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What it means to be poor

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quote:

Originally posted by Psirat:

quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

quote:

Originally posted by Chavis:

And I don't think you conservative jerk offs qualify.


WHAT HAVE YOUR LIBERAL MIND PRODUCED? Karl Marx, Lenin? ROFL


Oh no, here we go.

You know, as humans we're not limited to binary, black/white, on/off thinking.

"My team is better than yours."

Yeah, see you at homecoming...

Wealth, while related to hard work, is not a direct result of it. Luck and initial circumstances have a lot of power. I don't believe in equal opportunity, or in Santa (but if you see him, don't tell him I said that).

Please note I've not expressed my opinion on welfare or anyone's Mom.


What exactly have you expressed then?

Team, lol. Your "team" is a failure. Your "team" needs cash cows, slaves, to support your players.

For a little over a hundred years (in US, when taxes got introduced), we the producers have been paying off the thugs to keep thier hands off us, to keep us out of their prisons. We have been paying them off, and they have been taking our money, a little more each decade, and giving it to your "teams" leaches. The incompetents (great name for a team by the way). It's called the WELLFARE STATE. It's called SOCIALISM.

Here's why your team is enherently a losing team. It requires: first the producing element like the competent workers, the industrialist to build factories, farms, mines, and the inventors to introduce better way of doing things; second, it needs their consent to take the product of their labor from the workers, the product of their profits from the industrialist and the product of their minds from the inventors. Then your "team" redestributes those LOOTED products to those WHO DID NOT EARN them. Since no SANE human being would FREELY give up what he has earned, they introduced a law, that YOUR PROPERTY will be confiscated for non compliance, and you will go to prison. Therefore FREE CHOICE has been taken out from the equasion (like when people say, you are free to NOT pay taxes, that's BS). You are FORCED to pay, it's a literal PAY OFF to be left alone, to not have thugs barging through your doors.

The government NEEDS people like me, because without US they would have millions of leachers on their hands with NOTHING to provide for them. Your form of goverment, NEEDS our consent, because without our consent, how would they provide for the leaches, again. Your government FEARS, the FREE WILL of a rational human, that's why they have instituted laws to take away guns from the law abiding citizens, because they know that ONE DAY when the numbers of leaches grows and it will be necessary to loot even more, we will start to rebell, and if we don't have guns, then they can use force on us without reprecussions. That's why Thomas Jefferson said that WE, THE PEOPLE, NEED GUNS TO KEEP THE GOVERNMENT POWERS IN CHECK, TO KEEP THEM FROM ABUSING THEIR POWER AND FOCING US INTO LITERALL SLAVERY.

However, what they fear above all, and they KNOW it, but A LOT of US don't. Is that their social system WILL fall apart without a shot, when we finally withdraw. When we withdraw our labor and our minds. They will have looted everything in sight, and without the fresh inflow, their system of looting will collapse.

That's why they make examples of the few who elect to go away, like looting (eminent domain) the property of another for "development", like putting a regular joe in prison every so often for tax fraud, like the tax brakets to make sure that the more you earn, the more they forcefully take away from you, the less you have.

That day is coming. The day when the ones who want to trully live will withdraw themselfs. We will do what your "team" is terrified of. We will rally, and cut your "team" off. We will not shoot you, or harm you, or maim you. We just will not GIVE you the products of our minds and labor. Then YOUR "TEAM" can go be a good liberal and go on feeding the leaches. Where you will be getting the food? It's up to you, but you will not be looting us anymore for it. Where will you be getting the money, that's up to your "team" too. It will not be our money. However, your team WILL try the use of physical force when their threats of imprisonment and confiscation will not work anymore. Think however, whos force is more potent, the physical force of a brute with a club, or the physical force of a thinker who taugh the brute to use that club.

Poor, you can be poor all you want. Don't demand your wealth from those who posses it, make your own. Don't demand your food from those who produce it, earn it. I do not want your leaches to live off of me, just like I don't want to live off of another. I make my money, and I buy what I can with that money. I don't force my mind or my hand on another to take what I do not earn, and I don't want others to force their minds or their hand on me to take what I have earned.

So like I said, I have no kind words for those who yell in my face that they are poor and demand that I clothe them, feed them and provide a roof over their heads. I don't OWN THEM ANYTHING. "Is it ever proper to help another man? No, if he demands it as his right or as a duty that you owe him. Yes, if it's your own free choice based on your judgment of the value of that person and his struggle."

