Red Faction

[Guest $iLk]

Okay, first off - normally I am against Commie propaganda, but should I buy this game?

In other words - I love the multiplayer aspect of the game, but is the full single player game worth playing or should I just play the MP demo till I'm bored and find something else?

[Real_Lucas]

I suggest you read the reviews of this game before you say that it is about "communism". it's actually a sci-fi first person shooter set on mars.

if you want to play a game where you fight commies, play operation flashpoint.

[Guest $iLk]

Not talking bout fighting commies, RED FACTION you are a commie (not really, but the inuendo is there)

RED = Communism

On the back of the box : Join the revolution

The symbol = that of a fist and hammer = commie worker

You are a miner = industry

THE GAME IS ABOUT WORKER REVOLUTION AGAINST THEIR CAPITALIST OPPRESSORS = THE COMPANY YOU MINE FOR.

SICK PROpAGANDA but fun game.

I have had Operation Flashpoint for awhile. OPF = NO COMMIE PROPAGANDA, it is unbiased.

[Menchise]

quote:

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THE GAME IS ABOUT WORKER REVOLUTION AGAINST THEIR CAPITALIST OPPRESSORS = THE

COMPANY YOU MINE FOR.

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What's wrong with that?

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: Menchise ]

[Guest $iLk]

Call me McArthyist.

Warning: The following opinions may, but are not meant to inflame debates. They are as I said opinions and are true to the best of my knowledge. So there!!!!

Communism = Evil

Communism = Anti-American

Communism = Millions murdered by their own government.

Communism = The thing we fought against in the cold war

Communism = Socialism = Liberalism

It's everywhere in our society. This is the first game I've seen that glorifies it, expect many more.

[Põdi]

quote:

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Originally posted by $iLk:

Communism = Socialism = Liberalism

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Uhm, don't you mean:

Communism > Socialism > Liberalism?

And another thing, we actually have a 'Socialist' Prime minister in Tony Blair at the moment, yet he is backing Bush all the way. Hardly the actions of a Communist methinks.

[ 09-23-2001: Message edited by: Paddy Gregory ]

[Menchise]

quote:

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Warning: The following opinions may, but are not meant to inflame debates. They are as I said opinions and are true to the best of my knowledge. So there!!!!

Communism = Evil

Communism = Anti-American

Communism = Millions murdered by their own government.

Communism = The thing we fought against in the cold war

Communism = Socialism = Liberalism

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Hehe. I like debates.

Here are my opinions.

Communism = One type of Socialism

Communism = A society without a state or class divisions

Communism has nothing to do with Liberalism

In other words, the Soviet Union under Stalin and afterwards was not communist.

The Cold War was not about Capitalism versus Socialism or Communism, it was about Enterprise Capitalism versus State Capitalism.

quote:

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And another thing, we actually have a 'Socialist' Prime minister in Tony Blair at the moment, yet he is backing Bush all the way.

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LOL!!! Blair? LMAO!!! A Socialist??? ROTFLMAO!!!

*ahem*

Blair is very anti-socialist.

[Epsilon 5]

hmm.. just to make you understand, communism is NOT "evil", it's those who apply the rules that are...

[Cmdr Nova]

Very true, Ep5.

Back to the original topic, I've heard that it's a good game, played it once myself. Graphics are great, and replayability is okay (this is all based on the PS2 version).

[Guest $iLk]

It says on the box it has a cool "develper level" editor. Which basically means you need to know how to create a 3d game from scratch to work it... WHY EVEN ADVERTISE THAT? Anyway I love multiplay on it - but what about single play?

quote:

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Communism > Socialism > Liberalism?

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I stand corrected and I agree.

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Communism has nothing to do with Liberalism

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The ideas that liberalism expresses seem so Marxist, so instead of saying it has nothing to do with it I would say that it is merely a step along the way, just like Socialism - which is in effect what is in most European countries at the moment, not complete socialism, kind of Democratic Socialism - kind of like what the DNC has tried to turn America into. America is becoming Amerika.

About the USSR being State Capitalism, I can't agree for some reason. I have always seen Capitalism as being a system that rewards outstanding achievement in society and the economy with greater amounts of capital - on an individual level. True it is corporations that make the profits - but you don't see everything divided equally, it is given to those who have (earned raises, earned greater responsibility, etc.)

quote:

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hmm.. just to make you understand, communism is NOT "evil", it's those who apply the rules that are...

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Well Epsilon 5, I say that Communism is well intentions at their worst. Communism cannot co-exist with human nature to abuse power and take shortcuts through life. Communism is a plague of the intellectuals who think "wouldn't it be great if"

Communism is a belief espoused by those who fear outstanding individual achievement not because it isn't fair.

To quote Neal Boortz:

"These are people who hate any economic or political system that allows any individual, though extraordinary hard mental and physical work, to rise above the common denominator. They fear an achievement-oriented society because they know they don't have what it takes to flourish in such a system. They want to see our achievement-oriented, competitive economic system destroyed."

Communism is an idea that leads it's followers to try and place more and more restrictions on the individual and lower our freedoms to the level that we MUST accept communism. Or be liquidated that is.

That explains my position better than my usual joking rhetoric I think.

[Guest]

All hail McArthy...

[Guest $iLk]

quote:

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All hail McArthy...

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Indeed...

[Parias]

Geez people, it's a GAME, not an attempt to start another world war or something

If you've already gone through the PS2 version, then as of this moment, there's not much more to see. The singleplayer game is almost exactly the same, and online multiplayer is little more than a glorified Half-Life with geo-modding. CTF, DM, and TDM are the only modes really available, and the game's multiplayer mode doesn't even support vehicles (you can't even create a multiplayer map with functional vehicles through the map editor, though they work fine in singleplayer). About the only nifty new thing is that the PC version, of course, DOES ship with an editor, and that there are various mods under construction.

