made possible by the society around you. "

---That's where you are wrong. Let me disprove it with one statement. If wealth of one was possible because of the society around him, then EVERYONE would be WEALTHY. As we can see that is not the case, which leades to the conclusion that ones wealth is possible because of HIM.

"You see, there are infrastructure and institutions like schools, hospitals, police, fire department and etc, that allows you develope or "repair" yourself if needed. There are lawenforcement to keep up the society agreement, there are this there are that."

---Governemnt infrastructure is paid for in taxes. You can exclude hospitals, they are private property, you are NOT entitled to free healthcare just because you were born. You can exclude public schools too (what am I even talking about, public education, LOL, what a joke, the taxes for schools are collected from property owners, meaning if you own a house you pay regardless of you having kids, if you rent and have 5 kids, their education is free because $0.00 of your taxes goes to your own kids schooling). What SHOULD NOT be included in taxes, is ANY kind of social program NOR any kind of wellfare. I pay for government to run, insure courts, law, safety and roads, NOT food, healthcare, retirement for another. That money could go towards my kids, their education, bettering their and mine lives, ect...after all, you should be earning for your family too, just like I earn for mine.

"Everything is there for you, and you wonder why others are entitled to your money?"

--- You have concluded that since everything that I have paid for with my taxes is there for me. However, you haven't explained as to WHY others are entitled for my money. I have PAID for the infrastructure to be there for me, WHAT makes you think that because I have PAID for the infrastructure to be there I should ALSO PAY for others? Does the meer fact of me having money to pay in taxes means that I also have money that others are entitled to? Haven't I earned that money myself? Haven't I paid for the taxes for the government to run? What makes you think that you are entitled to the money that I have earned? It's not YOUR labor that earned it. Does the condition of being poor entitle you to a paycheck?

"If you are suddenly placed into different society wihtout any connections or institutions backing you up. How good are your chances to make yourself a wealth? They are not good, I believe. And thinking this way, it ain't hard to tell why imigrants in France were rioting. They live in almost connectionless context."

---I HAVE been placed into a society with less than $1000 dollars and no ties or institutions backing me up. I REFUSED government GRANTS for schooling. Everything I have today is because of my mother, her hard work, and ME and MY HARD WORK. Considering what I have today, my own car, my own motorcycle, being a pilot and food on the table, I say I've done ok, and COULD have done better. Which takes us back to the FIRST paragraph. Society is NOT the reason you have things, the reason one manages to achieve is because of his OWN POTENTIAL. Which is proven by a single fact that there are people born in US, into middle class family, and yet turn out complete and utter losers, with nothing to show for their lives but a wellfare check.

"But you dont want ppl to have social security system. What about then when you have enough those outside the system? You gonna have France."

---Do you even know Frances social security system? Do you know that their companies CAN NOT lay off workers? Do you know that you get a paycheck for life regardless if you work or not? Do you know that all you have to do is show up, breathe, and you get a place to live and food to eat. That's a hell of a way to be "outside the system" and have your Maslows pyramid needs taken care of. If they are "outside the system", where does "inside the system" start. When you have governemnt provided 10 acres of land, 3 acre house and a Ferrari?

"The slightly socialist system that we have in nordic coutries is working well and there is definately no sign of crumbling. In Finland, where I am from, the voting percentage in govermental elections is decreasing because of the general satisfactionary of people. They have nothing to complain, since the system works pretty well."

--- Or is the decreasing drop in votig percentage due to the wellfare bums outnumbering the working people. And the trend is showing either them giving up and NOT voting since the bums outvote them every time, OR them moving the hell out of the wellfare country.

[ 11-28-2005, 01:51 PM: Message edited by: Soback ]

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quote:

---You can burn all you want. You know what you will be remembered for? NOTHING. As far as US a neo-nazi state, LOL, how about you being a good liberal and go campaign your government on claims that US is voilating human rights, is a neo-nazi state and cease all relations with us, and I mean ALL.


It is a fact that US is violating human rights. At least goverments of Germany, Sweden and Finland are requesting official explanation from US goverment due the prisoner flights of CIA through european airfields. And what comes in to ceasing all relations to United States, I'm ready for that. In fact, I've stated that in publicity too.

quote:

---You must have seen a little too many westerns. Do you know about Europe, there's a little country there called the Swiss. Their gun ownership is unsurpassed even by US.