Your "team" needs peolpe like me or it will DIE, my "team" will live just fine, without yours.

And Chavis, stay out.

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quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

quote:

Originally posted by Darkling:

quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

BS Darkling.

So stop with BS Darkling. Yeah, people can be poor, but it's UP TO THEM to pull through,

So what specifically did I say that is BS? that it takes time to get out of Poverty? ...


The BS is that A LOT, never get out of poverty.
And WHERE did I say that A LOT never get out of poverty? It's a known fact that 80% of the people who where poor 5 years ago are no longer poor, and 90% after 10 years are no longer poor.

What I said is that MOST of the poor are NOT Lazy asses that sit around doing nothing about their situation, I NEVER said that A LOT never get out of poverty, I challenge you to find WHERE I said that?

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quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

The BS is that A LOT, never get out of poverty. Even when provided with choices, they would STILL sit on their behinds, getting money that was robbed from me by the government, rather than work and EARN their living. why would you go to work and earn $1500 a month, if you can sit at home and get $400 a month in cash, $400 a month in food stamps AND a section 8 appartment.

By the way you seem to contradict yourself here. In One breath, you're saying that "It's BS that a lot never get out of Poverty" and in the next breath you're saying that "even if given choices they would still sit on their behinds".

So which is it, the poor are a bunch of listless lazy asses sucking you dry, or they're a group of industrious people that eventually get out of poverty?

You can't have it both ways.

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What's my "team", exactly?

Did you read my post? I'm trying to find any way that your monologue could be considered a response to anything that I (me, not "them dang liberals") said.

I'll help you:

You know, as humans we're not limited to binary, black/white, on/off thinking.

- That's just a fact. I'm basically objecting to the whole Liberal/Conservative dichotomy that peolple artificially impose on an individual's ideas so that they can stop listening to them.

"My team is better than yours."

Yeah, see you at homecoming...

- this would be called sarcasm. I'm comparing that kind of thinking to High School Football rivalries. Sorry, didn't mean to be too subtle.

Wealth, while related to hard work, is not a direct result of it. Luck and initial circumstances have a lot of power.

- This is actually exactly what I expressed. Read it a few times and don't add anything that I did not say.

I don't believe in equal opportunity, or in Santa (but if you see him, don't tell him I said that).

- I've never seen either one. The last part was suppossed to be cute. (Still, don't tell him that I said that.)

Please note I've not expressed my opinion on welfare or anyone's Mom.

- This was suppossed to help black and white thinkers understand that just because I object to the idea that work = wealth, I had in no way endorsed or objected to a "welfare state". I did not address it at all. Trying to understand how that was too subtle.

Basically, I have no interest in sectarian, dogmatic arguments in which one is expected to defend the views of another, just because an opinion given puts them on one side or another of some line drawn in someone else's head.

Am I really that hard to understand?

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quote:

That's just a fact. I'm basically objecting to the whole Liberal/Conservative dichotomy that peolple artificially impose on an individual's ideas so that they can stop listening to them.


Now THIS is the attitude to have when in a debate. I don't want my ideas discounted simply because I'm a conservative, or a Republican, or a "Bushie"... I want you to tell me WHY I am incorrect from your point of view.

When discussing "poor people", you always run the risk of generalizing in such a way that seems an off-hand dismissal of a large group of people, and lacking compassion.

But recognizing the danger, I still say that there is common thread among most poor people. It is not laziness in my opinion, but an ill-formed sense of entitlement, bred from the immoral and undignified social experiment known as the welfare state. In essence, it is almost brain-washing. In this country, we have people who are third and fourth generation welfare recipients. They don't know what it is to NOT be poor, to NOT receive hand-outs, and certainly can't fathom having to work for their food, seeing as how that concept has been neatly removed from their culture from one genration to the next. What they have known from infancy, and what they pass on to their children, are the absolute logical fallacies that run counter to the very human desire to achieve, to excel, and to succeed. What should be obvious - that if you don't work, you don't eat; and the harder you do work, the better you will live, has been muddied through misguided, albeit initially well-intentioned, attempts to artificially supplant the human will to survive with hand-outs and freebies. Cite all of the examples you want, but the indisputable fact is that every human being, regardless of race, color, social status, culture, or country, has within him or her the power to rise above one's own circumstances and ACHIEVE FOR THEMSELVES.

