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He's OFFENDED Because We Won't Run???


aramike
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We need a new McArthy...

Someone to weed out the un-American.

I'm fine with anyone here, but quite frankly if you are "offended" by the sight of the American flag then quite frankly why the hell are you in this country and what did you expect to see upon coming here?

Sensitivity is nothing but the feminizing of men in society in hopes that we will somehow achieve a stable world with women in charge... we'd however be going to war once a month...

Anyway I've said it before and I will say it again.

Liberalism is arguments through feelings and emotions rather than logic and facts.

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the way i see it, it's not the fact that americans wont run, but the arrogance of such a statement. it reinforces the "american is best" mentality. The Afgan war is widely seen as a war on Islam. and it is this, the "yay yay America" attitude, imo, at which he as a muslim takes offence.

just a thought........

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Well if he's offended by it, then we ought to boot his little butt to wherever his little butt came from, and if he is a citizen, then deport him to whereever his ancestors came from.

You wanna live in America, then you better not be easily offended by our flag. Otherwise get the hell out, or don't even bother coming!!

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This war is seen as a war on terrorists.

Those who are worried about those declaring a jihad are in fact overblowing the whole thing.

Evidence suggests that since less than 1/4 of the hijackers left goodbye notes, 3/4 of them didn't think it was a suicide mission. Possibly.

Which would suggest that those willing to DIE for the cause is perhaps lower than believed.

America is the land of the free, home of the brave, yadda yadda yadda.

We have just had a resurgence of patriotism, which in itself perhaps could mean that we believe we ARE the best.

We don't term best however by military power, or whether we are better fighters. We determine it because of the spirit that Americans have shown in dealing with this tragedy.

America is great because of the hundreds of firefighters who go into a building that is collapsing, compared to our congress which runs whenever anthrax is suggested to be in the ventilation systems of the capital.

True Americans are those who are willing to help those in need, individually and are not forced to.

Just because that fellow was "offended" didn't give him a right to just take that down.

I find CNN, MSNBC, and CBS offensive but you don't see me up there trying to get them taken off the air. They have a right to say what they want, but don't have a right to make anyone listen.

If I was offended by a poster, I would tell the people, or just not look at it. I wouldn't just rant and rave and pull it off the wall.

Just my two cents

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Woah, slow down everyone.

Read it carefully. He's not offended by the flag, but by the writing on it. There is a reason for this. And it's not liberal extremisms.

Flags are important symbols, and revered by some people (especially military institutions) as a representation of all that a nation is. Because of this, there are STRICT rules for the care and maintenance of a Nation's flag. I got this off the web, on a site explaining the Do's and Don't of American Flag Maintenance:

quote:

Important Don'ts

1 Never in any way should any disrespect be shown the U. S. flag.

2 The U. S. flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. Regimental colors, State flags, and organization or institutional flags are dipped as a mark of honor.

3 The U. S. flag should never be displayed with the union down except as a signal of dire distress.

4 The U. S. flag should never touch anything beneath it-ground, floor, water or merchandise.

5 The U. S. flag should never be carried horizontally, but always aloft and free.

6 Always allow the U, S. flag to fall free- never use the U. S. flag as drapery, festooned, drawn back, or up in folds. For draping platforms and decoration or general, use blue, white and red bunting. Always arrange the bunting with blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below.

7 The U. S. flag should never be fastened, displayed, used or stored in a manner which will permit it to be easily torn, soiled or damaged in any way. Never use the U. S. flag as a covering or drape for a ceiling.

8 Never place anything on the U. S. flag. The U. S. flag should never have placed upon it, or on any part of it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, figure, design, picture or drawing of any nature.

9 Never use the U. S. flag for receiving, holding, carrying or delivering anything. The U. S. flag should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard; or used as any portion of a costume or athletic uniform. Advertising signs should not be fastened to a staff or halyard from which the flag is flown.

When the U. S. flag is in such condition that it is no longer a fitting emblem for display, it should be destroyed in a dignified way, preferably by burning, privately.


I think this guy just followed the rules, as layed out by his own government, on the care of his nation's symbol. Writing anything on the flag would violate rule 8.

