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Achieving Awards, and MP Medals


Guest Remo Williams
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Guest Remo Williams

I like the idea of winning an award of some type for all the time people will spend playing MP throughout the season to make it into the playerÔÇÖs championship. Then fighting their way through the championship to become the year-end champion deserves something whether itÔÇÖs a special sig logo, or and entry in a hall of fame.

If we collected dues for participating during the year it could even be something more physical like a new top notch video card or something else of that nature. A small fleet or league Due makes since for several reasons. It gives the fleet league a way to award the players plus it would keep out the people that are not going to participate in MP. Why would they want to pay a fleet due no matter how small and not participate?

As far as the in-game medals go they should only be awarded when a certain criteria is met same as in the game. IÔÇÖve started to address this over at Prime HQ. We need to have a standard that all Fleets use, well at least all fleets within an Alliance should use to award medals, achieve rank, etc.

At Prime we are working on a Ranking Sheet with a preset EP point value that has to be achieved to meet Rank requirements. When you join Prime you will start to accumulate EP at the Academy and you will continue to accumulate EP throughout your stay with Prime to rise through the ranks and achieve medals.

You gain these EP points by participating through either MP or RP the preferred method will be MP though. When a Prime fleet player makes a kill or follows orders to complete a team objective he earns points, and when he is killed or insubordinate he/she loses points.

Once the Ranks and medals sheet is done I will submit it to the other GalCom Alliance fleets along with the rest of the league fleets and see if this might be of interest to you also. That way we can keep our Alliance and League uniform and Prime wonÔÇÖt be going off on its own yet again.

[ 12-31-2004, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: Remo Williams ]

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Briefly, I'm in favor of pay to play only if both of the following are true: 1) it's paying for me personally to participate in the league, and 2) the money is paying for some kind of prize.

I don't believe in using money to keep people out because ultimately money doesn't prove seriousness, seriousness proves seriousness. If we have problems with lackluster participation, then that's a policy problem IMO. When money changes hands, we'd better be prepared to give something equal in value, and currently I think Derek's the only one capable of doing that.

Like I said though, if it's for a prize of some kind, then I'm all for it. That's good for competition, and I think it could draw good players.

I do think RP should be rewarded, otherwise it's never going to get off the ground. If it ain't your bag, then fine, but if you make RP utterly irrelevant, then it's going to remain utterly uninteresting and unworking.

Sorry for so much critique, but it did occur to me that you could make the league a kind of super-entity that has fleet membership as a pre-requisite, where some players will pay to play in the league, where they will get prizes, etc., but if they just want to be involved in a fleet then they can do so for free. The basis of this view is that people contribute to the fleets in non-MP related ways as previously discussed, and we shouldn't have money changing hands if it doesn't get you anything more than a club membership--even a country club has a good golf course right?

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Guest Remo Williams

Any dues would be used for the right to participate for a prize that would be paid for with the collected dues. You would not be paying for membership in a fleet. I'm disappointed Zane I thought that would have been quite apparent.

A trusted member of the fleet community would have to be elected as treasurer to collect the league dues, purchase, and ship the prize to the championship winner.

On second thought IÔÇÖll just donate a prize myself sounds like a lot less trouble than dealing with the critics. IÔÇÖll announce what the 2005 championship winner will receive at the start of regular season play.

BTW IÔÇÖll be sending off Primes Ranking and Medals sheet by tomorrow to Marvin once he has looked it over IÔÇÖll make it available to the community so you all know what Primes going to be doing for its members to accumulate EP in Multi-Player and Role Play.

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One idea I like is to place a quote, certification or graphic into the signature of the player champion and members of the number one fleet. This award could then remain displayed by the defending winners until the end of regular play for the next MP season.

As our infrastructure stands now, I strongly oppose any compulsive monetary payment, either for fleet membership as a whole, or even just for the privilege to assist one's fellow fleet members in Multi-Player. Fleet dues are different from pay-for-play games. With an MMOG Subscription you actually provide financial support for a professional to continually build, maintain, and expand the universe in which you play, and provide the server hardware and networking bandwidth to host it. Despite the amount of money that Remo has pored into primefleet.com, galcom.net, and possibly an MP prize next year, he is not a professional Fleet Leader. He does, however, have the required skills to provide such service to his Alliance. If I was a new player looking to join a fleet, I might pay a small monthly membership fee to support a part-time professional Fleet Leader.

quote:

Originally posted
by Marvin:

it sounds like an idea that's ahead of its time ... meaning we don't have a large enough "player-pool" right now.

I fully agree.

In order to get serious players involved your fleet, Fleet Leaders and other trusted high-level members should lay the ground rules for awarding new members access to the fleet server - and then work with the Trainees to achieve full fleet member status. Prime Fleet has developed the most successful in-game training program. Even with a solid curriculum under its belt, the Prime Fleet Leadership continues to improve upon it. Effective as it is though, in-game training is only one way to test for and develop commitment in new players. Other ways include:

[*]reporting in for a set number of monthly roll calls

[*]for those fleets that have specific structural provisions for RP (like Prime Fleet's Beta Wing), the potential fleet member could perform tasks as simple as writing a short biography for his main character all the way up to participating in a multi-author story from start to completion

Eventually, I plan to field all of these initiation requirements, and judge the feasibility of each.