The biggest sin of liberalism (apologies to my liberal friends) is that it has imbued the poor of society with a sense that they are entitled to things they did not earn. Furthermore, they have diverted the energy of the economic lower class from where it should be: wholly focused on remedying what could very easily be a TEMPORARY condition; i.e. poverty, and instead have shifted the focus to what has become the greatest social divider: class envy. How often is the "poor card" played in D.C., with the lies of tax cuts for the rich? How many times are we told that the poor will be the victims of whatever legislation Congress attempts to enact for the betterment of ALL of society?

I sincerely try to separate politics from poverty, but the sad fact is that the political motivation of the left is what has turned poverty into a acceptable condition. Any human being whose rationale has been untainted by pretentious and false logic from the left would have the dignity to be ashamed to need his or her fellow man to pay their way through life, and consequently divert all of their attention to rising above poverty, not dwelling in it. Instead the poor are assured the continuance of the immoral taking from the "rich", who they are taught, is essentially anyone who has more money then them. How could a sense of entitlement not be born under such conditiotns.

As for the answer, I'm afraid that to fix what damage has been done through the welfare state would involve an abolishment of the very culture the poor have come to rely upon as pre-ordained. And it would serve as a VERY rude awakening for those who have been taught a lie their whole lives. The vast majority would recover from the shock, pick themselves up, and become productive memebers of society. The few who are unable to recover would have to rely on the very thing that liberalism has been weeding out of society through their socialist policies - the unsolicited and un-mandated charity and goodwill of their fellow Americans. And you know what? I think they would be alright, too.

Apologies for the long post - I do tend to go on!

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

I don't believe in equal opportunity, or in Santa (but if you see him, don't tell him I said that).

- I've never seen either one. The last part was suppossed to be cute. (Still, don't tell him that I said that.)


LMAO!

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quote:

Originally posted by Kung-Fu Massa:

This thread is starting to get kinda violent.

Yeah, one trout smack to Chavis for the direct insult. Congrats to everyone else for ignoring it. What's that phrase? I support a hand up and not a hand out.

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Guest Remo Williams

quote:

Originally posted by Cmdr Chavik:

quote:

Originally posted by Kung-Fu Massa:

This thread is starting to get kinda violent.

Yeah, one trout smack to Chavis for the direct insult. Congrats to everyone else for ignoring it. What's that phrase? I support a hand up and not a hand out.


Ouch, just seen that I think someone needs a time out.

Thanks for making me re-read the topic Chavik now I have a headache. LOL!

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quote:

Originally posted by Kung-Fu Massa:

This thread is starting to get kinda violent.

Sorry, if I pulled it that way. It gets my hackles up when someone lables me and expects me to defend positions I never expressed.

Chavis and Soback, my "homecoming" remarks were aimed at both of you. Name calling isn't nice, and when used as an excuse to stop listening/thinking... well, it is at best unproductive and at worst, dangerous.

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quote:

Originally posted by Darkling:

She applied and got government assistance, to the tune of around $400.00 a month from Welfare plus another $400.00 a month in Food Stamps, plus Medicaid. Shortly thereafter, she got a job at a factory, paying what was then Minimum Wage, $2.50Hr. (This was in the 70's). As soon as she told Wefare, they cut off ALL Assistance except $200.00 in Food Stamps. WOW, that REALLY helps, you see someone trying to make it on their own, and you ***** slap them back into place! Shortly after that I got very sick, and my Mom had no choice but to quit her Job so she can get the Medicaid again to pay for the Doctors. Well after this, my Mom wised up, she ended up getting 2 under the table Jobs that she didn't report to the government and saved up enough to buy a run down hunk of junk of a home, that needed new walls, Electrical, Plumbing and a Roof. It was $2500.00. As soon as we were able to make the 1st Floor Livable, we moved in and My Mom got off Government Assistance, it was the Proudest day of her life, also keep in mind that my Father NEVER sent us a dime. Within about another 2 years, we were able to fix up the 1st floor to "Rentable Status" and moved up to the 2nd Floor (Takes Money to make Money). Another year and the 2nd Floor was ready to be rented out, and once the 3rd floor was ready another year later she bought aother run down place to start over.

