BCM Subscription Model

[Supreme Cmdr]

When you read today's dev update if you have any thoughts, post them here.

[Salnas]

Just to make sure I read right, boss.

The subscription would give me the game as it is as of now, and access to all the updates and the like. And then, when it's all done, I would get the finall boxed version?

For someone like me, one of the most impatient fans out there, this sounds like a damned good deal. Now...how to deal with the fact that I already pre-payed EB?

[Supreme Cmdr]

Yes.

The payment is still made through EB or BMT, as normal. That won't change.

As I said, nothing is final yet, and EB may very well have concerns and ideas of their own. Since they do have the North American retail rights for the first 90-days (with a view to extending it), it will be up to them to determine what to do on their end. Naturally, since they're my business partners, I won't do anything (at least not in North America), without their approval.

The end result is that, this is no different from what Best Buy is doing by having you buy the empty Max Payne box....in the hope that a product actually emerges.

With BCM, you already have a product and though it will cost me more (I get to chew the costs of the subscription CD-ROM, you pay the postage), you get a CD-ROM shipped to you. And when the game is Gold, you get your boxed unit shipped as normal. Since the final game will invalidate all Beta file formats, no, you don't end up with two copies of the game.

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[WarpCore]

Sounds Good to me.

This seems like the ideal situation for just about everyone. Some of the bugs in the VCF sound a bit tricky to swat! At least we can get the code that is completed and working in the meantime.

I say go for it SC!

[Kush]

You can do whatever you like, but personally I'm waiting for the final version.

It's not a bad idea. You can create a small revenue stream while working on the gold release. I'd worry a little about copies floating around the internet. You might lose some potential revenue to people burning off a massive number of copies and handing them off to friends.

If it was me, I'd make everyone suffer. The wait won't be that long now, and the wait will be worth it.

[Supreme Cmdr]

I won't be doing it for the money.

All CD-ROMs will be protected using Safe Disc 2.0. Sure, it won't stop the pros, but it will help to stop the casuals.

[Epsilon 5]

Excellent. -Monty Burns

I'll try to have money for it.

Will we be tied by the NDA? Will we be able to act like the beta testers and report odd issues?

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Will we be tied by the NDA?

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No

quote:

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Will we be able to act like the beta testers and report odd issues?

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You won't be testers and won't have access to the secure Beta forum. But, you will still be able to download updates and if something pops up that is not in the VCF, you can still post it in the tech support forum.

[Cmdr Nova]

IMO, you should do whatever you want. In your position, I'd go for it, though. Doing that should keep those impatient critics down long enough to get the game out at it's best possible release quality.

Yay! BC3K is freeware! I only played one of it's demos. This is definitely a good thing to keep me from exploding with wait!

[ 07-17-2001: Message edited by: Cmdr Nova ]

[Salnas]

Well boss, count me in! I'll let you talk to EB about getting us that already payed a way to get the subscription, after they agree to all this that is

[quantum]

My thought is to do what you want. You'll have detractors either way. The fan's will appreciate the subscription though!

[Cmdr Nova]

Salnas, he didn't say he WOULD do it. He's thinking of doing it, right now. Wether he goes through, or not is his choice.

Either way, I'm behind you, SC. Although it would be really nifty to see how development is going......

[Soback]

So, I pay for the shipping of the first cd, what about when the game goes gold, will I need to pay for the second shipping or will it be shipped free, or do I just drop by the EB and show them the cd that was shipped to me to pick up the boxed version?

[Kush]

Actually, another reason I'd hold back on the release is tech support. You release it and these forums are going to be swamped with newbie questions. It may get hard to keep the noise level down enough to hear real honest to goodness tech concerns. I'd hold on, it's what a month, or two. That's nothing compared to the years of development it's taken so far.

I hate to be the lone killjoy, I really want to get my hands on this game as much as anybody. I'm just giving ya my two cents.

[Soback]

Good point.

[Cmdr Nova]

That IS a good point.

Then again, there hasn't a very big increase in newbies here. I remember how I joined the forum right before the Episode 1 Demo came out. So did around 250 other users. Then, after that, around 80% stopped coming here. Same with E2, (only around 75-125 newbies though), and then most just quit.

Whatever huge traffic we'll get, I'm sure we can handle it. The majority will only follow the release for 1 week to 3 1/2 weeks at the most. I mean, most of us current users have already been helping with newbies just arriving after E2, so there should be enough of us here to sort it out. Then, whatever percentage would like to become part of the online community, stay.

Hmmm. SC, I think you should just decide on your personal preference, or even gut feeling if you want. Both have their ups and downs, but if I were the man, I'd do the subscription thing.

