TLM behavior in Bridge v. TacOps view

[Mitchell]

I really like using the TacOps computer, and, as I've posted elsewhere in this forum, I think it provides a really great interface for controlling your many assets in BCM. There seems to be an inconsistancy, however, in the how targets are listed in the TLM pop-ups depending on whether you are accessing them from TacOps versus teh Bridge view. This is kind of difficult to explain in words, but I will do my best:

Say you (and your CC) are in Earth region, and that you send a probe and an SC (say, SC1) to Pluto region. From TacOps, you can view Pluto region by accessing the proper entry in the probe TLM. From this view, you can order SC1 to do various things, such as 'Jump to' Alpha Centauri, etc. This is all well and good. However, if you were to access the TLM for SC2 (which is still back with your CC in Earth region) and try to give it a 'Jump to' order, the list of jump points will be those in the PLUTO region (which you are viewing via the probe) rather than those in Earth reagion (where SC2 is located).

Also, if you send your TacOps view back to Earth region and access the TLM for SC1 (who is in Pluto region) and try to issue a 'Jump to' order, you are presented with a list of teh jump points in Earth region instead of those for Pluto.

If, OTOH, you try the same thing from the Bridge view (that is, access the TLM for SC1), the _correct- list of jump points (i.e., those in Pluto region) are presented.

Please tell me if I need to be more descriptive, but it seems like this is something the SC may wish to look into. It's a small thing, but important to people (like me) who like to use the otherwise excellent TacOps system so much...

[Guest]

When you are in TacOps and are viewing a region through it , the TacOps computer has the info on that region only.

When you're on the bridge you can tell it to go to the nav point in the region your shuttle is in. Why? Well, it doesnt take a wise guy to open a starmap with the nav points and tell it where to go. And your officers are wise guys. Well, most of them anyway.

[Mitchell]

I know, Tac, that that's the way it does work; I was suggesting, however, that in the case of the TacOps TLM, the target options presented should be representative of those targets to which the subject of the menu (i.e., the support craft whose menu was accessed) can be ordered to address. It makes no sense to present a list of Nav or Tactical targets (in the CC's or probes's region) to which the support craft doesn't have access. It works fine from the Bridge view - why not implement the code to provide access to the same target menu shown when a 'Jump to' order is accessed from the Bridge view TLM as is provided when the same asset is accessed from the TLM in TacOps?

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mitchell:

I know, Tac, that that's the way it does work; I was suggesting, however, that in the case of the TacOps TLM, the target options presented should be representative of those targets to which the subject of the menu (i.e., the support craft whose menu was accessed) can be ordered to address. It makes no sense to present a list of Nav or Tactical targets (in the CC's or probes's region) to which the support craft doesn't have access. It works fine from the Bridge view - why not implement the code to provide access to the same target menu shown when a 'Jump to' order is accessed from the Bridge view TLM as is provided when the same asset is accessed from the TLM in TacOps?

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Short and simple:

TACOPS is designed to allow you to issue orders based only upon the region you are currently viewing.

Bridge gives you the ability to interface with your crafts directly.

TACOPS currently gives me the ability to remotely order my craft (any of them) based upon any region I can view. So I can issue attack orders to my fighters regarding a target two regions away if I have a probe there.

Bridge TLM does not give me that ability and if you make both work the same then what exactly is the use of having probes?

[Guest]

ack Tyrn beat me to it.

Before I say anything more, I'd have to ask the SC: If your Carrier is in Earth and you have deployed no probes.. and you launch a fighter or shuttle and order it to jump at, say, Jupiter.

Should I be able to see the region that craft is in in TacOps if I have no probe deployed in the area? I can see it in the game, by going to the ZOOM TO option.. but that smells like a backdoor way to get full TacOps view into a region I have no probes and only a snubfighter or shuttle with hardly a sensor package comparable to a cap ship, yet I get the same info from them. Malice in Wonderland?

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tac:

ack Tyrn beat me to it.

Before I say anything more, I'd have to ask the SC: If your Carrier is in Earth and you have deployed no probes.. and you launch a fighter or shuttle and order it to jump at, say, Jupiter.

Should I be able to see the region that craft is in in TacOps if I have no probe deployed in the area? I can see it in the game, by going to the ZOOM TO option.. but that smells like a backdoor way to get full TacOps view into a region I have no probes and only a snubfighter or shuttle with hardly a sensor package comparable to a cap ship, yet I get the same info from them. Malice in Wonderland?

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That does sound like a hole to be plugged.