Point is, the Government does NOTHING to help you get out of Poverty, they don't allow you to save, you try to work and instead of rewarding you for becoming a tax paying citizen, they cut you off, no matter what your situation is and how little you're making. Also keep in mind that my mother had to leave us alone for her night Job because we got home from After School Care at 5:30PM, but she didn't get home until Noon. With Today's laws, she would have been prosecuted for Neglect.

So what were her choices? Stay on the system forever? Get off the system and watch her kids starve? Or Cheat a bit, so she could get out without us starving to death. But I'm sure to you she was just another Welfare Queen.

I have NOTHING but respect for your mother, she worked the system in order to SUCCEED and get off of it.

THe fact is, the system is set up so that if you are starting to be successful, they PULL you back down.

People in your mothers circumstances with the drive etc, SHOULD be helped, she should have been able to do EXACTLY what she did, WITHOUT having to cheat the system.

The system should have HELPED her to get OUT of the system, instead of trying to trap her.

The system is BAD, it is built so that those that created it, can be reelected, and have more power.

If people are actually HELPED, and GET OUT of the system, what are the creators to do? They lose their base, EVERY time someone gets out of thier public assistance trap.

She knew it was a trap, but HAD to have it, I know it is trap, which is WHY I refuse to do it EVER.

The system is the problem, and some of the people in the system, who DON'T WANT to get out of it.

Again, I have NOTHING but respect for your mother, she knew the trap, didn't have a choice, cheated, and was able to empower herself.

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Darkling, there are no contradictions in my posts. If you see any, check your premises.

When I say it's BS, I mean it literally. Those who don't get out of poverty are poor because of: lazziness, lack of intelligence, lack of drive to succeed, social system that permits them to remain poor, many other reasons, and any combination of them. See the BS? I am not going to cut anyone any slack, if someone tries to say that they are poor, and are entitled to help, BS.

So when you say:

"By the way you seem to contradict yourself here. In One breath, you're saying that "It's BS that a lot never get out of Poverty" and in the next breath you're saying that "even if given choices they would still sit on their behinds".

I say, check your premises. I am not contradicting myself, because I mean what I say literally. I mean NOT that it's untrue (BS) that a lot never get out of poverty, but that it's true and it's BS as in BAD. And that even when people are given choices, they still chose to sit on their behinds, because those choices involve WORK, and HARD WORK at that. When I say that, I don't generalize, I have had PERSONAL experiences with people like that. I despise them, and chose not to deal with them altogether.

----Darkling posted: "So which is it, the poor are a bunch of listless lazy asses sucking you dry, or they're a group of industrious people that eventually get out of poverty? "

It is a bunch of poor, listless, lazy, sucking me dry. Those who have the drive, the work ethic to better themselfs, who build on what they have rather then sit in their own cesspool, and who don't live off of the money the government took away from me, I have no problem with.

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Prez, your comments were well expressed (and not insulting, woo hoo!). I can't say I'm on board with you 100%, but I cannot deny the validity of the idea that by enabling people to actually survive in "poverty" removes the motivation to leave poverty. I must admit that my sympathy is with the working poor, not the sitting around poor. Yes, yes, some people really do have trouble finding work, but it doesn't take long to recognize the ones who are trully looking. They get up.

What gets me going is the way that the poor saps who are struggling to make ends meet are getting nickel and dimed to death. Any time they start to get ahead, the haves find a way to squeeze a little more out of the have-nots. Current gas prices are a handy example. I think most would agree that what we're seeing is more a result of the price rising to meet what the market can bear more than the result of a real shortage. I don't think that the ratio of supply to demand has altered by the same precentage that the prices have jumped (am I being as clear as mud?) This drives all prices up and forces some honest hard working people to work more, and see their families less. Mandating car insurance is another example. Sure, it really does help you when some bozo rear ends you, but it's lining someone's pocket. I'm willing to bet not the pockets that need it most.

And I can't get away from the belief that the accident of what family/community you're born into has more to do with your life long earnings than the amount you sweat. There are definitely anecdotal examples of people making quantum leaps in economic status (early captains of industry, certain innovative and lucky individuals today), but I believe that statistically they are negligible. I'll admit to not having done the math to back this up, but I hope you see my point.

