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Asian MMO sweatshops


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There's no sweatshops and they don't get paid dirt. The article keeps talking about how low their pay is and how bad it all is. Hey, if they could make more money in some other ways, then they are welcome to go ahead and do it, they are not chained to the table. It's how the economy works, supply and demand, and when you create artificial pay scales that's when the economy suffers because then you need to reajust the products prices to fit the artificial pay scales (minimum wage in US anyone?), which means raising the salaries of the other jobs and raising the products prices, therefore those lowliest pay jobs end up being lowliest pay anyway due to inflation.

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How is that awful? For example that boy from the farming family is working and making money, he is probably making more money than he could be earning by doing odd jobs, or there's no odd jobs that he could find. Would you rather him making less money working odd jobs or not working at all?

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quote:

Originally posted by Cruis.In:

am this is just awful...are they that desparate?

uneducated ? WHAT?

Well let's see, if I was a young man in China and was offered $500 to $1000.00 a year to work in a REAL sweat shop, or $1500.00 to $1800.00 to work on a PC pointing and clicking all day.. Hmm.. Which would I choose, Hmmm..

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quote:

Originally posted by nomad:

Funny how some people condone modern slavery by argumenting that an awful salary is better than an absolutely miserable one. It's with this mentality that we end indirectly supporting forced child labor in India, Bangladesh & Pakistan for example.

You know what's funny about that. I remember reading a story about Kathy Lee Giford and how they were using Child Labor to make some of her Clothes in Brasil. Now one thing that you need to know about Brasil is that they don't have things like Child Protective Services as we do here in the US, and pretty much if you're an Orphan or abandoned, you end up on the street with NO WAY of earning a living other than rummaging through garbage or stealing. The Owner of the particular shop that was making Kathy's clothing felt sorry for these street kids (which most people in the country despise and feel should be LOCKED UP) so he gave quite a few of them jobs in the shop. He basically paid them wages that was higher than the average for Brasil and they were able to afford housing, food clothing, basically take care of themselves. Of course after the US got a whiff of these "Sweat Shops" they demanded that they get rid of this horrible "Child Labor", and so the owner had no choice but to fire all of the kids. Eventually he was forced out of business becuase he lost the contract. The US applaudes a Victory and the Children end up back in the street, stealing, rummaging through trash and so on to make a living. The point that I'm making is that before you go in High and Mighty wanting to shut down these jobs, you had better have a way of dealing with the underlying problem of why these people were working these jobs to begin with. Lets face reality. People all over the world are STARVING to death, kids in India, Thailand and other places are being forced into Prostitution by thier families becuase there are NO jobs, even of the "Sweat Shop and Slave Labor" that you complain about. What I've noticed specifically about you Nomad is that you have a very protectionist view of the world in that you don't want Imports coming in from these countries, becuase you feel that your fellow countrymen will lose their jobs. Well at least if they lose their jobs, they live in a country where they won't be allowed to starve to death. The same can't be said about the places where you DON'T want to jobs to go. One of the reasons that wages are so low in many of these developing countries is because there are so few jobs for the masses of people, but as countries like Japan, Hong Kong and Taiwan has shown us, once you create truly MASSIVE numbers of jobs, eventually the wage base goes up, simply because the unemployed labor pool shinks down to nothing. Eventually the same will happen in many of the developing countries today, just as it has happened before, but not if people like you succeed.

quote:

Originally posted by nomad:

Generically, wild unregulated development of the kind we are whitnessing now only serves to enrich a few, and slightly raise the credit disponibility of the masses. I've lately visited a country with a population of more than 170 million were shops offered items priced at the equivalent of 4 $ to be paid in 6 monthly slices on consumer's credit cards, because there was no other way for people to buy stuff.

Oh you mean like the Old USSR Regulated and Controled all forms of development in the country for over 50 years. That was a complete disaster.

quote:

Originally posted by nomad:

I am quite tired to hear all these fancy theories about how third world countries are benefitting from globalization, specially from people who probably never managed more than their own savings or a few shares of a little company and don't even know what a Black Centurion is... By definition free market doesen't integrate mechanisms who could prevent labor predatory practices. What makes me mad is hearing people who aren't probably rich (I mean immediate financial disponibility of 1'000'000 USD/Euros and above without having to resort on guarantees) advocate for a system they don't control neither are play an active role in it.

First of all it's not a "Theory" Do you really think that Japan, Hong Kong, South Korea and Taiwan didn't benefit from Globalization? How old are you, do you think this is all new? Stuff like this has been happening for decades. Years ago, everyone was complaining how we were taking advantage of Taiwanese or South Koreans, how all these poor people were working in Sweat Shops while only the Mega Rich were getting any benefit. Today, the masses in those countries live in relative prosperity. Compare South Korea, which benefited from Globalization, with North Korea that didn't allow "The Capitalists" in their borders. Today the South Koreans live pretty dammed well, whereas the North Koreans are starving to death. How can you look at that and say that Globalization doesn't help the average Joe?

quote:

Originally posted by nomad:

Anyhow, to get back to the topic, it's even more simple than that. Take EVE for example. The skill based game mechanics allows smartasses to just "raise" accounts till maturity during 6-12 months by training skills in the systematic order no real player would ever follow. Then they sell these specialized accounts (mostly either miner/industrial or PvP/PvE) on Ebay for x times their investment who only corresponds to the subscription fees of the "raising" period. After the first initial days, the time spent in managing skills is minimal, and may even be operated through specialized skills managers freely available on the net.

