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The War with Iraq has begun


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Icecold,

I will tell you this, the person that is financially supporting the suicide bombers and Hamas and the other little terrorist groups is Saddam Houssein, along with Saudi Arabia.

Saudi has cut most of it off at the knees when they were caught, and now that Saddam is going to go down, there will be VERY LITTLE money to support these terrorist groups.

So get a grip, without money, these terrorists cannot do near the damage that they do now.

Suicide belts cost money, guns cost money, ammunition costs money.

THe terrorists in the west bank are toast, and now that the Palestinians actually have a Prime Minister who is NOT Arafat, he is going to come down on the terrorist movements as well.

The terrorists in the West Bank are toast, no money, their own government is going to come down on them etc.

It's over, sorry charlie.

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quote:

Originally posted by Grayfox:

and for our foreign policy secretary enigma, i too am curious as to what your master plan would be??? dont be shy please indulge our curiosities.

funny one there, my so called master plan i cant say. i could get me into alot of trouble so ill keep it to myself

quote:

Originally posted by Lotharr:

I love our war party....


and ppl say our nation cares bout our troops and those who have served. in the military ur expendable and looks like ur about the same even when ur out

Race Bannon IV, i agree ppl seem to forget that iraq is only a small part in terrorism. there are enough cells to still hurt the US something proper

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

The economy will come back, the state and federal governments need to just quit spending money they don't have.

do you honestly think our govt could balance a check book? they fill there pockets with $$$ when they buy a toilet seat for $10000. its called stealing anyway u slice it

quote:

Originally posted by Grayfox:

while i may not agree with everything jag has to say, he definitely does not deserve the treatment you have given him.

so its ok for him to talk down and treat everyone else like that?

quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

So get a grip, without money, these terrorists cannot do near the damage that they do now.

Suicide belts cost money, guns cost money, ammunition costs money.

others are and will fund them, and ud be amazed what stolen money, hijacked goods and household junk can and will do

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I think that without Iraq the attacks in Palestine will increase briefly then slow down quite abit, but I don't think they will stop all together.

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quote:

YOU BETTER MAKE DAMN SURE YOUR INFORMATION IS CORRECT. not only did you insult a member in good standing with this community but you seriously need to pull your head out of your a$$ and get your facts straight.


That is good advice:

(http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/History/73_War.html)

On October 6, 1973 — Yom Kippur, the holiest day in the Jewish calendar — Egypt and Syria opened a coordinated surprise attack against Israel. The equivalent of the total forces of NATO in Europe were mobilized on Israel's borders. On the Golan Heights, approximately 180 Israeli tanks faced an onslaught of 1,400 Syrian tanks. Along the Suez Canal, fewer than 500 Israeli defenders were attacked by 80,000 Egyptians.

At least nine Arab states, including four non-Middle Eastern nations, actively aided the Egyptian-Syrian war effort.

A few months before the Yom Kippur War, Iraq transferred a squadron of Hunter jets to Egypt. During the war, an Iraqi division of some 18,000 men and several hundred tanks was deployed in the central Golan and participated in the October 16 attack against Israeli positions. Iraqi MiGs began operating over the Golan Heights as early as October 8, the third day of the war.

Besides serving as financial underwriters, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait committed men to battle. A Saudi brigade of approximately 3,000 troops was dispatched to Syria, where it participated in fighting along the approaches to Damascus. Also, violating Paris's ban on the transfer of French-made weapons, Libya sent Mirage fighters to Egypt (from 1971-1973, President Muammar Qaddafi gave Cairo more than $1 billion in aid to rearm Egypt and to pay the Soviets for weapons delivered).

Other North African countries responded to Arab and Soviet calls to aid the frontline states. Algeria sent three aircraft squadrons of fighters and bombers, an armored brigade and 150 tanks. Approximately 1,000-2,000 Tunisian soldiers were positioned in the Nile Delta. Sudan stationed 3,500 troops in southern Egypt, and Morocco sent three brigades to the front lines, including 2,500 men to Syria.

Lebanese radar units were used by Syrian air defense forces. Lebanon also allowed Palestinian terrorists to shell Israeli civilian settlements from its territory. Palestinians fought on the Southern Front with the Egyptians and Kuwaitis.

The least enthusiastic participant in the October fighting was probably Jordan's King Hussein, who apparently had been kept uninformed of Egyptian and Syrian war plans. But Hussein did send two of his best units — the 40th and 60th Armored Brigades — to Syria. This force took positions in the southern sector, defending the main Amman-Damascus route and attacking Israeli positions along the Kuneitra-Sassa road on October 16. Three Jordanian artillery batteries also participated in the assault, carried out by nearly 100 tanks.

--------------

The Iraqis sent 18 thousand troops vs Egypt's 80 thousand. They sent a few hundred tanks vs Syria's 1,400. They were a participant but Not A Major One.

The US sent advisors to Israel however, it was the Israelis who fought and defeated the Arab nations using US equipment they had bought.

If you want more info about the US’s involvement research the attack on the USS Liberty by Israel.

I never post with inaccurate historical data.