And a question, if you do bring about the subscription thing, how will pre-ordered buyers handle the situation?

[Guest]

I don't mean to sound like a kill joy either, but this sounds like a logistical nightmare, I know that you wouldn't say something if you knew you couldn't do it, but the time this would take from the developement, is it going to push it further out, or would it be better to let them download the 2.09 and then when BCM is released they have a general idea of the gameplay etc.?

I say, let them download the free full version of 2.09 and wait for BCM to go gold, you've got enough on your plate then to worry about a bunch of impatient people and figuring out who gets what to whom for how many cookies.

Just my 2 cents and probably worth less.

[Cmdr Nova]

Actually i doubt it would take the time from dev, because it's just like mailing full game beta test cd's to new testers. Although we don't get the beta tester priviliges, it's still extremely similar due to the cd mailing, and the updates online.

The only way it could take from the dev time, is if there were so many subscriptions, that they would have to take time from development to make up for the huge want for those subscription cd's. And the fact that the 3000ad server would most likely crash when all those users want to download updates.

I like the way you think Jaguar. If SC does have the resources to do it, he should. It's just a question of his preference, and IF 3000ad has the extra resources and manpower to ship out those cds and keep everything running smooth. Nothing a Smart man can't handle (pun intended).

[loftisr]

Wow!

Can't wait for GOLD.... but will! Take your time some of us want a game that RUNS out of the box

Great Job!

[Põdi]

I'm normally an impatient man, but for once I can be like Job. I prefer a completed game straight out of the box (metaphorically speaking, as I've ordered through BMT). This is purely a personal point of view. Jaguar and Kush have raised some valid points why not to do it. I know SC is not one to listen to critics, but can you imagine all the vultures out there waiting for the opportunity to shoot down this version, purely because it's 3000AD? Yes, I know and you know it won't be the final version, but those kind of people are blind and deaf to such simple things like that. I say wait till the final release then show everybody out there what we already know, that BC:M is going to blow yours socks off.

[Wolferz]

Well, SC, it sounds like a plan. A very ingenious plan actually.

A great many concerns have been posted about the possible cons. From what I have seen so far, it really shouldn't be a problem for the following reasons.

1. BMT will take care of the CD stamping and shipping, so the SC might spend a whole ten minutes sending them the code. No dev time lost there.

2. Downloads of the updates can and probably will be mirrored. No major hit to this site.

3. As for the forums turning into a din. I think there are enough of us hardcore fans here to handle any influx of newbs. And I guarantee it won't take them long to either get with the program or get out. Airlocks can be such handy devices when it's time to take out the garbage. Been whisked out of one a few times myself.

SC, you da man!

I have heard so much drivel coming from other developers who were stupid enough to spout off about their work being ready when it's ready, then disappear when the publisher takes their work and shoves it out the door unfinished and half tested.

As an example for any and all would be detractors to your idea, SC, allow me to relate a recent experience.

Imagine a very talented group of developers who created a recently released flight sim. They had a great idea and the balls to run with it, even though the program was definitely going to be a niche market thing.

One of the fans set up a great website devoted to a game that was still a long way from the proposed gold date. The developers came to the forums often, touting what was to be the flight sim by which all other flight sims would be measured. They told us of all the features they had planned. They invited us to share our names and the names of loved ones to be included in the game. They accepted feedback and ideas from members of the community, to be incorporated into the game. We all had very high hopes. Then.....The Crap Thickens.

Enter the PUBLISHER.

The development had bogged down. The gold date had become multiple gold dates. They came and went like summer showers.

The publisher had already tossed a large sum of money into what they would naturally start to consider a black hole. So, they start putting the squeeze on the developers. "We don't care what you have or where you are in your development. Give us something to sell. NOW!

And off it goes to the publishers private little crew of beta testers, a select few in the media, and a very select list of members of the fan site previously mentioned.

A bug bug here. A bug bug there. Here a bug. There a bug. Everywhere a bug bug.

Lots of bugs and features that weren't ready.

The developers knew it. The beta testers knew it. The select few knew it. The publisher knew it. The only one who didn't care was, you guessed it, the publisher. They shipped the game incomplete and barely tested.

The outcry from the fan site was (even though bulletin boards don't make a sound) deafening. Naturally, the once chatty developers were now nowhere to be seen. Most likely because their contract with the publisher wouldn't let them say another word.

Now it's two patches later and the game still runs like crap. Some of the missing features were implemented, but they didn't add anything to the game except more bugs.

The first patch was given to the fan site. The fan site got hammered to the point of having their bandwidth curtailed. Mirrors were added to handle the load. One month later, the patch finally made it onto the game's official website. To this date the second patch has never been posted to the official site.