Yes, there may be countries with more guns on avarage than US, but M.Moores Bowling for Columbine showed pretty well that there is something wrong with US people and guns. Your northern neighbour, Canada, has quite as many guns in avarage per person, but there are far less gun related crimes.

quote:

---What are their names? What political party do they belong to? Back up your accusations with facts.


For sure there are political prisoners in US, and there are a lot. Here are few for you(http://www.prisonactivist.org/pps+pows/pplist-alpha.shtml). Besides, my wife has a penpal that used to sat in prison for political reasons, his wealth confesticated. And furthermore there are these Guantanamo prisoners, and that reveals the question about human rights again.

quote:

---In the next paragraph you mention the Maslows pyramid of needs. Then why are you surprised that people think of themselfs first. After all, if every able man sacrificed himself for every unable man, we would all die out. That alone should be a re-inforcment for thinking about your wellfare before the wellfare of others. Second being a simple fact that MY wellfare I feel on my skin, YOURS should be just that, YOURS to worry about.


I'm not surprised that people think of themselves. But I wonder why people, that have basic needs well satisfied, aren't willing to share.

quote:

---Apparently you haven't studied the pyramid and the text accompanying it. For you simply CAN NOT satisfy the higher needs before you satisfy the lower ones.


There you are absolutely right; basic needs must be satisfied first. But I was referring on the people that already HAVE basic needs satisfied, yet they cannot feel compassion on those less fortunate. If we all were like those people, mankind would still be small tribes fighting against each others.

quote:

---That's where you are wrong. Let me disprove it with one statement. If wealth of one was possible because of the society around him, then EVERYONE would be WEALTHY. As we can see that is not the case, which leades to the conclusion that ones wealth is possible because of HIM.


Now isn't that circular reasoning? It is not difficult to succeed in modern society and people(at least in here where I live) have quite equal chances to succeed in their life(whatever that may mean), yet some people fail to live up with society. I am not denying the fact that one can make his wealth without society, but surely there are far better chances to that with the support of society.

quote:

---Do you even know Frances social security system? Do you know that their companies CAN NOT lay off workers? Do you know that you get a paycheck for life regardless if you work or not? Do you know that all you have to do is show up, breathe, and you get a place to live and food to eat. That's a hell of a way to be "outside the system" and have your Maslows pyramid needs taken care of. If they are "outside the system", where does "inside the system" start. When you have governemnt provided 10 acres of land, 3 acre house and a Ferrari?


I know something about French social security system. In here we have similiar system. Even the most miserable junkies get their paycheck every month, plus some money they manage to cheat out of system. Yet I'm not complaining and I happily pay their fun. I'm not sure where goes the boundary between inside and outside the system, but when you live in a country and the goverment(and "original" people) refuses to accept you as a part of nation, it certainly raises some displeasement. Why they let you enter the country in a first place? To put you on hard work with low pay that the originales refuse to do?

quote:

---I HAVE been placed into a society with less than $1000 dollars and no ties or institutions backing me up. I REFUSED government GRANTS for schooling. Everything I have today is because of my mother, her hard work, and ME and MY HARD WORK. Considering what I have today, my own car, my own motorcycle, being a pilot and food on the table, I say I've done ok, and COULD have done better. Which takes us back to the FIRST paragraph. Society is NOT the reason you have things, the reason one manages to achieve is because of his OWN POTENTIAL. Which is proven by a single fact that there are people born in US, into middle class family, and yet turn out complete and utter losers, with nothing to show for their lives but a wellfare check.


How can you claim that there weren't institutions backing you up? For surely there were law enforcement to quarantee you had equal rights than other people. Unfortunately your refusal for goverment paid education shows in your way of thinking(I'm not saying you're stupid person, for you are not, since you managed to establish a good life for yourself in foreign society. What I mean is that your way of thinking is very egocentristic.).

I'm not denying the fact that middle- or upperclass people may end up complete loser, seen that aswell.

quote:

--- You have concluded that since everything that I have paid for with my taxes is there for me. However, you haven't explained as to WHY others are entitled for my money. I have PAID for the infrastructure to be there for me, WHAT makes you think that because I have PAID for the infrastructure to be there I should ALSO PAY for others? Does the meer fact of me having money to pay in taxes means that I also have money that others are entitled to? Haven't I earned that money myself? Haven't I paid for the taxes for the government to run? What makes you think that you are entitled to the money that I have earned? It's not YOUR labor that earned it. Does the condition of being poor entitle you to a paycheck?


