BCMG.....how good is ...

[lynxz]

hello all...happy crimbo I`ve landed on this forum via a bit of a strange route, I`d just got x2 the threat...hang on !!... and had to do a format of system and before I started playing the game again I remembered this game (i.e. BCMG) and wanting to check it out, so I did a search and found this forum, then d`loaded the demo BCM, and really liked the depth of gameplay that seems to be in the game, I`ve read quite a few posts and noticed you guys don`t take any prisoners when answering badly worded/stupid posts , so hopefully I`ll get this sounding right....at the moment I`ve found one copy of BCMG for sale, probably gonna order in anycase but wondered if you can pass a few comments on the gameplay, and how good the immersion factor is, I can tell by the demo that the learning curve is steep, and hope that it will be worth taking the leap....judging by what I`ve read it seems that it will be, I`m certainly no noob to games, but happily admit that this game looks like it puts the noobie cap firmly back on your head for a while at least ..lmao....so basically I suppose all I`m asking is.....how good is BCMG??

[Supreme Cmdr]

I am biased, so take this for what its worth.

For immersion, freeform, world size, combat, AI and pretty much everything else (except for graphics, trading and empire building), X2 pales compared to BCM Gold. The two games are as different as dawn and noon, in that they both take place in space, but thats where the similarity ends.

BCM Gold does not have the high end graphics as X2 (neither does UC, since we don't do bump mapping on objects, only on water, no shadows etc), which is why it runs faster and smoother.

[lynxz]

never have guessed you might have biased view. to be honest eye candy takes second place to gameplay as far as i`m concerned,which is what I meant when i said I`ve been playing the BCMG demo instead of X2 i.e. the learning curve of BCMG made me think that theres got to be a good game at the end of this if it takes time and effort to learn how to play it....wasn`t really after a comparison with X2 to be honest, as you say chalk and cheese, just after comments from people who`ve been playing BCMG game for a while, also wondered if maybe I should wait and get UC if it is due out soon in europe? do you have a release date yet?

[Supreme Cmdr]

BCMG and UC are completely different games in various aspects.

There is currently no release date for UC in Europe. Thats up to the publisher.

[jnewl]

If you have the money, get BCMG now and UC later. BCMG is the last "pure" BC game and it's quite good. UC has had its focus adjusted a bit, which doesn't mean it's going to be a bad game, but only that it's had its focus adjusted a bit. (Unfortunately, I can't comment much on UC since I haven't catalogued the changes in depth like some people have; for me, it's a must-buy no matter what gets done to it--short of some major catastrophe.)

Anyway, if the proprieter of this fine establishment is a bit biased, he's nevertheless right for all that. BCMG is a superior game to X2, except in the areas of trade and empire-building (which BCMG was never really designed for). Particularly if immersion is important to you (as it is to me) you'll want to go with BCMG. I currently have four discs sitting on top of my computer: BCMG, Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, X2: The Threat, and Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. All of the latter three have received extremely high marks from both gamers and critics, and all are indeed fine games. The fact is, however, that the game I want to fire up every time I sit down is: BCMG.

As for BCMG's graphics: I actually prefer its look to that of the fancier games. There comes a point where so many atmospheric effects and gee-whiz graphical tricks simply become too much, and games like X2 have reached that point, imo. They leave no room for the imagination to breathe. BCMG strikes a good balance in that regard, I think (although round planets would be nice ).

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by mudpuppy:

As for BCMG's graphics: I actually prefer its look to that of the fancier games. There comes a point where so many atmospheric effects and gee-whiz graphical tricks simply become too much, and games like X2 have reached that point, imo. They leave no room for the imagination to breathe. BCMG strikes a good balance in that regard, I think (although round planets would be nice ).

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Funny you should mention that, because thats what I was thinking a few months back when I was wrapping up the specialfx for UC. For e.g. I moved things like bump mapping (though this is used on water via pixel shaders within the PTE-III terrain engine), shadows, volumetric fog (though used on the PTE-III terrain engine), hyperjump, cloaking fx to the bottom of my TODO list because it was more important to focus on the gameplay, AI and a bunch of other things which were part of the gameplay, not the glitz. Sure, the graphics, object models are vastly superior to those in previous BC games - including *any* 3D model you see in X2, but you can run the game at very high resolutions with very few things (particle contrails being the most expensive) turned off.

As we've seen with X2, most people (I know I can't) won't dare run it higher than 800x600 with all fx enabled on anything short of a P4 3.Ghz 512MB rig with a third-gen graphics card (e.g. GeForce FX or ATI 9600 or higher). You have to turn it all off. And what do you have left? Not even the gameplay because underneath, the storyline sucks, the AI is quite bad. What you have left is X+XT in a new shell. Which is not a bad thing because X was always about trading and empire building; just as the BC games were all about combat, with trading thrown in for good measure.

