Cmdr Ristar Posted March 21, 2000 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 I agree, this way we both get what we want and it is a similar thing.It wouldn't be permanent swapping, if we wanted some commanders from EarthCOM to do a mission with us or visa versa we would put them on temporary duty until the mission is over. I'll send my ideas to T.C. and we'll work some things out for role play, I might could use some EarthCOM support on "The Death Wraith" thread, let me know if you're interested or have been keeping up with it. I have an idea about EarthCOM doing some things for ISS in the role play if you want to get involved.Strategic Cmdr. Jeehun Ristar GCV Shogun, ISS02 Chief of Fleet Operations – ISS/SCID (or GCIA??) Fleets Shogun of the Dragon Council – Order of the Jade Dragon -Commander’s Shield www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss [This message has been edited by Cmdr Ristar (edited 03-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 OK, so, let me get this straight. You guys have decided, all on your own, to create an organization within my world, without my approval? GCIA no less???SCID stays in EarthCOM. Thats the end of that story. I will be removing the fleet page in a few mins as it is no longer a fleet.Ristar, as for your ragtag division, I see what you're getting at but (1) I do not like GCIA (2) I'd rather you guys didn't about restructuring my assets without my permission. Yes, I got all the emails you sent me about this but I have not responded because I have not given it any thought.So, until I think about it and come up with my own section name - GCIA is not happening.Thats the end of that. Everyone go home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 AW Right! When you gents get through hashing through the dirty laundry, someone please tell me what's going on here! I still need to finish that ~!@$~@#$@#$# Fleet Structures document and this isn't helping. Somebody better start singing to "Uncle Rattler!" ------------------ Rattler, Insurgent One Spectre Fleet Spectre StarStation ICV Necromancer Official BC3K Tester [email protected] ICQ 12894104"Long Live The Insurgency, Long Live Mother Earth, And Long Live Battlecruiser Developers and Fans!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Ristar, lets call it Central Intelligence OperationS, CIOPS, pronounced: siopsThere, problem solved. Eclipse, please update the fleet FAQ accordingly, and send me an update to repost.[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 03-20-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Sorry SC, didn't mean to step on any toes just was lobbying hard to keep SCID under EarthCom command basicly a friendly debate.Again my must humble apologies. (Don't want EarthCom funding cut any further.) ------------------ EarthCOM-Officer Karl Wolf ECV Hammer of God Epsilon Battle Group (Wolf Pack) 15th EarthCom Planetary Force"When it comes down to it, Earth is first and everyone else can go to Hell." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Siemens Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Derek, do we really need a new Fleet (called CIOPS)? SCID (as a fleet) has been nearly nonexisting, but could have been a chance for some motivated Commander to create something new, equal to each other CALCOM Fleet, as well as EARTHCOM. Is ISS that large that it needs to be divided into fleets rather than, say, wings? We should keep it simple, and not start with fleet groups IMHO, especially as long as there are not enough active players to even fill those fleets. (Most of the active people are with the Insurgency anyway...)Ristar, this does not go against you! The whole structure seems complicated enough without inventing a new fleet along the road, just what Derek did not want to do anyway IIRC.Regards.Thomas (a.k.a. Gudihl) Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Ristar Posted March 21, 2000 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 First, Derek it wasn't my intention to carry on restructuring things without your permission. I wanted to work an idea out with Wolf, get it worked out to a satisfactory compromise and then submit it all to you for approval.I like the CIOPS better, nice play on words.Second, CIOPS will not be a separate fleet so to say, it will be a separate fleet within ISS, but for basic GALCOM structure, there is no new fleet. Strategic Cmdr. Jeehun Ristar GCV Shogun, ISS02 Chief of Fleet Operations – ISS/CIOPS Fleets Shogun of the Dragon Council – Order of the Jade Dragon -Commander’s Shield www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 SCID is not a fleet.CIOPS is not a fleet.Where is the confusion Thomas? Or did I miss something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Siemens Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Well, it looks to me like each of ISS' wings are "fleets" with a Fleet Cmdr. as leader, and ISS seems to be a "fleet group", led by a Strategic Cmdr.