BC Forum

[thanatos]

I've spent most of the afternoon scanning the various topics and threads in the BC3K forum. I purchased the original game at the time of its initial release date, and was considering obtaining version 2.0x to re-enter the BC community and give a game which showed so much promise and potential a second look.

My impression of this forum is one of an tangible feeling of condescension and some gloominess. The "Newbie" section even has curt and uncharitable responses from the repliers, including the Supreme Commander. A power cascade or pecking order seems to be in force, as well. A game such as this, with its grand and intricate scale and depth needs veterans to assist, not belittle, the rookie (even when he does ask how you orbit a planet for the 500th time). I saw multiple references to being banned from the site. A good idea when unacceptable social behavior warrants, however, multiple topics repetively refer to this punishment as a ever-present dark cloud hanging overhead. There seems to be a core of helpful and polite/spirited commander/members, facilitated by a darker group of repliers who seem to become irritated at minimal provocation.

My quandry is should I purchase this game and enter into the BC community, or is my perception of an underlying hostility to "newbies" and a fascist presence real? Should this post meet with only rudeness and divisive comments, my question will be answered. Please tell me my perceptions are mistaken, and the dark current I feel is one of my own making. Tell me the derogatory comments from the Supreme Commander are partially made in light jest, and not in total contempt for the submitting authors.

Since this post may cause me to be "wished into the field", I'll wish you all contined success and happiness in your real-life endeavors. I am a successful medical doctor with a good career, happy homelife, more than adequate finances, and a good wife. I'm well poised to withstand a flood of derision, or a wave of good fraternity.

Thanks,

Rick L. Hoover, M.D.

[Eclipse]

Generally the Read the Manual posts come because....well... If you had read it throughly the question would have most likely been answered. Even then if your question still hadn't been answered the search function on the forum would most likely bring a slew of topics on what you are looking for. It's not that we are unfriendly or hate newbies, just that the 500th time someone posts a question that has been posted before we get a little tired of continually typing out the answers. If you look at the posts we do answer the questions if the person continues to have difficulty or al least point him to where he can find the answeres. Also, there is fair enough warning that you will be banned or restricted before it actually occurs.

If you wish to purchase BC3K version 2.x that is your perogative, however BC: Millinium will be comming out shortly. If you do purchase it a good idea is to read the updated manual several times, search the forum for a topic similar to yours, Read the version control file and FAQ before posting here.

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Cmdr. Antilles

Spectre Fleet

Spectre Starstation

ICV- Eclipse

Chief Security Officer

Learning is not compulsory... Neither is survival.

[SpacePhish]

"Don't underestimate the power of the dark side! *EVIL INSANE LAUGH* Wha-hahahahahahahahah"

Okay, sorry, all jokes aside now. We don't hate newbies at all . We love ya! Like Eclipse mentioned above most problems can be solved by reading the manual and searching the fourm. But if you still have problems please post them on the fourm, I'm sure some friendly commander will answer it.

We here at the fourm welcome all new peeps A.K.A newbies to the fourm. They provide ammunition for our on-going fleet wars .

And don't worry about Mr.Smart aka S.C, give the man a break, you try programming 24/7/365, heck be glad he's even on the fourm answering questions (I'm sure you know how he feels since you're a doctor). That's all I have to say for now. May the dark force be with you, I'm out...

P.S if I offended you in anyway, please accept my apologies

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cmdr S.Phish

ICV FlipSide

Chief Security Officer Pre-Com New America

"I need a ride or die chick"

[Rattler]

