Joystick Axis

[d8alus]

Is there any way to switch the roll(x) and yaw(z) axes?

[ 11-27-2002, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Joel Schultz]

I don't think so. I remember grunting about it once, and getting told to "siddown" by you-know-who. The joystick axis configuration is my only major gripe about BCM.

Then again, I'm not running the latest RC patch either (I've kinda been waiting for 1.00.08 final) so who knows?

[ 11-14-2002, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: Joel Schultz ]

[rworbey]

{Diffidently} CTRL+J works here.

[CedricB]

That doesn't work if you have a setup with pedals like my X41. The stick always seems to control roll and the pedals yaw... makes combat hard. I have winXP so I can't use their program to adjust the axes yet... damn joo saitek.... But I usually just let the AI do the fighting sometimes.

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by CedricB:

That doesn't work if you have a setup with pedals like my X41.

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If you had taken the time to read up on the CTRL+J command on the keyboard sheet, you would know why that is.

quote:

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makes combat hard.

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Yeah? Please explain

[d8alus]

Argument #1: On most other space combat games, x axis is yaw, z axis is roll (petty argument, I know)

Argument #2: In a real aircraft, when travelling at high speeds, the rudder could become damaged when used and doesn't perform well anyways. In a spacecraft, there is no rudder it's lateral rockets.

Argument #3: A real aircraft's wings generate lift. When flying level, it is possible to generate just enough lift (and thrust) to counteract gravity. When rolled on it's side, the craft no longer generates lift with it's wings. The wings then act like a giant rudder and change the direction of flight. When the pilot then pulls back on the stick, thus raising the elevators, the aircraft performs a much tighter turn. Note, however, that without moving the elevators, the craft will still turn due to aerodynamics.

In space, however, aerodynamics become moot. A spacecraft's turning ability is in no way tied to its shape or wings and lift is generated solely by thrust. The only way for a spacecraft to change it's direction is to generate thrust to push it in the desired direction. Therefore turning a spacecraft on it's side, (relative to it's former position) will not cause any change in direction, requiring you to then change the pitch.

Now, for whatever reason, I find target acquisition much easier using pitch and yaw as the primary axes and roll as an auxillary movement to fine tune the angle. Therefore, assigning the y and x axes as pitch and yaw would make it much easier and natural. I think the reason is the difference in the speeds of aircraft and (fictional) spacecraft.

Maybe it's just me, and call me weird, but I like it better that way. That's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.

:edit: I actually think I did that wrong...wouldn't x be pitch and y be yaw? I'm confused. I've done nothing but play with guns and run around in the woods for the last four years, don't hold it against me!

[ 11-25-2002, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Kiran ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kiran:

Maybe it's just me, and call me weird, but I like it better that way. That's my two cents, take it for what it's worth.

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Yes, thanks for that particularly useless piece of information. There is no concept of realistic (or anything even closely resembling it) flight dynamics in any BC game. As such, everything you wrote above is 100% useless and out of context.

The simplest explanation is that some people just want to toggle their joystick axis but they can't if they have one with a twist axis. You can't have both. But I think I've come up with an unsupported alternative included in the update just sent to testers. Check the VCF for more info.

And next time if you want to be helpful, keep it simple.

[ 11-25-2002, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[d8alus]

sorry about the useless info, I do that alot...

I realize it's a moot point now, but what I was trying to say is that I think in realistic flight sims roll and pitch are better cuz it's realistic. In space sims, yaw and pitch are better cuz it's faster. Does that make more sense?

P.S. I was also BS'ing to make it sound like I had a legit reason...won't do it again

[ 11-25-2002, 04:09 PM: Message edited by: Kiran ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kiran:

P.S. I was also BS'ing to make it sound like I had a legit reason...won't do it again

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LOL!! I figured as much

[Charles Lindsey]

CedricB

I have a Saitek X36F joystick with the X35T throttle. Saitek's site doesn't even show this older model anymore or the X41. If it will work I will share the profile.

Some of the things I have done are

Hat 1 up = afterburner

Hat 1 dn = retro

Hat 1 lt = roll left

Hat 1 rt = roll right.

Works like a dream.

Hat 2 is for the views. Fwd, rear, left, right. I mainly use rear view to "center" the planet so I can fly away from it as directly and quickly as possible.

"A" button = line of sight targeting. Useful for targeting a station you wish to dock with or anything really. "B" button is closest attacker. That launch flip switch cycles missles and I think pinkie shifted it launches them. The missile launch button on the rear of the joystick does that too but really I slap the space bar myself. Hmmm, maybe I should pinkie shift the trigger to launch missiles.

I have programmed a lot of stuff into the throttle as well.

Joystick programming almost ought to be a thread. I've never seen one on it.

[CedricB]

Oops....... I mean the X45... my bad....

and I kinda... erm... lost my keyboard ref sheet... *cough* and the manual..... *double cough* Could someone kindly tell me where I can aquire a new one... I still have the CD Sleeve with the key on it to prove I bought it....