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Zane and I once discussed some artwork to represent medals, which we would add to individual fleet sig animations, or place alongside to reduce file sizes. I still have some concept pics (I have an eye of andromeda and order of the universe concept pic somewhere, and had ideas for the planetary and combat shields, but ended up incorporating them into our marine and fighter wing logos, which I never published.

Btw, if we're talking about training programs, ISS has a very powerful and effective training program up and running, which enables tehm to then become more and more valued members, but it happens behind closed doors, like most of our activities, because we're an intelligence fleet and it involves a lot of sensitive information that give us an edge. A prime example of it's effectiveness would be Commander Rip. He went from very rusty to star of the fleet tournament team final in about a month. I just wish more of our commanders would take advantage of it :sigh:

I like the idea of a prize for the season winner, but maybe that's because I think I stand a pretty good chance of defending my title, and I'm not sure how willing people are going to be to pay to take part in the tournament(in whatever form that takes) I suppose it'd depend on how much and if they feel they might miss out on their chance to take part despite having paid for some reason, since disqualifying someone for whatever reason could cause some unrest, but that's another issue. The prize mentioned in that thread sounds awful tempting to me (since I'm not upgrading my graphics card this time round anyway) and I would be willing to pay 10$ or something to enter, but that's just me.

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I'm favourable to the medal/award thing in the sig as a recognition of the result that a fleet or a single commander has reached.

I dunno about the prize to the champion, although this will not be a problem for me, money usually tends to bring in problems and discussions....

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quote:

Originally posted by Remo Williams:

I'm disappointed Zane I thought that would have been quite apparent...

On second thought IÔÇÖll just donate a prize myself sounds like a lot less trouble than dealing with the critics. IÔÇÖll announce what the 2005 championship winner will receive at the start of regular season play.

To your first point, the idea of a pay-to-play fleet has come up in discussions before, so this incarnation of the idea took some zeroing in on, but I think I see what you mean now.

To your second point, just give it a go and see whether it's workable or not if you want to see it happen. Either it will be worthwhile and it works, or it won't, but "the critics" will vote with their absence.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

To your second point, just give it a go and see whether it's workable or not if you want to see it happen. Either it will be worthwhile and it works, or it won't, but "the critics" will vote with their absence.


I intend to because I know its what is need to increase the players base and as far as the critic staying a way that fine by me. Since theyÔÇÖre doing nothing but holding back the rest of us anyway with invalid points and concerns.

The last thing I'm going to do for the MP process, as a whole here is announce what the 2005 winner will receive for his/her victory. I'm done with this political mess thatÔÇÖs accomplishing nothing. I'll remain at Prime's HQ from now on and work only on Prime Fleet. That way I can get stuff done that needs to be done without the headache of the alliance members standing in the way of progress.

Prime is on it own yet again so if our system doesn't mess with whatever the rest of the alliance is doing then I guess it won't be a very good MP season for anyone.

The Winner of the 2005 Championship if there is one will receive a GeForce 6800 GT OC 256MB GDDR3 AGP Graphics Card.

Good luck with your MP gentlemen! If anyone has anything for Prime to hear you can find me at prime's HQ, or just relay a message through my chief since I want nothing else to do with this political mess. I'll do what needs to be done with Prime alone and if necessary run matches between my fleet members by ourselves.

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quote:

Originally posted by Quazar:

One idea I like is to place a quote, certification or graphic into the signature of the player champion and members of the number one fleet.

Did you mean something like the link we use for our system profile?

It could work ... and not clutter up standardized sigs. Simply add a link to a web page with winner stats or to a graphic.

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quote:

Originally posted by Mavin:

Did you mean something like the link we use for our system profile?

Sure; that's a good comparison, Marvin. I had not thought of it that way before.

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This all sounds like great ideas.

I don't know about Ben but I'd say our choice of women on every planet we visit is thanks enough.

God save the poor soles that are forced to face us next year!

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I'd like to look at your ideas for earning medals and rank. I'm sure they'll be appropriate for us as well, though if they include the academy, then ours will have to be adjusted to match our training program, since it uses a slightly different format.

Anyone else have any ideas for graphical versions of the medals?

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Guest Remo Williams

Ben you can keep up to date with what Prime's doing here.

My apologies gentlemen but as I said I no longer wish to be apart of this political process. I'm going to be moving forward on my own to do whatÔÇÖs best for Prime fleet, since that is my main objective, and how I've operated since the beginning to accomplish what I have.

Debating every issue and having the same critic's pop out to slow down everything all the time is just not my style. I'm a military style leader not a debater.

