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How would the MK3 fare in battle against other ships


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Ok, picture this ...

Small fleet of ST ships (Federation, Klingon or Rommulan) appears in the SW universe. See's evil Empire (Grrr, badguys) and decides the only way to bring law and order to this chaotic universe is to lay the smack down. (Mirror, Mirroresqe)

ST ships armed with Genesis Torpedoes ... hmm, nice. Zip up to a few SW shipyards and deploys a few torps. Genesis torps will devestate the planets the shipyards orbit and anything within a good distance of the detonation. (Mutara nebula? What Mutara nebula?)

So then, SW gets it's ass handed to it by the good guys from Star Fleet Command. Hurruh!

But wait ... the might of the Imperial Navy stages a counter strike! Boo-hiss I hear from the audience. Hundreds n zillions of capitol ships, fighters, friggates n what not ...

... but wait ... a few strategically deployed Genesis Torps and KAAAABOOOOM, no more Imperial Fleet.

And dont be startin that force crap with me. We got the Vulcan neck pinch. wink.gif

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Fleet Cmdr. Karl Savage

GCV - Tsunami, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS)

Fleet Leader, ORION FLEET

www.orionfleet.com

'Here cometh the storm!'

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Well, What are we discussing here? StarTrek lore VS StarWars lore, or the Federation VS the Empire? Species 8472 on Star Trek has ships that can blow up entire planets plus those ships are a lot more maneuverable than the Deathstar...... cwm16.gif

This is probably going to cause a lot more strife cwm4.gif : What if we brought Babylon 5 into this? smile.gif

[This message has been edited by LordDavid (edited 03-26-2001).]

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quote:

... but wait ... a few strategically deployed Genesis Torps and
KAAAABOOOOM
, no more Imperial Fleet.

What about a few well placed Galaxy guns? KAAAAAABOOOOM!, no more Romulan, Klingon, Federation or Borg fleet.

quote:

And dont be startin that force crap with me. We got the Vulcan neck pinch.

Well, in one SW episodes (7, 8 or 9), Luke Skywalker blow up some Imperial commands ships with the force, and the emperor destroys the Eclipse II with a force storm.

quote:

What if we brought Babylon 5 into this?

I never watched the show and barely heard about it.

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Commander Epsilon 5

GCV - StalkerIV, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS)

Deterrence Battle Group

www.orionfleet.com

'This Far, No Farther!'

[This message has been edited by Epsilon 5 (edited 03-26-2001).]

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quote:

Caine! Owwwwwwwww.
smile.gif
( I actually like the models, that hurt
smile.gif
)

Plus Caine, once the PTA begins firing the cloak is effectively cancelled.


I think you might have the wrong Caine, what do you mean by models?

and yes, I know cloak doesn't work then, but it will still get you close enough to be able to hammer your opponent. After all, it isn't nice being slammed at point-blank range by surprise.

If someone knew what he was doing, an ST ship could be disabled in a couple volleys.

If worse came to worse, a few interceptors could be launched to help.

(hmmm, multiple targets, plus missiles which shields aren't designed to block, combined with a s**t load of weapons-fire = a good time had by all.) cwm2.gif

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And about the transporters being a serious threat, if any ST boarding attempt were to be made against any SW ship, well all it takes to stop that are a handful of jedi knights and mission accomplished. And don't even tell me any borg attempt might work as well. Those lightsabers will cut through their so-called adaptable shields and turn them into spare parts. And even if I'm wrong, their Force powers are enough to stop them including dark side powers. Hell, throw in one jedi master or a sith lord and it's all over too! You can debate on who's ships and weapons are better, but their ain't no ground force or troops no matter what technology that can stop the skills and discipline of a jedi be it light or dark.

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Commander Gene Starwind

UCV Outlaw Star

"You better get ready!"

[This message has been edited by Outlaw (edited 03-26-2001).]

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quote:

Besides, who would suspect that a clunky, boxy, primitive-looking ship would be a threat?? (Until it was too late anyways...)

