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LostInSpace

France Unrest

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Funny how the poor, the missunderstood and the opressed always want more.

More money money in form of wellfare.

More understanding in form of social benefits and services.

More freedom at the cost of curtailing the freedoms of those who work to support them.

The only initiative your poor take is going out to a rally, protest or riots to demand MORE.

They never take the initiative to better their own lifes, and get off OUR BACKS.

I came to US with LESS THAN 900 DOLLARS. So I don't even want to hear how someone is opressed.

However, what you DID get right, is the opressed in France, but you got the WRONG population denomination. It's not the WELLFARE recepients who are opressed, it's those who HAVE to provide for them. Provide them with free food, free housing, free education, free medical care, free retirement, and free services. The WORKING people are opressed. And at the end of the day, they are the ones who will be picking up the tab for all the destruction, the hurt for all the injuries, and the consequences for all the damages. Your POOR will just go back to their kennels and recieve their usual allotments.

If they expect others to take care of them like people take care of animals (providing them with shelter, feeding them, entertaining them, and giving them medical care, just like we would to our pets), then they behave like animals, well then, when an animal starts attacking it's keepers, it's time for them to be put down like animals.

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quote:

Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

Speaking as one of the so called invisible liberals on this board, I havent responded to any of these threads because I have heard ALL of it before. I think it is nice for you guys to spin this stuff so you can avoid discussing Karl Rove Scooter Libby and the like. It beats discussing Bush's spiraling approval ratings.

You know a lot of you guys call yourselves conservatives, but in truth you are all Fundementalists. You see the world in absolutes, are unable to comprimise, renounce any dissent as unpatriotic,and do your best to destroy a system that promotes liberty by trying to bring about the demise of any opposition party. You guys have a lot in common with the Islamic fundementalist you are always demonizing, you only differ in dogma and tactics. That is really ironic and funny to me.

The riots are simply what riots have always been under many different forms of government; the rage of the poor, uneducated and unrepresented. This is no more a repudiation of Socialism than the riots in in LA were to democracy. Rage reaches a critical mass and the mob mentality took over.

In closing remember a wise man once said " A fanatic is a person who won't change his mind and can't change the subject"

If the shoe fits......

If you read my initial post, I already had that covered:

quote:

Seems it doesn't matter what political system, there are going to be those that are not happy at all.

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quote:

If you go back to that link you provided in your Jordan terror attack thread Fox News and click on the VIDEO tab, you'll see that it's happening (to a small degree) now in germany. Title: Copy cat violence? German police beef up security.

Yeah, I saw that later. Man, where does it end?

Race: what the heck does scooter libby and Bush's poll ratings have to do with this thread? If you want to those to be discussed, start a thread. Don't expect much credibility if you keep making moronic comparisons like the one comparing conservatives to Muslim fanatics, though. That was just stupid. If you have something of value and not just tired liberal rhetoric and demagoguery, I'm all ears.

Nomad: So two weeks of non-stop lawlessness, wanton destruction, and the attacks on innocent people are what you call "quelling riots"? Oy vey.

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quote:

Originally posted by nomad:

It is sad, but I have come to the conclusion that unless the US suffers once something like 30 million casualties on its own soil, most americans will never understand the european allergy to resort to violent methods.


And maybe after sustaining 126,000 casualties during WWI and

405,000 casualties during WWII the US has figured out that sitting on ones waiting for the problem to take care of itself generally isn't the solution...

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And so it has begum in Belgium....

15 cars burned last night by people of the same religion and area that the France rioters are from....

Europe is about to explode.

Yeah, Nomad, that socialist thing works REAL good...ROFLMAO!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Aperson:

Eh? Could just be a phenomenon localised to Europe.

You are in for a big old shock....

Liberalism and socialism have planted the seeds of this, and now those same political views are going to reap the whirlwind of their own creation, too bad the rest of us will get caught up in the nonsense as well.

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quote:

Originally posted by Aperson:

Eh? Could just be a phenomenon localised to Europe.

Eh? Could just be a phenomenon localized to Earth.

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quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

quote:

Originally posted by Aperson:

Eh? Could just be a phenomenon localised to Europe.

Eh? Could just be a phenomenon localized to Earth.


Are you sure about this. Maybe that's why we haven't found life on Mars...

