Are you jumping ship? - The nVidia vs ATI debate (again)

[fraXis]

How many of us Nvidia users are jumping ship and going over to a Radeon 9700?

Derek: What are your thoughts on the 9700 vs the 8500 that you use in the dev machine?

Thanks,

Shawn

[ 08-31-2002, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Kenada]

quote:

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Originally posted by fraXis:

How many of us Nvidia users are jumping ship and going over to a Radeon 9700?

Derek: What are your thoughts on the 9700 vs the 8500 that you use in the dev machine?

Thanks,

Shawn

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No.

[Epsilon 5]

I got a 8500 and I want to exchange it for a ti4200.

[fraXis]

Epsilon,

What don't you like about your 8500?

Shawn

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by fraXis:

Derek: What are your thoughts on the 9700 vs the 8500 that you use in the dev machine?

Thanks,

Shawn

---

The 9700 replaced my 8500. Works fine. Its a leap. A major leap, but I can't think of any reason why an nVidiot would want to switch, if they already have a GF4 Ti card.

[Gallion]

Technically, the ATI Radeon v-cards (8500+) are equal to the nVidia v-cards. Sucky drivers is the biggest problem I have with any ATI v-card.

Got a wild hair few months back and swapped out a GF3 for a Radeon 8500. Drivers just plain sucked! Frame rates went way down and experienced tearing in several applications (aside from stress management packages) that use DirectX. So I pulled the ATI v-card out and reformatted my HDD to eradicate any and all trace of ATI's presence on my system. Hardware is only as good as its drivers; sucky drivers kill excellent HW.

To smooth out my ruffled feathers, I got a Ti4600 as soon as it was available. I may be a nVid10t but this id10t knows and has one KA v-card. Now its time to upgrade the rest of my doggy system

TTFN

[ 08-29-2002, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Gallion ]

[Guest Grayfox]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gallion:

Sucky drivers is the biggest problem I have with any ATI v-card

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thank you. i agree whole heartedly. that is the reason i have a major problem with all ati v-cards. i have had 2, and on each one the drivers really blew and i couldnt enjoy anything on my system.

unfortunately, monetary restrictions prevent me from upgrading, so im stuck with the radeon i have now...

although im certain certain ati drivers work better with certain systems (not mine) but there is no way im going to change my system to cater to their product.

[Kenada]

quote:

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Originally posted by Grayfox:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gallion:

Sucky drivers is the biggest problem I have with any ATI v-card

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thank you. i agree whole heartedly. that is the reason i have a major problem with all ati v-cards. i have had 2, and on each one the drivers really blew and i couldnt enjoy anything on my system.

unfortunately, monetary restrictions prevent me from upgrading, so im stuck with the radeon i have now...

although im certain certain ati drivers work better with certain systems (not mine) but there is no way im going to change my system to cater to their product.

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thats why i wont buy and ATI vid card... all bout' the drivers.

[Kevin Trotter]

Sometimes I feel like a motherless child....GeForce 2Ti..no problems so far and thank God for that.I'm at the mercy of my computer guy.

[Epsilon 5]

quote:

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Originally posted by fraXis:

Epsilon,

What don't you like about your 8500?

Shawn

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It's slower than I expected.

ANY kind of AA makes the screen stutter (even 2x / quality), at whatever resolution.

Many games have problems (such as stuttering in EnB and a few misc problems in BCM)

Using the wrong driver makes 90% of your games look all buggy (teehee in Flashpoint the "floor" changed "height" depending on my view pitch)

And it's not as powerful as I expected.

I haven'T updated my sys info, just change the vidcard to a ATI Radeon 8500LE 64mbm drivers 7.72 (if I remmeber well)

Maybe it's the fact that it's a LE, but whatever...

[Guest MIKE113]

I had lot of problems with 7.72 and went back to 7.68 and have some problems but not as many!!!

[Pedro Pablo Laracuente]

ATI sucks, their cards are fairly good but nothing compared to nvidia. The Radeon 8500 doesn't compare to the geforce TI 4600 or even the 4200

The 9700 might be better but i suggest you wait for the Nvidia NV30(is that it's name or am i confused)

[Cmdr Nova]

The 9700's drivers appear nearly bug-free, according to several places I've checked up. Which completely blew me away, as well.

It appears that ATI is pushing forward their next-gen technology, and working with it all the way, whilst leaving older models (like the 8500) in their own dust.

Here's a couple of the articles I've read on it. These are just the ones I could find quick links to.

Sharky Extreme Review

Tech TV Review

[Joel Schultz]

I for one am tired of giving ATI "one more chance" to get the drivers right.

This time I'm waiting for significant nVidia user desertion to ATI to signal them getting their driver act together.

[Guest rtoolooze]

No sir, I won't switch to ATI. Of course right now I have a GeForce4 ti 4600, and it works like a champ! All of my past Geforce cards have always done me good. So, why would I change.

