Supreme Cmdr Posted February 10, 2003 Report Share Posted February 10, 2003 My God, this is getting out of hand really quickly, isn't it. I'm shocked. Here, read this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharr Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 http://www.pbs.org/now/ Bill Moyers blew this one off the hinges last Friday....I already wrote my reps....it doesn't make me feel much better... The best part is that under these new rules the government can strip you of your citizenship for donating to a third party that is found at some point to be a terrorist organization. Put you in jail without telling anyone and expanding monitoring of citizens (not that total information awareness is right now being run by that "great American" who got immunity for testimony in Iran Contra affair that he was deeply involved in)....but don't worry anyone who doesn't fit the racial profile....this won't concern you (wink wink)...unless your un-American..... The truly disturbing part is that sources believe the justice department was waiting to submit this to Congress shortly after we went to war with Iraq....but we all know Ashcroft would never do something like that.. Whoever smuggled this to the press is a true patriot and a small hero....who will probably have their career burned because they tried to help the American people....not smuggle guns to terrorists.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipse Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Lotharr: Whoever smuggled this to the press is a true patriot and a small hero....who will probably have their career burned because they tried to help the American people....not smuggle guns to terrorists.... I'm guessing that was sarcasm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 quote: Justice Department officials said no final decisions have made on any such legislation, and it could change substantially before it is completed. Spokeswoman Barbara Comstock acknowledged the department is "continually considering anti-terrorism measures and would be derelict if we were not doing so." "The department's deliberations are always undertaken with the strongest commitment to our Constitution and civil liberties," she added. The justice department looks at everything, this is not new, nor surprising. BUT, it will not happen. It breaks into the bill of rights BIG time, and if anything of this nature ever went to congress, it would blow the doors off. quote:by Lotharr The best part is that under these new rules the government can strip you of your citizenship for donating to a third party that is found at some point to be a terrorist organization. Put you in jail without telling anyone and expanding monitoring of citizens (not that total information awareness is right now being run by that "great American" who got immunity for testimony in Iran Contra affair that he was deeply involved in)....but don't worry anyone who doesn't fit the racial profile....this won't concern you (wink wink)...unless your un-American..... The truly disturbing part is that sources believe the justice department was waiting to submit this to Congress shortly after we went to war with Iraq....but we all know Ashcroft would never do something like that….. You and your paranoia are something to behold. I bet if I showed you some of the other stuff I have seen, you would probably flee for your life. It is good to be watchful, but this is overreacting, the justice department can send anything it wants to congress. This just doesn't pass the smell test. Sorry guys, but this is much ado about nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharr Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 quote: I'm guessing that was sarcasm In my book when you lie to Congress then hide like a little punk and take immunity you are not a "great American".....they are like most in this administration....poor to negligent and representing the worst America has to offer. The guy who smuggled that stuff out could have saved us some serious problems....I know Jag knows everything but I'm glad there are people like that out there. quote: You and your paranoia are something to behold Do you even read before you post. That stuff is in the report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I have downloaded the ENTIRE PDF file, all 89 pages of it. Have you? If something like this actually hits congress and not the VP's or the leaders of the house only, I would know about it. It has hit those desks, but no one elses, why? because it is patently ridiculous, and would never pass muster of any sort. There are all kinds of bills that hit congress, some of them are incredible to behold and would frighten you out of your socks. This one is an insane bill that will NEVER make it out of committee. It is way over the top, it was leaked because someone wanted to freak out as many people as possible. It's working, seeing the reactions that I have seen so far. Read it and get back to me. It is nothing as it states in the article, although it is a bit over the top. There is nothing to worry about here, honestly. Again, it is MUCH ado about nothing. Your paranoia is way over the top as well, but I can't help wondering if you would be freaked out at this if Clintoon was in charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharr Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 And that somehow is supposed to be an answer? I get almost EVERY bill that hits any of my congressmans or senators desks, this one would most definitely hit my e-mail, no if's and's or but's. If I felt that it was a:unconstitutional and B: had a snowballs chance in hell of passing, I would be the biggest voice in the wilderness you ever heard. I am a constitutionalist, above and beyond ANYTHING else, and if I see something that might undermine it, I will let you know. That I guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goaliejerry Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I agree with Jaguar, no need to get alarmist. The way I look at it, just as the military develops plans with every single contingincy in mind so as to see which contingincys are practical and which are so far fetched as to be chaulked up to theroy and interesting hypotheticals, so too do bill writters place various bits of legislation into writting, just to see what the final product would look like and to then fully extrapolate the consequences involved with the enactment of the bill. This draft was a work in progress, and no nearly rational human being could imagine that more then half the house and senate, composed of rational beings, would enact such legislation that so clearly opposes the rights as set forth in our Constitution. Discourse of this type only goes towards ensuring the American public maintains a certain level of critisism towards those who might legislate for us, but we have to keep in mind that the discourse must be rational before it becomes palatable and possible to debate the reasonability of changing such discourse into law. This "draft" just stinks, and I have no fear that our congress would even let this legislation, as it is described in the cited article, ever see release from commity to be presented for consideration as an enactment into law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duncan Idaho Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 I'm surprised so many think it won't pass. Our rights have been slowly eroded away over the last 20 years or so, and I think they're gonna erode even faster now. I think this will pass, and that's a scary thought. 9/11 made it even easier to pass such a horrid thing, all in the name of 'National Security'. Idaho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Trotter Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Jesus Jag I hope you are right , but in these days where alarmism passes for patriotism I 'm a little nervous. I just hope you are right this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supreme Cmdr Posted February 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Not being an alarmist, I'm just shocked that someone actually drafted this with an attempt to actually see if it can be shoehorned into the bill. Now thats the frightening thing to me, not the end result itself - which I don't expect to pass. Then again, these are different times and nothing surprises me anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lotharr Posted February 11, 2003 Report Share Posted February 11, 2003 Yeah the funny part is if this had been in any way about gun rights Jag would be screaming. No this is just our civil liberties....and we all know our Reps would take their time and serve the good in a time of war. Alarmist = Patriot I think that's better than the administrations definition of: Patriot = Criminal Besides so far what Scott Ritter said has been true. [ 02-11-2003, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Lotharr ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Grayfox Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 and they have the hubble telescope turned the wrong way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epsilon 5 Posted February 12, 2003 Report Share Posted February 12, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr: Not being an alarmist, I'm just shocked that someone actually drafted this with an attempt to actually see if it can be shoehorned into the bill. Now thats the frightening thing to me, not the end result itself - which I don't expect to pass. Then again, these are different times and nothing surprises me anymore. My thought exactly. Whether is passes or not, it's the sheer thought that someone WANTED that to happen. It isn't a joke, someone, somewhere, WANT that to happen. and that someone has a decent measure of power. Hopefully not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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