Thats not saying that X2 is a bad game, its not. Its just a lot closer to Elite (if you ignore the piss poor combat AI, control scheme etc etc) than anything before it.

With UC, it had to be playable, the gameplay had to be maintained and with the focus shift, had to be accessible. For the true BC gamers, the roam scenario is the closest thing to the original BC mythos because the single ACM scenario and the 15 IA scenarios are pure action based run 'n gun affairs. Gone (in the ACM scenario) are the in-depth thought/research provoking quests I had designed in the past. Oh well.

[Banquet]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

I am biased, so take this for what its worth.

For immersion, freeform, world size, combat, AI and pretty much everything else (except for graphics, trading and empire building), X2 pales compared to BCM Gold. The two games are as different as dawn and noon, in that they both take place in space, but thats where the similarity ends.

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He may be biased but that's pretty accurate imo

If I could only keep one, it'd be BCMG, no doubt about it. I can't help wishing Derek would include some aspects of X2's trading and empire building in a future BC game but I gather that's unlikely for a host of reasons.. not least that it's designed as a more combat oriented game.

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by Banquet:

not least that it's designed as a more combat oriented game.

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Correct. Trading was just something I threw in because it was always the staple of space sims (except for the WC series of course).

Space sims are dead. Pure and simple. If I ever do another one, it won't be for another 4-8 years at the most. Even the sequel (or add-on) to UC, will probably see no new addition to the space sim aspects - except probably the ability to construct bases on planets and in space.

[Banquet]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Even the sequel (or add-on) to UC, will probably see no new addition to the space sim aspects - except probably the ability to construct bases on planets and in space.

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Constructing bases would be pretty damn cool

[Guest rtoolooze]

I don't even play X2- The Threat anymore cause I got bored with it. Every time I think about it it was just a waste of money for me. Not saying others are not enjoying it, its just not my cup of tea.

I really don't feel like its real space. Every sector is WAY too busy with objects, gases, stations, factorys, and so on. The volumetric gases are cool, but who wants to fly thru them half the time? If there was that much visible gas up there, from down here on earth at night, you'd never be able to see the stars.

Space is supposed to be just that, space, right? Also, space regions are way too small. Thats why you have no hyperjumps. Anyway, like S.C. said, its not a bad game, I just don't care for it.

Anyone want a slightly used X2- the Threat game?

Sorry for going off topic. Ummm, yes, BCMG is VERY good and the only space game I play.

[jnewl]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

Trading was just something I threw in because it was always the staple of space sims (except for the WC series of course).

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I liked what you said before: that you put in trading so we'd be able to buy gas (cue image of Starcarrier sitting dead in space with commander outside kicking the hull...)

quote:

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Space sims are dead. Pure and simple. If I ever do another one, it won't be for another 4-8 years at the most. Even the sequel (or add-on) to UC, will probably see no new addition to the space sim aspects - except probably the ability to construct bases on planets and in space.

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The trick, in my opinion, is to incorporate a new and interesting gameplay model into a space sim. That will bring the customers running back. For instance, what I think would be cool would be to make a completely diplomacy-driven game, as opposed to, say, the trading-driven game that seems to be everyone's been-there-done-that model of choice. (And when I say a diplomacy-driven game, I'm talking about a deep and convincing diplomacy/relationships model; not the superficial pap that usually passes for diplomacy in games.)

Anyway, I hope you're not saying that BCO is dead? Did I miss that announcement?

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Originally posted by mudpuppy:

I liked what you said before: that you put in trading so we'd be able to buy gas (cue image of Starcarrier sitting dead in space with commander outside kicking the hull...)

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heh yeah, but that was not the reason I put trading in. If gas was an issue, I'd just have the stations give out free gas, supplies etc, the same way you get free repairs. My minimalist approach to trading in BC games, is just that, minimalist. It has a somewhat strategic aspect to it (ever find out what happens when you're clean, across the galaxy with barely enough gas for a jump? or a badly damaged shield with no spare parts?)

Yeah, base construction was one of the items in my original BCG design. But alas, with the advent of UC, that and several others, got tossed.

Even with that sacrifice, the publisher still saw it fit to release the game (RC2) with known bugs.

quote:

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Anyway, I hope you're not saying that BCO is dead? Did I miss that announcement?

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Not by a bloody long shot, mate. Right now, I have three projects in the works.