That weren't you? Clunky? smile.gif

I like them. I like them all. They actually look like ships now. I did not like those orange things in BC3K. My favorite was the LRT-10. It just flat out looked like a cargo ship. Now my favorite is the new canlon.

Quoting lengths.

Lengths:

Voyager: no more than 300 meters

The Entreprise: About 600-700 meters (1701 or 1701d? {Next Gen ship})

Nebulon frigate: 600meters (not sure)

ISD: 1 mile (1606 meters)

SSD (executor): about 18km

Eclipse I and II: about 12km

The MK3 according to the BC3K manual is 1800 ft in length. From a conversion site http://www.metric4us.com/calculator.html that makes the MK3 548 meters. That's over 50% larger than Voyager. I think it would kick Voyager in the tailpipe. It's almost up there with the Enterprise (whichever one that is and that's quite a plus/minus factor) So I think it would do pretty darn good against that one.

Star Wars ships (the one quoted) are just too darn big so no contest there. Maybe some of the smaller ones in the Star wars universe but not those huge things.

It could probably take a Wing Commander ship and/or the Galctica. Can't think of any more widely known sci fi ships right now though I am sure there are some I missed.

Anyway, no hard feelings and my opinions only. Just a fun thread.

------------------

Vice Admiral Chavik

ICV Phoenix, Sygan Starstation (Sygan)

Fleet Leader - Balor Fleet

Official BC3K Tester

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Ben, in ST6, when the E-A crew is wondering if they fired at Cronus 1, they look at two computer screens, one on the bridge and one in the torpedo room. There are thousands of horizontal lines in these displays. The reason that I am sure that these are torpedoes is because on the bridge, two of the lines are red, corresponding to the two torpedoes the E-A allegedly fired, while all the lines were white in the torpedo room. On the bridge, they think they fired, while in the torpedo room, Scotty says they didn't. The TNGTM has been known to contain errors, and the usual philosophy about this is to check actual canon.

It is highly unlikely that phase-cloaking technology was erased from federation databanks. Such information is probably not carried on ships, but could be transmitted should the need for such devices arise. The federation undoubtably has some operations of questionable legality, and other that are in outright violation of treaty, like the US today. It would be insane not to at least keep information about advanced technology that could potentially be of great value around. In an extreme situation, I doubt the federation would hesitate for too long before breaching treaties.

As for the photon torpedoes, the borg did indeed take some damage when they first encountered them, but what I was trying to say was that if the borg could adapt to photon torpedoes, they could adapt to plasma weapons, because according to Epsilon, plasma weapons affect their target in a way similar to conventional explosives.

Oh, and outlaw, if the federation or borg was able to beam troops over to a ship with jedi knights in it, they could, as a last resort, beam the jedi themselves into space, or even better, destroy them during transport. Eventually, though, jedi could conceivably overwhelm a federation or borg starship, but if you wish to invoke the force, let me invoke Q. Since the day SW fans allow Q into such discussions is the day star wars challenges star trek in a movie, let us try and keep discussion to technologies.

[This message has been edited by Sunanta (edited 03-26-2001).]

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What if the borg were to assimilate a Jedi Knight/Sith Lord? wink.gif Vader is already half way borg with his mechanical parts.

I can just see it now.... An assilimated YODA! "Futile is resistance! Assimilate you, we will, yes..mmmm" LOL

[This message has been edited by LordDavid (edited 03-26-2001).]

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What? Borgs assimilating that overgrown wetland fern bush? No way! biggrin.gif

This is purely subjective *WARNING* but I think that you can't assimilate a sith lord or a jedi master because the force will protect his mind and freedom of thought.

Oh, and you have nothing to measure Independence day ships shields, you only know that a small nuclear warhead is not strong enough.

------------------

Commander Epsilon 5

GCV - StalkerIV, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS)

Deterrence Battle Group

www.orionfleet.com

'This Far, No Farther!'

