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Supreme Cmdr

Star Trek Online

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scroll to the top of this page and you will see your equally hilarious response to my last post on page one.

I wonder is CBS just consent to sit down pouring millions into this as they take forever... did star wars take this long?

Its an mmog with a long development, they must be forking out a serious budget, dont ya think?

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Looking at the complete blog about the movement scheeme, the devs do have a point. Very rarely do you see ST ships above say defiant size making dramatic maneuvers, or really utilizing the z-axis.

It's even commented on in Wrath of Kahn...which to be honest is the only instance that comes to mind. Basically almost all movement in ST combat is exactly like what you see in the Armada games, so I have to agree with their choice.

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http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/gameId/...s/display/12546

more laughs, did you see the "screenshot" after 3 years we're proud to present ....

seriously why do paramount allow newbie shits to fuck up their shit all the time? Their franchise, why did they give this i.p to a shithole like P.E to develop????

We're gonna see a NEW star wars MMO before this star trek casual shit. im so pissed :)

I joined eve with the hope to kill time before my dream game came out.

so where is universal combat online?

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I'd be willing to bet that Duke Nukem Forever beats this one out the door.

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The law sute that Perpetual is in now is not making things look any better, but they did move the title to P2 which is part of the sute. LOL

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As I predicted, this one is DOA. Now the IP has apparently changed hands to Cryptic studios whose Marvel Universe Online was recently cancelled by non other than, Microsoft.

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/breaki...nline-Developer

http://www.startrek-online.net/messageboar...ead.php?t=12178

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As I predicted, this one is DOA. Now the IP has apparently changed hands to Cryptic studios whose Marvel Universe Online was recently cancelled by non other than, Microsoft.

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/breaki...nline-Developer

http://www.startrek-online.net/messageboar...ead.php?t=12178

I read this and then searched the net (IGN, Gamespot, etc) and I have found no posts about MUO being cancelled. Where did you hear that?

Basically I don't ever expect to see this in playable form.

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I read this and then searched the net (IGN, Gamespot, etc) and I have found no posts about MUO being cancelled. Where did you hear that?

Basically I don't ever expect to see this in playable form.

Do you know how to use Google? No? OK, try this

type www.google.com

then in the web section, type: marvel universe online cancelled

have fun!

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i saw this yesterday and I was coming to report :)

oh well. but you know what, big **** you to PE and that fraud darron stinnet, and a big fuck you to the ****** at startrek online.net who couldn't see writing on the wall from a game in development over years and 2 screenshots or whatever.

friggin pussies. yes im mad

heres to eve online for another couple years while i await sto

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Its.dead.Jim

This comes as no surprise. I predicted this back in 2004. So color me shocked.

Doing a Star Trek MMO is going to take a lot more than money.

1. It needs talent, which these folks clearly didn't have because its not like they didn't have the money.

2. It needs balls. Serious.brass.balls.

3. Its needs a lead developer/producer who (i) knows the mythos inside/out (ii) is allowed to do his own thing within the confines of the franchise (iii) who can think outside the box (iv) who has/knows the tech to pull it off (e) experience in space, as well as sci-fi games.

4. A publisher/investor with a hands-off approach

This is not about money because the money these fools sunk into this since 2004, could have funded several MMOs and then some.

I can do a Star Trek MMO in under three years, with a skeleton crew and for around $5m. Guaranteed.

Primarily because I have (i) the sci-fi and space game background/experience (ii) the technology (iii) the discipline to stretch every damn dollar on the game instead of pissing it away and coming up with nothing

The *only* way to do a Star Trek MMO is to start with a clean slate and a multiplayer Star Trek game. You use that internally to build on the basis and just start tacking things on.

...but hey, what do I know. Its different when you've been doing space games for nigh on twenty years, then you hear that some n00bs go and piss away millions on a beloved franchise and then end up with nothing to show for it.

I was so excited at the prospects of a good Star Trek game and MMO, that I was rooting for the n00bs, thinking that they hadn't already dipped in the poison well. To the extent that I contacted them in 2004 and offered my consulting (since I had my own games and have no intentions of working for anyone, ever) assistance as well as my seamless space/planetary tech which they could build from. That went nowhere. The rest is history.

The biggest set of brass balls in doing Star Trek is looking at the publisher and flat out telling them that it simply can't be a mass market fodder. Once you get past that, its smooth sailing. Star Trek is about exploration first and foremost. Combat, DS9 and STV notwithstanding is usually a means to an end. That right there, puts it out of the standard MMO fare.

To create an MMO for such a difficult franchise, you need a seamlessly integrated space, planetary, indoor rendering engine with zero loading times. The player needs to be able to move freely around his ship, get into a shuttle, land on a planet, get out, run around in fp mode, get back in the shuttle, go back to space etc. You need transporters for beaming people up/down. You need a kick-ass space/planetary combat engine. The AI has to be over the top and otherworldly because you're going to have to rely on NPCs to crew, for e.g. the Enterprise because having players in those spots will kill the game; especially if you happen to have a griever on board who suddenly decides he no longer wants to piss around in engineering. He wants to fly the ship. You - the capt. says no - he then comes back with a pulse rifle and takes the bridge apart.

...yes, if its beginning to sound a lot like my games, then yeah, I'm a big ST fan and I already have all the tech, experience and know-how. But tech does not a good game make and no matter how good/great a game is, with poor execution - and bad luck/timing - its just going to fail.

There is just no way a team of developers - no matter how good they are - with zero experience with space games, is going to output a good space game, let alone an MMO based on such a franchise.

To wit. The recently canned NCSoft space game, Blackstar, consists of a Whos Who list of developers with space game experience. And they couldn't pull it off.