I'm not saying he acted right in taking it down, but there is a PATRIOTIC reason behind it.

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Badgerius ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Badgerius:

I'm not saying he acted right in taking it down, but there is a PATRIOTIC reason behind it.

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Badgerius ]

I doubt its a patriotic reason, more likely what was written on the flag was offensive to him as a muslim.

But then again thats just my speculation.

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That and on those posters I believe it is written UNDER the flag and not on it.

I don't look for justification in liberal actions. That's what they are for, to justify themselves.

Justification comes from doing the right moral thing, not trying to hunt something down to possibly excuse what they did after the fact.

Then again that's my two cents.

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quote:


I think this guy just followed the rules, as layed out by his own government, on the care of his nation's symbol. Writing anything on the flag would violate rule 8.

I'm not saying he acted right in taking it down, but there is a PATRIOTIC reason behind it.


Where the heck did you get that from? I've seen that poster, and the writing is below it.

quote:


the way i see it, it's not the fact that americans wont run, but the arrogance of such a statement. it reinforces the "american is best" mentality. The Afgan war is widely seen as a war on Islam. and it is this, the "yay yay America" attitude, imo, at which he as a muslim takes offence.

just a thought........


...and what is wrong with believing that your nation IS the best? What is wrong with that?

If someone tore down a similar Mexico flag, there'd be hell to raise. This nation is rather unique in that the flag represents a NATION, not a culture. If you don't like the US, do something about it or leave. Don't ATTACK the symbols that represent the unity of the nation itself.

And if he doesn't like this "yay, yay" American attitude, he can leave. I don't recall him complaining about the "yay yay" Muslim attitude.

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: aramike ]

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quote:

Posted by TRD
:

I doubt its a patriotic reason, more likely what was written on the flag was offensive to him as a muslim.

But then again thats just my speculation.


It says, "These Colors Don't Run". I've seen it, and they even say that in the article. Did you even read it? Would that be offensive to you a a Muslim?

Furthermore, in St. Louis, a shop owner got pissed at a World War II vet for taking down a poster, for the same reasons as Badgerius said. It had nothing to do with his race/ethnic background, because the vet was a Patriotic red-blooded American. This is the kind of stuff I've been reading in the local papers already. Patriotism, folks.

-----

I've seen shirts made out of that "These Colors Don't Run" poster. IIRC, it's written under the flag, like $ilk said. Then again, it is (in a way), "attatched" to the flag, which still violates Rule 8.

In my Point-of-View, I, like Badgerius, think of it more as Patriotism (like I said above).

Anyway, it does justify itself, if you look at it in a certain perspective. It's the great symbol of our nation. It's the symbol of our freedom. And it shouldn't (in my opinion), be disgraced by anything. The flag stands for itself. We don't need words to say just how cool we are. Leave it that way.

My $0.02 on this subject.

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Nova ]

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Nova, I doubt the guy did that out of patriotism. There is NOTHING to indicate that in the article, and the ONLY way you guys have put that nonsense together is a completely unrelated set of rules for handling the flag (which I doubt that guy even knew of).

Typical liberalism: look for excuses right away instead of accepting the fact that some people are just pricks.

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quote:

"He has no problem with the display of the American flag," said his lawyer Gaspar Castillo. "It was something that was written on it ... that he found offensive."

This might have something to do with it.

Possibility 1: He's offended by what was written. If this is the case, he can go suck his thumb for all I care.

Possibility 2: He thinks that writing something on the flag is disgracing it and decided to do something about it. Again, I don't really care, he sounds a little high-strung and probably needs the time off.

My point is, he could have had patriotic motivations. The guy is a Firefighter in NY state, after all. Maybe he was motivated by something else. If so, so be it, he'll no doubt get what's coming to him. But if everybody jumps to the wrong conclusion without waiting for the facts, how are we better than those we're fighting?

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quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Nova:

It says, "These Colors Don't Run". I've seen it, and they even say that in the article. Did you even read it? Would that be offensive to you a a Muslim?

I didnt realise that was all that was written on it. In that case then I dont see why he felt he had to take it down.

