Fun Part 3 Fresh Meat!

[Charles Lindsey]

This thread is to thank all those who have joined in recently into the Galcom/EArthcom/Insurgent Debate. Thank you Commander Grenville, Commander Wolf, Commander Locke, and Commander Khir'san.

<RP> ON

Ahhh yes Commander Khir'san. Another cadet newly raised to Commander. Full of ideas, ideals and ready to defend the galaxy against all that is wrong. Well I tell you to look to yourselves to see what is wrong.

Who told you we hunger for power and wealth? WHO? Or was it your own idea? Let me assure you the only power we want is the power of the people returned to them. The only wealth we want is Earth's. Earth's wealth (such as it is after the UFN has had her for so long)returned to her people. We wnat Earth's wealth kept on Earth. Not squandered on a war machine that could have been avoided nor an alien prescence whose total existence on Earth is subsidized by the UFN. Alliances are one thing but giving away the farm is another.

Fledgling space faring race that we are do you not think we are being used to some ultimate end? Who gave us our technology? Not us. We were as a baby pulling himself up to a table trying to learn to walk. Then we were given the ability to run. Quite a leap and Terra has paid dearly for it. We ran right into the jaws of the lion.

As far as a two front war goes, it would have been one front only had the UFN not desired to explore the farthest reaches of space without learning how to walk first. Crawl; then walk; then run. We were learning to crawl. We had friends close to home. But the UFN had to run the first chance they got.

The one sane argument you put forth was ruined. Do you think Galcom does not kill our mothers? Our fathers? Our sons and daughters? Thank you for allowing us our cause but your virtues blind you.

Thank you for introducing yourself via GNN Commander Khir'san. I will put you on my Priority list.

</RP> OFF

Welcome back T.C.! Good to see your input again.

Commander Khir'san. Hope you don't mind me changing GDN to GNN, If Derek allows GDN I'll follow along. Perhaps GNN DNU. Galcom News Network, Daily News Update. Derek's site, Derek's game, Derek's world. We are just along for the ride.

But thanks for the input regardless!

Commander Chavik

ICV Phoenix

"We Shall Arise From The Ashes"

P.S. I'm not the only one who can make a topic down here. I enjoy it but ya'll are making me a bit paranoid. LOL. So long as we keep it cool and follow Derek's rules I think everything will be O.K. Nothing pointless but spinoff's would be cool. And where is the Debate among Earthcom And Galcom? I would like to see that. Everyone is concentrating on the Insurgents (oops roleplay opening).

P.P.S. Anyway thank you all for joining in. it's great!

Charles

[Guest]

<Roleplay at the moment OFF>

Well i think it will take a while until im up to date on everything that has happened in here, so it will take some time until i start again to go up on the INsurgents, but be sure the Galcom's won't be spared this time *g*, everyone will get his share. But a question about the patch (1.09d) is it normal that you do not gain EXP for destroying targets?? Maybe this has already been stated somewhere but as i have been offline for a long time, i have a lot to read in here, so would be good if someone could tell me *g*, but the missions are really nice, and Fleet C&C is really good, to bad that my own game is not the official version, because the insurgents have lost there two known stations here, *g*, but i guess some of you insurgents have already blsted EarthCOM's station into bit's and pieces in your version *g*, so we better stick to the official *g*.

well thats it for now, i hope Interplay does ship v2.0 soon, as everyone in here *g*

EarthCOM-Officer T.C. McQueen

ECV-Saratoga

15th EarthCOM Planetary Force, Alpha Group

"One time a marine, always a marine and to the hell with anything that stands in our way!"

[This message has been edited by T C McQueen (edited 11-24-98).]

[Alun]

<RP off>

Yeah, welcome back TC.

Chavik: I told you once, that I didn't like big mud slinging contests. But, what the hell, here I go:

<RP ON>

You UFN types make me sick, always fighting amongst yourselfs like a pack of sick little dogs. That will be your undoing. If EarthCom and Galcom got along, maybe you would stand a chance against us, till then, your only hope of survival is surrender. While you two (EarthCom & Galcom) are off fighting between yourselfs, we can come in and take over. So, you have three choices: 1) Stop fighting amongst your selfs and look at the real threat, and maybe stand a chance. 2) Continue to fight each other and die. Or 3) Surrender and live. It's your choice, make it wisely. Till then, look out, because we're everywhere, and can strike without warning.