Also, Iraq does fund the PLO however, they are not their only resource. Iraq’s demise may slow them down but not significantly. The only solution to that problem is at the negotiating table.

PS

Grayfox,

You partially quoted this same document.

[ 03-22-2003, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: IceCold ]

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quote:

Originally posted by Jaguar:

That is why Clinton is directly to blame for this economy now.

Hardly. Clinton left us a stable economy with a government that ran with a surplus every year. Check the stats.

quote:

It is almost time for the first tax cut to start kicking in, remember the $300 we all got back 2 years ago? That will start to be felt in the next 3-6 months.

I disagree completely. I didn't need that $300 and I dont need any other tax cut either. I'd rather the government send that $300 to a school or one of the "broke states" or something rather than giving it to me so I can by some CDs and a new set of speakers.

To stay on topic, I would like to analogize that what we are doing right now is similar to what police officers do when they raid a home and remove an armed criminal. Stray bullets fly and damage is done but the criminal cannot be allowed to remain.

A regime with a rape-room that uses chemical weapons on its own people is no longer acceptable. Saddam is being removed. He is an ass. It's messy but hopefully it will be over very quickly.

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quote:

and ppl say our nation cares bout our troops and those who have served. in the military ur expendable and looks like ur about the same even when ur out

When you sign up you understand your expendable...that's part of the job.

I didn't want to believe the hypocrisy could get this bad....but they did cut VA benefits by 25 billion....

Republicans make me sick, along with their Democratic co-conspirators....

What sorry times.

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Washington ahould be re-named Hypocrit City. On the one hand they thank our servicemen/women for their sacrifice while keeping their fingers crossed behind their backs along with the good ol knife ready to slip it in when nobody is looking. And DL had the gaul to call me crass when I said every politician in DC could blow me. Bunch of two faced turncoats that make Benedict Arnold look like a Patriot! And here we think Sadam is bad for torturing his people. Our government is gulty of it every day. Bend over Americans, Washington has a little something for you. I firmly believe the President and every member of the Senate and the Congress should be required to serve without payment of any kind. Then we would see who the true politicians are.

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Guest Grayfox

quote:

Grayfox,

You partially quoted this same document

ummm duh. i even said that i got that bit of info from the jewish virtual library. thanks for paying attention...

simply put they contributed arms, they contributed troops (a division is no small amount), they participated in an attack against the israelis... they played a major part. maybe the bubble surrounding you is distorting your view.

and everyone knows that the US funds israel. we gave them arms, we gave them planes, we have intel people there etc etc. we play a major part in it as well.

as for the funding of terrorists... there might be a chance that the countries that do fund terrorists will look at this ass whuppin we are handing to iraq and think "wow we could be next... is it really worth funding these people???" if they think it is worth it... well i do feel sorry for em.

please come up with something we dont know if you plan on continuing this conversation.

Wolferz... wow, how did i miss the part about you saying blow me to the politicians??? i do agree with you. they shanked us in the arse while smiling at us. its not crass making a statement like that... calling that crass comes from a person who never served and has no idea what we go through.

us veterans need to band together to solve this problem. but there are those veterans who backstab as much as the politicians in washington do... we got us a long road ahead of us.

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~I wish I learned how to add quotes~ Shame on me!

Anyway, last night I watched a news cast with the weird pen thing, like John Madden, it was some guy showing canals, bridges and which way they should drive the tanks.

I often wonder why those types of discussions are on. I also wonder if we give out way too much info, and opinions that could give a "heads up".

I do know I saw a very disturbing picture of young boys (18-20) resting in holes in the desert surounded by trucks and tanks, and I got really PO'd at these lame college protesters walking out of classes and blocking city streets.

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Just use "quote" marks.

"I do know I saw a very disturbing picture of young boys (18-20) resting in holes in the desert surounded by trucks and tanks, and I got really PO'd at these lame college protesters walking out of classes and blocking city streets."

I think it would be dangerous (? searching for a word ?) if one allowed one's self to get polarized to that extent.

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Guest Grayfox

quote:

Who might that be?


well in the DAV, alot of the older vets vying for power in the organization tend to shit on us younger ones not to mention on eachother.

thats why you dont see many disabled vets from the first gulf war to present in the organization.

quote:

I do know I saw a very disturbing picture of young boys (18-20) resting in holes in the desert surounded by trucks and tanks, and I got really PO'd at these lame college protesters walking out of classes and blocking city streets.


not to mention that little fat grubby documentary maker who made that shitty "bowling for columbine" movie standing on the stage at the oscars "making a statement" that pisses me off. lil fat bastard wouldnt even make it past zero day even IF he had the balls to actually join.

*sigh* a woman after my own heart... echo will you marry me??? j/k

[ 03-24-2003, 03:05 PM: Message edited by: Grayfox ]

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originally posted by Jaguar.

quote:

Saddam has killed and murdered over 1 million people, he has his citizens tortured and raped just to keep them in line. He is a dangerous man.

yeah and I suppose that the United States just found this out, that's why they are only now acting. He hasn't been in power for over 15 years and been doing this along. He's only just begun this villainy.

