Training levels

[Kush]

I just read the interview at GA-Sim and I am very excited about the game, but also a little worried. I'm new to the BC series, and I'm a little worried about the learning curve. I know Derek you want to make a version for the hardcore fans that made the game so succesful, I know you don't want to simplify the game, and I would feel insulted if I was sold a game that was dumbed down because marketing people felt I'm too stupid to read a manual. But I also know myself. I like training missions that take me step by step through the simple things. I want to be able to master the fundamental things and then discover the deeper more complex things on my own.

Will there be step by step training missions? Will they be X-Wing style (You whatever you want, whenever you want)? Will they be Starfleet command style? (Narrated, with a more linear approach) I'm very excited about getting into this game, and discovering what it is that everyone is going crazy about, but I think I'm going to need a little help to get me started.

[aramike]

No plans for tutorials are in the works, as of my latest knowledge. You'll just have to suffice with the handy manual.

Don't worry, I'm sure that once the game is released someone from this community will put together a site the likes of GALCOM Academy.

[Wold]

I know what you are talking about. I've used the tutorial missions on other games and that kind of handi-capped me a bit when I started playing BC3K. There are no training missions there and the game does start quick!

However, playing Free Flight mode, I stayed at "home", ie areas that had friendly starstations around. Whenever enemy craft showed up the stations would launch fighters for self-defense. This extra defense allowed me time to learn the curve before tromping off into a hornets nest. If I had questions, I could save the game and check the board here for answers.

I imagine that same technique will work for BCM.

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Commodore Wold

ICV-Drakr, Spectre HQ (Antis)

Commanding Officer, Spectre HQ

Spectre Fleet

ICQ 4669033

"You can only love or hate something you truly understand"

[Kush]

I honestly think it's worth the new Battle Cruiser fans you will gain, to take the time and make a polished training mission to learn the basics. I know everyone has been waiting for this title forever, and that asking to spend more time on it may seem insane, but honestly, it would be worth it to even find someone who is good at creating single player missions, and asking them to make three or four training missions.

I think I know enough about BCM to buy it and play it anyway, but I also want to be able to convince my friends that the game is going to be fun and easy to learn so that they will all buy copies and we can play multi-player missions together. If I can do that, you've not only sold one copy, you've sold four more. But I know for a fact that it's going to be a struggle to get my friends on board if the learning curve it too steep.

I guess I'm kinda begging. Please put in a training mission. Even if it is a simple mission explaining how to use the ships weapons and sheilds, and how to move around from place to place, and then leave the rest to us. Please. (Okay, I am begging.)

[Joel Schultz]

I dunno. With all the various play modes that are promised wherein you can pick your caste/career and asset, it seems to me you ought to be able to pick something much lower on the learning curve than a commander career in a MK 3 Battlecruiser. Want to learn how to run ground ops? Play as a marine. Want to learn general navigation without the hassle of being a commander of a warship and its fighter complement? Play as something else, like an explorer or whatever.

At least, that's what I gather. It's not the same as real "training" missions, but it seems that could help some.

I have to admit, I like training missions. I remember completing training level 10 in the original X-Wing piloting a slow old Y-wing with a minute or two to spare That really forced you learn how to handle your craft while managing your piloting, shooting, shields and power allocation

I think it'd be cool if BCM had training missions, but it'll be cool enough without (which goes without saying ). Besides, if GBS continues to exist in BCM, then I'm sure between its docs and Gallion's making available some "tutorials" in these forums I think that it would be possible for some enterprising soul to cook up a pseudo-tutorial mission . It may not be as interactive as something like Freespace's training missions, but still, I don't see what would stop this. I don't claim to be any kind of expert, though, so I'll let someone else like Gallion field the feasibility of that idea.

[Guest Mikel]

Mikel is about to say something when Derek Smart holds up a sign that has "NDA" on it

j/k

In reality, I remember a training mission someone made for BC3k that taught you how to take down a station. And if GBS was released for BC:M (Take a look at the turnout on this one) I sure a few helpful souls would try to create some semi-helpful training missions. The best way to learn, however, is to RTFM and practice. Print out the manual. Be able to talk about things you can do in your sleep. A oral quiz will be held on Monday, anyone that fails is kicked out of Galcom/Insurgency.

PS Please read the manual and double-check it, and then do a search on the forums for posts on your subject first.

[Charles Lindsey]

Go to Tips and Tricks Forum and expand it to a year. The top thread (that I can see with a 30 day limit) is on Capturing Pixan. Expand it and you will see more. Trading tips, Etc.