<RP OFF>

How was that for my first time around?

Later all.

Cmdr. Alun Tringad

ICV Guardian

[This message has been edited by Alun (edited 11-24-98).]

[Guest Strategist]

Thank you Charles - er Commander Chavik! I live for good role-playing, so I love these forums. Okay, lets see here.

{RP on}

Khir'san: Lieutenant, run a trace to see if you can find the source of this latest transmission from the renegade Chavik.

Comm Officer: Aye sir.

Khir'san turns to his personal vid unit and rereads the message. He smiles wickedly and taps the record button on his VR unit.

"Commander Chavik, I am glad to see your clouded vision has not kept you from reading the GNN. Perhaps you were hoping to find another headline on your most recent atrocity? {Khir'san chuckles lightly)

I was once neutral myself in the bickering between the ICV and Earthcom. Sure, mistakes may have been made by Earthcom in the early years. I was satisfied with teaching Terran history and military tactics at the academy. I certainly had no desire for command. But the ICV changed this with its cold blooded destruction of a civilian convey returning to Earth from Empirian space. Someone very dear to me was on one of those ships. Tell me, where were you on stardate 2.13.98? Where you fighting for your cause by destroying three research vessels bound for Earth?

Your persistence is to be commended and I do indeed hope you place me on your Priority list. What would your superiors say if a new commander in GCV were to defeat one such as yourself? I would find the opportunity most satisfying. So please do, call off one of your inexorable attacks on innocents and find me in the Terran Quadrant. The GCV Lexington will leave the lights on for you.

What has come to pass cannot be changed. The future however, holds many possibilities. I encourage you and your ICV compatriots to put your differences with Earthcom aside, at least militarily and help us against the Gammulans. For if you do not, your future is very clear - what little there is left of it.

The time for debate, Commander Chavik, is ended and it is now time for action. Make the right decision and many lives will be spared, including yours and your crew."

Khir'san's cold expression holds for a few seconds on the vid cam before he ends the recording. "Lieutenant, attempt to track this signal to its destination. We'll be setting a course for that sector as soon as we have it."

Comm Officer: Aye, sir.

{RP off}

Khir'san is not a wide-eyed cadet, but an accomplished professor gone commander. All the more fun I say. Thanks for having me Chavik, this should be a lot of fun.

[Guest Locke1]

{RP}

Re : Wolf's last message on the old board

You slick polished uniforms always find a way to twist the facts through eloquent language and trickery, but rest assured the common people of Terra are not so ignorant. You consistently refer to us as terrorists, but it is truly you who are terrorizing the human race.

My namesake, John Locke, once said that government exists only to protect and SERVE the people's needs and ways of life, and when they stop serving these purposes or act without the consent of the people, that government should be toppled and REPLACED.

We, the Insurgents, in our early days were a coalition of humans who were a part of a growing discontent in human society about the way our planet was being run. We spoke out against exhorbitant military budgets and alliances with alien species known very little to the common man, but were any of our concerns ever put in consideration? Did any Galcom or Earthcom politician ever address the issues that a large segment of the terran population were worried about? No! Therefore, as the ancient philosopher Locke would say, the time for passive resistance and vocal opposition is over. The government is no longer a democracy when the people's concerns our ignored, and soon our fears were turned into reality as the Insurgents, a peaceful political group, were declared outlaw! What choice had we in the face of this outright injustice? It was clear that the government was determined to quell our independent spirits with force instead of intelligent debate, so we were forced to defend ourselves in kind.

Not all Galcom and Earthcom representatives and commanders are evil, many are truly dedicated to the terran people and believe that Galcom is still true to the lofty ideals that it once represented. These young officers, as I myself was a member of many years ago, soon realize the true face of Galcom and the fact that the ideal no longer exists in any form within it. HOWEVER, there exists a core of naive militarists and upholders of the status quo, that refuse to accept any criticism of their way of doing things, and that respond to any such criticism with threats and violence. These, dare I call them elitists, are the ones that are destroying freedom and democracy on Earth, and it is Commanders like you, Wolf, that we Insurgents are determined to wrest away from control of the human people. No threats from me, Wolf, only a promise that we are coming for you and your kind and nothing will stop us from putting the power back into the hands of the human people!

