162 replies to this topic

[AWells]

quote:

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It's actually closer to 3-4 hrs in RL depending on conditions...but I digress. I spent 4 yrs in the army infantry. I really don't want to play a game that gives me flashbacks to the hours I spent on patrols and OPs. Who wants to play a game where you have to sleep in shifts waiting for the attack?

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WWIIOnline comes to mind, though you didn't have to spend 3 to 4 hours getting to an objective... only if you wanted to get there quietly without drawing the attention of the hordes of tanks. Of course since WWIIOnline is a MMOG, and you get into action pretty fast if you wanted, it worked well. I certainly wouldn't suggest those kinds of wait times for BCM or BCG MP.

[chrismoney7]

The wait time in WW2OL was the best time there. I drove the truck and i got to listen and talk in this great conversation about tactics and other stuff. Only i talked too much and one time
"accidentally" drove the truck off a cliff into the canyon filled with sharp jagged rocks below. Everyone died and they blamed it on me. After that I switched from allies to axis because all of the allies team killed me.

[ 10-26-2002, 12:54 AM: Message edited by: TheBunny ]

[chrismoney7]

One more thing. Sorry if its been asked already. I've been posting on forums for the last 15 hours and its 1 in the morning and I havent had my coffee.

ANYWAY

The one thing that bugged me the most about WW2OL was that you could not leave the vehicle. Could you exit the vehicle in BCM MP?

[AWells]

quote:

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The wait time in WW2OL was the best time there. I drove the truck and i got to listen and talk in this great conversation about tactics and other stuff. Only i talked too much and one time
"accidentally" drove the truck off a cliff into the canyon filled with sharp jagged rocks below. Everyone died and they blamed it on me. After that I switched from allies to axis because all of the allies team killed me.

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Truck driving was one of my favorite occupations over there. I think I'll spend much of my time in MP flying shuttles for that reason. It's always a blast when you get everybody to the target area safely and undetected. Of course, there was the minor problem in WWIIOnline in that everybody thinks you're a spy or a greifer if a random bullet happens to take them out, or any other circumstances that causes them to respawn.

quote:

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The one thing that bugged me the most about WW2OL was that you could not leave the vehicle. Could you exit the vehicle in BCM MP?

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It bugged me, too. Rest assured, you can get in and out vehicles in BCM MP. I'm not entirely positve how it will work, but my impression is that you will spawn in FP mode and then have to get into a vehicle if one is available. What vehicles you have access to is based on your career choice.

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by TheBunny:
The one thing that bugged me the most about WW2OL was that you could not leave the vehicle. Could you exit the vehicle in BCM MP?

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It obviously didn't bug you enough or you would've gleamed this info from the FAQ I posted.

[CedricB]

I've played more than enough Operation Flashpoint to see the whole "steal the transport" played and replayed. I feel your pain. On with the show....

AI Transports:
The concept of the regularly running transports is a great idea, at first. It gives those players stranded a way to get from base to base. However, one problem is the difficulty in shooting them down. Set too high and they make defense almost impossible, too weak and offense get's the disadvantage. The strength should be carefully tested to see the equilibrium point for unit strength.

Would the AI transports just mindlessly continue along their waypoint path even if they are attacked? That's the real deciding factor. If they simply move like trains, I as a player wouldn't bother with the system. It's too predictable. If you know where the transport is going to be at a certain time, it invites disaster. The North Vietnamese knew that American planes were ALWAYS spaced at certain time intervals. They'd just look at their watches, fill the sky with AA, and watch the clock again. They didn't even have to aim. These are going to be the most heavily attacked objects in the game. Although players can jump off the transport at any time and sustain minor injuries, this leaves them in the middle of nowhere under enemy air assets. It becomes a game of "protect the transport" with "destroying the enemy base" as a secondary objective. Unless the transports are totally ignored and then they serve no purpose but to eat up more CPU cycles.

