Jump to content
3000AD Forums
Sign in to follow this  
Supreme Cmdr

9/11 - Govt. Coverup?

Recommended Posts

quote:


Originally posted by Prez:

quote:

For the love of God, before you start crying about fakes, at the very least, DO the research.

Well, I read the information in it's entirety on the websites you linked to. I was impressed with the extent these people are going to to pull this one off. What other research am I "obligated" to do when I know this is all a bunch of melarchy? Why should I expend the effort on something so silly?


You claimed that the pictures were doctored. They clearly weren't. So that right there is blatantly FALSE because I - like most sensible and rational people - LOOKED at the original footage that was linked to. And the footage was not just CNN. There is footage from ABC, FOX, other foreign media etc. So don't even go down that foolish route about CNN being biased. Thats just rubbish and you KNOW it.

I am also aware of that debunking link and I still don't believe it.

There are always two sides to a story; and somewhere in the middle, lies the truth. Lack of evidence is not evidence of truth. Thats why we have something called - wait for it - reasonable doubt

Even the site you link to above, poses more questions than it answers. Here's one such sample.

quote:


WHERE the Pentagon was hit is strong evidence for official complicity. , since a flight school drop out would not have chosen (nor been able) to fly a plane into the mostly empty sector of the Pentagon. Hani Hanjour, a flight school drop out, clearly could not have performed this extremely difficult flying maneuver. While it is possible that a Saudi or Egyptian air force expert pilot could have been substituted for Mr. Hanjour, a terrorist would not have chosen to hit the Pentagon in the one way that minimized damage and casualties. This fact suggests that 9/11 was an "inside job," arranged by a faction in the US military. Those who are inclined to invent a statistic to explain this surreal "coincidence" should realize that the odds were not one in five -- but virtually impossible (and beyond statistical explanations).


I also found this interesting..

quote:


The "pod" plane claims have not had substantial impact, since they are strange, based on fuzzy pictures and have been clearly refuted by the 9/11 truth movement - the pod is merely a carefully chosen photo of the normal "fairing" bulge between the wing and the fuselage. (It would not be surprising to see "no building" theories as part of this information warfare attack.)


[ 05-01-2006, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

You claimed that the pictures were doctored. They clearly weren't. So that right there is blatantly FALSE because I - like most sensible and rational people - LOOKED at the original footage that was linked to. And the footage was not just CNN. There is footage from ABC, FOX, other foreign media etc. So don't even go down that foolish route about CNN being biased. Thats just rubbish and you KNOW it.


It's funny. I don't remember saying CNN was 'biased'. (That I do in fact believe they are is irrelevant to this discussion) What I DID say is that they would not pass up an opportunity to give the Bush administration a black eye, especially on something so potentionally crippling. It just wouldn't happen.

More to the point, you sidestepped my point about the depth of the cover up. If CNN, Fox, et. al. all have this footage, with your sinister alien pod, then why is it only a bunch of amateur sites set up by non-journalist types reporting it as truth, or even a possibility? There's simply no way in God's green earth ANY of them (Fox News included) would pass on this story if it passed even the loosest litmus tests for any modicum of reality.

You are right - the website I posted DOES raise questions - but not the nonsensical ones of missing planes, government coverups, alien abductions, etc. The day I believe government (either Democrat OR Republican run) is 100% up front about anything is the day I can be sold some oceanfront property in Arizona.

What I find most fascinating about all of this is that human nature being as it is, we all will adamantly deny the more reasonable explanations for discrepancies as impossible while insisting on the probability of the fantastical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What really kills me is that people are giving the government so much credit. I was a government employee for 9 years. I simply cannot buy that a government that couldn't even set up my direct deposit for my bi-monthly paycheck correctly could orchestrate such an intricate plan and masterful cover-up! When has the government shown enough competency to even run the country, much less pull something this massive off? Anybody looked into the FAA lately? They're government run. Think about what you guys are suggesting!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, we're suggesting that the govt. - while incompetent for the most part - is corrupt. uhm, what was the argument again?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LOL! I thought 'government' and 'corruption' were redundant?

Seriously, I don't know the Bush Administration people well enough to know if they're vile enough to do something like this (but I kinda doubt it), but I'm pretty sure they aren't smart enough.