(?!?). Maybe I am really confused, heheh. Ristar, can you explain the ISS Fleet structure to me in simple words? The question remains: why is it divided into fleets, and not wings, like all the other fleets?Thomas (a.k.a. Gudihl) Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Ristar Posted March 21, 2000 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 The reason is, If I am going to have CIOPS carrying out the missions I want, it has to be under it's own leadership. So it can't fall under 1 fleet. So it needs its own fleet command, even though it is not "technically" it's own fleet, it still needs to operate alone, if it needed to do something, it can't go through an approval process through the chain of command. It is essentially a Wing within ISS, with it's own Fleet commander, but the reason for my position is that I wanted to oversee certain aspects of ISS and CIOPS. They are both Intelligence gathering fleets (ISS is acutally more than just an intel fleet, but for this debate we'll use the intel assests) I had ideas about missions that I wanted to perform, this way I can do that and hand them down to the Fleet Commanders and let them use their talents and ideas. That is the reason for my position. I sat down with members of the ISS or listened to what they wanted to do, and this is what I came up with. They can use their role playing talents to a full extent now that we all have positions that allow us to do that. That is why I suggested this structure to Derek and he approved it. It still is accountable to 1 person--ME(well 2-Derek). That is the reason for it. It might sound complicated, but come on it's not. Any faction like the CIA can't fall under another command, it has to be a stand alone effort, but it still has to account to someone, the President. To continue with my real life examples. The NSA (National Security Admin.) and CIA have similar intelligence functions, they answer to the President and his advisors, but they have different mission doctrines. That is what the ISS and CIOPS are, they are intel fleets (with the noted exception of ISS) but with different mission doctrines, they both answer to me and I answer to Derek. The intel part of ISS is a pure intel gathering and analysis. CIOPS is a counter-intelligence and counter-insurgency, and interrogation. If you tell me that you can have all that together and work the way I want, you don't know what you're talking about, I know first hand from the military how it works. They might be under 1 command but it has their own mission doctrines and ways of going about things and they have to operate separately. You're right that it is a "Wing" within ISS, but I need a Fleet commander in charge and a structure the way I have set up to make it work the way I have thought about. The people in ISS are happy, I've gotten some new members because of the fleet. We were a small fleet up until now. In the last 3 days I've gotten 5 new commanders, some haven't posted in a while, and were inactive, but now they are enthused about role playing and this game. So what harm have I done, but doing this?ISS will have Wings like other fleets, but CIOPS will be broken into directorates (or wings, call it what you will). The only difference is that I have a Fleet Commander running CIOPS Fleet ( I call it a fleet because of the Fleet Commander running it and in my mind it is a fleet, but for GALCOM it is an organization within ISS) and I am ruling over both Fleet Commanders, this keeps CIOPS an independent organization, mission wise, from ISS and thus not creating a new fleet.I sent all this to Derek and he approved it, he even came up with the new name for CIOPS, and I think it's better than SCID.This might sound like I'm being technical,etc, but that is just me and the way I want to do things, I am trying not to get it complicated for others in my fleet or others at all for that matter.Strategic Cmdr. Jeehun Ristar GCV Shogun, ISS02 Chief of Fleet Operations – ISS/CIOPS Fleets Shogun of the Dragon Council – Order of the Jade Dragon -Commander’s Shield www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss [This message has been edited by Cmdr Ristar (edited 03-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallion Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 My four-bits minus two, aka sticking me nose in where it dont belong 1 - Has the seven day rule been through out for major Fleet reorganization?2 - There are enough Fleet Commanders IMO and another is not needed.3 - Intell ops (overt and covert) overlap so much it be pathetic at times. A good example of this are those agencies within the US govt that do basically the same thing. All the services have G2, and then there is the DIA; four intel branches within the DoD itself. Now look at the rest of the govt. NSA, CIA, FBI, DEA, ATF, INS, just to name a few all basically do the same thing gather intel data within their AOR.Bottom Line: To create a sub-fleet within ISS, with a Fleet Commander at its head is not necessary and is overkill IMO. If ISS neads such an agency then create a wing and have the wing lead by one of the Commanders assigned to it. The Wing Commander would still be controled and report directly to the ISS Fleet Commander.A Fleet Commander (using the game as a example) has the authority to call upon the services of any terran/military assests throughout the BC universe. This is to much authority to be given to what is only a Covert Operations Wing.Questions, comments, and snide remarks are welcomed TTFN------------------ Commander Gallion GCV Graf Spee *1st Squadron, *Corsair Wing Stationed, *Starbase Cerberus "Run Silent, Run Deep" ICQ# 29486270, EST (GMT-5) =Wraith Fleet= Second in Command, Wraith Fleet Bushi of the Dragon Council[This message has been edited by Gallion (edited 03-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Ristar Posted March 21, 2000 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Gallion, That leads me back to my post before, I can't have CIOPS a part of answering to ISS for mission directives. It can be a part of ISS, but it has to have it's own command structure. Part of that it needs a commander that has a similiar rank to stand up to the ISS Fleet Commander so he won't have rank pulled on him and override him. That is the reason. The other is purely role play I wanted to give 2 of my commanders promotions and the structure happen to fall into place that way.All those government agencies you listed are not intel. CIA and NSA are intel, FBI, INS, ATF, and DEA are all police organizations within the Department of Justice, they have no intel capabilities