Detection and Travel Times:
Although they seem like seperate subjects, they are more interlinked than first realized. If you know that the attack is coming, you can prepare. If you know where the enemy is (or in the case of AI transports, where he is going to be), then you can ambush him. If the bases are 5 minutes away, but you detect an attack when it's 3 minutes away, the attackers are simply traveling to their doom. Decrease the detection time down to one minute or less, and the attackers stand much better chances. Without a way to decrease already specified detection zones, no matter the traveling times, it is a matter of speed.

WWIIOL suffered for a long time from "Truck Rushes." Only infantry can capture facilities, so everyone just filled a truck, ran into a town, caped everything and moved on. It wasn't until an extensive automated AI system was put into place that this stopped. BCM/G obviously doesn't have to deal with massive amounts of bases across a wide area, with as many players. The deciding factor here is how effective small numbers of PCs can be manning the defenses of their base. How much skill will be involved in having the weapon systems work properly? What are the capabilities of these systems? How easily are they defeated? And the most important question, what are the ranges on these weapons? Again, the problem of detection rears it's ugly head.

Although nearly every airborne craft carries an EMD, it doesn't really do anything about the sensor it's jamming. You still detect the enemy craft, although you can't get a firing solution. As long as you know where the enemy is, wether or not you can shoot is a moot point. I realize this is a two way street, but the losing side is the attacker, as he has lost the element of surprise, the defenders can prepare. There are ways to make it more balanced and spice things up. First, decoys. Being able to drop a mine of sorts that follows waypoints and looks like the craft that dropped it and self-destructs after a time could cause enough disruption to the enemy sensors that it allows the real craft to slip through. Secondly, some sort of jamming device that renders all sensors within it's range nearly useless (like what your screen looks like when you activate your EMD, plus the intermittent signals.) Although the enemy could clearly detect the jamming, not knowing from which direction the attack will come gives the attackers some advantage.

Just a few things to mull over.

[Locutus701]

Well, I'm back (of sorts)... I just graduated from college (MIS degree) on 23/November, so I'll be around more often...

This has been on my mind since the earlier days of beta...

Of course, it depends on the ability of orbital units to select precise LZs, and drop qucickly onto them from orbit (which, last I checked, was possible)...

My thoughts:

Some sort of 'deployable forward base' that could be loaded on a shuttle as a vehicle, combined with the ability to transport units of any size between friendly bases might solve this.

Scenario this creates:

Shuttle with marines & forward-area-base-vehicle blasts off from planetary base, enters orbit, and drops down into desired spot. Once there, the forward base is deployed (should take a while to come online, or something similar), and the marines defend it. Once it's up, space-incapable units can beam in from other planetary bases.

Another Idea:

Allow space-incapable vehicles of any kind to be transported in shuttles. This mirrors the present-day ability of the military to carry helicopter gunships, tanks, etc... in transport aircraft.

Scenario:
Shuttle carrying gunship, aircrew, spare ammo, and marines for parimeter defense blasts off into orbit, lands near enemy base, and deploys the gunship as if it were a tank.

In this case, the shuttle itself becomes a 'forward area rearming point' of sorts.

As for the sensor comments, IIRC the SC implemented the passive vs active sensors option to enable 'low-signature' operations. The logical end to that would be to create power-level related signature conditions (i.e. no weapons, shields, sensors, or high-power engine operations) where you are invisible to sensors at medium-to-long range (i.e. 'grey mode' or 'run silent' operations). Of course, if found in this state before you can power up, you're one dead duck (thus balancing it)...

Basically, the sort of combat that MP in this game will foster is more like modern airborne and marine operations than army combat. Drop in, kick butt, then blast off & go home... It also strikes me that this sort of gameplay will eliminate mindless-rushing and 'all-offense' games, since if your enemy is just an orbital jump away (and can approach from any angle at any time, just drop in below the SAM envelope, deploy vehicles, and attack), you can't just grab your guns and charge out the front gate (ala CS).