Doc thantos,

I fear that you have the wrong impression of this Bulletin Board. You'll not find a tighter group of gamers anywhere. We do have and maintain a sense of discipline here on this site. Why? Because the Developer, Derek Smart demands it of us. He made the game with military background as it's premise. He simply wants good order and discipline on his site, not wanting flame wars and degradation on a grand scale. I can't fault him for that. As one of the "Old Commanders", like yourself who bought the game the first week it hit the shelves, I've seen it all up here. I've seen many prosper and gain recognition and acclamation here. I've seen others banished because of unacceptable behavior. I've personally been the "watch dog", so to speak, protecting those that made mistakes. I'll not sit idly by and see bad things happen to someone who makes honest mistakes, at least not without jeopradizing myself on their behalf. I've also caused the dismissal of those who knowingly violated the rules of this site. I may be cruel, but I'm damned fair! I think, if you give it a chance, you've found a home here. Look at it from this prospective if you will. How many times did you instruct that medical student you were teaching to run a certain test. I know it's not the same life-and-death scenario, but how many times did you go through a certain proceedure with them before you told them to research the proceedure and give you a detailed report? It's the same thing here, only not on such a grand scale. Could never be. Your job demands perfection. Ours here demands that we enjoy it. I hope you enjoy it as well. Welcome Aboard Doc!

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Rattler, Insurgent One

Spectre Fleet

Spectre StarStation

ICV Necromancer

Official BC3K Tester

[email protected]

ICQ 12894104

"Long Live The Insurgency, Long Live Mother Earth, And Long Live Battlecruiser Developers and Fans!"

[This message has been edited by Rattler (edited 03-11-2000).]

[Guest aramike01]

The truth is, I don't recall ever reading about a newbie being banned permanantly for failure to follow the regs here. Heck, I can't remember a temporary ban. I may be mistaken, though.

Anyway, you should think of this forum as a continuation of the game itself. A "make your own fate" type of thing.

I'm brought back to the time in which I joined this community. I was guilty of posting questions such as: "How the hell do I orbit?" and "Why isn't time accelerating?"

Those questions were never answered. The result: I figured it all out by myself using the tools provided. Made me a better gamer. Now, instead of asking questions I try to answer them.

All that aside, welcome aboard!

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Cmdr. Michael Kristophers

Spectre Fleet

Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation

ICV-Intrepid

Recruitment Officer

"You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"

[Supreme Cmdr]

Nah, we don't hate newbies. Why would we? They make perfect targets.

No seriously, the guys have done a fine job of explaining the premise here. We just like to run a tight ship. In fact, the newbies have a forum all of their own and regs are forbidden from alienating them. The problem, as they mention, is that most newbies just want to create, thread after thread after thread, posing the same questions over and over. Eventually, the forum gets full of the same issues. The site has an excellent search function that can be used to scan for all sorts of topics. In fact, for that reason, I don't even prune the site. You can search as far back as '97 and find a topic. Yes, my ISP is livid because of the disk space usage for that aspect alone.

I mean, I've seen newbies post questions that are documented in the manual and then get pissed when, two days later, there are no replies!

There you have it.

[Guest Photochicken]

I have the agree and disagree with some of the doctor's points. There does seem to be a fair amount of talk about banning or inapropriate behaviour. This is simply the administrators clamping down on what may be a potential trouble making 'firestarter' (if you know what I mean). All in all though I think this forum community is very friendly and helpful. I think its the game-it promotes more intelligent mature people to play it. Go to the forum of a first person shooter game and I think you'll find that every other word is a curse.

However there is one thing I disagree with most of you on and that is the posting of newbie questions.

Eclipse-your comments on how it becomes tiring reading the same newbie questions over and over is irrelevent. It should be common knowledge that you are obviously going to get new newbies who have not asked these questions before. Do you think help desks have the right to say "look, ask someone else because I've answered this question a thousand times today already"?

The reason you give is that most of these questions can be answered in the manual. Come on guys, how many people actually read the manual when they first get a game. I've had it for a short while now and I must have read about 5 pages from it tops. It is so much easier for most people to simply hop on the internet and ask the question on a public forum. I do it all the time. I don't have a problem with the attitude of the replies I get, just as long as at least one of them contains useful information.

[Guest aramike01]

quote:

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Eclipse-your comments on how it becomes tiring reading the same newbie questions over and over is irrelevent.

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Time to back my XO up...