"Life, Liberty, and Property"

-John Locke

Commander Locke

ICV At All Costs

[Alun]

Cmdr. Locke: You are so true, brother.

<RP ON>

I think there are many young Commanders in Galcom and EarthCom that don't know what they're fighting for. If they would only realize that the UFN has brought so much pain and suffering to the people of Earth. But I guess they're blinded by the false virtues and morals of the UFN. On the outside, the UFN might look like they're trying to help and protect the good people of Earth, but when you get down to it, they do just the opposite. I ask each and every EarthCom and Galcom officer to take a close look at what you fight for, is it what you wanted to fight for when you signed up? If you truly look, you will find that you are fighting for, not the good people of Earth, but for the politicians who plague and devastate it's government. I hope each and every Galcom and EarthCom officer reads this and takes the right path, for the wrong path leads to death, you can be sure of that.

<RP OFF>

Man, I'm starting to like this!

Later all.

Commander Alun Tringad

ICV Guardian =Spectre=

[This message has been edited by Alun (edited 11-24-98).]

[Rattler]

<RP>

"And the eyes of the innocent were opened, never more to walk in he cold, heartless shadows of ignorance and darkness!" Forget not history, or you are bound to repeat it. Awaken Young Warriors! A new age is on the horizon, and an opportunity to make a new history, rather than re-live the past. Spectre is waiting. Come join the Cause, The Insurgency!!

<RP/>

Cmdr Rattler, Icv Necromancer, Spectre, Insurgent One

[Guest Oliver]

<RP>

Good evening, everybody...

I think we are starting to make this war(and it IS a war, after all) a political issue. Do not misunderstand me, it IS a political issue, actually. But not ours. We are not politicians but warriors. All we have been trained for (all of us) is fighting, not discussing (though you guys are really good at it... ). What did your DI told you? Was it "Talk to your enemy" or was it "Blow the livin' **** out of the freak"? Well, my DI told me the last thing. But we try talk about the problem. Actually, nobody, on either side, is going to leave his/her position, after all. This issue really bothered me. Please let me know your opinion about this problem. Thank you.

O. Hasenau

ICV Vengeance

"Dead men tell no tales"

[Guest]

<RP>

Contrary to what any of you rebels would like to believe EarthCom/Galcom are not politicians we do not make the laws. So if any of you have any legitament grievances you should have taken them to the UFN, because through them, all laws are made. And all UFN members are elected officials.

I wonder, if the UNF has truly turned into this out of control dictatorship that you all claim it to be, why was there a number of new members elected into the UFN during the past elections? If the UNF was this monster you claim, why hadn't incumbent UFN members declared martial law and suspended all elections in order to keep from losing their seats? You say you don't know. Well it's not hard to see. If it looks like a democracy, if it smells like a democracy and if it acts like a democracy, then it must me be a democracy.

It's that simple, democracy is alive and well on Terra but I know you will refuse to believe this and I also know you will do your best to show the people of Earth otherwise, even if it means grabbing them by the throat, putting a blaster to their heads and making them see it differently. How typical of radicals, to believe that a whole people can't make up there own minds and that they need someone to show them the true path to take and that true path being yours.

Let me give you a quick refresher course in Democracy 101 .

1) The population of Earth is made up of many different people.

2)People with similar ideals come together and pick someone that will best represent their ideals in a governing body.

3)Elections are held and the person with the most votes goes to represent his supporters.

4) If the elected official don't do a good job then when the next elections come around they are voted out and replaced by someone new.

It's that simple, and this happens everyday on Earth, so don't you tell me that the people on Earth don't know what's best for them, because they do decide what's best for themselves and if someone screws up then he/she is out of a job.

Oh another piece of reality for you. If you think that we are just bombarding the people of Earth with our propaganda, you are wrong again......there is this thing on Earth called "Freedom of the Press" and I can attest that it is very free indeed. So your entire insurgent movement is built on nothing but sand and once you strip away all the self righteous rhetoric you are nothing more than criminals, terrorists and murderers.

Karl Wolf

ECV Hammer of God

Epsilon Battle Group

15th EarthCOM Planetary Force

"When it comes down to it, Earth is first and everyone else can go to hell."