Ill bet you'll say he wasn't supplied with weapons by the united states in the 80's either.

The Kurds were encouraged to rise up against Saddam, we'll support you they said! When the Kurds were murdered and their rebellion destroyed where was the U.S

As sad as the things that Saddam and his company have been responsible for, I didn't know that people are really fooled by the "he's murdering and raping innocent people he must be stopped" reason.

I don't know what it is really myself, I could guess the oil, but that would still only be a guess...not to mention Bush has said repeatedly please don't light the oil, we'll want it when we're done.

But the reason for war now can't only be morals. Where were your morals for the past 13 years since the gulf war? he has been raping and murdering since then you know.

Anyway I'll say maybe It's good Saddam is gone, he is bad man. But the U.S is not doing it just like good samaritans. everyone wants something.

what about Mugabe's regime? What about Castro...he's done his share. But I guess they don't have oil.

[ 03-25-2003, 09:05 PM: Message edited by: Cruis.In ]

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Grayfox ask me again in a few months..

I decided I don't like seeing soo much on tv. I am also talking to my friend, who's son is over there, somewhere, and it breaks my heart that I can't do anything for her. Can't even hug her she is in Arizona....

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that was a dead link there lotharr.

i wish that they would rescue the captured soldiers. that's what I wish.

i saw someone speaking on t.v today, the daughter of a sergeant or so in the war, or going off. couldn't have said nothing more true than, the war is on, time for protests are done, support your soldiers and your president.

those fools who say they support the soldiers by protesting to end the war, to get them back home are plain fools. as much as I might argue of reasons for war, the point is the war is on, time to stop the bullshit.

no matter the reason, saddam will be gone, and only good can come of that. but there are alot of other saddams out there. dont stop now!

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http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/war.tracker/index.html

For what it's worth. I found this link clicking through AOL links. Every so often they come up with a true link instead of something within their own intranet.

I did the AOL write (e mail) a soldier thing as well.

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quote:

that was a dead link there lotharr

hmmmm...works when I click on it.....

quote:

and only good can come of that

quote:

support your soldiers and your president.

Unfortunately these two issues are not one in the same. Falling in lock step behind an administration in times of war is something best left to fascists..dissent is healthyespecially now that 99% of protesters qualify any position or statement with support for the troops.

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Guest MIKE113

In this "debate", who saw fit to vote the last time around? The last time I checked, we vote for people of like mind to represent us in government!

The Government, "We the people", voted for, have decided that this action is in "our" best interest.

The Debate is over, "we" are there, together, from Maine, to Alaska! We are there! Our friends' brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, the debate is mute, "We the People" are there.

God Speed to our Troopers!

M Daniel,Life Member DAV #23

P.S. I'm too old to go back in so I'm going over to play AAO and kick ass!

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Guest Grayfox

quote:

He hasn't been in power for over 15 years and been doing this along.

i think its closer to 20... just before the israelis bombed the nuke plant in 81. what i find ironic is we supported him during his war with iran... wheres the magic 8-ball when you need it?

quote:

In this "debate", who saw fit to vote the last time around? The last time I checked, we vote for people of like mind to represent us in government!


most of you would probably laugh at this, but i voted for nader. he made the most sense out of all of them. at least i voted.

quote:

Grayfox ask me again in a few months

why is the lease up on your old man then?

quote:

The Debate is over, "we" are there, together, from Maine, to Alaska! We are there! Our friends' brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers, the debate is mute, "We the People" are there.

God Speed to our Troopers!


amen

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If I hear one more person say support our troops I will f**king puke! Most of the people I have observed saying this have no idea what support means. For example I rarely agree with Jag but I have big respect for him and when he says stuff like supporting the troops I get it. But a number of people who support this police action don't even take the time to inform themselves about the situation. They have no vested interest in the "troops" , have no intention to inlist and put themselves or thier loved ones in harms way , watch the war on the big screen like it's a football game with equal fervor and blindly make statements about "taking Saddam out" as if they have any idea what that really entails. Do they really think that putting a flag they bought from frigging Wal-Mart,

on thier car constitutes support?

And just because we are now "Over there" the people who disagree with why we are should just shut up and keep thier convictions to themselves?

No No No! This is the very time we should speak up. Stop equating uninamity with unity. This country was founded on our right to dissent and even overthrow a government that is no longer just. While I support our troops in various ways, ( We are organizing cousnseling for families of deployed troops and my wife is working on some kinda food aide thing), I will never blindly go along with something I believe to be wrong no matter how idiots say I should. We should be raising this issue to prevent the next unnecessary police action

and save the lives of our soldiers and sailors.

Going after N. Korea? I'm all for it. Chastisng the Saudi's for acts of compliction and support of terrorism? Lets roll. Heating up Syria and Libya for years of terrorist activities that we know about? Let's do that shit , but this situation is doing nothing to end terrorism and will probably act as a recruiting poster for Al-Queda for years to come. So next time you see a yahoo waving a No war for oil sign remember he or she lives in a country that affords him to be a yahoo without the fear of being called unamerican.

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