Chris Blair Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 I just want to ask one qustion. How do you start out at the begining if you can answer the question, so I have a little idea?------------------ UCV"Ticonderoga" CMDR:Chris Blair Don't underestimate what you don't or even thank that you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Blair, What does your latest post have to do with Fleet Proposals? If you can answer that, I won't throw you in the brig. You're on the clock. ------------------ Rattler, Spectre, Insurgent One Official BC3K Tester [email protected] ICQ 12894104Just Doin' What I can with What I got! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Lindsey Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Chris, Did you want it explained better? Is that what I'm reading in that post? I'm sorry I didn't understand.If we are down to how we are using a sig and where I think we are doing grand! Chris, if you are playing on a multiplay server you can be anything you want. You must use those game races and castes that are allowed. That will be obvious I think by simple click choices on what you want to be. If you get into a good squadron or a persistent squadron then want to choose a sig to use on the forum you would use the Commander (your commander's name) Race/caste (of those allowed) UCV (ship name) (squad) (quote or motto)style of a signature. If you are already in a fleet you would most likely want to use that signature. I know I will. But whatever you do be consistent. That would be important I think to be taken seriously. Above all SC was asking if this was fair to all sides. Does it seem fair to you?------------------ Commander Chavik ICV Phoenix "We Shall Arise From The Ashes" Official BC3K Tester [This message has been edited by Charles Lindsey (edited 08-16-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Blair Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Hehe sorry Rattler yes I was on subject, and the question had to do with how we do choos who we are. I am sorry if I had decived you.Charles-Now yes in a way I did want it explained better but thank you for noticing that and you did in your last post explained thang's even better, and no it isn't that I don't get it but it would help if anyone would go in sequence when they try to explain thangs.Thanks all...PS: O and by the way how do you like ny new sig.?------------------ UCV"Ticonderoga" CMDR:Chris Blair Don't underestimate what you don't or even thank that you know... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Hi all!Haven't read these threads for a couple of days. To the person who asked whether they could play as a Merc but stay affiliated as a Fleet - no, you can't. Mercenaries are a different caste to Terran Military, which is what most of the fleets are.however, if your fleet leader wished to RP you in as someone they hired, that is permissible. But don;t try signing off as Such and such UCV Such and such Terran / Mercenary Wraith FleetBecause the last two entires just don't work.As far as the suggestion that people who sign off on a different caste are automatically out of a fleet, let's not be too hasty. As I pointed out above, fleet and MP designations CAN contradict each other - and this should be avoided - but it's permissible for one player to RP as one character and play as another. As long as they don't try and mix the two in RP posts, I don't think there'll be a problem.Chris - where are you from? English isn't your first language, is it? We're having trouble understanding your posts. If you want to ask me any questions directly, email me at [email protected].------------------ Commander DeSylva GCV First Light ISS01 -=- ISS Fleet Coordinator www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss/ Official BC3K Tester and Blind Man With Sleeves award winner "Serve - with honour." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Chris, I stand corrected. I just didn't see where you were coming from. Your Signature is fine by me. ------------------ Rattler, Spectre, Insurgent One Official BC3K Tester [email protected] ICQ 12894104Just Doin' What I can with What I got! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Lindsey Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 Looks like we are circling the same peice of wood, we just haven't nailed it yet. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted August 16, 1999 Author Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 All sigs (MP or not) should be in the form quote: Commander (your commander's name) Race/caste (of those allowed) UCV (ship name) (squad) (quote or motto)If you are part of a fleet, then the race/caste is not relevant because you are assumed to be a Military caste. You most definitely cannot be a different race other than Terran, Empirian, Vesperon if you are part of an official GALCOM fleet because those are the only 3 races that are part of GALCOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 In RP, I'd suggest that all races / castes be allowed, as long as the people playing them stay faithful to what is in the manual. For an MP signature, of course a person is pissing in the wind if they try and sign off as a Gammulan, because they're not playable (as far as I know).So I see no reason why I couldn't sign off in the RP forum asGarth Mane Gammulan/Military UCV Shulan's Axe "For the greater glory of the greater race!"However, I'd have to be playing a Gammulan at the time. Notice I left out the Squadron line? Because this is a RP sig and not a MP sig. If someone tried to pass them off as an MP Gammulan, then they are incorrect. If I was using that as a multiplayer signature, of course, I could be pulled up and spoken too, because there ARE no Gammulans in multiplayer (that are playable, anyway).That's my suggestion. No limits in RP unless the person is taking too many liberties based on what is in the manual. We have a core of dedicated RP'ers who can monitor this. What do the rest of you think?------------------ Commander DeSylva GCV First Light ISS01 -=- ISS Fleet Coordinator www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss/ Official BC3K Tester and Blind Man With Sleeves award winner "Serve - with honour." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Siemens Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 DCV (Designated Command Vessel), as Derek suggested, in this case? (Because it's military.)Greetings.------------------ Joe Gudihl, GCV-Dark Star (Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series) Commander, Marauders Wing =Wraith Fleet= "Remember, we are trained professionals... Don't try this at home!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynx Pherrett Posted August 16, 1999 Report Share Posted August 16, 1999 quote: You can create any sort of squadron you want and of any race or caste in the game itself. If you want to be a Gammulan Raider, thats fine, just remember that you won't then be able to join any or create an official fleet because traditionally, only military structures, ie, Gammulan Military, have a disciplined fleet structure. I will more than likely authorize a Gammulan Military fleet and give them their own station and designation in the game and mp world, than a bunch of Gammulan raiders; for obvious reasons.So,Regnad Kcin Gammulan/Raider UCV Death's Mistress Kciwrah's Headhunters "Revenge is a dish best served cold."fits the bill.------------------ Cmdr Pherrett GCV-STRATOS Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series [email protected] "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" -- George Santayana"You got to change your evil ways" --Carlos Santana[This message has been edited by Lynx Pherrett (edited 08-16-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 I'm more confused now than I ever was! Seems that I'm trying to serve more than one master here, and I'm just not going to do it. All I want to know is: 1) Outside this RP Forum, Can a member sign in as Gammulan Raider? 2) Outside this RP Forum, Will there be reprocussions should a member chose any caste that he desires and start posting under that guise? 3) Am I just too dense to see the forest for the trees? I have yet to see the SC authorize any development of Gammulans, etc; and accordingly, no one should be infringing into those areas until he gives the all clear. All I have seen to date is his allowance for single entities to claim the UCV designation for their ships, leaving them to be non affiliated with those fleets already in existance.Somebody throw me a life line here! I'm getting tired of treading water. ------------------ Rattler, Spectre, Insurgent One Official BC3K Tester [email protected] ICQ 12894104Just Doin' What I can with What I got! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted August 17, 1999 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 LOL, I'm just as confused as you are Rattler. RPG is DeSylva's baby, so I'll wait for him to post before I pitch in....and make it even more confusing. Yes, Lynx, that is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 Alright, let's see if I can clear this up. I am posting from an on-campus computer lab, so if this is even more confusing, fear not - I'll clear it up tonight. quote:I'm more confused now than I ever was! Seems that I'm trying to serve more than one master here, and I'm just not going to do it. All I want to know is: 1) Outside this RP Forum, Can a member sign in as Gammulan Raider? 2) Outside this RP Forum, Will there be reprocussions should a member chose any caste that he desires and start posting under that guise? 3) Am I just too dense to see the forest for the trees? I have yet to see the SC authorize any development of Gammulans, etc; and accordingly, no one should be infringing into those areas until he gives the all clear. All I have seen to date is his allowance for single entities to claim the UCV designation for their ships, leaving them to be non affiliated with those fleets already in existance. Somebody throw me a life line here! I'm getting tired of treading water.1) Outside of this RP forum, or in it, a player can sign in as whatever the hell they want. As long as it is game-consistent, and if it isn't, then it is up to other players and posters whether they want to make an issue of it. Sigs should conform to the format Derek has put forward (I'll be altering mine shortly).HOWEVERPlayers who post using their own squadrons SHOULD be aware they will not be accorded the same privileges that players under the auspices of a Fleet have. They are simply not as powerful. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a player who is not a member of a recognised fleet could be over-ridden, if they posted something to a RP thread, by a fleet member.2) No. I see no reason why. Unless what they are postoing is wildly inconsistent with the manual.3) Is the SC going to have time to approve the development of every single race and caste in this game? I don't think so. The players have the manual. If I had my way (hint hint SC *grin*) I'd be helping write the BC3020AD backstory, as well as expanding the racial histories, to give them plenty to work with. After that, players can use the histories they are given to create squadrons and RP different races and castes.This is my thinking. Follow up or mail me with suggestions or comments.------------------ Commander DeSylva GCV First Light ISS01 -=- ISS Fleet Coordinator www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss/ Official BC3K Tester and Blind Man With Sleeves award winner "Serve - with honour." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattler Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 'Tis my right to do so, and I strongly oppose your position here Michael. If we do it your way, we might as well scrap the Commander's Roster and start all over again. That's not a pretty thought. You are mixing RP with Overall Website issues here. Maybe you should re-think this issue. I'll be a good Commander and follow the orders given, but I think we make a big mistake here. The inclusion of additional casts, ie; Raiders, Traders, etc; are geared and aimed at BC3020AD. At least that's the way I understand it. We're trying to run before we've learned to crawl. At present time, I personally can only see UCV "Ship's Name Here" as a substitute for ECV, GCV, and ICV. Maybe I'm still lost in the trees, but I don't see the way out yet. ------------------ Rattler, Spectre, Insurgent One Official BC3K Tester [email protected] ICQ 12894104Just Doin' What I can with What I got! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 Your point is taken, Rattler.The Commander's Roster has been plagued with troubles from the beginning! What we REALLY need is a CGI script that will maintain a database and allow players to edit their information at well. But I aint doing that...*grin*.Most players will naturally gravitate towards a "playable" race and caste combination based on what is playable in BC3020AD.So here is my (new, thanks to Rattler's post) take on the situation.An individual player has a right to sign off as anything they want. We can't police this. I could sign all of my posts with Grand Poobah, Toastmaster's Fleet, and you couldn't really stop me. You could come down real heavily on me, like you did Parias when he first started, but whether or not that is productive depends on the situation.Hopefully, all players would have read the histories in the manual; at least, for the side they wanted to play; and would sign off with a signature that is consistent with the game.To be taken seriously, and to sign any official roster like the Commander's Roster for BC3020AD, the player is going to have to restrict his or her choices to those currently being considered, which will be Terran only, and the castes GALCOM, EarthCOM, Raider, Insurgent, and Trader/Commercial. These are, of course, subject to change before the final game comes out.On the RP forum, however, players have the opportunity to play castes and races that are not playable in the game. After all, that's what we did with the Insurgents. _I_ would have been signing off as a Gammulan as well, Rattler, and I see no reason why we can't do that now. None at all. It can only benefit the game by allowing dedicated players to expand on what the manual tells us. No, we can;t create new fleets; we can't create massive player organisations; but we CAN choose races and castes from the game to role-play as in the RP forum, and we CAN create squadrons in multiplayer.As far as the overall website issues you are citing, I'm not entirely sure if I understand, because I don't see any issues. A valid MP signature would be anything from the Terran castes mentioned above. A valid RP signature would be anything from the game. To try and restrict the things that people can role-play as would be to restrict the opportunities that made the Insurgents so powerful. I'm sure you understand that. So to try and answer your questions again...1) Point taken. You are suggesting that allowing players to sign in as anything other than a playable caste will cause website problems. I personally don't think it will. So what if someone signs on as Garth Bane, Gammulan Military. Why should their choice of who they support be restricted? What purpose would restricting it serve? So it means that there'd have to be a lot of options in the Commander's Roster. Two drop down boxes - Race and Caste. A third, if you want to get really technical, called Fleet. Or, if you don't want people to be able to register under any race or caste, simply limit their options on the Commander's Roster to the ones playable in the game. Won't stop them from posting as a Gammulan Military if they want, though. I see no real reason to try and police this. Try and convince me. Or get the SC to tell me otherwise. That'll change my mind real quick...*grin*.2)Once more, I see no reason why not. Who does it really hurt? What issues can you hit me with? What damage am I causing if I start posting as Garth Mane, Gammulan Military? None that I can see. So I'll have to register as a different race/caste on the Roster if you want to restrict it. Too bad. But I can still post from any point of view that I wish. Rather than damaging anything, I'll be furthering the status of the Gammulans.3)I quote, from the second posting in this thread by the SC... quote: You can create any sort of squadron you want and of any race or caste in the game itself. If you want to be a Gammulan Raider, thats fine, just remember that you won't then be able to join any or create an official fleet because traditionally, only military structures, ie, Gammulan Military, have a disciplined fleet structure. I will more than likely authorize a Gammulan Military fleet and give them their own station and designation in the game and mp world, than a bunch of Gammulan raiders; for obvious reasons. I take this to mean there is nothing stopping me posting as:Commander Garth Mane Gammulan / Military DCV Shulan's Glory "For the greater glory of the greater race!"OR:Commander Gareth DeSylva Terran / Trader UCV "Winds of Fortune" "Still serving with honour".OR:Commander Diriga T'Kan Vesperon / Raider UCV "Kira's Dreaming" "Vanqish our enemies!"The first and third are not playable in the game, but they ARE perfectly valid parts of the game as far as role-playing is concerned.To summarise again, I see no problems with allowing players to sign off as any race or caste. I don't see how it can damage anything - the history of the game is set in stone and unassailable; but it may just add something to this universe. And that couldn't possibly be a bad thing.I also think we're getting a little too technical about "MP sigs" and "RP sigs". A very good friend once taught me that the quickest way to destroy something was to make it overly technical. A person has a forum signature. As long as it is consistent with the game, let it lie. If they try creating new races, castes, or fleets, then inform them their sig is not correct. If they create new squadrons, let them do so. If they want to vry their signature depending on whether they are posting in the RP forum or elsewhere, let them do so. Once more, I don't see a problem with this.I am not authoritarian about this. So if you have any suggestions or modifications to this, especially you, Rattler, and the rest of your trusted RP band, then post them here.Commander DeSylva Terran / Trader UCV "Winds of Fortune" "Serve...with Honour" Official BC3K Tester and Blind Man with Sleeves award winner.