[This message has been edited by Epsilon 5 (edited 03-26-2001).]

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Good point. Is this "Empire vs. Federation" or "ST vs. ST". If the latter, a Q in the mess would end things real quick-like (unless he was feeling playful... biggrin.gif )

But, if Feds vs. Imps, I'd go with the Feds. Torpedo bays and phase cloaks aside, phasers can burrow through soild rock with pin-oint accuracy while in orbit (episode when E-D drilled in order to make a transport underground (rebels of some sort, I think)). So, we got weapons that could shoot between Vader's eyes at ~100km, while in SW ANH a SD had trouble hiting the Falcon which was no more than 5 klicks away.

Then there's warp drive. SW ships are blind using their FTL drive, yet ST ships can not only see but use the drive like a fine tool (whereas SW it's "point int the right direction, turn it on, turn it off).

Imgaine this: A Fed ship warps in to within 50km of a SD, oh heck, make it a SSD. Phasers take out the shield generators (practical bulls-eyes) and some torpedos get pumped into that lovely exposed command deck.

No more bridge, no more SSD (ala RotJ at Endor), while the off-gaurd SSD is still rying to power up the turbolasers and have those monster turrets lock on (from 50km away.) Repeat as needed.

Fighters? Pah! Those puny TIE's barley have a hull, they don't even have life support! Barley worth the phaser energy. Besides, in an attack like above they wouldn't have the time to deploy.

The Force? Double pah! In TPH (Episdoe 1), it's explained that the Force is basicly a bunch of amoebas talking to each other. Amoebas that don't exsist in the Milky Way, which I can say becasue WE certainly don't have the Force! Jedi's and such would be some many monks with little plasma swords.

ST and SW technical stuff is a perverse hobby of mine. I got every cannon technical guide from both universes in front of me right now, plus the SW trilogy on tape and almost every ST episode in my head (except DS9, which was just bad :P ).

Cower before my nerdness! biggrin.gif

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quote:

phasers can burrow through soild rock with pin-oint accuracy while in orbit

I don't know about accuracy, but I know that they can shoot from orbit.

quote:

a SD had trouble hiting the Falcon which was no more than 5 klicks away.

I do understand that fast beam weapons are better to burst-mode plasma cannon (turbolasers)

quote:

yet ST ships can not only see but use the drive like a fine tool (whereas SW it's "point int the right direction, turn it on, turn it off).

ST ships can't turn while in warp drive (was said in a voyager episode... don't remember which) because that dampers and structural integrity aren't strong enough.

Nut in SW, there has been a story that rebels ships were waiting to ambush a ISD coming in their directions, and that the ISD, already on his way and advised of the situations, make a U-turn and arrived In the back of the rebel armada.

It take a few light years to make the U-turn.

quote:

Phasers take out the shield generators (practical bulls-eyes) and some torpedos get pumped into that lovely exposed command deck.

2 general errors that people make here: Those 2 balls over the bridge section are SENSORS, not shield generators, and you cannnot (or are not likely) hit the hull UNLESS the shields are out.

quote:

while the off-gaurd SSD is still rying to power up the turbolasers and have those monster turrets lock on (from 50km away.)

They have missiles, are all homing. Those proton torpedoes can make 70,000g turns. ISD do have thousands of missiles. 1 heavy rocket or a couple of concussion missiles can take out a ST ship. Heck, salvage the ship: 1 or 2 mag pulse torpedoes, + ion cannons

quote:

Fighters? Pah! Those puny TIE's barley have a hull, they don't even have life support! Barley worth the phaser energy.

I know that, but a swarm of little TF equipped with standard twin green (imperial) lasers are really powerful (imperial laser are suppositively stronger than rebel red lasers)

Remember that voyager episode (I never remeber those names) where voyager would land on a planet and awaken an old civilisation, and then run for their life because of 900 years old ships that voyager could destroy is 1 shot each? Voyager lost few system, including partial propulsion.

quote:

with little plasma swords.