What's your point? Who cares, if someone wants to buy it what's the big deal?

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quote:

Originally posted by Darkling:

You know what's funny about that. I remember reading a story about Kathy Lee Giford and how they were using Child Labor to make some of her Clothes in Brasil. Now one thing that you need to know about Brasil is that they don't have things like Child Protective Services as we do here in the US, and pretty much if you're an Orphan or abandoned, you end up on the street with NO WAY of earning a living other than rummaging through garbage or stealing. The Owner of the particular shop that was making Kathy's clothing felt sorry for these street kids (which most people in the country despise and feel should be LOCKED UP) so he gave quite a few of them jobs in the shop. He basically paid them wages that was higher than the average for Brasil and they were able to afford housing, food clothing, basically take care of themselves. Of course after the US got a whiff of these "Sweat Shops" they demanded that they get rid of this horrible "Child Labor", and so the owner had no choice but to fire all of the kids. Eventually he was forced out of business becuase he lost the contract. The US applaudes a Victory and the Children end up back in the street, stealing, rummaging through trash and so on to make a living. The point that I'm making is that before you go in High and Mighty wanting to shut down these jobs, you had better have a way of dealing with the underlying problem of why these people were working these jobs to begin with. Lets face reality. People all over the world are STARVING to death, kids in India, Thailand and other places are being forced into Prostitution by thier families becuase there are NO jobs, even of the "Sweat Shop and Slave Labor" that you complain about. What I've noticed specifically about you Nomad is that you have a very protectionist view of the world in that you don't want Imports coming in from these countries, becuase you feel that your fellow countrymen will lose their jobs. Well at least if they lose their jobs, they live in a country where they won't be allowed to starve to death. The same can't be said about the places where you DON'T want to jobs to go. One of the reasons that wages are so low in many of these developing countries is because there are so few jobs for the masses of people......... [/QB]

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quote:

Originally posted by Cruis.In:

er darkling, my point is why work in a sweat shop or this shop at all!

Well in China if you're making $150.00 a month, you're actually doing quite well.

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I had some problems with internet connection and could not delete my last post. But i agree with a darkling in your point of view about a child job in Brazil, for many reasons is better for a child works than stay in streets. Of course we need a "better" governement and politics to bring education, health and other things to childrem and population...

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So what are you saying Nomad. Take someone and pay them more than their production/service is worth?

One can argue that the people at McDonalds are making poverty wages. They can't live on them, they can't rent a place on them let alone hope to ever own something of their own, it probably would BARELY if even cover the food bill for a month. Go ahead, raise their wages to $25 an hour. How much would that burger cost you at the drive through then? Now how much do you think another person would demand for his wages, a professional, someone who spend 8 years in college and $75,000 for his education. Someone like a doctor for example? That doctor would say, "if the guy at McDee is making $25 right off the street, then my labor is worth $2500 right off the street". You need to THINK nomad, instead of just throw things out there whithout reason. Reason is what humans do, and when you pay someone more than their labor is worth it defies reason, ruins peoples lives, ruins the economy and lowers humans to animal level. Like I have said before, go read Atlas Shrugged and see on what course people with your ideas are stearing this world to, and for those of you who live in US, you will find out why those people hate us so much.

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quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

So what are you saying Nomad. Take someone and pay them more than their production/service is worth?

One can argue that the people at McDonalds are making poverty wages. They can't live on them, they can't rent a place on them let alone hope to ever own something of their own, it probably would BARELY if even cover the food bill for a month. Go ahead, raise their wages to $25 an hour. How much would that burger cost you at the drive through then? Now how much do you think another person would demand for his wages, a professional, someone who spend 8 years in college and $75,000 for his education. Someone like a doctor for example? That doctor would say, "if the guy at McDee is making $25 right off the street, then my labor is worth $2500 right off the street". You need to THINK nomad, instead of just throw things out there whithout reason. Reason is what humans do, and when you pay someone more than their labor is worth it defies reason, ruins peoples lives, ruins the economy and lowers humans to animal level. Like I have said before, go read Atlas Shrugged and see on what course people with your ideas are stearing this world to, and for those of you who live in US, you will find out why those people hate us so much.

Actually this is a completely different situation and way off topic here.

The point that I'm making is that countries like China, India & Africa need to have SUPER low entry level wages in their economy to spur companies to go in there and setup shop. These types of investments in infrastructure is what makes the economy of these countries grow at disproportionately high rates. Once the Capitol improvements are in place, they are in place period. Even when a situation arises, such as what is now going on in China, where labor begins to become tighter and workers demand better conditions and/or better pay, the Capitol Improvements are already in place and not likely to be shut down becuase of incremental price increases. At this point you not only see the lives of the people in these developing countries getting much better than before, but they begin to become regular consumers of many of the finished goods that were once only marked for export. A new cycle in their economy begins that allows for increases in standards of living, governments that become responsive to the citizens needs and real growth in disposable income, thereby increasing purchasing power. For case studies of what I'm talking about, take a look at Hong Kong, Taiwan, Singapore and South Korea 30 years ago compared to today, and Japan 40 years ago vs today.

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