</RP>

[This message has been edited by Karl Wolf (edited 11-25-98).]

[Guest Oliver]

<RP>

Good evening again.

You have the wrong job, Cmdr. Wolf. You should have been a comedian. I know what democracy is, but we do not only TALK about it here at Spectre, we actually have it over here too. Don't believe me, right? You don't have to. It would just be be one more attempt of your atrocity propaganda. Besides, who's gonna put a blaster at anybody's head? Forgot why the Insurgency was established? Yeah right, the people were dissatisfied about the prices of Coke and Pepsi and all those adverds during "Indiana Jones XXV". Come off it. And you have the insulence to call us radicals? I gotta get going or otherwise I *might* get angry...

O. Hasenau

<RP Off>

Hey, Karl, hope ya saw the "RP" tag above...

[Guest]

Yeah I saw the roleplaying tags.

<RP>

Yet again we hear the incoherent babblings of a insurgent gone made.

And I am well aware of why the insurgent movement started. And I will respond to each and ever one of them.

1) Insurgents felt that the UNF was allocating too many resources to dealings outside of Earth and not enough on Earth. The problem of the depleting Ozone layer and other problems.

Well at the time mankind was entering a new age and we found ourselves poorly lacking and inadequately able to defend ourselves if attacked by a alien race, so we had to play catch up; in order, to be able to defend ourselves which meant using any available resource that was necessary for the survival of humans. We had to put less critical issues on the back burner for the moment so that we could concentrate on more pressing matters. Now that we are up to speed we are now using resources from other planets and are no longer using Earth and at the same time, we now have the time to correcting many of the problems on Earth such as the Ozone layer.

2) There where unproven reports of less than legal tactics used against insurgents.

For one I don't condone the using of violence against a civilian population. You have to understand, EarthCOM is a military force not a policing force. I don't admit to any actions taken place back then but there was bloodshed on both sides of the conflict and the insurgent cause was outlawed when EarthCom men and women along with a few politicians were killed by bombings and other attacks. Now what government you know of would not outlaw an organization for carrying out such activities no matter how right they might have been.

You have to realize many of these things took place over 35 years ago and many of the main people involved in them, on both sides, are either dead or in covalence homes. Also many of the issues that the insurgent movement was founded on, have and are being correct even now, these changes came about from insurgents that decided to work from within the system but are you too blind to see this, have you traveled down the path you have chosen so far that even though you realize it is the wrong way, you refuse to

turn around, out of pure pride?

I believe now; even though, I have pointed out the true of the matter that you will refuse to see it and continue on you murderous path.

Wake up, the things that your fore fathers have fought for have been won, just open your eyes and see for yourself.

Karl Wolf

ECV Hammer of God

Epsilon Battle Group

15th EarthCOM Planetary Force

"When it comes down to it, Earth is first and everyone else can go to hell."

</RP>

[This message has been edited by Karl Wolf (edited 11-25-98).]

[Guest Strategist]

{RP on}

Unfortunately, Commander Hasenau's mentality seems to be spread throughout the ICV. Shoot first, why bother asking questions later? This form of behavior explains the very reason why ICV cannot take on their grievances in a peaceful, civilized manner. When they should be running for office in a political movement, they instead attack militarily using the "plight of the people" slogan.

Looking back to the late 20th century, many of the nations used what was then referred to as communism in order to control their people. Many groups fought for their freedom by attacking the government. Most were crushed and unsuccessful. Only after the world-wide political structure began to change did these communist countries begin to waver in their resolve. Most made the change towards democracy and helped to improve the freedom of their people. By giving them a chance to vote and elect new officials to govern their people.

After a time, all of the nations came together to form the UFN, the United FREE Nations. Free, not oppressed or controlled, but free. The primary goal of the Insurgents, around 2334 was to cripple the operations of Earthcom in order to try and force the UFN to disband them. To what end? To replace the Earthcom forces with another military establishment? Without the protection of Earthcom and eventually the GCV, where would Earth be today? A colony or salve pen for some advanced alien race? It's been almost seven hundred years and where is the ICV today? What have they really gained?

One ICV commander said to look at history. Aye, look back and see what military insurrection has gained the ICV. I say they should learn from their mistakes and take on a political agenda instead of a military one that has failed them to date. Particularly if they are so right. If they were, the "people" of Earth, those electing the UFN officials, would have spoken out in their votes.

