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Spindoktor

X2: The Threat gold

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Precisely, IL2 is great, you know how many times I've played with the cockpit view on, once, for about 15 mins, and every time I start a new mission, I look at the cockpit for about 10 secs, switch views and off I go. So, while it's nice eye candy, I will so bash the game, just like this one in this case, for not developing easy to use "open cockpit view" with some essential information in the corners. It's damn frustrating to stare at the same tank like interior that fills up half of my screen, limits my view of the outside and is essentially useless.

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Guest rtoolooze

I always use the cockpit view with all my sims. (Falcon 4, IL2 FB, LoMac, SF-P1, WW2 Online, Nascar 2003, ect. ect.) I guess its because I wanna feel like a real pilot who does'nt have the option to turn off cockpit view. Its just an immersive thing for me. To each his own tho, of course.

However, it does'nt bother me one bit that BCM, BCMG, and UC does'nt use cockpits. I'm used to the way it is, and it works well for me. I'm sure I'd use a cockpit view if they were implemented, (Even tho Derek would have to hire out a legion of Angels to help with creating pits for all the vehicals in the game! ) but its not an issue with me. In fact, I'm looking forward to the newest view in UC. It just looks awesome!

Bring on UC! I've already grown weary of this X2 game.

(I will make a confession tho. When playing BF1942, I turn off the cockpit view when flying planes. Hey, when your trying to rack up kills, you need all the help you can get, right?)

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quote:

Originally posted by Grizzle:

Got it, played it and the only thing I got out of it was a desire to play BCMG!!!!(which I did ) Sure, it looks great but it doesn't give me that immersive feeling like BCMG does.

Me too. I was never into space games before, so I don't know about the original Elite and all that, but compared to all the newer stuff I'm seeing like X2 and Freelancer, I'll take BCMG anytime. As for the looks, BCMG looks just fine to me--better and less "busy," even.

One thing I do like is X2's visible cockpit. Notice I didn't say "cockpit view," since I don't really give a rat's patootie about being able to look around the cockpit. I just like having it drawn on the screen so I can feel like I'm in a spacecraft rather than watching a TV screen. That's one thing I regret BCMG not having.

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quote:


Originally posted by mudpuppy:

I just like having it drawn on the screen so I can feel like I'm in a spacecraft rather than watching a TV screen. That's one thing I regret BCMG not having.


Yeah, I regret it too actually. And its my fault actually. Let me explain.

In the first two BC titles (1996, BC3K & 1998 BC3K v2.0), the player only had control of the CC, FC, SH, ATV. That was just four crafts, hence four cockpits.

When I started designing the next title in the series (BC:3020AD, which later became BCM), I decided to implement the one feature that almost all BC players were clamouring for. And that was the ability to fly any craft in the game. Now, if you know anything about the BC games, its that it has a *ton* of controllable assets (and UC adds almost two dozen more!). Well, thinking about this, here are the controllable assets in BCM

code:


27 x cap ships (carrier, cruiser, transport)

24 x fighters

03 x shuttles

04 x close-air-support crafts

07 x vehicles


To do a cockpit for each one (in MAX), then do the programming (because each pit would be different, different screen areas would need to be coded to house the locations of the various systems) would cost close to $100K for the content creation, and about 6-8 months of work in the programming for another $100K or so, depending on how long it takes to do. Then you have to factor in the content creation and programming time. You can't program the new pits, until the content is all done. So you have a period where you can't even use WIP content. In fact, the same thing happened in BCG, whereby the content alone took about 18 months (out of the almost 24 month dev cycle) to do. And during this time, I had to use BCM content as placeholders for BCG specific content which was not yet done and integrated into the game at the time.

Now, it is a niche title and if it sells 100K units, I'd be lucky (previous BC games have sold around this number easily). Now just think, its bad enough having to spend almost $1m and 24 months developing it, why would I want to not only add close to another $250K adding pits, knowing that for that $250K, the game would have to sell almost 35K units in order to recoup that particular expenditure. All for a feature that most users would most likely turn off (using F1) once they get tired of it. Too much work. Too much money. Too much risk for very little (IMO) gain. So I decided not to do it and like several other features, dropped it.

The same thing happened with BCG (now UC).

