Emmett.hendrick Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Ok guys a bit of advice requested here please. Over the Xmas I bought some system upgrades especially AMD 2100+ CPU 512MB 2100 DDR RAM ASUS A7V333 motherboard PNY GF 4 4200 64MB video card Western Digital 60GB 7200 rpm hard disk And a new case. I spent a day or so putting the whole lot togother and turned it on for the first time last night. The CPU runs fairly hot(about 60 degrees)but thats the case's fault its to small so the CPU fan sits below the PSU (a 425W), that problem I can resolve. The major problem I have is that if I power the system up from cold, or shut it down and then immediatly power it back up then it takes the system 5 minutes to detect the hard disk. The big problem is the system doesn't seem to realise this and continues to boot as normal so I get an "Invalid disk or disk error" message. IF I go to the Bios after about 3-5 minutes the hard disk is detected and if I exit the bios then system boots ok. I have never seen anything like this before so I was wondering if any of you guys have seen anything like it. If I can get this sorted and get a new case the system should be quiet good and will run BCG(which was the goal anyway!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Check the HDD cables. Also make sure that when your BIOS is set to auto-detect the HDD, that you save the BIOS info. You might also want to ensure that you are running the latest BIOS for your mobo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREG MILLER Posted January 2, 2003 Report Share Posted January 2, 2003 Does it do this with all drives (HDD and Optical drives (CD DVD)), or just the Hard Drive? If what the SC said doesn't resolve it, I would RMA back that board for another one. If it is just the Hard Drive, try swapping out a spare drive if you have one and see if it still the same. Emmett, is that 60c under load or at idle? If it is at idle you got a serious problem there. Check to make sure you didn't install the Heatsink on backwords, the raised part goes over the back of the socket. If it is under load, as long as your system remains stable, it is not to much of a concern. Once it goes over 65c then be very concerned about it, as my old Athlon Thunderbird core 1200mhz would constantly crash after reaching 70c under load. My current Palamino core AthlonXP CPU runs around 55c under load and I'm not too concerned about it, as this is also a result of my case design. I instituted alot of changes in my case for better air flow. Next will be replacing all ribbion drive cables with round ones. [ 01-02-2003, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: Greg Miller ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmett.hendrick Posted January 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 Thanks guys I found the latest update for the bios and replace the HDD cable and that sorted it out. Greg: The CPU idles at about 55/56 degrees once pc is booting and such it goes up to about 60/61 degrees. The CPU fan is on the correct way, but I do know what the problem is. I got a cheap case and its too small the cpu/fan sits right under the 425W powersupply and there are no other fans in the case(nor is there room for anymore) so I am getting a new better case over the next couple of days. But thanks for you help guys, I booted up BCM last night and played it on 1280*864 with all the details on full and it looks soooooooooo sweet. And it means I can now play BCG when it comes out so I am happy. Once again thanks for your help guys. [ 01-03-2003, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: Emmett.hendrick ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serondal Posted January 3, 2003 Report Share Posted January 3, 2003 I've been wanting to build a new computer instead of breaking down and buying a Dell computer. I know a bit about it but not enough How much would it cost to get a working computer that could run BCG very well ? You guys seem to know what you are talking about .(Of course SC does he is god, and Ghost Rider all in one!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmett.hendrick Posted January 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 All my bits listed cost about 1200 euro all told, but I was able to use my crrent monitor, keyboad, DVD and CDRW but I replaced pretty much everything else. You need to be carefull with were you buy, were I went, even after explaining what I was looking for the sales person tried to sell me everything for a PC even though I told him the bits I was going to hold on to. I find if your a gamer though the best way to get a really good system is to build your own. The big problem with premade machines (Dell, Gateway, ETC) is they cut back on certain parts to make them cheaper to produce or OEM their parts and take out some features that the general (read non gaming) publin would not use. That being said my pc is still not what I would call my "Dream" PC I'd love to have a dual processor pc with all the Best bells and whistles for gaming but money constraints force comprimises. PS: SC I will update my hardware profile as soon as I can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallion Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Serondal: I've been wanting to build a new computer instead of breaking down and buying a Dell computer. I know a bit about it but not enough How much would it cost to get a working computer that could run BCG very well ? You guys seem to know what you are talking about .