except for gathering information for their agents. The CIA and NSA gather intelligence that determine foreign and domestic policies.When you talk about G-2, that is a security and intelligence officer that is part of a military division. All military units (at least army anyway) have sections in each unit. At the battalion level they are known as S-1(personel and admin), S-2 (intel and security), S-3 (planning), and S-4(logistics). At the division level they are know as G-1, G-2, G-3, and G-4, with similar functions as the battalion level but only for the entire division. So G-2 is not a government agency what so ever. Each one of those section is headed by an officer, usually a captain and his/her title is the name of the department, ie S-1, S-2,G-1, G-2Strategic Cmdr. Jeehun Ristar GCV Shogun, ISS02 Chief of Fleet Operations – ISS/CIOPS Fleets Shogun of the Dragon Council – Order of the Jade Dragon -Commander’s Shield www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss [This message has been edited by Cmdr Ristar (edited 03-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 There should only be a single Fleet Commander per fleet. I have not had time to even look at the fleet structures yet and was leaving that up to Rattler - to flag any inconsistencies. So, if there are more than 1, someone's getting fired.And there should NOT be any fleets within fleets - EVER. Wings are not necessarily used for fighters. So, either use wings or collapse CIOPS. That goes for both you and that other lady running EarthCom/SCID.If you don't like Wings, then use Battle Group - but whatever you do, I only want a single Fleet Leader per fleet. You could then replace your CIOPS Fleet Commander with a Commander - CIOPS Battle Group or Commander - SCID Battle Group.That rank is just a commander, who is in charge of other commanders and personnel in that battle group - so don't go screwing around with the established ranking system.And any member of any fleet, can be temporarily assigned to CIOPS or SCID based on requests or command re-assignment as is appropriate, and then back to their primary fleet once the assignment is over. Get creative gentlemen.[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 03-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 quote:Part of that it needs a commander that has a similiar rank to stand up to the ISS Fleet Commander so he won't have rank pulled on him and override him. That is the reason. I understand the concern but it is not reason enough to complicate the structure. So, my decision is final.We will have to come up with something later, regarding the rank issue. For now, we can assume that the Commander of a Battle Group and a Fleet Commander, are the same rank.[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 03-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallion Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Had a post but to long in submitting it. SC has made ruling so I dumped me discorse.TTFN [This message has been edited by Gallion (edited 03-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Ristar Posted March 21, 2000 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Derek, Here is the post from the email I sent you. I want to get clarification from you. I know CIOPS will be a part of ISS,but with a commander in charge of it. It will be a Wing within ISS.There are some questions I have:Can I have CIOPS detached from ISS to go about it's missions and be a self supporting Wing, with a commander in charge? It still is a wing within ISS but I can let it answer directly to me as Cheif of Operations.Do I stay at rank of Strategic Commander and keep my title of Chief of Operations? I want to stay this rank and have Tringad keep Fleet Commander, because I think we've earned it in coming up with this fleet layout and it's unique and we want to stand out. I've taken alot of flak about this but I think we've come through with our point and I would like Tringad and I to keep our ranks. This has given some of the people in ISS to expand their roles because they are at a higher position now. I can still control both areas of ISS and CIOPS from my position and let Tringad control ISS fleet and if CIOPS can be a detached wing from ISS, that commander can do counter-intel missions I set down.This might sound like I am being greedy, but I thought of this and submitted it to you when others didn't and now certain people aren't happy. I just want to resolve this. I don't want to offend people or cause any disruption in personel matters between people, this is about a role playing GAME and people trying to take initiative and do some things with the game. If people are going to be upset with others ambition even in a role playing situation, then so be it.I just wanted your clarification so we're not doing something you don't want.Strategic Cmdr. Jeehun Ristar GCV Shogun, ISS02 Chief of Fleet Operations – ISS Fleet / CIOPS Shogun of the Dragon Council – Order of the Jade Dragon -Commander’s Shield ISS / CIOPS Fleet Home Page[This message has been edited by Cmdr Ristar (edited 03-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 21, 2000 Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 quote:Can I have CIOPS detached from ISS to go about it's missions and be a self supporting Wing, with a commander in charge? It still is a wing within ISS but I can let it answer directly to me as Cheif of Operations.I don't see why not - but please clarify detached. quote:Do I stay at rank of Strategic Commander and keep my title of Chief of Operations? No. Apart from that, I didn't even know that any fleet leader (RPG or not) was anything other than Fleet Commander rank. I am the only person who assigns ranks - and you will have to rely on your online persona to be promoted