Ummm, this is completely relevant to the topic, Photochicken. Eclipse was simply explaining the reason that there is contempt in regards to answering the same questions over and over again. Totally relevant to this thread.

The thing everyone should keep in mind is that no one here is paid to operate this forum and to answer questions. We do it of our own free will and kindness. In fact, the SC (Derek Smart) pays to operate this site for the fans of his game. There is no obligation to even answer any questions.

I've seen other similar forums and the newbies within. Questions more often than not simply go unanswered. At least here, everyone is pointed in the right direction.

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Cmdr. Michael Kristophers

Spectre Fleet

Commanding Officer, Spectre StarStation

ICV-Intrepid

Recruitment Officer

"You won't get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole!"

PS- Here's an idea. Let's round up all of the regulars and send out a schedule for answering questions in the Newbie Forum. That way, we won't get tired of the same old questions.

PPS- I was kidding above.

[This message has been edited by aramike01 (edited 03-12-2000).]

[Supreme Cmdr]

quote:

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Come on guys, how many people actually read the manual when they first get a game. I've had it for a short while now and I must have read about 5 pages from it tops. It is so much easier for most people to simply hop on the internet and ask the question on a public forum.

---

Well therein lies the rub. BC3K is not that kind of game and this is what were trying to discourage. In order to play this game, you must read the manual. Every article, every review, every gamer, BC3K fan or not, knows this about BC3K. And it is for that very reason that we discourage people from, rather than reading the manual, just jumping in and creating thread after thread, so that someone can regurgitate the manual for them. What is the point in that.

We have a niche title and as such, a niche fan base. I don't think anyone here is anxious to attract a crowd that does not, for lack of a better word, belong. Sure I could do with the money, by my peace of mind comes first. I'd rather have 10 gamers learning the game and hanging around long enough to buy the next one, than have 15 who, maybe, will stick around. Thats the way I've always been and thats why, funny enough, BC3K is still around today. I've remained focused on this niche group and they are the ones who, in essense, propped this franchise that Derek built. Every beta tester I have today, came from this community and many more will come from it, as result of the game attracting a core, studious group of people.

Then again, I have to apologize for the likes of Mech et al. Every now and then we get a total loon - so we just ban 'em. We have all manner of personalities here, ranging from the serious ones like SpcFX, Thomas Siemens et al, to the whacked out crew headed by Parias, SpacePhish and co. It is an ecclectic crew and even though I too can be an absolute jerk to them, skirmishes don't last very long because at the end of the day, we all share a common premise when we meet here.

Bear in mind that these are the same people who do play other games too, btw.

So, no, we never have and never will encourage lazy gamers to pollute the board with issues that are clearly in the manual. The amount of time I spent doing that manual, was so that gamers would find everything in there. In fact, these past few days, I've seen posts from newbies about issues ranging from jump anomaly use to fuel usage. I mean, think about that for a minute. And of course, it is at the discretion of the vets in determining whether they should respond in detail or just point the person to the manual (the normal course of action). Remember too that every vet here, started out as a newbie and mostly back in the days when wasn't even a manual to speak of. So, why should anyone else get a free ticket?

Anyway, we've had this debate before and it gets funnier everytime it starts up, because nothings going to change any time soon. The chaos over at the other gaming boards, is indicative of the lack of order. It will never happen here. And the good thing is that whether I am around or not, I can always count on everyone here, admin, moderator or otherwise, to uphold our standards. Why? Because it works - for us.

[This message has been edited by Supreme Cmdr (edited 03-12-2000).]

[Guest]

Doc,

I've been an active member of this community for almost two years now, and I have to say that this is the best support/forum for any game I've seen in my 10+ years of computing. I have to echo what some of the others have said: Ask a support question that's answered in the game's manual and/or has been answered on this forum a million times, and you're going to get a "RTFM" as a reply. As Derek said, nobody here get's paid to answer questions. So why do it over and over if you can just say "Read page 32 in the manual"? I agree that some games are playable without reading the manual first. BC3K isn't one of them. Say someone goes through life cutting out of every single math class. Does that give that person the right to ask somebody "What's two plus two?" whenever he needs the answer? No, it's his fault he didn't learn math. The same applies here: It's his fault if he did't read the manual, which is there for a reason, and got an "RTFM" when he asked a question that could be answered by reading it.