Sorry S.C., I know your cruising around on an ATI ship, but I won't come aboard.

Now if you, the S.C., start building the drivers for them, who knows, mabe.

[Guest Grayfox]

quote:

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Originally posted by Cmdr Nova:

It appears that ATI is pushing forward their next-gen technology, and working with it all the way, whilst leaving older models (like the 8500) in their own dust.

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now thats a shame... what about the little people that cant afford their $400 flagship but own an older model??? are they to just suck it up??? yet another reason to NOT like ATI.

and with the drivers... bug free does not equal "good drivers" like gallion said, sucky drivers ruin good hardware VC's.

on another note, their technical support blows too. i bought a rage 128 when it first came out, and installed the drivers off the cd. i then checked the website to see if they had any updated drivers (for some reason) for the card, and they didnt... i then find out most abruptly that half of my apps, and games didnt work beause of my vid card. i call TS, and they say theyre working on it, and perhaps it is a system issue, and that maybe i should think about making a system that will be more "compatible with their hardware... so i politely told him to put the pipe down and proceeded to hang up on him. well, they "worked" on it for about 9 months or so when the next set of drivers came out... by that time i gave up and bought a voodoo 5 5500. it may not be supported anymore, but i think it still is a good card, and im not waiting no 9 freakin months to run my programs.

now on the other hand if SC did write the drivers for ATI products... then i would definitely be doin some buying

'nuff said

[ 08-30-2002, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Grayfox ]

[Epsilon 5]

quote:

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Sorry S.C., I know your cruising around on an ATI ship, but I won't come aboard.

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Eh, you should know that Derek is on many ships at once. But if I remember well, Derek prefers the nvidia cards.

Anyway, if Derek was more pro-ATI, his games would be in OpenGL

[ 08-31-2002, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Epsilon 5 ]

[Guest rtoolooze]

"Eh, you should know that Derek is on many ships at once."

Yep, thats true.

[Epsilon 5]

Oh I forgot that Aces High stutters now

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

Maybe it's the fact that it's a LE, but whatever...

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Thats the lower end of the 8500 line. You should read up on cards specs BEFORE buying. If you looked at the specs for all cards in that line (8500, 8500LE, 8500DV), you'd see the differences in memory capacity, memory speed, clock speed etc

And I don't even think the LE has a shader engine.

quote:

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Originally posted by Cmdr_ Laracuente:

The Radeon 8500 doesn't compare to the geforce TI 4600 or even the 4200

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Nonsense. On many levels. Sure, the 8500 128MB may not be as fast as the Ti4600, but it certainly is no slouch. You get what you pay for.

quote:

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Originally posted by Grayfox:

now thats a shame... what about the little people that cant afford their $400 flagship but own an older model??? are they to just suck it up??? yet another reason to NOT like ATI.

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Don't listen to him. He's just talking rubbish.

Even to this day, ATI still releases drivers for their older line. I see no reason why they'd stop releasing drivers for the 8500 just because they released the 9xxx cards. Thats just ludicrous poppycock and misinformation.

Rule of thumb: IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, DON'T POST!!

quote:

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Originally posted by rtoolooze:

Sorry S.C., I know your cruising around on an ATI ship, but I won't come aboard.

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Better put that crack pipe down, because you're clearly smoking some heavy sh*t to come up with such nonsense. What? I should keep slamming ATI just because it suits the agenda of a few clueless retards? ATI have come a long way, since the last time I slammed them. You don't like their cards, don't f*cking buy them. Yes, it is that simple.

At some point or another, I have EVERY graphics card EVER made. I judge them based on merit. Nothing more. Nothing less. All card/sound manufacturers send developers hardware so that they can ensure compatibility. I am on every single dev program you can think of (including several MS products) and I judge all of them based on merit.

When ATI released the 8500 and with crappy drivers, you saw my take on it. EVERY dev, media etc slammed them for the same thing. They've been cleaning up their act, to the extent that I have two 8500 machines here in my office and Peter, Andrei and Darrin, all have 8500 boards (as well as others I send out to them) simply because they are good cards and with stable drivers. I never thought that ATI could quite possibly top the 8500 any time soon. They proved every one wrong.

JC has always been neutral and outspoken in his views of cards and drivers. There is a good reason that the 9700 board was running DOOM3 at E3, when it could very well have been running on a Matrox Pahrelia (what a f*cking waste of time that was) or GF Ti4600. So, does that mean JC (and everyone else for that matter) are cruising around on the ATI ship?

What nonsense

The 9700 (I have the 9700 Pro) is a damn good card. In fact, currently the best there is and with drivers that I have so far found no problems with.

quote:

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Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

Anyway, if Derek was more pro-ATI, his games would be in OpenGL

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No they won't. You think developing an OpenGL game is just about the drivers? You have a LOT to learn my young man.