Bottom line. All the fans of this particular game got screwed, blued, and tattoed by this publisher. What did it cost them? Well, they lost me as a future buyer of any of their products. The mere mention of this publishers name fills me with disgust and loathing.

SC, you have everything riding on this and I can see you hanging ten all the way to the bank. I know you will follow your heart and do the right thing. Not only for yourself, but for the fans of Battle Cruiser as well. That much is a no brainer.

If that yo yo thinks he's been screwed because you haven't released your title by such and such date, send him this post. 700 times.

[Supreme Cmdr]

heh, after reading Wolf's post, I don't think I need add anything. Sending out CD-ROMs is not my issue. All I have to do, is what I normally do - send BMT Micro a master CD-ROM and they handle everything. Thats what we did for the BC3K v1.x to v2.0x upgrade.

And no, it doesn't take away any dev time, because its not like I'm taking a detour to do a special version or anything.

All existing EB/BMT orders will remain as-is. All that will happen is, as soon as someone gives the OK to switch to a sub model, their credit cards will get billed for the product. A CD-ROM (the manuals will be on it, too) will then be sent out. Once the game is Gold, a boxed version will also go out. We would still have to work out the shipping+handling. The sub CD-ROM will go out for free via USPS regular mail. And the boxed version will go out based on whatever shipping method was selected when it was ordered. If someone wants the sub CD-ROM faster, then they'd have to pay the extra shipping costs. IF EB do want to do this in NA, then you could theoretically walk into any EB and pick up a sub CD-ROM. If you have a pending order, you get it for free - if you don't, you pay for it and keep your receipt. Once the game is out, you go back to the store and pick up your box.

If anyone else has any suggestions, I'd like to hear them.

[Guest $iLk]

Not that it matters but I am just curious - is this a response to the eMail bombing you recieved or is it because Battlecruiser Millennium may have a couple of months left before release?

I do understand that the wait is hard for all of us, but the finished product will be worth it. As for the idea of releasing a sub-cd? I think it is a good idea if the game is gonna take a while longer - so long as you feel that will shut up alot of your critics.

I don't find myself drooling for a sub cd either way unless I knew the game was gonna take awhile, and it looks like your bugs are getting squashed one at a time pretty well.

It does seem to me that release may be sometime in august though, at the rate of bug smashing. Either way I will purchase the game... (duh... )

As for questions on details of this cd,

With the orders we have already in place, will we automatically be shipped a cd or do we apply?

The updates will strain your ISP bill right?

The sub-cd will have PDF manuals, what about the boxed version?

You do know that if you offer this and EB goes along with it, you will have a hell of a lot of orders ?

Well that's about it, I know it is all up to you and EB what you want to do, and there are probably other ideas you could toy with... so we await the decision.

Thanks for your loyalty to your fan base, you are no doubt an inspiration to those developers on this forum who want to design games.

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Not that it matters but I am just curious - is this a response to the eMail bombing you recieved or is it because Battlecruiser Millennium may have a couple of months left before release?

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It has nothing to do with the mail bomb. It has to do with gamers who DON'T want to wait. Anybody who wants to wait, needed be concerned about this issue.

[aramike]

OK, now that I've got a few minutes and an opinion, here's my take: don't do it.

While it may be a good way to appease some people and draw some quick revenue, it may also cause more problems that it is worth.

Some problems worth noting:

• While you did say that they wouldn't have two copies of the game because the file formats would be invalidated, I still would have to say that they WOULD have two copies of the game -- just not two FINAL copies. And unless you put something earth-shattering in the final version that isn't in the subscription updates, there'll be hardly any difference between the two. So, what happens is you leave yourself HUGELY open to piracy, etc -- not a good idea considering the detractors. Or...

• You COULD set up a serial number/unlock code/expiration date deal for the sub, but I would imagine that if you did, you'd hardly have time to work on completing the game. Unless, of course, you hired a company to handle such things or to set up an automated system, but that would be more money out of your pocket and it certainly wouldn't be cheap.

• You could only send a box and a final manual instead of the final CD to the subscribers. That wouldn eliminate all the aforementioned problems ... BUT, some would surely be pissed.

• The natural retail boost that every product gets upon release would be lost along with the associated revenue. May not matter to you but it would matter to me so I figured I'd point it out.

• There will surely be some that don't realize that the title is WIP and that may cause more spam than you are already receiving. Unless, of course, you want to set up a tech support department to handle those request. However, it is most likely that it would draw you away from the actual development of the game.

Well, those are my thoughts. Take 'em or leave 'em.