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MP Fleet Action Tournament


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quote:


Originally posted by Zane Marlowe:

Hey does anyone know if the Insurgency actually controls any systems?

*snip*

images for all the races, GALCOM, EarthCOM, and the Insurgency, but I'm trying to figure out who controls what.


No.

And since when were the Insurgents a race?

And while you're at it, the term

Insurgency does not appear in the game's mythos. That terminlogy was coined by one of the Insurgent fans and should not be used when referencing my game materials. They are purely and simply, The Insurgents. Nothing more. Nothing less. So please don't rape my works.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

And since when were the Insurgents a race?


Well, I wrote the races, GALCOM, EarthCOM, and the Insurgents (corrected now ). GALCOM, EarthCOM, and the Insurgents are all organizations. Of those, GALCOM is composed of multiple races, and EarthCOM and the Insurgents are not, but the question about the political map is basically about whether the race/alliance stationed in a system (take, the Balor Fleet, stationed at Sygan in the Barnard's Star system) controls that system, and whether the races (such as the Vesperons or Kandorians) have political control beyond their home systems.

Thanks again,

ZM out.

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quote:


Originally posted by Zane Marlowe:

but the question about the political map is basically about whether the race/alliance stationed in a system (take, the Balor Fleet, stationed at Sygan in the Barnard's Star system) controls that system, and whether the races (such as the Vesperons or Kandorians) have political control beyond their home systems.

Thanks again,

ZM out.


They don't control the system. They control that region. e.g. Sol is a system controlled by Terrans. And if the Insurgents took up shop in the Mars region, they control that region - and not the system.

The presence of a station in a region, denotes control - whether with permission or with force.

The same applies on planets, where you would see regions controlled by a certain race/caste but which has mzones controlled by another race/caste hostile to the planet/region owners.

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Okay, things are going smashingly well. Since I last posted on this topic I've learned what I need to know about PHP in order to create the stuff I need (Dreamweaver is an AWESOME product!). I have two questions.

First, about the Fleet Action database data. As it stands, I've got data from the game data files (geo-political data, base locations, etc.), from the fleet database (who's in what fleets, what fleets exist, etc.), and from the manual appendix (ships, items, equipment, etc.). I've been considering this test data, and I will not make it available unless authorized to do so, and this is the phase of the project where I need that authorization if it's going to happen. (Prime's put appendix data online so I'm not sure it's a big deal, but I wanted to be safe before I publically used SC's IP).

Second, I need Fleet Commanders to post graphics for their fleets. As it stands, I have graphics for all the races and alliances, but not for the individual fleets that will participate. Prime and Wraith have graphics, but Wraith fleet's graphic is not usable since it doesn't correspond to the 74 x 88 pixel resolution that all the rest of the race/alliance graphics are using. Post the graphics on links in this thread when you have them, thanks.

Also, since SC's post, I've refined the database, and battles will now be for planets (not systems) and the individual matches on MP servers will be single-elimination, with each round corresponding to one of the battleflow diagram scenarios (i.e., meeting engagement, force projection, etc.). This means that we can actually calculate winners and losers if we have the data source from the game server that SC was referring to above.

Hope you guys are getting as excited as I am.

ZM out.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

(Prime's put appendix data online so I'm not sure it's a big deal, but I wanted to be safe before I publically used SC's IP).


That info is only available to fleet members and is password protected.

BTW is wolf57 still assisting you in this project as I was informed?

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The BCMG data's PW protected? I wasn't prompted, so I can only guess that it's being taken from a cookie--unless it's not presently secure. At any rate, I need to know what data can be shown. Some of the game data is out there already, but for me to go further I need to know who can access what.

Wolf57 was one of the first to sign up to want to play. He was on XFire when he did so, and we messaged a little so I could test out some of the forum features. He's been really excited about the idea, but basically that exchange was the extent of the assistance you're referring to.

This project I've been coding on my own. From what I hear, Wolf57 hasn't been exactly ingratiating to the BC community or to SC. I'm a patient man, but I think Wolf57 is laboring under some illusions about our relationship that need to be corrected.

ZM out.