[This message has been edited by DeSylva (edited 08-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Siemens Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 quote:You are mixing RP with Overall Website issues here. IMHO there is no problem with that. This site heavily develops towards BC3020AD (we may get multiplayer even sooner) and this discussion is about multiplayer squads (i.e. clans). RPing is a game of make belive, so I, personally, have no problems to "be" a gammulan raider even when I am limited to the GALCOM battlecruiser. I could even make up some story about how it comes that I can fly exactly this ship and not a, say, starcruiser. (I could have stolen it, like in the Insurgent FF.) If we strictly limit people to only using GALCOM signs (or the like), and only flying Galactan class battlecruisers (we don't, I remember some people, i.e. Tac, claiming to fly a Constellation class bc), we would limit the game and scare people off. I would like you to read the first posting in this thread again, there is a lot of good sense and reasoning in it IMHO, especially in the paragraphs two and three. Therefore I would like to follow DeSylva's suggestions. quote:We're trying to run before we've learned to crawl. Heheh, think about it as learning to swim: you get how to do it, or you drown. Greetings.------------------ Joe Gudihl, GCV-Dark Star (Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series) Commander, Marauders Wing =Wraith Fleet= "Remember, we are trained professionals... Don't try this at home!"P.S.: Michael, you have outrun me answering Rattler's posting, heheh. I only hope I have not contraditced both you oppinions, don't want to throw some third one in. [This message has been edited by Thomas Siemens (edited 08-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 *laugh* Right now, I think we're drowning. Rattler is more experienced than me in this universe, so I will of course pay careful attention to any suggestions he makes.Any CGI experts out there want to knock up a simple "Roster" type script? I've been investigating DB scripts out there that allow users to add entries and edit only their own entries, but my CGI/Perl knowledge is sadly lacking.I just see no real reason to police this issue at all. All games put up with other players trying to hijack the history, or even worse, people who post with names from othger universes, such s the ever present Star Wars, Star Trek, and Freespace clones. Trying to quash this isn;t going to work. To quote from Star Wars myself..."The more you tighten your grip, Vader, the more starsystems will slip through your fingers".The harder we try and police this, the harder it will get. Especially when, in my not-so-humble opinion (IMNSHO) we simply don't need to.What does everyone else think?------------------ Commander DeSylva GCV First Light ISS01 -=- ISS Fleet Coordinator www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss/ Official BC3K Tester and Blind Man With Sleeves award winner "Serve - with honour." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Siemens Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 [CHATTER] quote:in my not-so-humble opinion (IMNSHO) Am I trying to be too humble, or what? [/CHATTER] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxamillian Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 DeSylva- I understand that the Mercenary must stand alone with the UCV- for their designation. To survive MP, the merc would have to aline themselves with a fleet or others of their kind. A squadron of raiders could take out all the single players on the board. It would be like a gang of toughs taking your lunch money everytime you went to school. There would be very few single players left if they aren't allowed to affiliate themselves with an established fleet. This makes sense does it not?'MAX'------------------ Cmdr. Maxamillian (MAX) GCV-Dreadnaught ICQ#34741 GALCOMPRIME Shipsmotto: "Retreat? Hell!"[This message has been edited by Maxamillian (edited 08-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Wallin Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 It's obvious that a lot of people are confused. Unfortunately, it's the fault of the "old gaurd" of gamers, like myself, that didn't speak up quiet effectively enough to curb this chaos. The following should help everyone understand what is, what will be, and what is wanted to be.First, what is:We visited this confusion on the old sight when everyone had their idea of what the Roleplay structure should be. Like now, it was extreme chaos. Fortunately, everything was worked out and we ended up with the current structure.First we have the IFF designations:ICV (Insurgents) GCV (GALCOM) ECV (EarthCOM)--- sig layout --- Cmdr. Joe Player ICV-Shipname Fleet Position, Sub Organization Additional Stuff "quote" ---------------------- example --- Cmdr. Joe Player GCV-Vladimyer Wraith Fleet Commander, Marauders Wing Member, Jade Dragon "I'm the very model of a modern Major General..." -----------That meant that everyone had to work for one of the three major Terran org's. But that didn't mean you could be any part of that org. For instance, the only organized military group withing the Insurgents is Spectre. If you wanted to be an Insurgent you played within the bounds of Spectre Fleet.Much was the same for EarthCOM. Only GALCOM had more than one major fleet and only because each fleet served a different purpose. The ISS was to be geared more towards getting supplies and protection where it was needed. Orion was originally intended to be the elite strong arm of GALCOM. Wraith was to be Fleet on the bleeding edge of the struggle against the Gammulans (covert and almost always behind enemy lines).One of the beauties of this structure was that it allowed for much creativity while keeping things organized enough so that everyone knew where they stood in the greater scheme of things. Sub groups of the fleets mutated from their parents and became something more than anyone could have imagined