Look, I voted for Bush twice, mostly on the lesser of two evils principle, but I am under no illusions that we are dealling with rocket scientists here!

You are probably familar with this one, but in case you aren't you should read it.

LINK

I would suggest you pay special attention to the section on the test of a plane flown into a wall, and the results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did SC's link from the previous post work for anyone? I'm getting the ads and the header but the rest of the page is blank.

Thanks for the help with the broken link, Kal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's interesting stuff. Let me tell you the first hand account of an eyewitness at the WTC that day. It might shed some light on the accounts given by some people referred to on that site.

My father said that the mood in the building (he was not in the first tower hit) was mostly of stunned silence but relative calm. The announcement passed through rather calmly that the buildings immediately surrounding the one burning tower were to be evacuated. After he was outside for a few minutes, at the base of the WTC towers, the second plane hit.

People not already aware then began to realize in large quantities that this was not just a horrible accident, and panic started to set in rather rapidly. After hearing the sound of the jumpers hitting the ground 6 or 7 times, sheer terror began taking over the group my dad was in. (I can imagine). Minutes after the second plane hit, my father says an F-15 (he's no aviation expert but he thinks that what it was) flying so low that he was amazed it didn't hit another building swooped over at ridiculous speed. In his opinion, and I would tend to agree, this jet was scrambled on an intercept mission - to destroy the second plane. Once its trajectory was clear, the plane must have been scrambled to do just that. My father said it then flew up and away, but stayed in sight for a while longer. (He stopped tracking it once the first tower collapsed, for obvious reasons).

The point is, if you were the president, and you knew that a plane loaded full of innocents was going to be used as a guided fuel bomb to potentially murder tens of thousands of people, what would you do? What could you do?

Suppose a jet DID shoot down Flight 93. What else could have been done? To quote everyone's favorite Vulcan, the needs of the many will ALWAYS outweigh the needs of the few. The death of the people on the plane, while horrible, would save the lives of hundreds if not thousands of people.

At any rate, if the worst thing the government is covering up is that 93 was shot down instead of put down, I can live with that. What good would it do for the families to know the truth, as opposed to the harm it would surely do?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

Seriously, I don't know the Bush Administration people well enough to know if they're vile enough to do something like this (but I kinda doubt it), but I'm pretty sure they aren't smart enough.


Definately they weren't clever enough to cover it all up. Yet many from U.S administration studied in Yale I think.

-v

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I read and do research (I'm on a mini-vacation due to my recent move), the more I'm convinced of the following:

  1. Planes were hijacked. That much is pretty obvious.
  2. One plane did crash into the Pentagon.
  3. United 93 never crashed into a field. It was shot down in mid-air.
  4. Two planes did in fact crash into the WTC towers. My thoughts on the guided missile theory are still up in the air.
  5. WTC build #7, like the other two towers, was brought down by a controlled demolition.
  6. A foreign group of agents (The Mosad?) had a part to play in 9/11
  7. Someone is missing a helluva lotta gold bullions from WTC #7. Considering that the trucks with the gold were abandoned a short distance from the building, leads me to believe that like some, they had advance warning of the attacks. There is no way that they could have been moving all that gold after the first place hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I'm concerned about is the timing of all this. We've had this information on hand now for almost five years, and internet conspiracy theorists have been doing their thing for just as long. But now, seemingly out of nowhere, it's starting to gain a lot of momentum. Why now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest $iLk

In regard to the vaporization issue, I do have pictures of a plane slamming into a concrete wall and basically is vaporized.

Most crash landings are somewhat controlled so that the plane is still together or in just a few pieces... someone intentionally hitting something would have a much more drastic effect.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

originally posted by Supreme Cmdr

6. A foreign group of agents (The Mosad?) had a part to play in 9/11


Might've been Mossad. This is interesting. Then again, they might've been just happy when they realized how good it was for israel.

More about dancing isrealis.

Anyone knows if those few "hijackers" are really alive? Its strange that no arabs were on passenger lists in those flights which hit WTC.

-v

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Originally posted by $iLk:

In regard to the vaporization issue, I do have pictures of a plane slamming into a concrete wall and basically is vaporized.