Does the welfare state do more harm then good? As it's currently structured, probably. You gotta teach a man to fish, not hand him a tuna sandwhich. teach him and, maybe, give the dude a net.

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I would like to make it a LOT harder to get government assistance, you have to be permanently disabled, or something like that to even think about getting government assistance.

[/qoute]

what about those people who cannot afford to go to a college should it be harder for them to get help?

Me currently i am poor yes poor poor poor. But i also work hard and try my best at everything I currently am studying for my CCNA (self study) because i am even to poor to go to a community college i could get government help but i wouldnt know where to start or what grant to pick. All the grant sites i go to want you to buy a book on how to get a grant hows that going to help me?

The only site i'v been to grants.gov i think is the one with all the grants on it but even then the grants don't say anything about schooling or anything they all have like biological study or something like that on them.

But my point is making it harder to get government help wouldnt do everyone good.

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quote:

Originally posted by UnderLord:

I would like to make it a LOT harder to get government assistance, you have to be permanently disabled, or something like that to even think about getting government assistance.

[/qoute]

what about those people who cannot afford to go to a college should it be harder for them to get help?

Me currently i am poor yes poor poor poor. But i also work hard and try my best at everything I currently am studying for my CCNA (self study) because i am even to poor to go to a community college i could get government help but i wouldnt know where to start or what grant to pick. All the grant sites i go to want you to buy a book on how to get a grant hows that going to help me?

The only site i'v been to grants.gov i think is the one with all the grants on it but even then the grants don't say anything about schooling or anything they all have like biological study or something like that on them.

But my point is making it harder to get government help wouldnt do everyone good.

Don't apply for government grants through those bogus sites that sell you a book.

Here's how. Go to your community college, or the college you think you want to attend, or a trade school (a school that gives you a certificate instead of a degree, and teaches you a certain trade), and THEY, the school itself is familiar with all the grants the government offers for their students.

Helping someone get an education is the BEST way to help. When they get that education, they have bettered themselfs, and they will not leach off of the public.

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quote:

Originally posted by Soback:

Don't apply for government grants through those bogus sites that sell you a book.

Here's how. Go to your community college, or the college you think you want to attend, or a trade school (a school that gives you a certificate instead of a degree, and teaches you a certain trade), and THEY, the school itself is familiar with all the grants the government offers for their students.

Don't you just love it? It has gotten to the point where you have to lead them by the hand.

It really isn't thier fault, the government has made it as HARD as possible to get out of the Poverty, but if they REALLY wanted it, they could do it, just as Darklings Mom WANTED to do it...

[ 09-08-2005, 11:53 PM: Message edited by: Remo Williams ]

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I'll tell ya. If a person wants to come up in the world, I will help him out based exactly on how much he is willing to put into it. If he is just ranting how it's hard, and impossible, and bad, I will tell him to go rot.

If however he asks me, "Hey, could you please help me with this." and he wants it SO BAD that I can taste it. I will help him, at the very least I will get in return the satisfaction of dealing with a competent human being.

I DO NOT, want my money to go towards the leaches. I DO NOT want to be looted of what I earn. The people who are recieving those benefits from my money, I would rather have them starve then give them a cent. I have NO compassion for those who keep getting medical, food stamps and payments, month after month, YEAR AFTER YEAR.

Basically, this is what I am saying:

"Is it ever proper to help another man? No, if he demands it as his right or as a duty that you owe him. Yes, if it's your own free choice based on your judgment of the value of that person and his struggle. "

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Psirat:

I will grant you that if your last name is "Forbes", than you are more likely to avoid poverty throughout your life. But how many of us know rich brats with NO character whatsoever because everything in life was handed to them on a silver platter? These people are poor, too, just not monetarily.

I would not trade my "daily grind" kind of life for anything, because it's mine, and while it may not amount to much compared to some, everything I have accomplished in my life, I have done so on my own (with the strong back and brain that God gave me, of course...) That makes it special, imo. No handouts. No rich parents. No long lost uncles or inheritances. Just good friends and a good wife.

How many people win the lottery, and still die miserable? How many even have a penny to left to their name when they die? Is poor a condition, or is it an attitude? I bet you could walk into a ghetto anywhere in America, hand each and every resident there a million dollars, and half of them would be right back there within a year. I say, give a man back his dignity, and let him make his OWN million.