(Of course SC does he is god, and Ghost Rider all in one!) Cost is relative to the computer system's components. Top of the line v-card will run $250-$400 USD. Top of the line sound cards run approx $200 USD. A decent speaker system can be obtained for approx $150-ish. A good website to find comparative prices is www.pricewatch.com Sometimes one can get a deal. Do your research. Set a budget and stick to it Glad you got you system running Emmett. BTW, ASUS is notorious for slipping/shipping mobos with bogus BIOS TTFN TTFN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Braun Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 I just finished purchasing for a computer, but all my equipment is still on its way. If you don't intend on building an intel system, don't listen to me, I've only ever worked with intel. BTW, my sole experience is not in buying this last computer. The computer I have now I built myself. I do volunteer tech support work at my school as well. I do, to some extent, know what I am talking about. Always buy a full tower. Smaller towers just don't do the job. Figure $80 -- $200+ depending on what you want, especially if what you want is fans / aluminum / PSupply etc. Buy the biggest PSupply you can, at least 450w. Figure $100 - $150 for one, I think. For Intel Mobo's, buy from Abit, Asus, or IWILL. IWILL actually specializes in worstation boards and is where you'd want to go for DP systems. Figure $100 - $250+ depending on the chipset 850 or 7505, the company, the RAM type, etc. There is a lot to consider on a Mobo, you need to know what kind of RAM, probably RAMBUS or DDR, you intend to use, what processor you want to use, in this case P4 or P4 XEON for DP machines, and what you want on board, auido, lan, RAID, SCSI, etc. Make sure it has AGP 8x though, or your setting yourself up to buy a new one within the year. P4 vs P4 Xeon -- When I was buying a new system, I really wanted to know what the difference between these two was. The only thing I ever turned up is that Xeon processors are designed for Workstations and Servers, but all the specs appear to be the same for P4 and Xeon. Note that to my knowleadge, there are only DP Xeon Systems. The price difference in P4 and Xeon is nonexistent. Make sure you buy proccessors with 533mhz front side bus, instead of the old 400mhz models. You'll wonder why they're so cheap. . . Figure $250+ for a good processor. 3.06ghz can cost near $700! Hyper-Threading-A new, to consumers anyway, technology that makes 1 processor act like 2 logical processors. If you want a DP machine, buy processors with Hyperthreading and save on the second processor. Note that only W2000 and WXP support DP systems and that (to my knowleadge) only XP supports Hyperthreading. Processor costs vary from around $200 to $600+ dollars. To make it easier, the fastest processor around at the moment is 3.06ghz, at more than $600. RAM--RAMBUS vs DDR -- More Mobo's use DDR, simple as that. RAMBUS (RD) IS faster, but very few motherboards actually use it. I currently have RD ram, but am getting DDR because I couldn't find a good Mobo that supported RD. I think you need at least 512mb, I'm going for 1gb, and I would suggest 2gb if you have the money. RAM can be the sole determining factor of how well your big games (Morrowind and OFP, to name 2 that are out, BCG to name one we should all know) run. RAM will cost you about $.75 a meg at the moment. Note that AMD systems will only ever support DDR. RAID-If you want extra space without compromising speed and while still using IDE HD's, RAID is probably the way to go. For a gamer, RAID essentially allows you to take two smaller harddrives, say 40gb and run them as if they are a double-fast 80gb HD, the bigger your harddrive, the slower your read time, and RAID helps to cut down on this. SCSI-Fast alternative to IDE, never used it, but know that it is significantly more expensive to buy SCSI equipment. On Board. . .-- The only technology that I think should come on board is your LAN. Buy a Mobo with Gigabit Lan, and you won't need to worry about a LAN card. Hard Drives -- If you're looking for SCSI, I don't know anything. Otherwise, buy a Maxtor or Western Digital Harddrive. They make good stable products. Figure no more than $100 for a 40 to 60gb hard drive. Make sure it's 7200rpm. Video Cards -- I'd say this is primarily opinion based. ATi's new card (9700) has plenty of advantages, but I don't trust ATi's drivers. I still use nVidia, and if you wait long enough, you can get a card with the nV30 chipset that should be faster than the 9700. Figure $250+ for a good video card, either the 9700 or a geForce4 Ti-4600. Sound Cards -- The newest and best consumer card is the Augdigy 2. If you've already got an Audigy card, keep it, if you have anything else, buy an Audigy 2. From a retailer, it will cost $200. Optical Drives -- You probably want a good 16x DVD drive for your computer. This will be less than $100. After that, the issue of a CD-RW or even DVD-RW arises. If nothing else, buy from companies you know: Philips, Sony, etc. They will provide you with the stuff most likely to work. Note that there