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quote:


Originally posted by Zane Marlowe:

The BCMG data's PW protected? I wasn't prompted, so I can only guess that it's being taken from a cookie--unless it's not presently secure. At any rate, I need to know what data can be shown. Some of the game data is out there already, but for me to go further I need to know who can access what.


What data are you talking about? And how are you planning on using it?

FWIW, I still have absolutely NO clue what you're trying to achieve or how it would even work, what relationship it bears to fleets, mp etc.

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Basically it's a gameboard concept. Imagine playing Axis and Allies, Risk, etc., except that it's Prime Fleet that moves around the board, and when you fight battles, they are schedule MP events. When the battle's done, the map is updated.

To give you a sense of what I'm attempting, this map is being generated by a php script that tells it what graphic to use for each planet and star, where they are located, etc. Since I have the script generating this much, it can generate other things. It is no great leap to make those planet images use rollover behaviors to put a graphic for the race/alliance that controls that planet. Imagine now that you have Prime Fleet and Balor fleet fight a MP match, and at the end of the match, someone who had access to the data could input how much exp the commanders received, and whether or not the system fell to the attacking fleet. If the system fell, then the rollover graphic that shows who controls the system would change, and clicking on the planet itself would bring up a reference to that planet's information.

Currently I'm using data from the navchart.ini and the fleet db (commander names and fleet affiliations only), and I may at some point want to input material from the appendix (for fleet ship assignments and logistics). What I'm asking is whether or not the showing of this data hurts your IP, because that's absolutely the last thing I want to do. (I was even hesitant about posting a link to the unfinished map because it was generated from your data.)

Anyways, let me know, I want to contribute to this thing, not hurt it.

ZM out.

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quote:


Originally posted by Zane Marlowe:

Currently I'm using data from the navchart.ini and the fleet db (commander names and fleet affiliations only), and I may at some point want to input material from the appendix (for fleet ship assignments and logistics). What I'm asking is whether or not the showing of this data hurts your IP, because that's absolutely the last thing I want to do. (I was even hesitant about posting a link to the unfinished map because it was generated from your data.)

Anyways, let me know, I want to contribute to this thing, not hurt it.

ZM out.


No thats fine; as long as you don't modify the original data (which you can't anyway, since the INI files are MD5 encrypted). So, carry on with it.

You are aware that the sp and mp worlds are different, right? As such, that navchart.in file has entries for both worlds? Those two worlds are not connected in any shape or form.

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THANKS SC!!!

The data has been imported from those files, but it is not linked to them. I.e., the files remain intact and what changes we make through the database remain in the database and only in the database.

Yes, I'm aware that the MP and SP maps are distinct from one another. The Map you saw drawn in the previous link outputs the coordinates for ALL the stars and planets in the SP map. The basic idea is that MP regions could stand in place of SP regions, and if a fleet takes an MP region, then that fleet get the corresponding region on the SP map where the fleet was located.

Now onto PHP coding and logistics rules.

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quote:


Originally posted by Zane Marlowe:

The Map you saw drawn in the previous link outputs the coordinates for ALL the stars and planets in the SP map. The basic idea is that MP regions could stand in place of SP regions, and if a fleet takes an MP region, then that fleet get the corresponding region on the SP map where the fleet was located.


How confusing

And using the sp galaxy for this, is a big mistake. If you stick to the mp map, then fleets are more likely to use their online engagement to populate your dB. Just my opinion.

btw, a better and more aesthetically pleasing map, would be one with line connections. Like the maps in the appendix.

Also, you shouldn't have to mouse over to see the details. You should include labels (Black text on White background strip) for each, with the ability to toggle them on/off. It will be easier and quicker to read.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Also, you shouldn't have to mouse over to see the details. You should include labels (Black text on White background strip) for each, with the ability to toggle them on/off.

Or both. Like the toggel for radar mode to un-clutter the ITD and the cursor-over-blip to display target data in the TRS.

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quote:


Originally posted by Marvin:

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Also, you shouldn't have to mouse over to see the details. You should include labels (Black text on White background strip) for each, with the ability to toggle them on/off.


