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Fleets and Squadrons


Guest <font color=red><b>DeSylva</b></
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Guest <font color=red><b>DeSylva</b></

I'm starting this subject again here as the thread was closed before I got a chance to post...*grin*. This is also a more appropriate forum to discuss this issue as it has become an RP issue.

I think we have a problem here, in that a distinction between Insurgent Squadrons and GALCOM Fleets is being made, where really they are one and the same. The Insurgents themselves are not a "fleet" in the sense that SDF, Orion, ISS, and Wraith are "Fleets". Insurgents are a _group_, the same way GALCOM is a group. As such, GALCOM and Insurgent are analogous to one another; they are on the same level, or the same tier; and groups such as the Spectre Squadron and Wraith Fleet would be homologous to one another as well, as they both represent the same step down.

What Rattler is suggesting is breaking his main group (Insurgents) down into smaller groups (Squadrons). What is being suggested with Wraith Fleet actually goes a step further - breaking down the main group (GALCOM) into a smaller group (Wraith), and then breaking this smaller group down further (squadrons within Wraith).

Now, my _OPINION_ is that Fleet Coordinators/Leaders/Whatever, should have the power to allow or deny membership of a fleet. If someone applies to join the ISS, I would like to have the power to say that they do not suit the role, and should apply elsewhere. As far as running out of numbers is concerned, we already have fleets with unlimited numbers - GALCOM Prime, Insurgent Prime, and EarthCOM Prime.

My recommendations follow. However, these are just recommendations. This is Derek's call, and I have no problems abiding by his decisions.

My Recommendation:

MAIN GROUPS: GALCOM, EarthCOM, and Insurgent.

There is only one level of division below the main group, and these are fleet divisions (at least, as far as the player is concerned). In GALCOM, player groups within GALCOM are known as Fleets. In EarthCOM, player groups within EarthCOM are known as Battlergroups. In the Insurgents, player groups within the Insurgents are known as Squadrons. All three - Fleets, Battlegroups, and Squadrons - occupy the same level in the hierarchy.

FLEETS:

GALCOM -> Special Defense Fleet (for competition purposes only), Orion Fleet (membership by application), ISS (membership by application), Wraith Fleet (membership by application), Prime Fleet (member by default).

EarthCOM -> Prime Fleet (also known as the 15th EarthCOM Planetary Force, member by default), Alpha Battlegroup (Command, membership by invitation only), Sigma Battlegroup (membership by application), SCID (membership by application).

Insurgent -> Prime Fleet (member by default), Spectre Squadron (membership by application), Raven Squadron (membership by application).

- All players should make a decision regarding which fleet they wish to join before registering;

- If a player does not join a fleet, they become members of the Prime Fleet by default;

- Fleets in GALCOM are homologous to Battlegroups in EarthCOM and Squadrons in Insurgent circles.

- Squadron/Fleet/Battlegroup leaders have the right to veto a new membership application.

Whoop, there it is. Feel free to accept it or discard it as you please. I think this keeps thing as uncomplicated as possible. I think we should avoid adding a third level of complexity to the system by splitting fleets/squadrons/Battlegroups up further into sub-groups. I think Wraith Squadron should be left the way it is. I really don't see a problem in limiting access to the player-controlled and run fleets (ie. SDF, Wraith, Orion, ISS, SCID, Sigma BG, Alpha BG, Spectre, and Raven) as long as the PRIME fleets are not limited in any way. However, if others see imposing limits on fleets as a problem, then Wraith Fleet should be allowed to simply grow. After all, I don't see a huge influx in the near future - the only fleet that's drawn over 24 ships, Daniel, has been the SDF - and there are prizes involved there smile.gif">*grin*.<p>How[This message has been edited by DeSylva (edited 10-09-98).]

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Guest Ron Wallin

Sounds good DeSylva. The plan seems to keep things very organized and simple. However, until Rattler and I have a chance to confer on your proposition, the break down will not work for the Insurgents. I or Rattler, sent you a file not too long ago detailing the breakdown of the Insurgent forces. In short, it went like this:

Insurgent>Spectre Fleet>Squadrons.

Our reason behind this type of breakdown is simply numbers. The players that have signed up for the Inurgent cause are just too few right now. The core Insurgents detailed in that doc make up a kind of War council for Rattler. Out of this War Council, campaigns are planned, squadrons assigned, and squad members and squad leaders are assigned. This allows us to work effectively with our small numbers now and be prepared for the potentially large numbers in the future.

But, this is an evolving situation (thand God), and as such, I am flexible. But, until I have a chance to discuss this with Rattler, I ask that no firm decissions be made. Thank You.

Cmdr. Akira, ICV-NEVERMORE, Raven

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(Edit about 15 mins after I posted)

This is too commaders who are STILL trying to figure out the fleet structure. (end edit)

(re-edit One final time. Names are important to most people. The thing I went off on was the Insurgent/Spectre Fleet etc. The Insurgents have Spectre Fleet. Anything else is a Squad within Spectre. Insurgent is the Caste. Spectre is the FLEET. Squads are internally defined. There is no dissension among the Insurgent ranks and someone may have had a late idea however my original post still stands. That is the most quarter I will give,

No No NOOO! Stop right now! I thought we already had this all figured out.