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ROFL, Nomad, you missed Matchoos point by a mile, so the joke's on you.

But since you took it there first. You're right, maybe there is life on Mars, lets hypothise, would that be in WMD biologial form that some previous "un-named, lol" society has developed because the other society that used to inhabit that planet was too lenient in their inspection programs? ROFL, or maybe it's in the form of underground dwellers because they had to escape the massive destruction and torching of their civilization by poor, missunderstood and opressed youngs of their species that have devolved and eventuall died out because the productive element has escaped and moved underground thus cutting off the constant hand outs and letting them have "their own planet". LOL

Catching on to Matchoos point now?

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Oh, and by the way. I still haven't seen neither your consession that France is liberal, or the back up to your statements that it's not. Don't think I will let you make a false claim and then continue on like everything's forgoten.

Maybe if I have time, I will even bring back some of the other threads where you were caught in either skirting the facts or plain out twisting the truth, caught, dissapeared, to re-appear again after half a dozen posts like nothing's happened. Doubtfull though, becaus times a wastin and there's money to be made, and wellfare recepients to support, or they might riot. Good thing I don't live in France and still have my gun.

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Prez,

Fortunately I dont have to seek acceptance from you to validate my point of view. I simply made the point that four pages of posts on this thread and an absence of similar discussion on the obvious Conservo shortcomings, indicated to me a smokescreen.

It is clear that while cosmetically that post was about France, we both know it was just another item in the endless litany of items to discount liberalism. I also refuse to take the bait of referring to my comparison as moronic,as a way to insense me. I will simply point out that my opinion about the New Right and Fundementalism is shared by a former President of the US, Jimmy Carter. I am also sure you will attempt to ridicule him and denounce him due to his failed presidency, but as we already know (according to you guys) No Moron can rise to the highest office in the land.

What happened in France was tragic, but what was more tragic to me was the brazen politicization of it to advance your reactionary views.

Lastly, I love how you continue to see the POOR as a monolithic entity, as if they have a union or something. Good thing I dont think that way, I only think SOME conservatives are flatulent, self rigteuos, gas bags.

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First of all, I do NOT hold myself in such high regard that I think anyone must gain my validation to hold an opinion.

Second of all, if I wish to discount liberalism, I meet it head on; I dont imply or use innuendo. I am confident in my beliefs enough that I don't need to drop hints.

Thirdly, I referred to your comment as moronic because it was. I only pointed that out because such nonsense from you is uncharacteric of your otherwise normally intelligent and rational arguments. If I thought that it was reflective of your overall intelligence I would have said nothing out of courtesy.

And about your last point, you have mis-characterized my stance on the poor. I do not see them as my enemy; they are my brothers. From that perspective, I find it horrible to see how they have allowed themselves to be stripped of their dignity and made into political pawns by liberals. Mine is a version of tough love you might say, but I DO care about them.

If I sound self-righteous, I am sorry. But you might ask yourself why you avoid debates on the intellectual level and instead prefer to sling mud. Whatever you think of other conservatives here, you must know that I maintain respect for all viewpoints and do not respond derisively to rational arguments. Stupid comparisons are another matter, but I do NOT in any way think you are stupid or a moron.

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quote:

Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

Good thing I dont think that way, I only think SOME conservatives are flatulent, self rigteuos, gas bags. [/QB]

But you like me anyway!! LOL

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Jag, I dont think you are a gasbag, I KNOW you are a patriot , just one who differs on how we save the country we both love.Their is great diversity on both the right and the left. There are liberals I love and some I loathe (Tom Daschle)Thier are conservatives I loathe and some I feel great respect and affection for( Dole, McKain) its all relative

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Oh, and just to continue the debate. France is STILL BURNING. On Wednesday (two days ago), 163 cars were torched, as reported, it was the lowest number since the whole riots started. ROFL, they were reporting it in a positive note "Only 163 cars burned, the lowest number of since....blah blah".

Yeah, Nomad is right, the measures of lowering tolerance towards rioters must be working. Only 163 burned during ONE NIGHT, and that's over a week after "lowered tolerance".

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quote:

Originally posted by Race Bannon IV:

... What happened in France was tragic, but what was more tragic to me was the brazen politicization of it to advance your reactionary views. ...