I don't mean to sound rude, sorry if I did. Just the way it came out.

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Commander Alun Tringad

GCV Black Falcon ISS03

Vice Fleet Leader - ISS Fleet

- Award for Gallantry

Staff Member at RPGClassics.com

[Steve Schacher]

quote:

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"wished into the field"

---

Is this a subtle "Twilight Zone" reference?

[Ben Somerset]

Doctor, I too have been a member of this community for some time, and am deeply appreciative of the great environment provided here. For a direct representation of our camraderie, spirit and respect, I would refer you here. In all my gaming experience, I have never before seen the like, and it makes me proud to be part of such a great place.

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Cmdr. Benjamin Somerset

GCV Swiftsure

*1st Squadron, *SIN Wing

Stationed, *Starstation Wrath

"I wish to have no connection with any ship that does not sail fast, for I intend to go into harm's way."

- John Paul Jones

ICQ 32545391, CST

=TDY Wraith Fleet=

Prime Fleet Liason Officer

[Bandus]

might as well throw my 2 cents into the mix.

I haven't been around here all that long yet. Maybe 1/2 year..but in this short time I went from not liking the folks much on these boards to feeling like I was part of a family. Basically what I'm trying to say is at first glance we may seem like a rough crowd but once you get to know the community, and the people in it...you'll probably understand a bit more why we are the way we are.

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Commander Bandus

GCV Defiant

*1st Squadron,*HammerHead Wing

Stationed, *Starbase Masada

"Universal Peace Through Deadly Force"

ICQ 48630242 EST

=Wraith Fleet=

[Guest]

Well make that 4 cents because here's my contribution. My take is when you have a game that has a 150+ page manual you don't want alot of newbie questions appearing because there's just too many that can be asked. There's only soo many questions a person could ask about how to play Half-Life or Homeworld so those questions appear on their forums enough times to not require the level of monitoring this sight needs (and they still prob. appear 100 times too many). The "How do I...??" posts could REALLY get out of hand if the sight wasn't run the way it is. Besides it's the trend of the industry now to make games that are so accessible (or mindless) that they don't require reading the manual. I remember a time when that was different.

As for "the mood" of this forum I can assure you that there's no pecking order, maybe at most there's different levels of "trust" but that's to be expected. I've seen the oldest of moderators here get slammed for the same reasons anyone else would be. I've lurked here since the sight opened and although it's a tight ship I've never seen unfair treatment to any particular individual.

You should join in, I've found this to be a (for the most part ) higher IQ'ed group then say... the Kingpin forum (No offense. Haven't been there but I've heard storys). Just think of this group as a very hard core RPG'ers group. Certain subjects are taken very seriously (and with reason), especialy when they pertain to the game's universe. But the common goal here is to have fun.

If you want to see a brutal "administrator" follow the Open BSD usenet group and look for the posts from the guy who wrote Open BSD. Trust me.

[thanatos]

Thanks for the positive replies, and for restoring my faith in people. I basically set myself up to be flamed, and you've shown your true nature by responding with sincerity and kind words of welcome.

I'll once again be purchasing the game knowing there is a good community back-up for some of the complexities of the gameplay as well as a forum to interact with other players whom seem to have developed a good rapport with each other. I plan on reading the entire manual after I print it out, then reading it again, and then re-reading and doing a on-line FAQ search before I post a typical newbie question (I actually like to read). Now, how do you maneuver your ship to orbit a planet? (just kidding!)

"Wished into the field" - originally stated by Billy Mumy on The Twilight Zone. All proper respondents may move into the final round of Jeopardy.

Again, thanks for the kind words of welcome and support.