[Mitchell]

Tyrn wrote:

quote:

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TACOPS currently gives me the ability to remotely order my craft (any of them) based upon any region I can view. So I can issue attack orders to my fighters regarding a target two regions away if I have a probe there.

Bridge TLM does not give me that ability and if you make both work the same then what exactly is the use of having probes?

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No, and that's exactly my point: you can issue target orders to a support craft in a different region from the Bridge TLM even if you do not have a probe there. For example, I can order my SC towing the Diplomat in ToD1-2/5 to 'Jump at' the wormhole to AC from the bridge TLM while I'm in Earth and he's in Pluto, even though I have no probe in Pluto. You cannot (and I agree that you should not be able to) do so from TacOps. Please don't get me wrong here - I am not complaining, only pointing out that the two work differently, and it just didn't look right to me.

I would also suggest that it would be better if the TacOps TLM displayed no targets (Nav targets or otherwise) for a support craft in some region other than the one you're viewing rather than a list of invalid targets as it does now. Just a thought.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Mitchell ]

Delete extra edited by statements, no one wants to know how many times you edited your post.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Tyrn ]

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mitchell:

No, and that's exactly my point: you

can

issue target orders to a support craft in a different region from the Bridge TLM even if you do not have a probe there. For example, I can order my SC towing the Diplomat in ToD1-2/5 to 'Jump at' the wormhole to AC from the bridge TLM while I'm in Earth and he's in Pluto, even though I have no probe in Pluto. You cannot (and I agree that you should not be able to) do so from TacOps. Please don't get me wrong here - I am not complaining, only pointing out that the two work differently, and it just didn't look right to me.

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You're not getting it. On the bridge, the shuttle is reporting back to you what targets it can currently see. You can then order that shuttle to interact with those targets because the pilot of your shuttle can physically see them!

quote:

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Originally posted by Mitchell:

I would also suggest that it would be better if the TacOps TLM displayed no targets (Nav targets or otherwise) for a support craft in some region other than the one you're viewing rather than a list of invalid targets as it does now. Just a thought.

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INVALID TARGETS? You have to be kidding. Of course the targets are valid. You haven't used the Navitron to plot a course yet have you? I can see a system 5 jumps away because I have a LR probe there. Mother is smart enough to feed my pilots info from the navitron to help them navigate from my current position and interact with any target my probe tells me about.

[ 12-06-2001: Message edited by: Tyrn ]

[Mitchell]

Tyrn, I do understand - I must not be explaining things properly, though; let me try a simpler approach:

Leave probes out of it for a minute. Launch in Earth region and send SC1 to Pluto region. When he gets there, open the 'Jump at' TLM for SC1 from the bridge view. As you point out, the pilot of SC1 sees and can be ordered to 'Jump at' the wormhole to Alpha Centauri or the gates to Jupiter, Neptune, etc. Now switch to TacOps. Accessing the 'Jump at' TLM for SC1 now lists the jump points in Earth region instead of the ones currently 'seen by' and available to the pilot of SC1. If these nav targets are not 'invalid' then they are certainly inappropriate given the context of the menu presented.

As I said earlier, I love TacOps and spend a lot of time there. It's great fun to try running operations in two or more regions at the same time, trying to get probes where you need them, trying to keep your drones, marines and other craft in one piece, etc. TacOps was great back in 1996, and it's only gotten better since. I have confidence this trend will continue.

[Guest]

Mitchell, again, the TacOps only dispays the information on the region you are currently observing. If you dont have a probe, you dont have a way to observe that place, and thus, any orders you issue from tacops will only reflect the information you have at hand..aka, the region you are observing. That is why from the bridge you can order the shuttle to use the nav points to navigate back to you or wherever you want it to go. You should not, however, be able to tell the shuttle to TOW a target in the pluto region, since YOU in the command ship cannot see it. That's why probes are useful.

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Tac:

ack Tyrn beat me to it.

Before I say anything more, I'd have to ask the SC: If your Carrier is in Earth and you have deployed no probes.. and you launch a fighter or shuttle and order it to jump at, say, Jupiter.

Should I be able to see the region that craft is in in TacOps if I have no probe deployed in the area? I can see it in the game, by going to the ZOOM TO option.. but that smells like a backdoor way to get full TacOps view into a region I have no probes and only a snubfighter or shuttle with hardly a sensor package comparable to a cap ship, yet I get the same info from them. Malice in Wonderland?

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It works as designed

[Tyrn]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

It works as designed

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Bless you

[Soback]

LOL, I can't. Too funny.