at the begining. However, it was a structure that was closely linked to a crude combination of the history within the BC Universe and what a gamer would actually experience within the game.So, you could, after certian updates, play as GALCOM or Insurgent. The gamer could imagine him/herself as the character portrayed on the RolePlay forum. As it was then, the game is changing. As it did then, the RolePlay aspect that was based in part in the actual gameplay, is going to change as well.Since this is the RolePlay forum I will stick with RolePlay changes. The game will soon allow for greater flexibillity in the type of role you choose. As such, RolePlay here on the forum is following the games lead. In fact there are already defined "interim" changes in effect.Again as part of what is, there is an approved addition to the structure loosely outlined above:UCV (Undesignated Command Vessel) DCV (Designated Command Vessel) --- sig layout (UCV) --- Joe Player Race/Caste UCV-Ship Name "quote" etc. ----------------- example --- Big Bob Terran/Trader UCV-Rug King "I've got thousands of yards of new and pre-owned rugs and carpets to fill your slammin' BC pad" --------------- sig layout (DCV) --- rank Joe Player Race/Military DCV-Shipname Fleet position, Sub Organization "quote" etc. --------------- example --- Cmdr. Reeshal Ng'ntoth Gammulan/Military DCV-GATTA First Sl'tar Leader, Squadron 90210 "Only humans need crappy quotes to define themselves" ----------- UCV is a temporary IFF designation inteded to denote a ship under the control of a person NOT part of the above grouping and NOT part of a non-Terran military organization. That means a ship with the UCV designation is controled by someone belonging to the Raider, Mercenary, Trader, Assassin, Journalist, and Colonist (those are the ones I remember off the top).DCV is temporary IFF designation to denote a non-Terran military ship. Use of either of these allows a person to take on a role outside the norm but still participate within the bounds of the RP universe."Yep, I know this already. What's the problem?" The confusion lies in "what will be".The cat was let out of the bag about the upcoming Multiplaye capabilities. Innocently enough, players questioned whether they would have to conform to the existing RolePlay structure within the MultiPlayer environment. After many problematic discussions it was determined that "no", a player in MultiPlayer ONLY can call him/herself whatever he/she wants. We can form groups of players into whatever kind of fighting force we want. You and I could get together as Luke Skywalker and Han Solo if we wanted. In short, MultiPlayer is more akin to the Deathmatch play many of us have come to be familiar with in games like Quake1,2,3, Unreal, etc. than like the RolePlay many of us have spent time enjoying.Within Multiplayer, myself (Cmdr. Akira) and other Spectre members can log on as a Spectre Strike Group and kick everyone out of their BC's. Or we could log on as a group of Zentradi, or anything else we desire. So the logic in the MultiPlay arena stands as:--- You can be any existing fleet or squadron in MP (multiplayer) or you can call yourself something else. ---It's a very simple "anything goes" philosophy in MP. But players are still confused. However, a common confusion exists. Where is the line between MP and RP (roleplay)?This is the "what is wanted to be" section of this all too long post. But be patient, and hopefully you will come away with a better understanding of what's going on.Here are the two basic extremes of the theories on the subject:*RP and MP are two seperate entities and should be kept that way.*RP and MP should both be freeform and part of eachother.Cmdr. DeSylva, the person with the loudest voice in the matter wants something closer to the latter. His position is that "any" atempt to put controls on the subject will cause an adverse reaction among the gamers and thusly a negative response to the BC experience. His specific words are "Outside of this RP forum, or in it, a player can sign in as whatever the hell they want." So what is wrong/right about this statement?Let's start with the "right". It allows those that enjoy the BC universe a huge amount of freedom in the way they portray themselves online. No one needs to be concerned with rules or whether they will be "ostracized" from the community if they make a mistake. However, the freedom is the ONLY percievable positive with this process.The negatives are endless. The major problem with such freedom is that the flip side of the coin is chaos. The freedom in MultiPlay works solely because it is NOT a persistant universe based on a defineable history. It is simply you vs. me sometimes with larger numbers. However, MP is NOT RP.The very nature of RolePlay requires that the player take on a persona consistent with the universe he/she is in. Those who enjoy RolePlay know and expect this. But, DeSylva would rather have everyone police themselves in this matter. His words, "...if it isn't {game history consistent}, then it is up to other players and posters whether they want to make an issue of it". In short, ignore it. If you can't, say something about it.This "ignore" what doesn't belong mindset simply does not work. It hasn't worked anywhere else and it wont work here.For instance, a RolePlay event is heavily underway. Then joe player logs on, without reading posts, and completely breaks the story line. We go from Cmdr. Rattler fighting his way out of possible capture by EarthCOM to Han Solo swooping down from above to shoot Darth Vader (the leader of the ECV contingent) and allow for Rattler to escape. I, as moderator, delete the post. The person posts a "why?" message. Someone else tries to explain things before I get back online and makes things worse.