You asked for suggestions, SC...

[ 12-04-2002, 03:23 PM: Message edited by: Locutus ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Locutus:
You asked for suggestions, SC...

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Pretty cool suggestions. I'll bear them in mind!

[Raven]

I agree very nice suggestion.

[d8alus]

Wow, college degrees actually *do* make you smarter...can't wait to get mine!

[Locutus701]

With regard to concerns about shuttles dropping directly on a base, if you've kept your AD assets up, they'll get trashed & hashed before they can deploy anything (unless the EMD stays as effective and ever-lasting as it currently is.)... Also, as opposed to heavy reliance on DJPs (which, as fixed points, place alot of predictability into the game), the shuttle system places HEAVY reliance on teamwork and parimeter security (find the enemy LZ before they can build up enough to attack you).

On the issue of ship-jacking, I've allways been a fan of 'you can use anything, but don't expect to be any GOOD at it' style restrictions. Basically, player-based PRY (troops) and accuracy or HP modifications (pilots) so Marines don't drive well, and Pilots die real easy if they are dumb enough to play Rambo.

Plus, in the current unarmed-shuttle environment (as opposed to, say, having a 'planetary assault shuttle' with door guns instead of hyperspace capability (like the modern-day Blackhawk or Huey helicopters, which are by no means gunships, but have .30 cal door guns in case things go south while landing troops)), the Pilot should have some means to help defend his ship (i.e. at least a rifle, like the MP5-carrying helo pilots in Blackhawk Down), or he'll just dust off when things go south, and maroon his teammates...

Once again, more off-the-top suggestions...

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Locutus:
Once again, more off-the-top suggestions...

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Its all good

[Epsilon 5]

*looks at Locutus' posts*

Where DO you come from? never seen you post before And especially not good enough to get the SC's interest

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Epsilon 5:
*looks at Locutus' posts*

Where DO you come from? never seen you post before And especially not good enough to get the SC's interest

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He's a Beta tester - or didn't you notice. And they know better than to come up with anything less than interesting.

[Rosko]

heh...

[Locutus701]

Well...

I was one of those guys who generally lived inside the Beta Discussions (now Area 51) forum, and didn't step out too much...

That and I dropped the '701' from my name (it's still in my sig)...

[Wolferz]

gee EP, yOU have just been assimilated

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Wolferz:
gee EP, yOU have just been assimilated

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LOL!!

[CedricB]

Psst... Locutus..... They carry M60s (.308/7.62mm), M2s (.50 cal), or the .308/7.62 miniguns as door guns. They even have seperate windows for the gunners. American forces haven't used .30 cal MGs since Nam....

The air crew flying the aircraft rarely use their personal defense weapons. Those are provided in case they get shot down and have to defend themselves. But, there was one documented case in The Battle Of Mogadishu of a AH-6 pilot using his MP5 while rescuing a crewman from the first crash. Usually they are too busy flying the aircraft to shoot. They depend almost entirely on their door gunners to spot and eliminate ground threats.

[ 12-11-2002, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: CedricB ]

[elf24s]

re bases:
in earlier games i had played on line where object was to either wipe out or capture the base
it just was not suspenceful enough. i just would like to propose this as a scenario.

if enemy is certain to capture the base why not have a "commander" order evac and self destruction of facilities? put a "vote" option to defenders if they agree to actully commit such course of action. not only would it put more preasurre on attakers to capture facility intact but to find a "off switch" for a timed self destruct device. have some sort of vehicle that can be a mobile construction base that can be moved or moved out prior to self destruction so a new base can be build for defenders somewhere else.
enemy could try to knock it out while it is moving out putting more preassure on defenders.
this would force more cooperation between teamswether they would be defenders or offenders in given scenario.

just an idea my buddies were tossing around while messing around on some other games.

is it even viable ?