No, the problem is not Earthcom nor the GCV, it's the mentality of the ICV and their clouded judgement of what is in the best interest of Earth and its people. They appear nothing more than anarchists and zealots eager for a fight. Personally, I think that Earthcom and the GCV have ignored the threat long enough and its time to take the fight directly to the ICV and once and for all remove the tick, head and all.

{RP off}

[Alun]

<RP ON>

If only EarthCom and Galcom could get along, maybe that would happen, till then, it's not very likely. If they ever get along, and you do take the fight to us, we welcome you in to your death with open arms. Beware, the Insurgents are not a force to be reckoned with! You mess with us and your kicking a bee's nest. Though some of us may die, we will surely take all of you along with us!

You will never fully be rid of us till the UFN mends their ways. Then, and only then, will we stop fighting.

<RP OFF>

I'm glad everybody started joining in.

Later all.

[Charles Lindsey]

{RP} ON

Commander Khir'san. You can't argue my points? You just sweep them aside? Very atypical. Was that the Professor in you? "It must not exist, so therefore I will ignore it." Or is that the Galcom in you? "Galcom says they are terrorists out for money and power therefore it must be true. The UFN says that Insurgents are outlaws and insubordinates so it must be so. Therefore I will ignore them. Earthcom says they are pirates and marauders so therefore I will ignore anything they have to say." Ignoring us will be your downfall in more ways than one.

Did you not know that Pirates and Raiders routinely disguise themselves as insurgents to keep the blame away from themselves? Or has Earthcom and Galcom conveniently kept this fact to themselves? It sems this is true. A rare act of solidarity for these groups considering the jealously between them.

No raid has been conducted by Insurgents on innocent civilians that I am aware of. Anyone I find doing this will be reported to Rattler and dealt with. I will be proud to serve on the tribunal that tries them. Any other Commander I know would be proud to perform this service also. I am confident in that.

We have proven time and time again that the UFN is not acting in the best interests of the people. What proof have you that we do not? Calling us murderers and terrorists does not prove it so. Calling us power hungry does not prove it so. Making us out as Land Barons of ancient Earth does not prove it so. What arguments can you put forth that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are power hungry zealots out to remake Earth's government into simply another dictatorship? We are not.

And who has the right to quote communism? Do you not remember that even those ancient communists had elections? That they had a constitution? That they mimicked democracy to the point of a Shakesperean tragic comedy? But it was a one party state. Only those meant to be in power were offered to the people. It is not a far stretch to beleive in a two party state run totally by the government. Two promising candidates are slated for promotion. They are offered in a seeming democratic election and the one with the best PR skills and manuvering abilities is elected thus being promoted and ensuring the UFN always has fresh meat to further it's tragedies. Sure you have elections but choosing the lesser of two evils is not much choice. The people choose but what choice do they really have?

Earth caused it's own problems as it always has. Knowledge is good. The search for knowledge is good. But the desire for instant knowledge is not. The attempt for instant knowledge is not. The disregard for resources while trying to acheive instant knowledge is not. Yes Earth or should I say Earth's government, the UFN, has caused all of Earth's problems. Then it compounds them by allying themselves with rather shady characters. Are the Empirians and Vesperons really Earth's friends?

Some of you are admitting the Earthcom's and the UFN's mistakes and claiming everything is all better now. Insurgent Brothers! Throw down your arms and come back to the fold! Yeah right. Show us proof. Show proof that everything is better. Has the ozone level on Earth risen one bit? Have you stopped totally subsidizing alien embassies on Earth? I know government. I know how budgets work. Do you not believe they would milk Earth for everything it had to offer, and then some, to save a few budget dollars? Everything is all better. Earth is still being soaked for all it's worth. Resources and manpower. Take care to watch the cash register while trying to mind the store.

So who's mentality is wrong?

Commander Chavik

ICV Phoenix

<RP> OFF

Phew! I hope I covered everyone. LOL you guys give a good fight.

Alun you did good from what I saw. And I know you posted while I was writing this. So I guess I'll have to answer/defend that when I see it.

Khir'san, you are quite welcome. We'll have anyone who will join in on the fun. And you seem to have joined in wholeheartedly.