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Don't buy the book. Don't buy the scholarship book, don't buy the government auction book, don't buy the get rich quick in real estate book. Don't buy none of those damn books.

While Jag and Soback may be against total welfare those books are sold buy people who prey on the poor. Those are the worst kind of scum in my opinion. Don't throw good money after bad.

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Total wellfare.

Show me a "person" who is for total wellfare. He would fit perfectly on my balcony, in a cage. Well taken care of, fed, given his shots. He will be getting the same total wellfare that my turtle has. Of course, the above sounds like one would take care of a pet, an animal, and I will treat him as such. Show my new pet to my friends, and be poking him with a stick for entertainment, when I get tired of him just laying there, in total, peacefull, wellfare.

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Thanks for making this civil again folks Much more of a pleasant read now!

Just putting in my two cents worth: I hit upon very, very hard times during the dot com bust. I worked two jobs (temp assignments) -- plus whatever freelancing I could do -- for a few years there. Despite that, I wasn't making enough to keep us out of the negatives. My wife was in a similar spot.

We are both educated people. We know how the world works. But all that hard work, all those hundreds -- maybe thousands -- of resumes we sent out, isn't worth a damn.

The way I see it, it all comes down to this formula:

1) As a result of your dogged, irrational persistence, probability dictates that your resume/application shows up to the right person, who is in the right mood, at the right time.

2) You are either vaguely qualified or know someone who can vouch for you.

3) You get extremely damn lucky as some stupid ass HR software tries really hard to filter you out.

4) You pass the credit and criminal history checks.

5) You pass the series of face to face interviews to prove you aren't a freak.

6) You flip a coin.

That's it. A sequence of events pretty much like what I just described is how I got my job. In fact, it literally came down to myself and one other person. The reason I got the job? We were both asked to create a certain type of document.

HERS HAD SPELLING ERRORS.

That's *IT*. If she had thought to spell check, I would still be looking for a bloody job. Bah.

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I have NOT put together a resume', I have not had to pass a criminal background check, I have not had to do ANY of those things.

I found what I wanted to do, and DID, relying on NO ONE else but me!!

It has taken me 3 years to get to a point where I could actually pay the rent without worrying, it has taken me 3 years to show a profit, it has taken me 3 years to be able to say, PHEW, I am MAKING it, but I have DONE it, without help from the government, without creating some ridiculous resume so that I could work for someone else.

I did it, for myself,BY MYSELF, and yeah, I was broke, YEAH, I was POOR!! But I pulled myself out of it.

I refuse to allow ANYONE to again have control over my living, I WORK for myself, and if I don't make enough money, it is MY fault, but at the same time, I do NOT depend ON ANYONE in order to feed my family, except MYSELF!!

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quote:

Originally posted by Kung-Fu Massa:

...

6) You flip a coin.

That's it. A sequence of events pretty much like what I just described is how I got my job. In fact, it literally came down to myself and one other person. The reason I got the job? We were both asked to create a certain type of document.

HERS HAD SPELLING ERRORS.

That's *IT*. If she had thought to spell check, I would still be looking for a bloody job. Bah.

This is how Life is, but the trick is not to Flip the coin only once and say "Oh well, I lost" you keep flipping that dammed coin over and over again until you get the results that you wanted. I've started around a dozen businesses in my life and all but the last 2 ended up being liquidated or in bankruptcy, you keep trying, keep trying, keep trying and most of all IGNORE WTF EVERYONE ELSE SAYS. And THAT my friend is how you make a success of yourself. Was I lucky, You're dammed right I was lucky, but I was lucky because I kept putting myself at the right place, at the right place, at the right place, and the right place, at the right place, at the right place then finally BAMM, Right place, Right Time and that was it.

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This thread shows everything that is wrong with this country right here. Some people agree some disagree but you know what its those people that don't want to try there hardest to help one person improve there life that is holding everyone back.

Instead of talking about "what it is to be poor" go out and help a homeless man don't talk about it. You might have been poor once in your life. You pulled yourself out of it but how are others sopost to pull them selfs out if no one will help them? I mean most people here had some type of financial help or some type of motivation go out and give that type of motivation or even a little financial help to someone who is poor and willing to improve there life.

Sometimes its sad what people think they might think they are right but sometimes they couldnt be farther from the truth.

This is sad.....THE END......I SAID THE END!

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