Or both. Like the toggel for radar mode to un-clutter the ITD and the cursor-over-blip to display target data in the TRS.


Well thats just great. He'll be learning PHP for a while longer.
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Actually, I'm using Dreamweaver to write the PHP for me. It's working well, and I can hand-code what it doesn't do. I've already got the major stuff done. Incidentally, is it ok SC if I PM you with site links occasionally? I want to make sure I'm not doing anything I shouldn't, and it's easier to show you than to try to describe it.

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Okay, I'm going to bed now...but I finally did it.

Wormholes and Jumpgates. It'll take a second to load, and you may need to get a plug-in to view it, but I'm sure I've never made anything that cool before. Two things you'll notice immediately.

First, the planets and systems are redrawn a little to accommodate the lack of curving lines (yes, even I have my limits). Second, you'll notice that there's a jumpgate line in the Credian System between Scorpia and Herin. Now this interested me when I first saw it because I thought my database had screwed up, but no, it's actually in the Appendix, but it's not drawn in the regular SP map.

Oh yeah, and I'm going to handcode the fluxlines for Obsidia and Alteris later, when I get around to doing labels and rollover behaviors, but yes... bed for now

ZM ou-- ... (shgnkk)

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quote:


Originally posted by Zane Marlowe:

Second, you'll notice that there's a jumpgate line in the Credian System between Scorpia and Herin. Now this interested me when I first saw it because I thought my database had screwed up, but no, it's actually in the Appendix, but it's not drawn in the regular SP map.


Then the appendix is wrong. There are NO links between Scorpia and Herin. Which section of the appendix did you see this?

EDIT: Yep, the navlinks.html file has an invalid jmp-36 link between Herin and Scorpia. Also, jmp-39 goes to Ronus-IV. I have now corrected this file.

[ 06-11-2004, 08:40 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

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Alright, I'll update my data accordingly. Also, I standardized number formatting. Instead of having Polaris-2 and Regis VI, I set the names as Roman Numerals with a hyphen between them and the corresponding word--Polaris-II, Regis-VI.

If that's a problem I'll change it back, but if so, is there a reason why these are not standardized?

ZM out. (and awake now!)

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Hey friends, I have a broad question that I want some input on.

I've had the idea since I began working on this that we would have some kind of logistics system, and the basic beginning place for that would be with some kind of rating system that would classify fleet assets.

The basic idea I had for rating would be some kind of formula derived from an average of offensive and defensive values associated with the ship, but I haven't played with any numbers yet. My intuition is to try something where we use something like the following:

(turrets x rate of fire x damage) + (main guns x rate of fire x damage) + (missile tubes x avg. damage/warhead) for offense.

For defense, it might be (shield+armor+hull) x speed (faster ships may make up for their light armoring sometimes).

If you averaged out the defensive and offensive scores for each CC, would you get a decent estimation of the offensive and defensive capabilities of the ships? Would you change or adjust the formula ideas I had above for some different kind of offense/defense score?

I'm all ears.

ZM out.

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UPDATE!

The second-most difficult thing to putting this online has been figured out! Today I got the PHP I've been coding to show up in the PHPNuke CMS I'm supporting the site with. It looks EXCELLENT. I'm about 2/3 to 3/4 of the way through coding that whole bit, and then we can start playing! Currently the module that will make these features available to users is not visible, so I can't show you much right now, but I thought you all would like to know we're closer to the end than the beginning.

ZM out.

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PREVIEW TIME!!!

Okay, the basics are done. I still have to integrate the map and rules for strategic play, but you guys can see the basic bits to keep track of:

[*]Which planets are owned by whom.

[*]Active campaigns (those that are not are accessible from the detail sections of the various fleets and planets those campaigns were associated with)

[*]Which commanders are in which fleets (let me emphasize, this is all test data, actual fleet memberships will be resolved permanently after June 30th per SC).

...and much, much more to come, including but not limited to: strategic movement rules (on the SP map), the final version of the map, Intelligence gathering rules, and Logistics.

When you look through, there is lots of empty/test data. I put an example engagement in, and example text to go with Prime, ISS, Mercury, and Fleet Commander Marvin.