Just think about this. Not one - but two - space game MMOs canned within the same two week period. Doesn't that tell you something? You can't throw money at something like this. That is simply not the answer.

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I can do a Star Trek MMO in under three years, with a skeleton crew and for around $5m. Guaranteed.

It's unfortunate that they trusted the ST franchise to some noobs, yet you have all this experience,

games and dedication to the genre to show for and yet you didn't get approached.

Do you think it in the realm of possibilities to get involved in such a challenging undertaking, in the ST

universe? The way I see it, as soon as you go into an established universe, you are putting on a straight

jacket where you have to abide by a certain predetermined framework. Would that be acceptable to

you?

Looking forward to the upcoming Star Trek film, there is still a lot of life left in this mature franchise and

with this apparent reboot, there may very well be no end in sight.

This would sure seems like a valid investment, don't you think?

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No. I have no interest in working on other people's IP. And most especially not the Star Trek IP. Why? Because no matter what I do, I will never do enough to please that particularly volatile fan base. A fan base which I'm not close to, nor know anything about. So, I'd be like all over the place. e.g. if I did a Star Trek game, there would be no holodeck. Why? Well because its rubbish, useless and serves no purpose. e.g. I would never let players man different stations in the same ship. Why? Well, think about it.

So, no thanks. I like my life simple and the way it is. And since I'm not motivated by money, it is highly unlikely that I would even accept any such invitation. As a consultant? Yeah, absolutely. But nothing else.

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A fan base which I'm not close to, nor know anything about.

You are being too harsh on yourself, you are part of that fan base too. But you probably do not belong to the other fan base that goes to the conventions and wears ST underwear. Neither do I. :)

Because no matter what I do, I will never do enough to please that particularly volatile fan base.

That's probably unavoidable to anyone who tries. But then, how many really great ST games have been made thus far? I think they can be counted on one hand and considering how long ST games get made, that's not a pretty record.

I would never let players man different stations in the same ship. Why? Well, think about it.

I imagine it's difficult enough to get people to cooperate in games that are far less complicated. Not sure how much fun it would be anyway. ST has a tendency of making mundane tasks look glorious.

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I blame Derek it is all his fault, it was his duty as a st die hard fan, to make cbs let him do star trek online!

:)

good write up none theless SC

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I blame Derek it is all his fault, it was his duty as a st die hard fan, to make cbs let him do star trek online!

:)

I admit I was looking forward to this one, but in the back of my mind I knew it would never happen. I remember early on hearing rumors of you being able to walk about your entire ship and going "Hah haha, hah." because while I think that would be totally awesome, I'm a programmer and I know that to do that would be an incredible feat. Not impossible, but not possible by the developers who were doing it.

Great write up SC! As always, you hit the head on the nail.

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:)

I'm a programmer and I know that to do that would be an incredible feat. Not impossible, but not possible by the developers who were doing it.

Exactly. I already have fp mode working anywhere, including inside ship levels. In my previous games since UC (2003), I've had fps in space and on planets. For what was to be the next BC title, I already had fps inside levels (for ships and stations). I halted it to do GALCOM because I needed a break. In fact, after the third or fourth GALCOM game, incl. the MMO, I'm going to probably do another high-end space game (a new franchise) and fps in stations, bases, buildings, cap ships will be the # priority.

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I believe it's the other way around, you know, with the nail and the head. :lol2:

Doh!

Exactly. I already have fp mode working anywhere, including inside ship levels. In my previous games since UC (2003), I've had fps in space and on planets. For what was to be the next BC title, I already had fps inside levels (for ships and stations). I halted it to do GALCOM because I needed a break. In fact, after the third or fourth GALCOM game, incl. the MMO, I'm going to probably do another high-end space game (a new franchise) and fps in stations, bases, buildings, cap ships will be the # priority.

And you can bet that my butt will be in front of the game store the minute it comes out. I'm curious as to how you were optimizing the in ship FPS though. Maybe I'm just a bit too inexperienced to wrap my head around it, but I'm imagining you have to have some kind of barrier between the space combat and the in ship FPS otherwise rendering would be a nightmare.

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Maybe I'm just a bit too inexperienced to wrap my head around it, but I'm imagining you have to have some kind of barrier between the space combat and the in ship FPS otherwise rendering would be a nightmare.

Portals.

For movement around the ship, its standard fps. In the two (of four) deck Engstrom carrier level I used for testing, you can walk to any part of the ship or you can use transporter rooms. You step inside, pop-up a menu, pick a destination (e.g. launch bay, bridge whatever) and you appear there. The same tech that I use for DJPs on a planet.

When you're in an area (e.g. launch bay) with an outside view to space/planet, that view is rendered using portals and some of the ancient art of alchemy. So you can see whats going on outside in the world, just as if you were looking outside a cockpit. Same with the bridge and anywhere with a window.

So when you land on a planet, you can either transport yourself down (the same way you do it now) or just step outside through an airlock.

And you fly the ship just the same way you do now; except that you do it from the bridge and you must be sitting down at your station - or have the AP on. When you plot a route using the AP, you can leave and just walk about and do what the heck you like; you will still get audio warnings, nav data feeds etc from Mother and the ship's crew just like you do now.

Since I already had pretty much all the tech, glueing it all together with some gum and playdough was trivial. :lol2:

As I said before, it takes experience and know-how to pull off something like this. For us, the sheer amount of work involved with creating the assets (ship, station levels) is the stumbling block, due to limited resources. Hence the diversion to shore up the piggy bank until sometime around 2010 or so when the inevitable announcement comes. :)

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