If you haven't played the PS2 version, go pick it up for an intersting (albeit quite short) singleplayer experience. But otherwise, there isn't all that much new to see

[Menchise]

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The ideas that liberalism expresses seem so Marxist

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What's so Marxist about 'free' trade, minimal state intervention in the private sector, privatization of health and education? These are all classical liberal and neo-liberal ideas. That Boortz quote is also neo-liberal.

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so instead of saying it has nothing to do with it I would say that it is merely a step along the way, just like Socialism - which is in effect what is in most European countries at the moment, not complete socialism, kind of Democratic Socialism

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Not even close. Many European countries, such as Sweden and Germany, are Social Capitalists (welfare-oriented), but they're gradually moving towards Enterprise Capitalism. Britain is Enterprise Capitalist, just like America (and Australia in a few years).

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About the USSR being State Capitalism, I can't agree for some reason.

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I'll explain why it wasn't communist or socialist. Socialism/Communism aims to bring the means of production under the control of the working class. When Stalin became the leader of Russia, that movement was reversed.

Instead of empowering the working class, he put the means of production under the control of the state (in other words, him), then he used that industrial power to compete with the industrial power of American capitalists. In other words, he was competing in the global market as a state capitalist. Ever wondered why so many communists (Trotsky et al) disagreed with him and subsequently ended up dead? That's why.

[Menchise]

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All hail McArthy...

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Why would anyone want to hail a man who turned America into a police state?

[Guest]

its sarcasm As in, all hail ceasar

[Põdi]

quote:

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Originally posted by $iLk:

It says on the box it has a cool "develper level" editor. Which basically means you need to know how to create a 3d game from scratch to work it... WHY EVEN ADVERTISE THAT? Anyway I love multiplay on it - but what about single play?

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If it's anything like FRED2 which came with Freespace 2 (Also from Volition of course), then it would be pretty simple to use. Even I could make a couple of simple missions, and that is saying something. Considering I know as much about programming as the Taliban do about women's rights.

Can't wait to have play around with GBS II, at least it will help confirm my own ignorance if nothing else.

[Menchise]

quote:

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its sarcasm As in, all hail ceasar

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Oh.

[Guest $iLk]

Menchise, sorry man but I don't know what kind of ideology you are describing,

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What's so Marxist about 'free' trade, minimal state intervention in the private sector, privatization of health and education? These are all classical liberal and neo-liberal ideas. That Boortz quote is also neo-liberal.

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Liberals here in the United States (Tom Daschle and Dick Gephardt are the top two) Do not seek to bring ANYTHING under private control. They know that the more Social programs they create the more votes they can buy from old people and minorities. They are nothing but class warlords and use race, creed, and social status to divide us. They tax the top income earners in order to pay for all their social programs. The bigger government is - the more control they have, and the more money they can tax - the bigger they can make government. They are liberal in the effect that they are making radical changes that have put this country on the dead end course of a welfare state with big brother government watching your every move.

As far as what I mentioned about European countries, you said I wasn't even close then you went and backed me up on being correct

Just used different words to describe the same thing.

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I'll explain why it wasn't communist or socialist. Socialism/Communism aims to bring the means of production under the control of the working class. When Stalin became the leader of Russia, that movement was reversed.

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Um, Socialism brings all production under the control of the "workers" i.e. the government in a Socialist state who is tasked the role of owning the means of production, and allowing no private ownership of anything.

Perhaps Marx's well intentions were never followed, because in every Socialist state - it never evolved into TRUE communism which you are describing. The Communism that we all know and love was not Communism. There will never be a Communism because human nature dictates against it. Human nature to benifit one's self over others will override Communism's benevolent goal of equality. Most of the Communist supporter's that are in the United States, only seek to better themselves while at the same time preaching about how they want to make everything better, and oh if you vote for us then you will get welfare money but if you vote for the REPUBLICANs they will show that they are Nazis and take medicine from old people and make you actually WORK FOR A LIVING.... Oh no!

Anyway, I suppose we can agree that as an idea, Communism is right up there with world peace. I see that humans have done well with both.

Let us agree then that Communism will never work until humanity reaches the next stage of evolution of thought and works to benifit itself as a whole rather than themselves.

As things stand now - it's good to be a Capitalist.

[Menchise]

Hehe. I disagree, but that was bound to happen.

I could start a huge debate about this (as if I haven't already), but I'm in the middle of another one at the moment. Some other time, perhaps.

[Guest $iLk]

Hehe no problem man, any time.

[Kush]

[Warning: Totally off topic!]

I can't wait for BCM multiplayer so that we liberals and socialists can take on you Adam Smith Capitalists Mano a Mano!

[Warning: Back on topic!]

So, the game! How is it? Should I run out there and pick it up, or wait for the patch?

[Scrivener]

Eh, I'd steer clear of Red Faction (PC). While it's good for a console FPS, it's really just BLAH for the PC. Geomod is gimmicky at best, and gets old fast. The gameplay is really nothing special and for a semi-seasoned PC FPS veteran, there's really nothing in Red Faction that another game you've already played hasn't done better. If you want classic FPS joy, try Soldier of Fortune Platinum. If you want the best damn FPS ever made, get Operation Flashpoint. Wait for Red Faction to hit the $10 bagain bin, that's about all it's worth.

[Guest $iLk]

I love the multiplayer rail gun though, and the ability to take shortcuts through walls. I'm just wondering IF the single play is worth it. I can easily stick with the demo.