are multiple DVD-R and DVD-RW formats out at the moment. Buying from a major company will increase your chances of buying a drive with the format that will survive. Otherwise, buy a CD-RW and hold off on the DVD-RW. A CD-RW should cost between $100 and $200 depending primarily on the company. Monitor -- Plan on a 19" Flat or Flatscreen monitor. I would suggest Flatscreen over Flat only because the refresh rates on Flat LCD monitors is lower than on CRT's and *can* cause streaking in very fast games. Look for a dot pitch of .20mm, these are the better monitors. Figure between $150 and $300+ for a monitor. Keyboards / Mice -- I've always found that keyboards in the 2nd level of cheapness (around $30 from a retailer, not $15!!) work better for gaming than the higher level ones, unless you're into wireless and all that crap. . . I do not believe in wireless keyboards. Microsoft's keyboards always works great with Microsoft's OS. A digital, USB mouse, perhaps even wireless, is a must for gaming. Try to get one of the new ones with dual sensors for enhanced accuracy, they reduce the chance that your mouse will skip, a slight problem when the difficult to clean lenses get dirty. Figure $20 to $50+ depending on what you get. $20 should be a fair Logitech mouse that you can buy anywhere. I think that covers everything. If you want to shop for AMD stuff, the same rules apply for everything but the Mobo and processors. Oddly enough, a lot of computer buying is opinion since even the $700 machine some fool buys from Best Buy with a $699 rebate will run most games, it's really how well you want your games to run, for how long, and at what resolutions. For games like BCG, Morrowind, OFP, Unreal2, and Microsoft Flight Sim, high level computers are a must. This is all I know. I hope that everyone will disagree with me and tell you what to buy instead, that way you'll have more choices. I hope that I have not told you what to buy, but suggested how you should buy it. 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Emmett.hendrick Posted January 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Gallion: Glad you got you system running Emmett. BTW, ASUS is notorious for slipping/shipping mobos with bogus BIOS TTFN TTFN Yea I noticed that from their support site alright. I flashed the board with the new bios in order to try sort the hard disk problem and will download/flash the latest one tonight. Still need to get the heat problem sorted though so going looking for a new case tonight aswell. My brother in law got a nice one so I may get one of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREG MILLER Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 Emmett, that idle temp could be a result of your Heatsink and CPU not making a good contact. Did you buy a retail CPU with a fan, or an OEM and added the fan yourself? If it is retail, did you peel the protective tape off of the Thermal Pad before installing? If it is OEM, did you put enough thermal compound on both the Heatsink, and CPU? Take the Heatsink off and try to reseat it, that may help. My Processor idles around 30c for referrence. T-Wopr, not everybody can live with a full tower. My wife saw my full tower, and when she knew I was building her one, her first question was, "My PC is not going to be as big as yours is it?" Most full towers do not fit into the PC space on most computer desks. Although I love my full tower, I use mid towers for my customers, and never a micro tower. Mid towers do fit into these spaces. I've noticed that more and more OEMs (Dell, Gateway, Compaq, etc.) use micro towers now. I hate this things with a passion. As a rule of thumb, make sure your tower has no fewer than 4 5 1/2 drive bays. Micro towers usually only have 1 or 2 at the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parias Posted January 6, 2003 Report Share Posted January 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Emmett.hendrick: The CPU idles at about 55/56 degrees once pc is booting and such it goes up to about 60/61 degrees. The CPU fan is on the correct way, but I do know what the problem is. I got a cheap case and its too small the cpu/fan sits right under the 425W powersupply and there are no other fans in the case(nor is there room for anymore) so I am getting a new better case over the next couple of days.That's pretty harsh, I'd definately check and ensure that you've got some thermal paste properly applied to the core of the CPU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emmett.hendrick Posted January 7, 2003 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2003 Thanks for the advice guys. I'm using the heatsink/fan combo that came with the chip. I bought a coolermaster fan/heatsink but because of the case it will not fit on the cpu the psu is in the way. So I am sourcing a new case tonight aswell as two case fans. But I have another problem anyway I turned the pc on last night and there was no display. so after reseating everything I enabled the bios speech reporter to hear "System failed memory check!" So I have to bring back the memory tonight and get it replaced, so watch were you buy parts(I won't mention were I bought mine just in case) it can be more hasstle than its worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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