Anyone Registered as Galcom is in the Galcom Prime Fleet. From the Largest Warmonger Super Carrier to the smallest personal jetpak. YOU ARE GALCOM PRIME FLEET.

I see no problem with a fleet within a fleet. The number 7 and the words "U.S. BATTLE" come to mind.

The word Prime means first, most important, predominant, among others I can't think of right now. Therefore you have the Prime fleet having SUBORDINATE fleets within it. Whst's the problem?

ISS, Wraith, and Orion are Subordinate fleets to GALCOM Prime Fleet. What's the problem?

Now then, Insurgents are a single group opposed to GALCOM. We are ONE fleet and one fleet only as defined by the manual and higher sources. Yes we have Squadrons to perform specific tasks. If someone would rather join Wraith Fleet than an Insurgent Strike Squadron , well it's just a name thing. smile.gif (edit one insulting statement)

I haven't seen much on them but I feel EarthCom is about the same way. Earthcom is a FLEET. That is all. A fleet. The Earth's security forces but still a single fleet. If EarthCom wants to have Squads for specific tasks great! Go for it. Insurgents are.

Disreagrding resource issues, Galcom Prime = Insurgent Fleet in the level of general heirarchy. ISS fleet , WRAITH fleet, and ORION fleet = Insurgent Squadrons. What's the Problem? If you can't figure out the similarities well I'm sorry.

If ISS , WRAITH,, and ORION choose to develop squads that is great. I don't think Insurgent could break down any more but that is part of the script no? Underdog and all that.

But quit screwing around with things when we had it all figured out. There is a time to be diplomatic and a time to make a decision. Diplomacy is OVER with. People have had PLENTY of time to state their wishes. Make a DECISION.

I beleive I have a firm grasp of things as they stand. If I don't feel free to lambast me till i am hanging on to an airlock by my finngertips but this is the way I feel.

Commander Chavik

ICV PHOENIX

[This message has been edited by Charles Lindsey (edited 10-10-98).]

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Okay, here is the situation. I was mistaken in some of my statements about the Insurgents, so lets clear this matter up.

Firstly, the GALCOM structure that we all know and love is UNCHANGED. Let me repeat that. It is UNCHANGED. You still have GALCOM, with the main body of ships being GALCOM Prime Fleet Group, and specialised fleets, squadrons, or WHATEVER you want to call them, below. The question I am asking is WHY complicate this matter any further by adding MORE sub-groups underneath a fleet such as Wraith.

As far as Insurgents are concerned, I stand corrected. The Insurgent main force, the same as GALCOM's Prime Group, is the Spectre Squadron.

I offer, then, the following breakdown.

GALCOM PRIME GROUP

-> SDF }

-> Orion }Specialised

-> ISS }Fleets

-> Wraith }

INSURGENT SPECTRE FLEET

-> No OFFICIAL sub-groups as yet.

EARTHCOM 15TH PLANETARY ASSUALT FORCE

-> Alpha Battlegroup }

-> Sigma Battlegroup }Specialised

-> Omega Battlegroup }Fleets

As you can see, the main body of GALCOM ships is called PRIME, the main body of Insurgent Ships is called Spectre, and the main body of EarthCOM ships is called the 15th Planetary Assault Force.

Are there any problems with this?

I am not even going to bring GALCOM's Fleet Groups into this because it would just confuse the issue. As far as signing the roster and joining fleets, these fleets are the ones that are there.

We appear to have a situation, though, where the Insurgents and EarthCOM are creating unofficial groups - in essence, the same as Fleet,s but unofficial - because they were only just starting when the no new fleets order came across. Perhaps we need a two week amnesty while EC and Insurgents decide their own internal structure - at the end of that week, the internal groups can be made official, on the same level as GALCOM's Fleets. I know that the Insurgents have at least two squadrons (equivalent to GALCOM's fleets) that they are using unofficially, and EarthCOM has three Battlegroups.

Here is a graphical representation of the situation as I understand it. Please note, only the GALCOM Fleets are official at this stage - I have included Insurgent Squadrons and EarthCOM Battlegroups just to illustrate where they would fall, should they be made official.

tiers.gif

[This message has been edited by DeSylva (edited 10-10-98).]

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Thanks for the graphics smile.gif. From what I know and understand that is correct.

I really shouldn't have gone off like that and I will remove one particular statement I don't like .

It's all names. Similiar to a Marine Corps Captain is equivalent to a Navy Lieutenant smile.gif

(thanks Rattler,)

But we all have a main group and then subgroups. After CAREFULLY re-reading your original post I see that you are correct with the exeption of Insurgent Prime. As this was the way the Commanders Roster was set up for a few days I can see where the confusion came in. I even had that discussion with Rattler myself as to whether we were going to be Insurgent Prime because that was the only option in the registry. That is all fixed now.

Thanks again for the graphics. smile.gif I think that nails it on the head.

Anyone else wanna stir this pot awhile? My arms are tired. smile.gif

Commander Chavik

ICV PHOENIX

[This message has been edited by Charles Lindsey (edited 10-10-98).]

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DeSylva has made some excellent suggestions.

As per my authority, it is now law.

btw, please go back and edit the Earthcom

graphic, it has a spelling error in it.

Also, guys, when you edit your post multiple times, be sure to remove the existing default 'editing' prompt at the bottom before re-submitting. Charles, take a look at your post and you'll see. Remove all three entries and there will be only one when you resubmit the post.

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