Hope you like the MP element of Fleet Action , let me know if there are elements that are missing or you think should be added to what you already see.

Now to bed.

ZM out.

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quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Still has a long way to go before its even anywhere near
usable
.


Yeah kinda...it depends on what you mean by a long way. From the standpoint of the number of elements yet to be finished (the "much much more" in my last post) there is a whole half of the game to work in. If, however, we're talking about my overall coding task, then we're a lot closer to the end than that. The database contains all the data I need for the strategic element, and I just need to add those fields to the PHP pages that you've just now seen as well as ...

quote:

Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

And where is the map? Why is it not displayed on the main page or do you have to register/login first?

No, nothing wrong with your browser. Because the map is using CSS to position the elements, then I actually need to adjust the XY data for the whole map (I don't have to do individual elements now, but rather the whole thing at once, so a few update queries will take care of this right quick), in order to size and position it. Finishing the map is now my main priority, but it's probably not more than an afternoon's work--rollovers and fleet insignia included.

Two things I now need: (1) it's no accident that there are no fleet insignia on the Fleet Profile pages for all fleets except prime! I need fleet graphics from the other fleets--even Insurgent Fleets--and I need them in 74x88 px graphics (just as the existing GALCOM logo is); and (2) I meant what I said about needing help with evaluating ships on some kind of points-based system!

Every player fleet has what I'm calling a fleet rating (formerly I called it a logistics pool), which is a measure of its overall strength and readiness. When commanders begin an operation (both attacker and defender), they commit a certain amount of that rating to the operation. That rating then is used to determine what CC's are available to commanders in the battles that comprise that campaign. This element is the main reason why the Strategic element of the game (centered on the map and some similarly structured detail pages to the ones you've already seen) is going to require smart commanders to execute careful strategy.

If no one else has thoughts about how to rate the CC's in the game, then I'll make up my own rules for it, but I realize that I stand in tall company here when it comes to evaluating the exact performance envelope of these most powerful spaceborne assets.

Besides that, let's see what else I've already got ready to implement...

Intel rules, check--it's a mission type that you'll see with it's own status and briefings for players, so that's a quick add.

Strategic fleet movement, check--fleet location is already worked out, and commanders will be able to see their location on the strategic map when I get it finished. Moves are submitted just as battle results are (to myself or a Fleet Action admin who has access to the DB). (Making it double-blind is part of my eventual goal, but we don't need to have that prior to actual play; we can for now proceed on the assumption that you can't actually hide whether or not a huge fleet is in-theater, just where exactly it may be hiding at a given moment, hence the intel component.)

Resupply missions, check--it's another mission type just as intel missions are, but they won't show up in planet-campaign missions, rather in strategic-campaign missions, to be soon (quite easily) created.

Even if that seems a big list, remember that because my approach was to build the tools first, and use the tools to create the rest. It took a while to build the tools, but because I did, and because I knew where I was going when I started, adding anything now is a snap.

That said, is there anything missing from the overall picture that people would want in a combination strategic game board/mp system such as we've been outlining?

All the best friends,

ZM out.

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quote:


Originally posted by DREADA:

However, anything more than the above would require discussion amongst the alliance leaders not to mention approval from SC himself!


Correct

quote:


I think the problem arises when you introduce this concept of fleet asset rating or logistic pool. In effect you are proposing a gameplay system that would enforce a one-way method of alliances organising their resources and playing in mp. Frankly, I think thats something that either SC or the alliances will mutually determine for themselves over time.

Thats why I'm not saying anything atm because I have no idea why he's making up these rules of play without consulting with the established and authorized fleet leaders. Those decisions are to made by them and passed along to me for final approval.

Looking at what he's doing, I was under the impression that he was just doing the background underlying architecture, into which all the rules would be plugged in. So far, this does not seem to be the case and I have received emails and PMs about it already. Funny that I should see your post about these same concerns.

At this time, I am not prepared to comment on the rule based aspects - nor is anyone authorized to do so without my expressed permission. Until the framework is actually completed, no rules based discussions are required.

Besides, its already become too bloated and complex to be of any use.

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