No, I claim that everything is there for you. From the craddle to the grave. When you were born, there were roads and stuff even tho you haven't paid a cent. And that is why the society supports the life of individual. Thats why the society is entitled to even your money.

I agree that the system supports even those, who wont even try to live proper life, but then again it's not always their mistake. They may have different mental disorders, physical limitations etc. In my opinion, we should still help those whom may not even deserve it.

I wonder what your opinion in wellfare social security system would be in case that you'd get seriously sick and your paid healthcare can't cover the expenses of that sickness and your treatment would end?

-v

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You know what Volio. Instead of debating with you, I'll make a simple statement.

It all boils down to YOU. You live your life the way you want, AS LONG as you allow others to live theirs. If you want to give away what you have, be it money, time, labor, skill, knowledge, ect... So be it. However, you have NO RIGHT to force others to comply with your standards oh humanitarism (whatever you want to call it). Those others who DO NOT WISH to give away their wealth, or share it, for WHATEVER reason, have the most basic RIGHT to keep it. Do not make a slave of a free man, if he knows freedom, he will kill and die for it. Paying taxes for basic government functions is one thing, paying personal living expenses for someone else is another. I am NOT your slave, and what I own is my property, and it is up to me to decide what to do with it, NOT you, NOT the government, NOT ANYONE. Collecting taxes/fees and giving it to support social programs, wellfare checks, food stamps, ect... is NOT the function of the government, it is a function of people that wish to DONATE willingly to those in need. Government forcefully taking my money to give it to someone else literally equals to getting mugged. For the choice is jail or payment, just like extorsion.

As far as me being egocentric. Yes, I am. I am egoistic, selfish and have been called "the most egocentric person" they have ment. I take pride in that. That's when I know that my life is trully MINE, and you will NEVER trap me in this guilt that I own someone something. I know perfectly well that what I have achieved is because of my ability and not anyone elses. Part of the reason I gave back the grants from the government, I would NOT have refused them from an individual or corporation offering them of their own free will. The grants from the government were nothing more than stolen money, taken away from those who have worked hard to earn it, just to have it taken away by the leeches and looters.

So, to sum it up. Live your life the way you want to as long as you let others do the same. When you loot from others, force others, demand and take what is not yours, there will eventually come a time when the price for security and freedom in ones living will equal to risking your life to get rid of you, your looters and your demands, to get ones freedom back by force. It is writen in Declaration of Independence and that statement is true today as it was over 200 years ago. Everything has it's price, make sure you are willing to pay it when the time comes. Leave me be, I'll leave you be, steal from me, I'll take whats mine back PLUS interest.

And you are still missing the point. People are not born into slavery. So when one is born, he does NOT own you their life just because you build a road from here to there, or a park that he will use. During the course of his life, if he wishes to use that road, he will have to pay for it through taxes and if he uses that park he will pay with fees. A person starts off with a clean slate. Don't you EVER claim that a person is born with shackles around their ankles. However, because of people like you, the society makes us slaves to all the sickest, poorest, laziest, dumbest, the criminals, the looters, and the leeches in this world, only a slave does not get to keep the product of his labors. The sooner you realize it, the faster you will have your life back.

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quote:

And you are still missing the point. People are not born into slavery. So when one is born, he does NOT own you their life just because you build a road from here to there, or a park that he will use. During the course of his life, if he wishes to use that road, he will have to pay for it through taxes and if he uses that park he will pay with fees. A person starts off with a clean slate. Don't you EVER claim that a person is born with shackles around their ankles. However, because of people like you, the society makes us slaves to all the sickest, poorest, laziest, dumbest, the criminals, the looters, and the leeches in this world, only a slave does not get to keep the product of his labors. The sooner you realize it, the faster you will have your life back.


You're wrong. First of all, most people┬┤s parents require your part in completing the work load since they have supported you for so long. Same way does the society.

But you are also right. No man should be born in slavery. And thats why they are free(well in most cases they are free) to leave the society they don't feel to fit in.

Anyway, point of my arguing were partly towards the people claiming here that socialism won't work. It works here in Finland. We don't take in lot of 'leeches' coming abroad. We have very small amount of imigrants here. Despite the fact we have our own leeches, hight taxation etc, most of Finns are still willing to stay and work for the society as a whole.