You can keep track of our progress as I said at Prime HQ, but what were doing is not open to debate. It is Prime's internal affairs and how weÔÇÖll be functioning. I'll only make minor changes at the suggestion of my fleet staff.

If the other alliance fleets want to adept similar procedures to allow competition as a league it's up to you. With UC AWA almost upon us IÔÇÖm going to be moving forward in a quick way to accomplish what needs to done to create a successful league making all the need changes within Prime.

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That all looks very good to me, and I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to implement in our fleet. I'm intrigued by the Campaign ROE's idea. I've been having problems creating an account at galcom.net, the confirmatory emails usually get to me after the 24 hour deadline. I'll try again after I've got DSL and can get online more than once a day.

As far as the tournament is concerned, I'm sure whatever structure you come up with will be acceptable.

Zane, don't be so negative. If you want to say no to a suggestion, at least suggest an alternative. Let's just take part and give it a go.

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Guest Remo Williams

Thanks Ben, if you or the other FL's are interested in whats taking place at prime then I'll have copies of all the doc's emailed to you. That way you guys can modify the system to fit your fleets needs, but still comply with league standards.

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quote:

Originally posted by Ben Zwycky:

Zane, don't be so negative. If you want to say no to a suggestion, at least suggest an alternative. Let's just take part and give it a go.

Carefully reread what I wrote. I said that if people were paying in, there should be something later that paid out. Remo was "disappointed" in me for not seeing that it was "quite apparent" he intended to do that, in spite of the fact that paying for fleet membership has come up before. Nonetheless, with that clarification I encouraged Remo to try his idea out, since he was going to find out if it was feasible when he actually made the offer and saw if people were willing to step up with their money. People say all kinds of things until they have to open their wallets--that's life, not criticism.

Remo then went on to tell us all how he was going to basically take his bat and ball and go home since he didn't want to go through any kind of discussion process that would "slow him down," and that he was a "military leader," not a debater. He says that he's only going to attend to Prime fleet, since that's the fleet he's responsible for.

On that point I agree with Remo, and I think that a "military" style leadership from anyone in one fleet where it concerns activities for other fleets is probably inappropriate for two reasons. First, because the only person with that power is actually SC himself, and SC has said this numerous times. Second, because this isn't actually the military, it's a community of people playing a game and giving of their time and energy consentually because they enjoy what they're doing. Where the militaristic atmosphere of the game would run over that basic value, then it's inappropriate, and SC has said that several times as well (remember he threatened to shut down the entire fleet structure if it stopped being worthwhile and fun?).

In this case, no one argues that Remo doesn't put a lot of work into his ideas, but he himself has said on numerous occasions that he doesn't like to involve people in the process of putting them together. He's said that he is more interested in offering the finished product as he envisions it, and then letting people get involved if they're going to. Thus far, people have gotten involved because he's had good ideas, and when he presents them, people are willing to try them out, add comments, and ultimately they get adopted as other fleet leaders approve of them.

If Remo wants a rubber stamp for his ideas in whatever form he decides to offer them, then you who are fleet leaders can decide whether or not you want to give him that latitude. However, that's not the current understanding between the fleets, and I'm not the bad guy here if Remo is disappointed with going through a process to approve his ideas. It strikes me that I put a lot of work into some ideas of my own not so long ago and heard exactly this line from him. I played ball then, and I stayed involved, so I hope he'll show a little more fortitude since ultimately everyone will live with the final gameplay results.

If he sticks with it it'll probably be pretty good even if it doesn't happen as fast as he'd like.

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Remo, Zane, if you two can't get along and keep airing dirty laundry in public, the following will happen - without warning.

  1. You will both be banned temporarily. You guys know the rules - NO EXCEPTIONS.
  2. The fleets will be disbanded and the entire thing deleted. Anyone wanting to join a fleet, will have to then wait for GCO.

Remo, your post was inappropriate and I have deleted it. You two can take it to PM.

Zane, if you both can't work together, then don't. You two are in different fleets with a different command structure. You simply cannot compare the efforts that Remo and the Prime Fleet crew, have put into bringing the [fledgling] fleet issue, where it is today. Their methods have worked thus far, and I expect that they will continue to do so. If you don't want to participate; then don't. If I find that you are acting out of pure childishness and ISS finds it difficult to co-operate and or participate with Prime (or any other fleet), you will be stripped of command so someone who can work with other FLs, can take your place in ISS.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by Ben Zwycky:

I'll wait for the detailed proposal before making any further comments or suggestions, as it doesn't seem to be helpful until things are clarified.

Its almost done Ben, I'm in the process of putting it all into one document and doing some clean-up. You will be getting a PM along with the other FL's containing a link to download the whole package by this weekend.

The 2005 Championship will be vastly different from the 2004 Championship. I'm working all the details out now for it also. I'm very interested in seeing who will walk away with the Grand Prize in 2005.

The runner up will not be left empty handed though either, but I'll save that for a little later.

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