Doc Hoover aka thanatos

[Ben Zwycky]

Welcome Doc!

You won't regret that decision, I can tell you. I didn't

Once you start to get your bearings with the game, you might want to take a look at the rpg forum. There's an awful lot of good stuff to read in there, if you haven't found that out already

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Commander Ben Zwycky

GCV Svoboda ISS07

Defence Wing -ISS Fleet

Adjutant to the Fleet Commander

http://www.watson-jones.swinternet.co.uk/Svoboda

"Nakonec pravda vitezi" (in the end the truth wins)

[Cruis.In]

this is just a message board on the internet, don't take things personally. people just come off sounding harsh because you can't hear their voice. If you did, you would see it's different.

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Commander Cruis.In

Spectre Fleet

CEO, Sygan Star Station

ICV Defiance

"Dare to be defiant"

[ShoHashi]

Welcome aboard, Doc. You can't go wrong with this community of BC enthusiasts.

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Cmdr ShoHashi

Spectre Fleet

Chief Security Officer, Pre-Commissioning Crew, StarStation New Frontier

ICV Aries

ICQ 484321

"Attack With Effectiveness"

[Cruis.In]

is this thanatos from vampires lair?

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Commander Cruis.In

Spectre Fleet

CEO, Sygan Star Station

ICV Defiance

"Dare to be defiant"

[Quazar]

*bump*

I like this subject. Once it is clear in newbies' minds what the goals of this community are, Derek will get less hate mail and negative PMs. An example of the bad stuff can be found in: Community Discussions ┬╗ Private Messages though this pertains more to patching and bug reporting than manual usage.

I've read these forums, played this series and had two other profiles since Q4, '98. (Search for 'Stroiker' and 'Kirk Stryker' for more on that.)

There's an excellent manual/appendix that is a must-read for any serious player. And most eventually take advantage of it.

We could spend hours in Newbie Discussions, BC Legacy Discussions and other forums talking with one guy. At the end of the day, he still has more questions! But the challenge to veterans of the game is to answer these questions and show newbies that this title is well supported by a strong, loyal fan base. Then the lazy ones will either change their ways or not last that long. The smart ones then (usually) decide that its worth their time to do research on their own.

With interest comes motivation to learn; and frankly it takes more effort to ask every conceivable question in the forums than it does to simply read a 200 page manual.

I've seen other forums; they're not even worth linking to this post. This place is different. You guys make it fun. Hats off to the moderators.

[for future (possibly) reference]This is my first post (#1) under this profile.[/for future (possibly) reference]

[echo]

Look at that Doc, you woke up the sleepers! I haven't seen some of these guys post in a while!!!

I got this game years ago. My first post was that of an angry cocky female, as I am.

I got a few "RTFM" and I would. I also got assisted from some of the best, incluing Derek when we found out my Gateway was junk.

You roll with it. We all have our opinions and at times heated discussions. These guys are great! I wouldn't still be posting or trying to play this game otherwise.

[LostInSpace]

quote:

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Originally posted by echo:

we found out my Gateway was junk.

---

Jeez, I could have told you that just by you mentioning the name Gateway. My sister has two of 'em both with ME. Now talk about a Gateway to hell. If I was into S&M, I'd buy a Gateway.

All those ready built companies like Gateway and Dell talk a good talk and spin a good spin but god only knows what the quality of the components

they put into their computers. Like I always tell everyone, put together your own system. You won't regret it. I've built my own for years and other than the OS you have control over the quality of the products you put into your system's case just by checking out reviews of the components from various web sites.

Even with the out of the box BCMG, I've never ran into any trouble at all other than having to disable my second display detect in the win98 hardware profile. 95% of all my windows games run with little or not trouble at all the other 5% are DOS but even then it's only the speed of the CPU and not having the old video card VESA that makes most of them unplayable (even with a CPU slow down utility).

[Cruis.In]

wow looking at a message posted almost 3 years ago by me. i actually remember writing too.