There might be reason for that tho. We have always been a small nation between two giants(well, Sweden ain't giant anymore, but it was quite an empire few centuries back). Russia tried to invade our land not longer than 70 years ago and since there, it's pressing presence was always there, untill the most recent years. We are used to stick together. That MAY be the reason why we want to support even the leeches, that they are available in the time of need.

I'm not saying that everyone should live in the way I do. In your case, you must be happy you live in US and not in Finland.

Cheers, 'twas nice talking to you anyway.

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

I am just in shock. I am unable to even post a coherent reply for lack of knowing where to even start. I don't think I've seen a string of posts so riddled with garbage in a LOOOONG time.

If I send some money, do you promise to spend it on a clue?

Volio must be in his teens....

Has to be, Lord, I hope that no sane adult actually thinks like this...

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I kinda like the permanity of the written things in internet. It will show well the 'maturity' of the writers to the people that are later reading what have been said.

Worst thing one could possibly do to embrassing oneself in conversation is to start picking on the 'maturity' of other people's posts when cannot come up with better arguments.

Socialism has it setbacks as does other political systems, but in my opinion greater good for all can be achieved only through co-operation and support of all people, not by competition and capitalism.

In europe we still have right to show our opinion, and we have freedom of speech. And you speak so plausible about french riots and start mocking the system, while not long ago after Katrina(and other) hurricanes people in US started act fun ways. While they could've helped each others out more, they instead looted, acted violently and tried to get all the safety and comformity for themselves.

-v

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quote:

Originally posted by Voli0:

I kinda like the permanity of the written things in internet. It will show well the 'maturity' of the writers to the people that are later reading what have been said.

Worst thing one could possibly do to embrassing oneself in conversation is to start picking on the 'maturity' of other people's posts when cannot come up with better arguments.

Socialism has it setbacks as does other political systems, but in my opinion greater good for all can be achieved only through co-operation and support of all people, not by competition and capitalism.

In europe we still have right to show our opinion, and we have freedom of speech. And you speak so plausible about french riots and start mocking the system, while not long ago after Katrina(and other) hurricanes people in US started act fun ways. While they could've helped each others out more, they instead looted, acted violently and tried to get all the safety and comformity for themselves.

-v

Wow, look at this guy....

Well, a MINORITY of them were looting etc, a good majority had left town, as they were told to, and the others that did not have to evacuate in Katrinas path, banded together to protect their belongings and each other, WITHOUT government help.

The ones that were looting, the ones that were rioting, were ALL within the cities, and 90% OR MORE, were on government assistance of some sort.

We are INDEPENDENT here, we believe that EVERYONE is capable of making it on their OWN, without GOVERNMENT help.

The government does NOT help, the government is a roadblock to people who wish to be independent, and make money, start business's etc.

The government is NOT designed to take care of people, and has NEVER done a good job of it.

Government redistribution of wealth, just makes sure that everyone is as EQUALLY MISERABLE.

When you grow up, you will figure that out...

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quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

quote:

The thread should on as least as long, shouldn't it?

Umm, that's supposed to be "should GO on".


Got caught up in the heat of the moment, eh Prez?

quote:

co-operation and support of all people, not by competition and capitalism

Unfortantly, co-operation is something that doesn't exist, since people think we live in a "me" society, where only they matter and no one else

The day humanity actually begins to co-operate is the day that tells the world humanity will end soon (like an armageddon)

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quote:

Originally posted by Voli0:

Worst thing one could possibly do to embrassing oneself in conversation is to start picking on the 'maturity' of other people's posts when cannot come up with better arguments.

-v

Actually Volio, THIS is the worst thing one could do to embarass oneself. It should've been a lesson for you, not to blurt things out, especially if you do not know the subject at hand. Kinda like you did there.

Don't make a fool of yourself by saying things like "You owe me because I build that highway/building/tower...before you were born" or "Your parents raised you, so therefore you owe them" or "if you have enought, you should share with others". That's why the comment was made about your maturity. For only three kinds of people could make a claim of ownership on anothers persons property/labor/wealth/knowledge/life. The first would be a young kid who pictures the world banding together and singing koombaya, the second would be a grown man/leech who hasn't achieved for himself and depends on others for his own and his family's living, the third would be a criminal/looter. So you should be thankfull Jaguar placed you in the young kid catergory, for the other two would've been much worse and more embarassing.

Once you grow up, and see that the money taken away from you could go towards getting your kids a better education, better toys, a house with a back yard, an extra vacation for your family, and better living/retirment for you and your wife, you thinking will change.

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