Saying that, being on the wrong side of American "patriotism" does piss people off, maybe it was a chain of events.

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quote:

Originally posted by aramike:

...and what is wrong with believing that your nation IS the best? What is wrong with that?


i'm not saying there is anything wrong with such a belief, I was only pointing out that THAT was what he may have taken offence at, and not as the topic implied, the fact that Americans wont run.

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Reading the article, it seems he was offended by the words 'These colors won't run'; it appears he is himself colored (he won a racial discrimination case after all) and probably (misguidedly) took offense to the reference to 'coloreds' running. So it wasn't being non-patriotic, just getting the wrong end of the stick, playing the racial card and getting on his high horse about it.

Talk about crazy political correctness

To me, the fact that he is a muslim is irrelevant and it is irresponsible to mention it in the light of current events. I think whoever wrote the article was trying to stir up something that wasn't there.

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Paddy Gregory ]

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quote:

To me, the fact that he is a muslim is irrelevant

I think to rule out that him being a muslim had nothing to do with it, is with all due respect, a little naive. The poster is intended to stir up patriotism in america's "war on islam" and while it is percievable that he took offence as a black man rather than as a muslim, it is, imo, highly improbable.

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quote:

Originally posted by buckthesystem:

I think to rule out that him being a muslim had nothing to do with it, is with all due respect, a little naive. The poster is intended to stir up patriotism in america's "war on islam" and while it is percievable that he took offence as a black man rather than as a muslim, it is, imo, highly improbable.

But it was quite clearly stated that he took offense to the wording, not the flag itself. His posssible reaction to the wording is no different than taking offense to 'Baa baa, black sheep' ie political correctness gone stupid. It's not new.

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i'm not saying he took offence at the flag. please read my original post. I'm saying he took offence at the implication of the statement on the poster.

quote:

posssible reaction to the wording is no different than taking offense to 'Baa baa, black sheep'

That is ridiculous. If i implied that my country would crush your religious brethren, would you not be offended? Think about it.

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quote:

Originally posted by buckthesystem:

i'm not saying he took offence at the flag. please read my original post. I'm saying he took offence at the implication of the statement on the poster.


How do you interpret 'These colors don't run' then? It's hardly an aggressive statement, more of a 'We will overcome' or 'We will prevail' declaration of defiance, extolling patriotic pride. I'm not saying I'm right, but there may be a more simple, if somewhat misguided, explanation. That was my impression when I read it.

Edit: what I'm trying to say is, if he was sensitive enough to be offended by the 'implied destruction of his religious brethren', the display of the flag itself would be sufficient, the wording, IMO, doesn't make it any more agressive or 'anti-Islamic'.

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Paddy Gregory ]

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quote:

How do you interpret 'These colors don't run' then? It's hardly an aggressive statement, more of a 'We will overcome' or 'We will prevail' declaration of defiance, extolling patriotic pride

thats what i'm trying to say he takes offence at. The pride (arogance) of americans in the "war against islam"

*sigh* you have a valid point and i'm not trying to say you're wrong and i'm right , i'm just trying to give another perspective on things. for all I know, you may be 100% right or I might be 100% right or we're both 100% wrong.

On this note i remove myself from this discussion. Whatever his reasons, I don't know him so I can't really comment on his reasons. Maybe he just likes to break things.

Edit:

quote:

the display of the flag itself would be sufficient, the wording, IMO, doesn't make it any more agressive or 'anti-Islamic'.


The straw that breaks the camel's back?

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: buckthesystem ]

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Still, what on Earth is offensive about stating that America will stand its ground -- unless, of course, you don't want America to stand its ground which is a whole 'nother problem...

As for the rules of the flag, they generally apply to flags that are meant for staffs, not facimiles of the flag.

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quote:

Originally posted by aramike:

Still, what on Earth is offensive about stating that America will stand its ground -- unless, of course, you don't want America to stand its ground which is a whole 'nother problem...

As for the rules of the flag, they generally apply to flags that are meant for staffs, not facimiles of the flag.

On its own, I cant see anything offensive about it. Thats why I think it was just part of a bigger problem with him being a muslim, and the bad name the religion has been given, especially over the last month.

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