[ 08-31-2002, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Epsilon 5]

quote:

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No they won't. You think developing an OpenGL game is just about the drivers? You have a LOT to learn my young man.

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I'm saying that because

1 - ATI cards perform better in OpenGL than DirectX

2 - There are less driver problems under OpenGL with an ATI card.

I'm telling that from people's experience, mine and others.

quote:

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Thats the lower end of the 8500 line. You should read up on cards specs BEFORE buying. If you looked at the specs for all cards in that line (8500, 8500LE, 8500DV), you'd see the differences in memory capacity, memory speed, clock speed etc

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you may be right, but i'll probably go exchange it for a 4200 anyway

[ 08-31-2002, 01:22 PM: Message edited by: Epsilon 5 ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epsilon 5:

I'm saying that because

1 - ATI cards perform better in OpenGL than DirectX

2 - There are less driver problems under OpenGL with an ATI card.

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...which goes back to what you said and my subsequent reply. Developing and OGL game is not just about drivers. What you posted about is ALL about drivers.

[Guest rtoolooze]

"Better put that crack pipe down, because you're clearly smoking some heavy sh*t to come up with such nonsense."

Actually, I don't smoke crack. Just because I was just trying to add some humor does'nt mean I actually think thats the only card you use. Did you fail to see the wink at the end of my post?

"When ATI released the 8500 and with crappy drivers, you saw my take on it."

Yes, I saw your take on it. Was that the sole reason I chose to go with Nvidia? Of course not. I was buying GeForce cards long before that. I build ALL my machines. I always do research on everything I purchase. That being the case, yes, it was as simple as choosing not to go with ATI.

Am I or have I ever said anything to slam ATI? Nope. As I said before, its because the GeForce line of cards have always been good to me. Its like someone growing up driving Fords. Does that make Chevy a piece of shit? Not at all. Its just preference. Nothing more.

"So, does that mean JC (and everyone else for that matter) are cruising around on the ATI ship?"

Where did I imply that notion?

I really don't know what I said that struck a wrong cord with you. If you think I did, then I'm sorry. All humor aside, the only thing that matters to me is the fact that my machine does everything I want it to. Everything from BCM to B.F. 1942 to Morrowind to Nascar 2002. They ALL run like a charm. Thats all I care about.

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by rtoolooze:

"Better put that crack pipe down, because you're clearly smoking some heavy sh*t to come up with such nonsense."

Actually, I don't smoke crack. Just because I was just trying to add some humor does'nt mean I actually think thats the only card you use. Did you fail to see the wink at the end of my post?

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1. The wink in your paragraph was not in relation to the sentence I was responding to. You might want to read it again.

2. My 'crack' comment (which I use when I want to illustrate ridiculousness) is just as humorous as what you deemed your comment to be. What's good for Peter....

quote:

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Yes, I saw your take on it. Was that the sole reason I chose to go with Nvidia? Of course not. I was buying GeForce cards long before that. I build ALL my machines. I always do research on everything I purchase. That being the case, yes, it was as simple as choosing not to go with ATI.

Am I or have I ever said anything to slam ATI? Nope. As I said before, its because the GeForce line of cards have always been good to me. Its like someone growing up driving Fords. Does that make Chevy a piece of shit? Not at all. Its just preference. Nothing more.

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1. I don't care what kind of card you have. This information is irrelevant to me and was not the basis of the comment I was responding to.

2. My take on ATI's cards and drivers bear no relevance to what you post before, what I responded to and what you posted again. Its your money and you are free to do what the heck you like with it. We all have opinions. I took exception to your nonsensical insinuation about me being on ATI's ship. And called you on it.

quote:

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"So, does that mean JC (and everyone else for that matter) are cruising around on the ATI ship?"

Where did I imply that notion?

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Read what I wrote again and you'll see why I made the connection. You are clearly NOT paying attention!

quote:

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I really don't know what I said that struck a wrong cord with you. If you think I did, then I'm sorry.

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What strikes a wrong cord with me is when people make foolish statements like that. That is an assumption based on my personal preference. And incorrect assumption. I'm not pissed or anything, so don't get the wrong impression. The point is, silly comments like that is how it starts. And before you know it, someone idiot goes and blows it out of proportion. I was merely setting the record straight.

quote:

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All humor aside, the only thing that matters to me is the fact that my machine does everything I want it to. Everything from BCM to B.F. 1942 to Morrowind to Nascar 2002. They ALL run like a charm. Thats all I care about.

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And since its your money, that is ALL you SHOULD care above.

3.

[ 09-01-2002, 08:29 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Guest rtoolooze]

Understood Derek. I definitly will not make foolish assumptions in the future. I have way too much respect for you, and always have.

After standing back and looking at it again, I understand why you responded the way you did.

Again, I apoligize, and if for some reason in the future my brain has a malfunction again, just smack me around a little to bring me back to my senses.