T.C. Welcome back again! LOL good arguments.

I love it but you guys wear me out every time. So ya'll have fun. Glad you like these threads.

I'm glad everyone does.

Commander Chavik

ICV Phoenix

[Guest Ron Wallin]

[rp]

I will not repeat what my brother, Chavik, made clear earlier. However, I can not stand silent while Karl continues to twist fact to serve his fiction. In order that the record be set strait (I seem to do this with one EarthCOM rep or another every time talks begin anew) following is a direct quote from approved UFN documents:

quote:

---

Meanwhile, the InsurgentsÔÇÖ conflicts with EARTHCOM and the UFN persisted. The alliances formed with alien nations, the allocation of Earth resources for the maintenance of the resident aliens, and the expenses associated with the space exploration program were all factors that perpetuated the rift. The Earth was still threatened by a depleting ozone layer and yet the UFN had failed to address the problem, instead choosing to continue allocation of resources to space research and the subsidizing of alien nations.

In an effort to save face, the UFN officially declared the Insurgents an outlaw organization in 2965 . All the organizationÔÇÖs assets were seized and most members put in confinement at EARTHCOM prison facilities on Earth, Mars, and special colonies on the Moon. (bc3kman.pdf p.20)

---

I direct EVERYONE again to the UFN authorized words. Karl, where does it say that a bombings, etc., took out officials and caused UFN to declare the insurgents outlaws? The document clearly states that UFN couldn't or wouldn't (we'll never know) acknowledge its wrongdoing and decided it was best to brush aside the legal claims of the Insurgents and continue its financial and technological dealings with alien races.

Perhaps UFN has changed its ways. But our experience has shown they've only found better ways to hide them. That aside, our cause, the cause of the current Insurgent forces, is against the status quo that your orginization represents and works to perpetuate.

Karl, your words are proof that EarthCOM desires to change history. The why's cannot be proven here, but understand that we know. However, we can prove your lies! In this war, Karl, EarthCOM will not win.

You are correct that we are not the same Insurgents of many years ago. What you will not acknowledge is that our ranks are made up of GALCOM and EarthCOM expatriates. Our reasons for leaving the service of UFN varries with each individual. But there is one common thread connecting them all.

We have each witnessed illegal actions of different degrees that were simply intollerable. Ask yourself, Karl: What would it take for me to leave EarthCOM? You may reply 'nothing' but if you're honest with yourself you will then understand why the Insurgents exist.

I can only hope that you will never need go through what we have, but if you do we will welcome you whole heartedly. It is my theory, however, that you've already been witness and cause to those same attrocities. Why else would you knowingly speak of things you know to be false? Here's the answer: POWER! Were the Insurgents working toward that same goal you and yours would be dead and burried long ago.

Never forget Karl, the Insurgents have the truth to fall back on. You, sir, have only the vapor of your own breath. Watch closely that you don't fall. No one will be there to catch you!

Cmdr. Akira

ICV Nermore

Spectre Fleet

Base Commander, The Dojo

Raven

[This message has been edited by Ron Wallin (edited 11-26-98).]

[Guest]

<RP>

Akira, the only illegal acts you have wittness are mostly like video taken some 35 years ago. As for myself I have never seen or participated in any acts of abuse of power.

Rebels face it the reasons you are fighting this rebellion are radacilous at best. Are you really waging a war of terror and aggression to save the ozone? Or is it because of crimes that happened over 35 years ago? Now that's a good one, killing to save the ozone layer. But, I don't think so, I think, you are only using these excuses to cover up your own personal agendas and that's to accumulate power and to line your pockets with as many credits as you can.

You rebels may say, well we are fighting to keep the UFN from giving away all of Earth's resources but that isn't the case, for it is a proven fact that most of the minerals collected are mined off world, on other planets, and that's why each and every starship is equiped with mining drones. So tell me the reasons you are waging this war again? Tell me why you continue to attack and kill your fellow humans? Some of you may have started out with the best of intentions but face it, the causes that you started fighting for just aren't there anymore, the ozone is being repaired, minerals are being mined off world, and the people that commited crimes some 35 years ago have either been forced out of the service or have died. Now tell me, what are you fighting for again?

If you have anymore reasons why you are waging a war against Earth be sure to state them, for the reasons you had just aren't reasons anymore.