based on multiplayer performance and not some RPG storyline you guys have going. quote:I want to stay this rank and have Tringad keep Fleet Commander, because I think we've earned Excuse me for being ignorant, but please explain to me how anyone has earned a rank other than the Fleet Commander ranks I gave out, in lieu of this fleet structure clean up?If Tringad is leader of CIOPS, then his rank will remain Commander - Battle Group, CIOPS. Didn't I explain this already? That rank gives him control over his wing but since you didn't want anyone pulling rank, you and him are the same rank and therefore, you can't tell him what to do. Period. You should have thought about this before going all over the place and making this whole thing more complicated than it needs to be. Maybe we should make him Fleet Commander and bust you down to Commander Battle Group, CIOPS? quote:This might sound like I am being greedy I don't think you're being greedy, I just think that you are making things more complicated than they need to be - and I'm not alone in this assumption.As much as you would like to, you can't have everything. So, make up your mind.[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 03-21-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cmdr Ristar Posted March 21, 2000 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2000 Ok, it's worked out now, and things are back to normal. I feel like "Bunny the Foo Foo" over here (sorry it's a Spec. Forces term) with alot of egg on my face feeling like an idiot after the last few days. We'll get everything worked out.------------------ Fleet Cmdr. Jeehun Ristar GCV Shogun, ISS02 Fleet Commander - ISS Fleet/CIOPS Shogun of the Dragon Council – Order of the Jade Dragon -Commander’s Shield ISS / CIOPS Fleet Home Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted March 22, 2000 Report Share Posted March 22, 2000 hehe, no problem...at least you didn't get busted down a rank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted March 24, 2000 Report Share Posted March 24, 2000 OK, Now that we've all had time to settle down a bit, "Uncle Rattler's" going to make ONE final plea to ALL Fleet Commanders here! Get me those FINALIZED Documents. If your world has changed as a result of the latest intel released by the SC, then fix it and get it in! Be sure and give me the exact coordinates of your Bases, and don't forget to list all of your assigned Commanders as well. I need them NLT (That's Not Later Than for you civies out there) 1800 hours, 25 March 2000! All improperly formatted or incomplete documents will be returned with big reject stamp on them. Then I'm initiating Courtsmartial proceedings for the offenders. Don't know if an Insurgent can hold court in GALCOM space or not but I sure do have a friend that can! If you think you already have your stuff into me and it's right, say so! I'll double check what I have and personally email you to confirm or deny. I don't want to seem harsh here but I've got a sometimes 17 hour a day real job and maybe an extended excursion on the horizon. Time's very valuable to me right now and this project is also very important to all of us. I know that I can count on all of you to lend a hand here. Thanks,Rattler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andergum Posted March 25, 2000 Report Share Posted March 25, 2000 Hey guys the clock is ticking on Rattler's request for your completed fleet data!I have been helping him to get this info formatted and put into a single document... and as of now NO ONE except the insurgents info has been turned in.Earthcom is close except for a few changes due to the recent starstation movings etc..Get on it!!!Tomorrow at 1800 hrs. is the deadline!!!------------------ Cmdr. Andergum Spectre Fleet Pre. comm. Cmdr. New America StarStation ICV Gummy 1 Official tester of BC3K the series... Long live the Insurgency! ICQ # 215323 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREG MILLER Posted March 25, 2000 Report Share Posted March 25, 2000 Fleet Cmdr Blades, instructed me via icq last night, that Orion Fleet's roster was sent to Rattler. If Rattler had a problem with it, he was to e-mail me at my address below. If Rattler does not have it, please contact me with an E-mail address, and I will resend it.Thanks------------------ CMDR GREG MILLER (GMAN) ORION FLEET EXECUTIVE OFFICER TSUNAMI BATTLE GROUP GCV - SARK ICQ 64202480 www.orion-hq.fsnet.co.uk'The righteous care about justice for all, but the wicked have no such concern.' [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted March 25, 2000 Report Share Posted March 25, 2000 Send it to me Greg, my server must have ate it!Thanks, Rattler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 25, 2000 Report Share Posted March 25, 2000 Rattler, I will start on the updated ISS doc ASAP. Just have to change around a few things.------------------ Commander Alun Tringad GCV Black Falcon ISS03 Vice Fleet Commander - ISS Fleet Tactical Support Wing Commander - ISS Fleet Bushi of the Dragon Council - Order of Jade Dragon Director of Strategic Operations - Order of Jade Dragon - Award for Gallantry "Honor and courage, above all else" ISS Fleet Homepage GCV Black Falcon HomepageStaff Member at RPGClassics.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREG MILLER Posted March 25, 2000 Report Share Posted March 25, 2000 You should have it soon, Rattler. Sent it to the E-Mail address in your profile.------------------ CMDR GREG MILLER (GMAN) ORION FLEET EXECUTIVE OFFICER TSUNAMI BATTLE GROUP GCV - SARK ICQ 64202480 www.orion-hq.fsnet.co.uk'The righteous care about justice for all, but the wicked have no such concern.' [email protected] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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