The somewhat good news is that in January, work begins (in tandem with the WIP XBox game we're working on using the Renderware engine) on the sequel to UC (currently unnamed) and unless the sales of UC are strong enough to warrant implementing pits, I'm still not going to do it.

I have been toying with the idea of doing an add-on to UC and having pits would be one of the features at the top of my list, but the problem with doing add-ons is that considering how many things are in UC, I'm going to be hard pressed to do an add-on with only a few things. Very few people will buy it. Which is what happened with BCM Gold (which was never supposed to be a release btw, that was all DC's idea); because it didn't sell as well as BCM, that tells me that not all BCM gamers bought it. The good news is that it did sell more than enough units to recoup its costs and turn a profit.

So, there you have it. These are the business facts of this business. While gamers are thinking oh, it would be so cool to do this, we [devs/pubs] have to look at it from a financially viable POV. And some games have things that others don't. For example, while X2 has pits and a very strong trading kernel, it would be hard pressed to have a single iota of the high end tech (e.g. AI, planets etc) available in even the BC3K, the very first BC title. So, there you have the choice of sorts: pits or the ability to play on planets, in first person etc etc and the list goes on.

Discuss

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Understood and agree with yours reasons SC, but , it┬┤s possible (or not) make like other games (Flight simulator series), thats give for the users something like a "mod" that alows they make a cockpits or panels and add this to game┬┤s the ships ?.

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quote:

Originally posted by almostpilot:

Understood and agree with yours reasons SC, but , it┬┤s possible (or not) make like other games (Flight simulator series), thats give for the users something like a "mod" that alows they make a cockpits or panels and add this to game┬┤s the ships ?.

Please read above " game┬┤s ships"

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Mmmmh, I also think having 3d cockpits would be very apreciated.It truly gives you the feeling that you are inside that fc/oc.

Could be an option to ONLY implement universal cockpits? In exmpl. one for all Fc┬┤s, one for all SC┬┤s and one for all Cas crafts? No cockpit would be needed for the CC and OC┬┤s cause they are suposed to have a "bridgeviewer" ( wich I assume its something like the big monitor in star trek) because they are mainly closed cockpits where a 3d pit is useless.That would be only 3 pits to do.If at the end we dont care to get used at not having any pit, IMO we will not care to see the same pit for all FC┬┤s and we will enjoy the benefits of having it implented.

This is only an idea for any possible release after UC,im not asking to put them now.

Thats what I think about this.And thankyou SC for being so clear explaining the motives to not do them,not everybody cares that much.

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-----------------

Originally posted by Ghostpilot:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Could be an option to ONLY implement universal cockpits? In exmpl. one for all Fc┬┤s, one for all SC┬┤s and one for all Cas crafts?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ghostpilot, check the archives for past discussions.

-------------------------------------

Oooooops

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quote:

Originally posted by almostpilot:

...it┬┤s possible (or not) make like other games (Flight simulator series), thats give for the users something like a "mod" that alows they make a cockpits or panels and add this to game┬┤s the ships ?.

Combat Flight Sim (version 1) is the best example I can think of. It amazed me how so many talented amateurs managed to professionally mod that one simulation: cockpits, gauges, sounds, aircraft frames, skins, multiplayer improvements, etc. Just a bunch of guys, tinkering away, making changes. It probably even surprised Microsoft.

I don't know how much power exists in GBSIII for modifying Universal Combat but, if cockpits can be added, somebody will probably add them. And the niche for this game will expand accordingly.

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quote:


Originally posted by almostpilot:

Understood and agree with yours reasons SC, but , it┬┤s possible (or not) make like other games (Flight simulator series), thats give for the users something like a "mod" that alows they make a cockpits or panels and add this to game┬┤s the ships ?.


Can't. It means programming in support for the addition of external pits. Thats not as simple as creating a 2D bitmap you know.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Can't. It means programming in support for the addition of external pits. Thats not as simple as creating a 2D bitmap you know.

Ok. Thanks for reply.

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While I will admit flat out that the first version had some bugs that caused CTDs and large save games on certain users computers, the general consensus is that the patch they've just released (version 1.1) has fixed pretty much all those problems. Still a very solid game.