Karl Wolf

ECV Hammer of God

Epsilon Battle Group

15th EarthCom Planetary Force

"When it comes down to it, Earth is first and everyone else can go to Hell."

</RP>

[This message has been edited by Karl Wolf (edited 11-27-98).]

[Guest Ron Wallin]

[rp]

Karl, I will provide you with all the proof you need. However, this non-post, statement twisting must end.

If you want to know why I joined this cause you can read my statement at http://www.theshop.net/ronw/1.htm . The names have been changed to protect the sources. But I doubt that you don't already know about this incident!

Oh, wait, my XO has brought me your statement from the future: (As written by Karl W) Akira, that story is unfounded and lacks any proof. Blah, Blah, Blah, EarthCOM would never wipe out yada, yada, yada, just to get one man. Dribble, Dribble, Dribble, lies and you can't prove any of the ... We will deny to the end ... that planet had its own ozone why would we need to destroy it?.. (message continues with EarthCOM dogma meant to control the mindless).

Enjoy the read!

Cmdr. Akira

ICV Nevermore

[/rp]

[Charles Lindsey]

{RP} ON (Almost forgot these, did for a while}

Commander Wolf,

You ask why we are fighting. That has been explained before. You also ask why we continue. That has also been explained.

But let's see. You now say Earth's minerals are mined offworld. Fair enough. We know this. Space and it's heavenly bodies are rich in resources. What commander hasn't put down a mining drone or two on an out of the way moon or planet too mine the richness? To keep himself going when he is far from home? None.

But if those resources are mined using Earth's equipment and Earth's people and Earth's time do they not then belong to Earth? We (Rather Earth since we no longer live there) are now capable of mining an entire solar system. Space travel is convenient if a touch expensive. All these points I concede to you. Yet the ozone layer is only a symptom. A symptom of a much bigger problem. One the UFN still denies and does nothing about.

But those are not the only problems. Earthcom's crimes go back hundreds of years. As do the UFN's. 35 years ago we were declared outlaws for all our previous actions.

Last I heard we were still outlaws. That alone is worth fighting for. Outlawed because we were proving the UFN incorrect in it's actions and policies. Outlawed because our ancestors bucked the status quo and wanted to change things.

You are asking what we are fighting for. Those points I mentioned are exactly what we are fighting for. The crimes against Earth, the crimes against us, and the crimes against humanity.

So Earthcom has changed? We will have to see. Maybe things are getting better but they are not fixed yet. Do not pretend that a few token actions will prove everything is fine.

But I don't see that the UFN has changed one bit. Should we be offered amnesty we would have to think about it. But it would take an official offer from the UFN itself. An offer to participate in government. Not take it over; just participate. The UFN will certainly not want to disband Earthcom but major changes would have to take place.

Wars are fought over land, religion, or rights. Our rights have been crushed and you wonder why we fight.

Commander Chavik

ICV Phoenix

{RP} OFF

I'm thinking a political science major could have fun in here. And Akira, thanks for the support as always.

Let me assure everyone this is roleplay. I will use any opening I can within the roleplay tags to refute your character's arguments.

Everyone is welcome to roleplay and will be welcomed as a BC3K gamer outside of roleplay. So jump right in!

[This message has been edited by Charles Lindsey (edited 11-28-98).]

[Guest]

<RP>

Akira, you have quite a fanciful imagination. I rather enjoyed the story a great deal, you could make quite a name for yourself writting fiction. If you write any more good stories be sure to send them to me for they make for good bedtime reading.

Chavik, as I've stated before yes your organizatoin was outlawed but for good reason, if you go back and look at the history your passive movement became violent with clashes between EarthCom and Insurgents, now what goverment wouldn't outlaw a organization that openly preached insurrection and that had became a mence to the public and to goverment officals.

Some of Earth's greatest politcal and social changes have been made through non violent movements. Two of Earth's most profound leaders for change was Mahatma Gandhi, and Dr. Martin Luther King. Both of these men used non violent means to change their countries in ways that would have effects far into the future. Now can you name one terriost organization that was ever able to positively affect change in their country or planet? I think not.

Think about the course you have all chosen for it is a path that leads only to dashed hopes and dreams.