1. BCO, the MMOG version of a true BC title, but with the hardcore elements of BCG and the lighter, action side of UC. Lets put it this way, if Eve's (and incidentally Jumpgate) days weren't already numbered. Just wait. As for SWG, by the time they figure out that Star Wars = space flight, we'd have come and long gone since I had the technology to do seamless space/planet worlds long before SWG was even an idea.
   
2. UC : Edge To Edge (working title) which goes into dev in Feb '04
   
3. KnightBlade (the XBox title we started about six months ago using the RenderWare graphics engine and which is still in the content creation stage).
   

[Banquet]

quote:

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Originally posted by Supreme Cmdr:

[QB] As for SWG, by the time they figure out that Star Wars = space flight, we'd have come and long gone

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I can't help wondering if the recent Star Wars films didn't also suffer because this simple fact was missed.

Tonight I played BCMG again. I haven't played it for a while due to recent releases such as X2, Victoria, KOTOR and LOMAC.

I did what I usually do - flew me to the moon (cue song) and deployed all shuttles to drop off mining drones.. this time.. somehow (can't watch 4 shuttles at once!) one of the shuttles got damaged and was left lifless in space. I sent another shuttle out to tow it back and watched as it did it. Absolutley beautiful and it's never happened to me before. The fact that a shuttle can be damaged like that - and that u can tow it back and repair it - is so cool.

X2 can't compete.. frankly, nothing can. What's almost funny is that a game designed to be a combat oriented game is better at these moments.. better at conveying the spirit of exploration, the freedom of thought, the grandness of plans and the devastation of their downfall than all the games that might claim to be deeper.

If space sims are dead, BCM is a dead man walking.

[Guest rtoolooze]

Well said banquet, well said. And so true.

[Whispers]

I have been playing X2 for a while and I am relatively new to space sims, I come from more of MMOG gaming (was into JG, beta-tested EVE for a while until I (unfortunately) got invited to test SWG and lost 6 months of time) But now I am looking for a new MMOG to get hooked on and ended up at BCO site... I was impressed to say the least and ordered BCM gold (it arrived 2 days ago and the manual is all ready falling apart on me and not from poor bookbinding)..I also cant seem to keep any other cd in my cpu, even tho I dont know what Im doing yet in BCM.

Just wanted to say that I hope that your online project goes off well...I am really really jonesing for a good online game to drop a few years into.

I'm sure that BCO will fit the bill.

Whispers

ps sorry i just registered and am having serial# problems (dreamcatcher tech -support gave me a new one and it gets rejected) so my sig isnt up yet.

[Guest rtoolooze]

Welcome!

You also know about Universal Combat tho right? Was a good choice getting BCMG however.

Carry on Cadet.

[Whispers]

I have UC pre-ordered (eb says shipping next week)...but wanted to get a jump on the learning curve for UC, so I got BCM Gold this past sat.

Right now I just want to get the registration key problem fixed so I can go MP and check out servers etc.

impatient

[Cc]

quote:

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Right now I just want to get the registration key problem fixed so I can go MP and check out servers etc.

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Well I can't help you on any registration problems but you do not to need register to play MP.However you do need to upgrade the game to the latest version.Go go the download section of this forum and donwload two files (actually file links).You need V1.01.00 9.87 MB dated 6-02-03 size 10,350,717 bytes.And you need V1.01.01 8.25 MB dated 12-12-03 size 8,654,733 bytes.

OK.Now be carefull!From wherever you downloaded these files to, move(or copy) these files to your BCMG directory.Repeat do not attempt to do the patches from anywhere other then the folder where BCMG is installed.If you do not do this some files will not be upgraded properly.

OK. After upgrading the game should run.Test it in singleplayer mode first.I personally suggest you play in single player for a while to get a feel for the game.It is not necessarily easy (or hard) to learn depending on what you what to do.There are a lot keyboard commands to learn to take full advantage of the game.

At any rate to play MP select the "join mp server" menu item to start MP. If any servers are up available they will be apparent.DreadX has a server up at 16:00 EST and I have my server up usually during the day until his comes on line.

And for god's sake save youself much abuse by reading the manual,the manual addendum,the VCF,and the FAQ.

Good luck.

[Whispers]

Ya, reading and more reading...I have been doing for past 2 days...

I got the patches etc, and game is updated properly...

I found out that I could go on to MP server w/o reg key fixed, last night got on Dreadx server just to test if I could join MP...

But do not feel at all adept enough to join regular players...

Hopefully I'll get some sp gaming practice

in b4 UC releases

I am a MMOG player but do realize that one needs to invest quite some effort into learning b4 going public with BCM G MP game.

Looks to be an awesome game universe once you graduate from the "cc flight school" and know what's up.

Hope to catch you on my radar screen asap.

Thanks for the feedback.