Now if Saitek got off their lazy bums and wrote good WinXP programing software, I'd have no probs. I could just reassign the axes or turn off the rudder to allow it to work.

The X36/45 have around 20 or so buttons including an X,Y,Z, Rudder, and 2 rotary switches. The rudder is on the back side of the throttle. You use your left fingers to operate it. This is my Yaw control, and it is very sensitive. It only has about 1/2" give to either side, so small movements give big results.

When I am dogfighting, it is very difficult to quickly realign my nose with a target about 1-3 degrees to either side. The roll takes too long and if I use the rudder control for yaw it goes too far. THAT is what makes flying hard for me. Is it just me or does it seem the fighters should have faster turning rates? According to the appendix, the numbers average out about twices as fast. Isn't that a small performance increase over a big cruiser?

All I wanna do is change the axes... *sniff*

[ 11-27-2002, 05:35 AM: Message edited by: CedricB ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by CedricB:

and I kinda... erm... lost my keyboard ref sheet... *cough* and the manual..... *double cough*

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How convenient. Are you one of those who bought the game, installed it, cracked it, then returned it?

Anyway, you can pick up a copy of BCM from EB for $9.99 now. Buy a new copy if you want the manual and keyboard.

You probably don't know this, but anyone quoting anything from the manual without my permission, gets an instant permanent banning.

[ 11-27-2002, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Supreme Cmdr ]

[Charles Lindsey]

The X45 looks exactly like an X36. Just some shiny metal in various spots, probably digital, and USB instead of that old D plug.

Yes fighters have much faster turning rates now. They are lighter and more nimble after all. Derek was always getting slammed for "sameness" in turning rates in reviews so he changed it. Cap ships are wallowing pigs now.

I also have the rudder on the throttle but for some reason the ship would only twitch. The buttons wouldn't work properly. That's why I created my own workaround and assigned it to the Hat. I now have all directional controls in one hand. Works great for me. True, there is no gradient but that's no worse than using the keyboard. For you, flying a much faster fighter, I can see the difference.

For the throttle I have it set up as the 10 fixed position thing. The variable didn't work too well but this is ok because BCM has exactly 10 throttle positions. I also have it reversed so that full throttle is pulled all the way back. That takes a bit of getting used to but is far more comfortable. Doesn't have your arm stretched out all the time.

M1, M2, M3 are NID, tacscan, and CVD respectively. The "fire" button on the throttle cycles through the phases of each. I usually leave this on M1 and just hit the fire button once at the start of each game to flip CVD into active mode. After that I have the left and right positions on the throttle Hat button assigned the period and comma keys so the throttle Hat button can now be used to cycle through targets in the CVD. The little "mouse" button I have assigned as "V" so I can use that to view the cargo of anything targeted. Useful on cargo pods. I think up and down on the throttle hat is main gun strength and pinkie shifted is PTA strength but I rarely use that.

The two rotary knobs I can't think of a use for.

That's about it. Mostly combat related stuff I have pushed to the joystick throttle combo and it works quite well for me.

[CedricB]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

How convenient. Are you one of those who bought the game, installed it, cracked it, then returned it?

Anyway, you can pick up a copy of BCM from EB for $9.99 now. Buy a new copy if you want the manual and keyboard.

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Oh yeah... like your infinitely powerful hacking skills couldn't pick that up... I've been around a while ya know. I remember the discussion on how you detect that kind of stuff.

Hmmm... maybe I'll get my friend to buy it so I can steal his manual... he's got MY SELF PRINTED manuals for Flanker 2.5 and Sub Command (200+ pages each)

THANK YOU SC FOR GIVING US A PRINTED MANUAL!!!! PDFs suck....

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by CedricB:

Oh yeah... like your infinitely powerful hacking skills couldn't pick that up... I've been around a while ya know. I remember the discussion on how you detect that kind of stuff.

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hehe, I was just ribbing ya

[Supreme Cmdr]

oh, 'ang on a minute, how come none of you whining bastards has said anything about the joystick axis switch in put in RC28?

[Epsilon 5]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

oh, 'ang on a minute, how come none of you whining bastards has said anything about the joystick axis switch in put in RC28?

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I don'T even know what you're talking about

[d8alus]

quote:

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oh, 'ang on a minute, how come none of you whining bastards has said anything about the joystick axis switch in put in RC28?

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A. Cuz it's listed in RC27

B. I'm pretty sure you're tired of my whinin'!

C. All of the above

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kiran:

A. Cuz it's listed in RC27

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uhm, not sure what you mean, but the RC28 patch includes the RC27 items

[d8alus]

I somehow managed to miss the fact that rc28 made it to the download page. So, I thought you were talking about the vcf. My mistake.

BTW 'axes' is the plural of 'axis'

[ 11-28-2002, 07:01 PM: Message edited by: Kiran ]

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kiran:

I somehow managed to miss the fact that rc28 made it to the download page. So, I thought you were talking about the vcf.

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yeah, you would

quote:

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BTW 'axes' is the plural of 'axis'

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Hence the reason I changed the subject to the correct form, seeing that only one axis was in question. But nice try though.