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LOL, I just came back from X2 forums. You can't believe the ammount of people b#@%ing about how there's no planet landings, can't walk around anywhere, getting out of the craft is useless, the combat sucks. LOL, Yet some of the same ones bash on Battlecruiser series with planet landings, where u can invade bases on land, fight on foot, vehicle or fighter, ...ect.. you all know the story. The funniest thing is, I guess there's just no way to keep people happy, if it's not that then it's the other, I was reading and cracking up.

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'GDR

http://www.gamesdomain.com/gdreview/zones/.../dec03/x2.html'

Have to say that review is bollocks.. X2 certainly has weak points but the reviewer misses the point of the whole game.

Saying it takes 12 hours to get into the game is wrong. They even give you 2 ships (one a trader) to get going. I'd bought my own factory within 3 hours of playing and I always go slow in any games.

Then he makes this point;

'Also, the game isn't very well balanced in the beginning. You are allowed to push forward into areas even when lacking the ship needed to survive their denizens.'

Is this guy a scripted mission man, or what?

X2 is obviously out of his league.

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Ok, this is the general X2 wishlist, people are basically saying the things they would like to have been included in X2. Some of the like the systems taking damage and repair control, planet landing ect...

Wishlist

Battlecruiser discussion thread in the same forum

Battlecruiser Series

Another wishlist thread

This one is somewhat different, it's more interesting, as people are talking about how X2 compares to other space sims.

Compare

Couldn't find the old BC against X2 thread. So I did a search. This one is funny, look at second page. LOL< "careful, Derek fans are volitile". LOL, Damn right, u bash our one and only REAL space sim, we'll push back so hard u'll end up on your butt.

LOL

other general stuff

[ 12-21-2003, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Soback ]

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Thanks Soback. Funny stuff indeed.

That one guy said he wanted a foghorn on cap ships. Man, I was laughing so hard.

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DREADA,

Yeah, you only see planetside and interior views in the cutscenes (which are pretty cheesy anyway) Not ingame.

You can eject from the ship into a space suit and fly around inside a space station to some extent (in fact u can do this a your ship too) but that's about it.

I'm having a sort of love/hate relationship with the game at the moment.

Aspects of the empire building and trading are great but I get attacked either by Khaak or pirates every damn 5 minutes.

'One of your factories is under attack'

I have heard this phrase thousands of times!! It's driving me nuts!! The only alternative I have to launching my head through the monitor is to play with the volume off. I finally managed to kill/force a retreat of the attackers and then my current savegame corrupted.. argh!!

It can be deeply satisfying to sail the spacelanes watching your ships plying their trade and bringing you money but it's also infuriating to be constantly attacked all the time. (buy a new ship - other ship gets destroyed - buy another ship - lose another ship.. argh!!)

There appears to be an element of this stuff only showing up where u are. So you can check out a sector.. all seems gloriously quiet and yet, once u purchase a station there, suddendly all manor of unfavourable types appear and suddently it's turkeyshoot alley!

Yet it still has great moments!

I've heard the aspect of constantly being attacked by the khaak was fixed by a patch, but I think u maybe have to start the game again to see the benefit.. not sure I can be arsed doing this, although losing my savegame may make the decision easier.

I can give u a link to a UK shop that imports the game if u want.. let me know.. I've used them for lots of stuff and they are top class.

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quote:

I just hope its not all eye candy and the game still makes for a deeply immersive experience with longevity.

Trust me, X2 is NOT Freelancer's shallow gameplay.

quote:

I know it has the 3D cockpit, but is it only during cutscenes, not gameplay, when you actually see planetside views or interior views (ie. an interior passenger cabin of a large ship was shown in the rolling demo *I'm still waiting for such a game* )??

The 3D cockpit is during gameplay. Any other interiors (stations) are cut scenes.

quote:

And so far, all the space sectors I've been in seem incredibly small! Their like small boxes with some stations and factories in there and you can visualy see all jump gates.

Well you can see most of the jumpgates (unless they are hidden by a nebula) but I wouldn't say the sectors feel small. In fact, I doubt you will be traveling from one side of a sector to the other without speeding up time (SETA device). I use this thing like I use HJ in BCM.

The game is pretty good, IMO. It complements BC/UC quite nicely.

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I forgot to mention that you can fly around the interiors of stations. But the novelty wears off fast because there's no point to it (AFAIK), so instead I just use ESC after docking, which docks you instantly.

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