Most crash landings are somewhat controlled so that the plane is still together or in just a few pieces... someone intentionally hitting something would have a much more drastic effect.


Strange that a landing gear would penetrate through several reinforced walls as in pentagon case, yet other parts of the plane vaporized.

Then those flight manouver that the pilot had to make to hit that wall were unbelievable. Somehow I think that B7-series would've done more damage.

quote:

Originally posted by DeepFreeze:

What I'm concerned about is the timing of all this. We've had this information on hand now for almost five years, and internet conspiracy theorists have been doing their thing for just as long. But now, seemingly out of nowhere, it's starting to gain a lot of momentum. Why now?


Better late than never

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The whole thing smells of coverup and I'm sure that when it all comes to light, we're going to be hearing some crap about it being for the good of the people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nothing is going to come to light. This is going to die a slow quiet death and people years from now will distance themselves from ever having bought into yet another silly conspiracy.

Like Clinton's Meena Arkansas Drug ring, and Vince Foster's suicide/murder. And the Michigan Militia's claim that the U.S. Gov't has weather control equipment and uses it regularly to wipe out large swathes of plains folk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:


Originally posted by Prez:

Nothing is going to come to light. This is going to die a slow quiet death and people years from now will distance themselves from ever having bought into yet another silly conspiracy.


Famous last words. We'll just have to wait and see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest $iLk

There are two sides; one of which is the many "false-flag" operations which have occurred in our past, or were planned.

An invasion of Cuba was discussed during the 60's, as was using a missile to shoot down a commercial airliner near Cuba to justify said invasion.

Pearl Harbor, there is evidence that FDR knew that the Japanese were going to attack but he allowed it to happen in order to gain the political capital to join the war with Britain.

Then on the other side - I believe that 9/11 was just capitalized on in order to justify support for PNAC policies in the Middle East.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

quote:

Off topic: It is widely acknowledged that this wasn't a murder. Even Starr says so.


You are correct. You either missed my point, or I didn't make it well enough. I probably should have put 'murder' in quotes.

To reiterate, I was alluding to how it was "definitely" a murder made to LOOK like a suicide according to right wing extremist groups, fake note and all. The "evidence" was supposedly irrefutable. Yeah, right. I bought into it for a while, but not any more.

My point was everyone buying into this 9/11 conspiracy silliness will feel as silly as I do for ever giving any of that Vince Foster conspiracy junk any credence.

quote:

POSTED BY SILK Then on the other side - I believe that 9/11 was just capitalized on in order to justify support for PNAC policies in the Middle East.

In essence, I think we agree on that. I just don't see that being as heinous as you do. I happen to agree with the ideology of PNAC, though I'm sure that will make me an evil bastard.

That would be a good topic, but probably not in this thread, as it is sort of off topic. Or maybe not, if the 9/11 conspiracy "pod people" think that 9/11 was staged exactly for the purpose of implementing PNAC policies, I guess it's all relevant.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest $iLk

quote:

Originally posted by Prez:

quote:

POSTED BY SILK Then on the other side - I believe that 9/11 was just capitalized on in order to justify support for PNAC policies in the Middle East.

In essence, I think we agree on that. I just don't see that being as heinous as you do. I happen to agree with the ideology of PNAC, though I'm sure that will make me an evil bastard.

That would be a good topic, but probably not in this thread, as it is sort of off topic. Or maybe not, if the 9/11 conspiracy "pod people" think that 9/11 was staged exactly for the purpose of implementing PNAC policies, I guess it's all relevant.


Well as long as you're honest about what you support. We have a different view along those lines. I think that while we may be advancing the United States of Americas interests in our campaigns in the Middle East (I don't think so but just assuming) - to do so under a pretense of bettering the lives of those in the Middle East is dishonest.

No one is going to say 'thanks for the freedom!' when half their family becomes 'collateral damage'.

If Iraq hadn't been floating on a sea of oil we wouldn't have paid it much mind. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that - with a finite resource, having control over it in the new world of rising Chinese pre-eminence in Asia makes strategic sense.

Shame on us for not looking into better ways of fueling our economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×