You seem to forget the skills behind those swords. And I haven't seen Episode 1.

Suntana:

quote:

Lets not bring the force into this- If SW gets the force, ST gets Q.

I'll let the force out of this, for 2 reasons: The force is already too mysterious and is part of fantasy. And the force is not technology, which then is quite out of my reach.

------------------

Commander Epsilon 5

GCV - StalkerIV, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS)

Wraith liason officer, Deterrence Battle Group

www.orionfleet.com

'This Far, No Farther!'

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quote:


phasers can burrow through soild rock with pin-oint accuracy while in orbit (episode when E-D drilled in order to make a transport underground (rebels of some sort, I think)). So, we got weapons that could shoot between Vader's eyes at ~100km, while in SW ANH a SD had trouble hiting the Falcon which was no more than 5 klicks away.

Rock is a STATIONARY target while the Falcon is a MOVING target that is constantly changing course.

------------------

Commodore Kyle Antilles

ICV-Eclipse, Destiny Starstation (Nevuela)

Commanding Officer, Destiny

Spectre Fleet

External Beta Tester

Battlecruiser Millennium

"You can only love or hate something you truly understand"

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So what if ST gets Q? It's not like you can summon him like a genie and he'll appear or call his name and let him do your bidding. The force hands down makes much more sense as a power to harness and can be used offensively and defensively, and Eclipse is right, any jedi is skilled using a lightsaber. A standoff won't work. The jedi masters and sith lords don't need lightsabers. If I'm right they can also mask themselves from sensors so a transporter lock won't work too. Approach with caution. Remember the lightsaber is just a weapon, but their force powers can also be used against you if your careless. It's all mystical and magical but Q ain't gonna exactly be there when you need him when the jedi and the force stand in your way. Alright, this ends my point. No more for me.

------------------

Commander Gene Starwind

UCV Outlaw Star

"You better get ready!"

[This message has been edited by Outlaw (edited 04-04-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Outlaw (edited 04-04-2001).]

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If it is Star Trek vs Star Wars, then Star trek combats Star Wars. In other words, all of Star Trek vs all of Star Wars. So, Q would come into play along side the Federation, Borg, Klingons etc. Of course, the rebellion would join forces with the Empire too, along with all the jedi. Saying Q wouldn't fight in this battle is like saying the empire wouldn't fight. The reason why we aren't discussing Star Trek vs Star Wars but rather Federation (and related) technology vs Imperial (and related) technology assuming the two powers ever come into conflict is because a broad Star Trek vs Star Wars discussion would bring up all sorts of impracticalities (such as Yoda and Darth Vadar fighting along side, and Q snapping his fingers and turing the imperials into interstellar dust). If you wish to discuss Star Wars vs Star Trek on a broad scale, fine. Just explain to me how the whole of the Q continuum couldn't rearrange the molecular structure of all the mighty imperial fleets into a huge dumpster.

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Keep it a Imperial vs federation. You can bring the rebels, the borgs, the Klingons and Romulans in, but not too much. Maybe the Cardassians, but the guys from ds9 vanquished them.

------------------

Commander Epsilon 5

GCV - StalkerIV, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS)

Wraith liason officer, Deterrence Battle Group

www.orionfleet.com

'This Far, No Farther!'

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Keep it MK3 against other ships of any sci fi universe.

No Q, no Force, no lightsabers, no Sith lords. Ship against ship.

------------------

Vice Admiral Chavik

ICV Phoenix, Sygan Starstation (Sygan)

Fleet Leader - Balor Fleet

Official BC3K Tester

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Why no lighsabers? These aren't really special weapons, only plasma in a containment field. Anyway, they're not really ranged weapons. A skilled huy with a blaster pistol cankill an unskilled guy with a lightsaber.

------------------

Commander Epsilon 5

GCV - StalkerIV, Orion Starstation (CENTRIS)

Wraith liason officer, Deterrence Battle Group

www.orionfleet.com

'This Far, No Farther!'

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