No, what would be even MORE trajic is to ignore what happened in France, Russia and China as some sort of "Anomoly" in the Socialist Agenda. In China's Tienemen Square Incident, the Socialists say that there were just some "Radical" elements that didn't quite "Fit in". In Russia, the Socialist want to say that the only reason it didn't work there was because there wasn't, "Enough Democracy" in the process, as if taking money from me and giving it to the "Poor" is somehow democratic. And now, in France, they say that the reason for all of this is the "Disaffected Youth" that don't feel they are being "Integrated into the Social Fabric" and that's why it's happening there.

This is a CLEAR warning to Socialist Countries. Your Methods don't work! Cutting back the workweek to 35Hrs, to force companies to hire more peole doesn't work. Giving everyone virtually unlimited unemployment benefits doesn't work. Giving the "Poor" unlimited supplies of Food Stamps and Welfare doesn't work. Giving everyone in the country "Free" healthcare doesn't work. Promising rediculous retirement benefits, to the point that people don't have to save to take care of themselves doesn't work. Overburdening the employers with MASSIVE levels of paperwork and regulations doesn't work.

If you give a society something for free, the only thing they will do is expect more and more for free. In addition, since it's "Free" they won't care what the actual costs are, since well, it's "FREE"! The costs will continue to balloon to the point that the benefits will HAVE to be cut back, then when that happens you have RIOTING. In addition, you end up driving the wealth and employers away from your country because it's too expensive to do business with you and so when there are no more jobs, you have MORE RIOTING.

Yes, the REAL tragedy, is that this will most likely be spun and explained away into some sort of "Anomoly" in the Socialist Utopian Dream or Terrorist led Jijad or something, when in truth it's another by-product of a failed Socialist Agenda. They will try and try to get more time, but it won't matter. The Socialists don't know HOW to change, hopefully the people aren't sooooo brainwashed by the current government that they can see through the lies and decide that it's time for them to go.

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quote:

This is a CLEAR warning to Socialist Countries. Your Methods don't work! Cutting back the workweek to 35Hrs, to force companies to hire more peole doesn't work. Giving everyone virtually unlimited unemployment benefits doesn't work. Giving the "Poor" unlimited supplies of Food Stamps and Welfare doesn't work. Giving everyone in the country "Free" healthcare doesn't work. Promising rediculous retirement benefits, to the point that people don't have to save to take care of themselves doesn't work. Overburdening the employers with MASSIVE levels of paperwork and regulations doesn't work.


Then why is it working in Norway and Sweden?

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quote:


Then why is it working in Norway and Sweden?

didn't communism "work" in the USSR until it suddenly collapsed? Sometimes things take longer to bleed out than others.

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quote:

Originally posted by Eclipse:

quote:

Then why is it working in Norway and Sweden?

didn't communism "work" in the USSR until it suddenly collapsed? Sometimes things take longer to bleed out than others.


That arguement could be easily applied to captilism...

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quote:

didn't communism "work" in the USSR until it suddenly collapsed? Sometimes things take longer to bleed out than others.

You can't compare comunismen with the system's we have in Norway and Sweden. We elected how are countries are run, thats called Democracy. You do know what thats is right

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Major newsflash. Socialism destroys the country within 80 years span. It took that long in Russia, so the reason your countries are not fully collapsed yet is because it's only been 50 years or so. However, you are already starting to feel the pressure, with all the un-employment, the huge taxation (not only tax rate, but the things that they tax too), and now the riots in France with the impotence of the government to do anything about it, but also the impotence of the CITIZENS to do anything about it either. So the government can't protect them, and will not allow them to protect themselfs either.

So, basically if not withing this decade then within the next two decades Europe will be what Russia is now.

You all hang tight. Hope your funds help you out when the economy gets so bad that instead of buying wood you can burn money for heat (if anyone here knows history then they know that money were burned for heat in Europe before, they simply weren't worth the paper they were printed on), AND (in Russian it costs HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS to buy some jeans, welcome to post economic collapse and inflation). Who would be better off? European citizens and rioting thugs or US citizens and rioting thugs?

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I agree there is a vast difference between Communism and Socialism. Socialism in my view is only a lesser evil, however.

As for the age of the U.S. - yeah, we are clearly global infants. The strength of Capitalism, the absence of arbitrary government regulation and restriction, is exemplified in how such a young country has become one of the dominant economic powerhouses in the world, in my humble opinion.

quote:

Despite being the richest nation on Earth, the US also displays the most unbalanced distribution of wealth among its population.