---- "You can't do that, it's not consistent with the RP universe." "I can, DeSylva said it was ok to post as whatever I wanted. You should just ignore it." "Here's how things work..." "Nuh, uh, in MP I fought a squadron of DCV Tie fighters..." etc. ---I return to read up on the continuation of the story only to find multiple argumentative posts about a non-issue. Now, I've got to delete the ten or so "yeah, but" threads, request that joe blow be banned from posting, and hope he/she understands. In reality, joe blow gets perturbed by the negative response to his addition to the story line. He bad mouths the RP, BC, etc about the whole thing and gets banned from the site and the main RP server.Now joe player can't continue with his friends in the tournament they were winning on the main MP server, doesn't ever want to play the game again, and begins posting foolishly to the BC3000 newsgroup.Now that is a little extreme, but is the likeliest thing to happen when an "anything goes, but be responsible" attitude is put into place. Oh Ron, you're just cryin' and whinin'.Nope, I have no problem with DeSylva's "anything goes" ideas. I can sit here at my computer and correct "undesirable" posts to RP threads all day.The point that I'm making is that definite bounds need to be set. They need to be easily understood and just as easily enforced. The guidelines set forth by DS when he allowed us to create fleets initially are just the example.DS put into effect that within RP you are Terran. You are a member of one of the Fleets and No New fleets are allowed. Very simple. Very effective. Even though the rules seem restrictive, they really aren't. Read all the posts for the last year on the forum and you'll find that we, the players, accepted the boundaries and exploded onto the scene with ingenuity and immagination no one expected when this all started.Does this mean we need strict rules in place in order to properly enjoy the RolePlay environment? No. But, we do need guidelines.Let's all face it. The question here is not about MultiPlayer. MultiPlayer will simply be the chaos we've all grown to enjoy with other games. The question here is do we allow the chaos from MP to invade RP. I say no.---- This is where my opinion is prevalent ----My theory is that MP and RP are two seperate entities and should be kept that way. Use whatever sig' you want throughout the rest of the site. Advertise/bolster your MP group on the General forum. But the moment you step into RP, you are all about RP.The RP Forum exists for people to enjoy the more imaginary form of BC. It is NOT a place to hang a sign for your MP group. It is a place to develop a character/crew and ship within the history and uiverse that is BC. In that, I agree with DeSylva about being able to RP a character consistent with the BC Universe. Unfortunately, one of the guidelines turned "tradition" is that each player is allowed only one character.I have chosen to develope Cmdr. Akira. When I want to move on, Cmdr. Akira will fade away, or die. I will then create another character and play him/her out to the end. But what does this gain me?Recognition. People know the character "Akira" better than they know Ron Wallin (at least that's what I think ). When I drop Akira and create another character, they will get to know that character. It also keeps me from creating a number of characters by myself. Heck, if I was allowed to RP anything anytime, I could create a vast armada of Gammulan Cmdr.'s write them into a story and proceed to wipe out the lot of you. Sure you could ignore the thread. It would probably even be deleted. But guess what? I wouldn't be alone and my post wouldn't be the last of that type of RP. Once the floodgates are opened and the water poors through, it's impossible to close them again without some type of damage.I propose that these basics do not change. MP and RP are seperate beasts and should be kept that way. Although DeSylva believes that any control will hurt feelings and drive people away from BC, he's wrong. If he was right, no one new would ever try to create anything in the existing RP structure. But the new guys are coming. See the great threads created by Blades, David Foss, twobombs, Badgeriuse, etc.Keep the controls light. Continue the tradition of "one character at a time"; keep the tradition of defection is goodbye (ie, you were GALCOM Prime, you changed your sig to Terran/Merc, your now that until someone hires or acepts your application); keep MP groups out of RP.The last one is kind of a touchy situation. One argument exists: It isn't fair that RP groups can get together in MP, but not vice versa. That's bad logic and bleeding heart! If you allow the MP complete freedom then it's only natural that among the StarWars, Macross, Quake Clans, 8th AF Wings, and any other permutations that a group of friends that belong to the same RP Fleet would log on as that Fleet. Am I saying that MP groups should never be allowed in RP. Again, NO.Providing the MP group has been around the block; has a definite structure; would likely be part of the universe (ie, no X-Wing Wraith Squadrons); and would provide a facet as of yet unrealized in the RP universe (ie, not just another rendition of an existing Fleet) then they should be able to apply for Fleet status or as a squadron extension of an existing fleet.Does this mean that Derek would have to field all these requests? No. Why would he ever need to see any of them unless he wanted. There are enough of us dedicated fans able and willing to form a panel to judge on new applications. Specifically to DeSylva, since you are not going to be around for much of this, I suggest you appoint someone or a group of someones to fill your shoes in this matter ASAP.Well, there's enough of an explanation of these events and more than enough ammo for those of you that disagree. I believe that DeSylva's heart is in the right place (aligned with the present and future gamer) however, I do not agree with many of his ideas or his explanations for them. ----- {added after reading DeSylva's post during my composition}As to the too much control issue, there really isn't too much now and there doesn't need to be. It's not too much to ask that players who wish to RolePlay abide by a few basic guidelines. It's only one Forum out of many with plenty of other areas that MultiPlayer groups can spread their dogma.As for what other "online" games allow, I couldn't care less. What a player does while playing a game is his/her choice (MP or Persistent Universe). However, I've yet to find a RolePlay that doesn't require participants to adhere to some type of structure.DeSylva, you are wrong in thinking that MP and RP must/should be combined in any way. Every gamer understands that the two are different. What happened to cause the differences in your mind to disappear?