Karl Wolf

ECV Hammer of God

Epsilon Battle Group

15th EarthCom Planetary Force

"When it comes down to it, Earth is first and everyone else can go to Hell."

</RP>

Hey Akria, that was a pretty good story. I did enjoy it, you might want to consider writting a short story and if you do be sure to tell me so I can be one of the first ones to read it.

[Guest Locke1]

{RP}

"Now can you name one terriost organization that was ever able to positively affect change in their country or planet? "

hehe, please :

1. The Third Estate in the French Revolution

2. The American Colonists in the American Revolution

3. Every Latin American Country that fought for independence from Spain or France

4. L'Ouverture's rebellion freeing Haiti

5. Texas vs. Mexico

6. Mexico vs. Spain

Need I go on? Please feel free to add to the list fellow Insurgents, there are many more but my mind is a little slow right now

The Fact is, Wolf, that every one of the groups above were considered "Rebels," or "Insurgents," or even "terrorists" by the oppressors they fought against. Sadly, I see that Galcom and Earthcom no longer teach history to their recruits, only UFN propaganda.

{RP off}

Commander Locke

ICV At All Costs

Spectre Fleet

[Guest Oliver]

<RP>

Good evening, Gentlemen

Well said, Cmdr. Locke.

But to me the entire GalCOM/EarthCOM armed forces seem like a big spoiled child. I child whose playmate just went away with the words "You are a *******!". And now this child is going to beat him for one of the other guys rights. His right to choose his playmates. But that little spoiled ******* doesn't want the other guy to have rights. He's gotta play wiht him and keep him entertained. If he doesn't... Well he's expendable, aint he?

A slap in that spoiled kid's face should help getting him back to reality.

Yours,

O. Hasenau

ICV Vengeance

"Dead men tell no tales"

[Guest]

Note: This is not under RP :-)

Locke:

That was a great reply :-) Though I'd like to add to your post that the South American "rebellions" were, to the best of my knowledge, only 2. The Spanish colonies were liberated by Simon Bolivar while the Portuguese controlled nations got their independence another way (note: I THINK they also rebelled, thats why I said 2 rebellions, but I'm not sure..any Brazilian here that may shed some light on this matter?).

-Tac-

[Guest]

<RP>

Locke, all of those revolutionary movements you mentioned all did succeed but they also enjoyed the support and backing of the populace. And I don't think I see the masses of Earth rising up to overthrow the government. So again I ask, what terrorist organization you know of has achieved victory.

And believe me, by any ones definition you all are terrorist not revolutionaries. You're not fighting a conventional war where by you fight to gain land or strategic targets but instead you strike from the shadows, attacking convoys and killing all and then you run back to shadows waiting for your next victims. So don't paint yourselves as revolutionaries when in fact you are only murderers and thieves.

Karl Wolf

ECV Hammer of God

Epsilon Battle Group

15th EarthCom Planetary Force

"When it comes down to it, Earth is first and everyone else can go to Hell."

</RP>

[This message has been edited by Karl Wolf (edited 11-30-98).]

[Guest Locke1]

{RP}

Listen up you whipped cur that calls himself a Wolf : I respect your brainwashed emasculate hide enough to spell your name, which isn't even worthy of my curse for you are as feeble an opponent as I have ever had, Correctly. Now, I would appreciate the same from you, though I don't really expect it as the only thing your kind understands about respect and honor is that they are unnecessary qualities in a Galcom or Earthcom Commander, not nearly as important as a blind eye to injustice or a quick trigger finger towards the weak and innocent.

{RP off}

hehe, no insult intended Karl it's just that that's the third time, i believe, that you've butchered my name in some way. hehe, though I think Loki, the first time, was kind of funny.

Commander L-o-c-k-e

ICV At All Costs

Spectre Fleet

[Guest Locke1]

{RP}

All Revolutionary movements start small Wolf, the backing of the full populace doesn't come over night. It slowly grows, and grows, as we Insurgents are, until what started out as a snowflake of discontent, a touch of hesitation and uncertainty about the government, turns into a full blown avalanche. Behold the avalanche Wolf, there are more Insurgents now than ever before, and there will be more tomorrow than there are today. Our movement is growing exponentially Wolf, so tremble in fear, for you are at the bottom of that avalanche.

Commander Locke

ICV At All Costs

Spectre Fleet

{Rp off}