Still better than spreading other peoples' hard earned wealth around to those less deserving of it. Hard work and determination are the great equalizers. If only more people in the U.S. realized it, the unbalance would not be so large. Again, in my humble opinion.

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quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

Major newsflash. Socialism destroys the country within 80 years span. It took that long in Russia, so the reason your countries are not fully collapsed yet is because it's only been 50 years or so.

You mean Communism right? Because last I checked Canada has been around for 147 years. In any event, basing how long a country will last on a single countries life span is rather unscientific.

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To Nomad:

1. Comparing Europe to former USSR is like comparing China to North Korea.

2. Communists in Russia swung popular support among the Russian population too. Hence the "Communist Revolution". People supported it, we all saw the results. People in Europe support socialist regimes too, and we all see where that's getting them. We have people coming to US from Europe for flight training because it's pretty much impossible to do it in Europe. They get their FAA issued licences here, and then go to Europe to just take the tests to get the European licences. Guess why they do that? Maybe something to do with you having to pay for ATC use, for every single landing (which can ammount to enormous ammounts during your initial private training when you are learning to land), and excessive regulation. What US should do is impose substantial fees to foreigners looking for flight training (we are already starting to do it, but right now it's nowhere even near substantial) and then see where Europe will get their pilots from.

Another thing I see, is Europeans that come to visit US have in common, is complaining about the taxes. One discussion we had was how in US the richest pay 40+% tax while in Europe the poorest pay about that much and how it's strangling those who work and instead of getting rewarded themselfs, they see their money dissapear. People are waking up, and it's happening at a faster and faster rate, especially as Europe is now talking about raising the retirement age and lowering benefits. How do you think those who have "put into the system" (or rather had their money looted) are going to take it?

Yeah, the people support socialistic ideas. You know which ones? The ones who profit off of them, NOT the ones who have to work and get nothing in return. LOL

3. How much of that unintergrated Hispanic population is here ILLEGALLY and is leeching off of the wellfare, medicare, and government subsidized child support (extra wellfare) payments. So, while in US it's the exception where people grumble and more and more are yelling at the government to close the borders, deport illegals, and abolish the wellfare, we are already seeing progress, like the Minute Man helping border patrol, statutes of limitations on collecting wellfare, and lawsuits for employing illegals, in EU it's however standard procedure to welcome the poor, get them on wellfare and put the burden on the working citizen. Go ahead and try telling us again that US is similar to EU in it's handling of the illegals and benefits given them, I'll just chuckle, because in 5 to 10 years, if we actually fix our problems, you'll see Hispanics arriving on boats at European coast, and we all know how welcome they will be there, you can't turn them away from the great promise of Socialism, where every man can be integrated and be reliant on the government for support. You can't turn them away, We are all equal, right?

4. How many days did the riots in LA last? How much damage was done? How many days did the riots in France last? Oh, sorry, what do I mean last, they are STILL RIOTING, and what do I mean days, I mean, HOW MANY WEEKS HAS IT BEEN, and how much PROPERTY BEEN DESTROYED? Has the government protected the people, like it's SUPPOSED TO UNDER SOCIALISM? My statement stands, Socialistic government is a failure at not only protecting it's own citizens, but also has made it illegal for it's citizens to protect themselfs. All it does is LEECH off of them and puts them out to pasture when the tough gets going.

5. And what exactly is wrong with your theory of " US's unbalanced distrubution of weal"? It's really simple, if you don't make the money, you shouldn't have any. Sounds unbalanced to you? Sounds just right to me. I am not going to justify government taking away my money to give away to the leeches to buy their promisse not to riot and be content with their living conditions. It's up to them to take care of THEMSELFS, it's NOT my responsibility, just like it's not their responsibility to take care of me. So, the government looting the wealth from those who EARN it, and redistributing it to those who do not, just so that they don't riot, is nothing more than just a pay out to blackmailing, leeching scum, and just reafirms my arguments against socialism and how US is heading in that direction. LOL, it's just like the mob used to collect money from bussineses back in the days, "You pay us for your safety". Instead of me seeing a third of my paycheck dissapear for "protection", I'll keep my guns AND my money. Let them riot.

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