------------------ Cmdr. Akira ICV Nevermore Spectre, Command Staff Base Commander, The Dojo Official Tester Battlecruiser Series Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacePhish Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 I'm off to bed let me make some comments.Akira, you'r post makes a lot sense to me. MP and RP shouldn't mix. MP is where people will be competing to be fragmasters. RP on the other hand is for the enjoyment of some commander who want to expand their BC3K exprience futher. Recently I been developing a character offline, because I want to join the RP games. I used to play a lot of paper and dice D&D games so I know the basic rules. I want to know what are the restrictions if there are any. I do believe the player can only be a member of terran race, but not nessearly the millitary caste. But say I'm a Galcom officer of a diffrent race(a multiculture thing). I respect and enjoy people's RP posts, so I will try not to screw it up, thus ruining the enjoyment of this great game.Also say I want to join a Galcom military fleet(Orion,Warith,etc...). THen in MP I'm in a completely diffrenct fleet, or caste. Will that be allowed? Or is it going to be if I chose to be a Galcom officer I can only be a galcom officer no matter what game I'm playing.Thanks. [testing testing 1,2,3] CMDR HajaVjes Ugan'Uda GCV "Ship Name" FLEETNAME, position... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Siemens Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 SpacePhish, in MP you can do whatever you want, only limited within the bounds, which are set by whoever starts a server (as in all the other MP games around). This is not about Battlecruiser Online, this is about (small) indipendent servers.Ron, thank you for your posting, it is great! It has been great reading the explanatory first part, and I would agree with you on the second part, at least in parts. MP open, RP restricted to BC history and/or player set bounds. (Your example was somwhat extreme, with Han Solo, heheh. Usually there is some type of GameMaster (GM) who leads (guides) the way a story goes and watches the rules... )Some questions are still open, I fear: will non Terran fleets be allowed (as you suggested in the DCV sig layout and example), and will those "free" UCV signs (with squad addendum) and DCV signs be allowed outside the RP forum? Derek?Greetings.------------------ Commander Joe Gudihl GCV-Dark Star =Wraith Fleet= Commander, Marauders Wing "Remember, we are trained professionals... Don't try this at home!" Official Tester Battlecruiser Series[This message has been edited by Thomas Siemens (edited 08-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpcFX Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 Here are some statements to date, hopefully will help clear the air -The sig issue started when an individual did not want to join any of the available fleets. Derek gave him the option of using the UCV designation with a choice of TERRAN/Caste - I assume Terran was the only choice because it is all that is available with BC3K 2.x. quote:At any rate, in light of these developments, you are now stripped of your GALCOM designation. Please remove the GCV tag from your sig. Since we don't know where you are, I guess you can keep the ship but you are neither GCV nor ECV or even ICV designation. You should use the UCV (Unregistered Command Vessel) tag from now on. That is my ruling. So, next time you post, you should be using UCV-DARK RIFT (Raider) in your sig. You can change the caste to anything you like (other than GALCOM, Earthcom, Military, Insurgent, Diplomat, Police) I only used Raider as an example. There is a new Mercenary caste in BC:3020AD anyway, so, you can use that now if you like. Yes, I just made that whole UCV thing up as I was typing it and have updated the BC:3020AD manuscript accordingly. Anyone not belonging to a fleet, can use this and select any caste they like. You will be able to do the same thing in multiplayer anyway.Supreme Commander D. SmartSince todate, The MP options have not (to my knowledge) been ironed out (the race/caste list at least), it is kinda jumping the gun to talk about them since Derek will make the final decision on what subject anyways.Thomas, FYI - The MP will have "official servers". A players rank/score will be tracked and thus, any BC ONLINE user in this forum should not be allowed to jump from race to race or caste to caste or an intermix of Race/Caste. If this was applies to the RP forum, much of the confusion would also disappear. I suggest some uniformity between the two. But since I'm not a story writer (just like reading them), my opinion doesn't carry much weight. There should be some regulating body amonst the entire group. Even the Mercs have a Station, so there must be some governing body to maintain it?We already have a good working set of rules inplace. And they do not appear intense enough to drive people away, why not stick with what works. quote:Multiplayer is coming and like the game itself, is going to be a remarkable experience. Its going to take everything you know about the game and the alliances you make on and offline, to be an elite. In fact, though time prevented me from doing the SDF campaign, I will be using the multiplayer universe to handle ranks and ratings, in short, our own dynamic roster which the server has the ability to track and update the main page here on the site. So, everyone will get a chance to be somebody in the universe, be it a commander of an elite team or a renegade raider in the outer rim. It won't do you much good if you can't access the official server to play because if you are banned from the site, you won't be able to log on any official server either, you will have to create your own and play with your friends. If you then decide to create your own rank structure, I won't care because you are not on any of my official servers.