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Vice Admiral Chavik

ICV Phoenix, Sygan Starstation (Sygan)

Fleet Leader - Balor Fleet

Official BC3K Tester

[Supreme Cmdr]

Doing a tutorial will be a monumental task due to all the gameplay options and careers. Heck, there are 6 careers to choose from, for crying out load.

Besides, if I DID do a tutorial, what could possibly be in it and explained differently, that I don't already have in the excellent manual? I mean, a tutorial would show you how to select a target. But so would the Tacscan section in the manual.

I have considered doing one, but I shiver each time I think about it. In fact, I did a Quick Start for the Beta and I suspect that the BC fans didn't even read it, since it didn't contain anything new, just a few titbits related to BCM changes, e.g. first person mode.

Dunno what do to really. And since I'm probably the only one qualified to do a tuturial that would ship in the game, there is a very good chance that even if I did commit to doing one, I won't find time to do it. I am handling 98% of development right now, so, I'm stretched to the limit.

[Steve Schacher]

As a suggestion, try using the battlecruiser commands and let your crew handle the details. This will get you moving while you learn the individual controls yourself.

Just put the BC on AI Autopilot and issue commands like FLY TO, JUMP AT, ATTACK, and DEFEND. As the crew gain experience they will perform better, but at the early stages you will definitely want to take control at hot spots, and this will force you to learn.

[Kush]

I have an idea. Instead of training missions, could you create a kind of small 'level' called a Lab. In this 'level' would be a number of objects in the BCM game that would be stationary and you could experiment at will. Is it possible to create a safe place in the game world where I can sit with the manual at my side if I wish, and practice interacting with stuff. There would be no enemies that would attack you. Just one example of a few of the main things you will run into in the BCM universe; ie a star base, a planet, whatever you think are the fundamental things a player will run into alot. (And I'm not suggesting you do it Derek. I'm suggesting you do that thing that you said yourself you're learning to get better at; delegate! There has to be someone other than you who can code a very small, simple section of space with a bunch of stuff all crammed together in it.)

The key of what I'm looking for is a place where you don't have to worry about enemies attacking you. Where you could screw up as much as you want with no consequences.

As I said earlier in my post, personally, I don't mind goofing around with a game to learn it, but my gaming buddies like to ease into things. And I honestly believe that giving new players something to help them learn just the fundamental skills will sell more games. I know I'll be able to sell at least four.

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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The key of what I'm looking for is a place where you don't have to worry about enemies attacking you. Where you could screw up as much as you want with no consequences.

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In BCM, the moon regions in Jupiter are fairly safe haven. In the final version, I will probably make them totally safe. But then again, you won't have any hostiles to practice against. I have some ideas that am working on right now, and if they pan out, I will just create a mission script that is for training/tutorial use only (like the XC module) and make it accessible from the main menu as Training Academy or somesuch. Since it will be scripted, I can have hostiles, friendlies etc, scripted to do exactly what I want. I think this will be the best thing since, like XC, it will have its own small pocket universe.

quote:

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As I said earlier in my post, personally, I don't mind goofing around with a game to learn it, but my gaming buddies like to ease into things. And I honestly believe that giving new players something to help them learn just the fundamental skills will sell more games. I know I'll be able to sell at least four.

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Yes, I agree with you. The only problem that I have is time. I don't have much of it left, unfortunately. I've less than 3 months to finish this game and ship it (it has to be out by the end of March)

We'll see. Stay tuned.

[Gallion]

This post is moot now that SC chimed back in

TTFN

[This message has been edited by Gallion (edited 12-18-2000).]

[Kush]

Awesome!!! March? I can hack it. Do what you can. I don't want to beat this over the head, but I'm not looking for a detailed tutorial that takes me through every feature in the game. Just the basics.

And I honestly wasn't suggesting you do it personally. I know you're strapped for time.

I am soooo PUMPED about this game. 'The moons of Jupiter are a safe haven.' he says. Just like that. This game is going to ROCK!!!!!!!!

[Supreme Cmdr]

Gallion, now you know why I released GBS-II. You're going to be my right-hand testing guinea pig on this one

[Gallion]

quote:

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...guinea pig ...

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I suddenly feel like Beeker on the Muppet Show

No problem SC, ready to assist when/where I can Have been thinking about several types of training missions. They would be time sensitive, etc. before Cerberus barks the gates of hades open

TTFN

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Fleet Commander Gallion

(Pro Tem)

GCV Graf Spee, Starbase Cerberus

Fleet Leader - Wraith Fleet (Pro Tem)

Wing Leader - Wraith Fleet/Corsair Wing

"Run Silent, Run Deep"

Corsair Cove

Official Tester, Battlecruiser Series

Leader, Team 1

[This message has been edited by Gallion (edited 12-18-2000).]