------------------ Cmdr Mark Giao GVC-Jackal Official BC3K Tester[This message has been edited by SpcFX (edited 08-17-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 17, 1999 Report Share Posted August 17, 1999 Akira, what you say makes a lot of sense. Thanks for bringing those points out into the open. It is much appreciated.I understand what you are saying, and I see your point concerning the chaos that letting a player fool around with an RP thread could cause. And you are exactly right. So, fair enough - players do not bring their MP sigs, etc., into RP threads. I have no problems with that. But I also believe that it is up to the leader of the thread to police this. After all, nothing stops me from logging on and posting something stupid regardless of what we have discussed here.So may I suggest that a person initiating an RP thread makes the rules clear. Blades actually gave me this idea with his suggestion for a new RP in this Forum. His first post made it very clear what he wanted. That method of specifying the rules of the thread in advance is, perhaps, something we should adopt.I don't want to force MP and RP together until they break, and as I said, all opinions on this are welcome and appreciated. My main concerns are over-regulation and the fact that denying the participation of MP squadrons in an RP may be limiting both the squadron (not a bad thing) and the RP (could be a very bad thing). But as you have pointed out, discretion should be encouraged within RP threads and within the RP Forum.Rattler, you and Akira are usually on a similar wavelength, so I'm suspecting that the points he brought up were the ones you were trying to get across.OK! So we seem to have reached some kind of conclusion. Squadrons can be created for any race/caste as long as they are valid in the game. Yes, you CAN create a squadron of Gammulan Raiders, but a) you won't be able to play them in the game, and you'll have to prove yourself to the RP administrators before you can RP with them. As Akira has pointed out above, this is only fair. OTOH, you can create a PLAYABLE squadron, such as a squadron of Terran Raiders, and you get the benefit of being able to multiplay as them, but once more, you cannot RP with them until you have proved yourself. OR, you can apply to, and succesfully join, an existing fleet, and you get to both RP as a member of that fleet AND multiplay with an entire fleet at your back. OR, you can simply play as GALCOM Prime and take part in role-playing and multiplaying.I think that provides a plethora of options open to prospective players. Now all we need to do is ensure that the information provided in the manual, especially the backstory and history, provides the support and is informative enough to encourage players to create squadrons and play as races and castes that are consistent with the game.Thanks for your input, all. Any more issues, raise 'em here while the thread's going hot.In response to SpacePhish's last post, that is one exception we should seriously consider. GALCOM is a multiracial alliance. It is possible to be a member of GALCOM and not be Terran, and I believe that should be permissible in RP - after all, you are still playing as a member of GALCOM Prime or one of the fleets, and therefore not damaging the current structure.As far as your question concerning MP is concerned, there is nothing stopping you playing anything at all in multiplayer - you can log on as one thing one day and another thing the next. But if you start bandying about an MP designation on the forum, say you were signing yourself off as a Gammulan / Raider, then you'd be expected to try and stick to it, and prove yourself to the RP admin before you took part in RP posts. But once more, you can play as any playable caste in multiplayer. If you are worried about people confusing your allegiance, play under a different name. Or simply make sure you always use the same sig on the Forum.My reply to Thomas' questions is as follows. Non-Terran fleets will be considered by Derek, but it is likely the only one that will be seriously considered would be a Gammulan Military Fleet. This because Gammulans are the only other really popular fleet, and only the Military Caste operates fleets. Other castes have no such centralised structure. Whether people will be allowed to be members of this, or other new official fleets, is something that the RP admin will have to discuss. If the new fleets are made official and opened for membership, then methinks that they will be a part of the RP universe and therefore a part of this forum. As a result, members of these fleets would be able to post in RP tags. What do the rest of you think?Yes, as far as I know, UCV and DCV designators can be used outside the RP forum - in fact, I imagine they'll be used more outside the RP forum than in it because most RP action involves the established fleets and castes which all have their own designations - GCV, SDF, ECV, and ICV. Non-military squadrons will use UCV - and this is mostly a multiplayer thing, because squadrons have to have proved themselves before taking part in a role-play forum. Military squadrons outside the current structure, for instance, the Gammulan fleet discussed above, will use DCV. This is mostly an RP thing, because non-Terran military cannot be played in multiplayer, so for players to use them, they will have to be a part of an official non-Terran military role-playing fleet.Hope this clears up my position on this issue. To be honest, this is getting way too confusing, even for me. I vote we just let it happen - as Rattler says, no point trying to run if we can't walk - and keep what we've discussed in the back of our minds to refer to as necessary.------------------ Commander DeSylva GCV First Light ISS01 -=- ISS Fleet Coordinator www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arena/9206/iss/ Official BC3K Tester and Blind Man With Sleeves award winner "Serve - with honour." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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